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Post by Sam & Brady on Nov 26, 2013 11:29:04 GMT -7
My dog's name is Brady. He is a beagle mix and is approximately 9 years old. He was adopted 5 years ago. He weighs 41 lbs. He has been dealing with IVDD since September 20 when he had his first episode of pain. The doctor took X-rays and showed mineralization between discs in his neck.
He started taking medications after visiting the vet and soon returned to normal. After going back two weeks later to take x-rays he had more spasms in his neck. However with just medication and limited movement he returned to a good state. However, I did not discover Dodgerslist and had the expectation that 2-3 weeks of keeping it low-key with him would be enough. We continued with bad habits (jumping on/off furniture, sleeping in bed and jumping off the bed, too long walks) once he seemed fully recovered not understanding the nature and severity of his disease.
He had a relapse on November 3 of some spasms in his neck. We put him back on the meds and NSAID for the week and his condition improved. Again, and very stupidly, he began normal lifestyle again until the weekend of November 10 when he really took a turn for the worse and could barely walk.
It was finally at that point that we did our research about IVDD and understood the severity of the situation. We were told by his vet that he was right at the cusp of surgery.
This is when we started strict crate rest using the healing pen from this website. We have a firm mattress for him in a pen lined with fleece. He has had complete bowel control and has not had any accidents in his pen since we started. He has a full and voracious appetite (he is a beagle after all). Bowel movements are normal color and texture. He shown steady improvements over the past 2 and a half weeks. This spasms in his neck have decreased in severity and length. He has not had any spasms for almost 96 hours and any spasming in the past week has been from him walking slowly inside and out to go to the bathroom.
We started acupuncture at home a week ago. He responded very well to to it and has a second visit today, actually.
Right now, he is on the following medications:
Vetprofen (Carprofen) 75 m - 1/2 tablet twice per day with food (approx 8am and 6pm)
Methocarbamol 500 mg - 1 tablet three times per day (8am, 4pm, 12am)
Tramadol 50 mg - 1 1/2 tablets four times per day (6am, 12pm, 6pm, 12am)
Soloxine (for thyroid condition) - .8 mgtab 1/2 tablet twice per day (8am and 6pm)
His only movement at all at this point is to go outside. We live in an elevator building in New York. I have been really nervous about carrying him even though I see that this is advised on the site. We walk him slowly to pee and poop outside and walk him back in immediately (usually with treats so that he doesn't sniff around). He then goes right back into the pen. Controlling him has been harder recently because he wants to run and walk around and be a normal dog. Obviously I know now that he can't do this and will go the full 8 weeks if not more before letting him start to resume a normal and controlled life.
I have a much better understanding now than 2 months ago and his improvement has given me reason to believe that he is headed in the right direction and will not need surgery. I am scared about overmedicated and any side effects that the medication may cause. And of course, I 'm absolutely terrified of continued setbacks. At this point, I just don't want to make any more mistakes and if I can correct anything that I have done or make improvements, I will happily do so. Please advise and thank you for this amazing site and the work you do.
Sam
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 26, 2013 11:45:38 GMT -7
Hi Sam, my name is Maureen. Welcome to Dodgers List. I am sorry that Brady is having an IVDD episode, but I am glad that you found us. Learning all about IVDD is going to be your best defense against this disease - what happened before is over and done, not all Vets know about IVDD and often don't know to recommend 8 weeks of strict cage rest. So forward from here we go! 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help Brady -- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. So we will use 11/10 as the day you have started STRICT rest. The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. -- Is there still currently any signs of pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- Pepcid AC to protect the stomach should also be on board. We follow proactive vets and give our approx 13-20 lbs dogs 5mg 30 mins prior to Pred. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" -- Eating and drinking OK? ( yeah I know - BEAGLE -  ) -- Poops OK - normal color and firmness, no dark or bright red blood? In the early days of learning our dogs have IVDD, everyone needs a shoulder to lean on while getting things figured out, dealing with emotions, getting up to speed on meds, what disc disease is, etc. Your job in the coming days is to become a reader so you become the confident leader of the health care team.... to discuss confidently various issues from medications to recognizing if suggestions of activity would be harmful to the healing disc. All that takes being a reader. Start on our main website with "Overview: the essentials" yellow button it will give you the degree of understanding you need right away…. as time permits continue to read all the orange buttons and the blue button "Disc Disease 101 core readings" to complete your education. Here is the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmLift and carry video - I don't know if you are able to carry him... Here is some information on neck discs - they can be harder to deal with - maybe you will find some helpful tips here. Cervical discs www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm Controlling him outside is a challenge that we all face - using that push in the ground garden egde fencing to creat a 6 foot in diameter potty place has worked wonders for many members, as does keeping them on a harness. We are here to help in any way that we can - we have all been through this - many more that once - please keep us posted |
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Post by Sam & Brady on Nov 26, 2013 13:17:17 GMT -7
-- Is there still currently any signs of pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? Right now, no [ pain]. He has been asymptomatic since 11/22 PM and has been moving well without pain. There have been some times when he looks hesitant to turn his head but doesn't appear to be in any pain and has not had any spasms in his neck. I have not tried to pick him up. -- Eating and drinking OK? ( yeah I know - BEAGLE - ) Yes, eating and drinking has been ok. We mixed wet food with his dry food which he devours. -- Poops OK - normal color and firmness, no dark or bright red blood? Poop has been ok. It might been slightly darker than normal. I will pay attention to this. |
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 26, 2013 22:42:16 GMT -7
Hi Sam! I'm so glad to hear that the medicines are controlling Brady's pain. If you see any signs of pain, don't hesitate to call your vet - off times with IVDD pain meds need to be adjusted multiple times to keep the individual dog pain free dose to dose while the anti-inflammatory works to bring down the swelling/inflammation.
The PepcidAC is something to ask your vet about asap, as it's best to protect Brady's stomach before any GI problems would show up. I'm not familiar with thyroid problems, but if this or any other health concern of Brady's would keep him from taking PepcidAC, be sure to ask your vet what stomach protector would be ok for him to take. Dogs don't speak up at the first sign of trouble, so it's best to be proactive about protecting Brady's stomach.
Is Brady's recovery suite a wire crate? If so, you can find wheels to attach to the bottom of it ("crate casters"), or if you/a friend is handy with DIY projects you can make a dolly for the crate out of a sturdy piece of wood and four caster wheels (available at walmart, etc). Some members have used red wagons to wheel their dog's crates around, although I'm not sure if a Brady-size crate would fit! But if you have some secure way to wheel his crate through the doors/elevators of your building, that might help you keep Brady safe while getting to a potty spot, and save your back from carrying him too far!
))Hugs!((
- Sabrina
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Post by Sam & Brady on Nov 27, 2013 10:36:31 GMT -7
My vet has not seemed to concern about the medication that Brady has been taking. I did ask the question about PepcidAC and she said there wasn't any harm in giving it to him when his stomach looks agitated but didn't think he would need it as part of a daily routine. Would other people who have had dogs with the tramadol/robaxin/carprofen combo recommend including PepcidAC?
Brady's recovery suite is a plastic pen (about his body length wide and 2x his body length long-ways). I did ask about limited walking just to the bathroom and back would be a problem and my vet though it would be ok and a little bit of movement can alleviate stiffness. There are times when he returns that he has minor spasms but they seem to pass within a 30 minutes. I don't mind carrying him when need be, it's not toll on me, but is the quick walk inside and out better or worse then potential aggravation in his neck from picking him up and placing him down two times to take him out?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 27, 2013 11:09:01 GMT -7
Sam it is so very easy to be enticed to allow activities harmful to Brady's healing. So we owners have come to understand that not all vets can know every disease in detail for each species (dogs, cats, reptiles, farm animals, birds) they treat. On top of that they practice many specialties in the course of a day: pediatrics, dentistry, surgery, internal medicine. So it is really our responsibility to step up into the position of our own dog's health care team...step up to being captain. Well to be in that position means we have to self educate ourselves. Dodgerlist has made that relatively easy with the treasure trove of IVDD information all in one spot on the "All things IVDD" page www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmPepcid AC use is to be proactive, not wait until you see danger signs. So if your vet said there are no health issues for Brady, I'd give it now. Yes, we have seen dog's die from Carprofen. Just google Rimadyl to see this is a med to be respected! Dogs are subjected to stress the same as humans, then place a drug that increases of changes of GI tract problems on top of Brady's stressful change in routines...what take any chances. A good place to do your homework on Pepcid AC: www.petplace.com/drug-library/famotidine-pepcid/page1.aspxMost dogs do not tolerate a plastic pen as the visibility is not as good as with wire. So if he is doing ok with it that is good. Only enough room to stand up, turn around in and why lying down he can fully stretch out his legs. "Minor" spasms for 30 mins sounds like pain... this is not right. Meds are wearing off too soon or not aggressive enough. Pain is one thing that can not be tolerated. Pain hinders the entire healing process. So if there is pain, discuss on the phone Gabapentin asap today so Brady is not in pain over the holiday. Vets are finding good success with a pain med combo of methocarbamol, tramadol AND gabapentin. The entire focus with conservative treatment is to limit movement. Movement is what disrupts the early forming scar tissue on the disc. This video explain well why no going on walks. ONLY the very, very fewest of footsteps possible at potty time. |
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Post by Sam & Brady on Nov 30, 2013 6:33:18 GMT -7
Thank you for the links Paula. Here is a question. Brady has been on a combination of methocarbamol, tramadol, and vetprofen for three weeks. The past week has been his best yet. He received acupuncture and a home visit from his vet. He did have some minor spasms only the night of the vet visit and the next morning for short amounts of time. However these are the only spasms that he has had in the week. I believe that the spasms were just due to the nature of the exam.
The medicine has done a good job to help him and being three weeks into his healing stage have him in a great state. Is there still a reason to add gabapentin into the mix at this point of the process as an added benefit? Thank you.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 30, 2013 15:30:21 GMT -7
Hi Sam! If you are still noticing any signs of pain at all, that would merit a discussion with your vet about adding gabapentin.
Like Paula said, with disc episodes it's so important to be sure that Brady has zero pain dose to dose, because pain hinders the healing process. With pain meds, when the dose/combination is right they should keep Brady from feeling any pain so that his body can work on healing.
When you get the chance, could you update us on:
- the date of the last spasm Brady had?
- is the Pepcid AC on board?
))Hugs!((
- Sabrina
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Post by Sam & Brady on Dec 6, 2013 13:01:00 GMT -7
Right now, Brady doesn't appear to be in any pain. He has completely normal behavior and appears symptom-free. The only spasms that I have seen in just about two weeks has been the night of and day after his checkup and acupuncture treatment with his vet.
I am currently giving him a half-tablet of Pepcid AC a half-hour before his twice daily vetprofen? Is this correct for a 40 lb dog (10 mg)?
We just reduced his tramadol from 1 1/2 pills to 1 pill 4x daily. He doesn't seem to be in any pain and if anything seems more energetic with less drowsiness from the medication. Would it make sense to reduce the tramadol to 3x or start to decrease the amount of Methocarbamol?
Thank you.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 6, 2013 13:16:13 GMT -7
That's very good news that Brady is pain free, Sam. At some point, your vet will decide to test the waters to see if all pain is gone, which would mean that the swelling pressing on Brady's spine is down. At that time, he will stop the Vetprofen and taper or stop the pain meds, too. Your job at that point will be to closely observe for any signs of pain. If Brady still has pain after the meds are stopped, he would have to continue on the meds for awhile longer. At this point, though, you should keep him on all meds until your vet directs otherwise. You should definitely speak to your vet about when he wants to stop the meds to test for pain since Brady has been on these meds for almost a month now. These meds have side effects and Brady shouldn't still be on them if he doesn't need them.
And yes, that would be the correct dosage of the Pepcid AC - 10 mgs every 12 hours (half an hour before the Vetprofen).
Let us know what the vet says about adjusting the meds to test for pain.
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Post by Sam & Brady on May 19, 2014 4:37:53 GMT -7
Hello Dodgerslist. I wanted to give an update and then ask a question with good news and bad news. Brady made a full-recovery. He been doing very well since December and has been a perfectly normal and happy dog. He even lost 3 pounds to help his situation and we have been doing daily long walks to enjoy the spring.
The bad news is that the vet told us to expect some flareups a few times a year and sure enough, he had one yesterday evening. It seemed to be more discomfort than the pain and shaking I witnessed six months ago. He walked slowly with his head low and seemed to be very hesitant with how he moved. I have given him two dosages of
tramadol (1 1/2 tablets of 50 mg) and one dosage of
vetprofen (75 m 1/2 tablet). He has been resting and has not moved for the past 12 hours, although this seems to be more from the medicine than any type of pain (he feels well enough to roll over onto his side and ask for belly rubs).
So all in all, I am not too worried about his condition but I would like to make sure that I do not make any mistakes in how to handle him and help get him over this flareup. I am going to place a call into his vet this morning, but I was wondering from others how long it takes for dogs to start feeling better after feeling pain. Also, is he in a current position where he can get worse and be back in the danger zone where surgery becomes a real proposition again? Thank you for any help you can provide.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 19, 2014 5:56:14 GMT -7
I'm sorry to hear that Brady may be having another disc episode. He needs to be examined ASAP and if this is indeed another disc problem, another 8 weeks of crate rest is necessary. I'm not quite sure what the vet means by "flare ups" and that there would be a few flare ups a year. Some dogs have only one disc episode their entire lives - others can have several but they may be years apart. Any time a degenerated disc tears (and with a dog with IVDD, that can happen to any disc at any time during his life), a full 8 weeks of crate rest is needed to heal the disc, anti-inflammatory is needed until all swelling is gone and pain meds are needed until the swelling is gone. Hesitancy to move is a sign of pain.
Please be sure to keep Brady strictly crated with as little movement as possible until a vet can examine him and make a diagnosis. Even though the pain he is experiencing isn't as bad as last time, any disc episode needs to be treated the same way. Too much movement and the disc can tear more with the possibility of nerve damage occurring. Be sure to let the vet know what meds have been given. If you haven't given him the meds today, it would be best not to give them so the vet can make an examination without meds masking any pain.
Please let us know what the vet says.
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