Anamaria's Franco 11/17 Conservative Chiweenie

Hi Annamaria, my name is Maureen, Welcome to Dodgers List. I am sorry that your Franco is having an IVDD epsiode, and that you are having trouble finding a Vet that will work with you. Franco sounds like a good candidate for Conservative treatment - he still has feeling and bladder control - that is great!.

100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help Franco -- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.


The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. He won't start physiotherapy ubntil after the 8 weeks are up and scar tissue has formed around the injury site.

If you could answer a few questions for us we will be better able to assist you and Franco.

-- How much does Franco weigh?

-- Is there still currently any pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy?

-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Pepcid AC to protect the stomach should also be on board. We follow proactive vets and give our approx 13-20 lbs doxies 5mg 30 mins prior to Pred. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?"

-- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk?

-- Eating and drinking OK?

-- Poops OK - normal color and firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

In the early days of learning our dogs have IVDD, everyone needs a shoulder to lean on while getting things figured out, dealing with emotions, getting up to speed on meds, what disc disease is, etc. Your job in the coming days is to become a reader so you become the confident leader of the health care team.... to discuss confidently various issues from medications to recognizing if suggestions of activity would be harmful to the healing disc. All that takes being a reader. Start on our main website with "Overview: the essentials" yellow button it will give you the degree of understanding you need right away…. as time permits continue to read all the orange buttons and the blue button "Disc Disease 101 core readings" to complete your education. Here is the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Please keep us posted on Franco's progress, We are all here to help and have all been through, or are going through IVDD with our own beloved dogs.
Keeping you both in thought and prayer (((hugs)))

Here are some links for financial help that you might find helpful, Anamaria:
www.dodgerslist.com/links/financial.htm

Be sure to check on the Pepcid AC today. Side effects from the Prednisone can cause severe GI tract problems that can worsen quickly so he needs that added protection.

All the best to you and Franco.

Thank you Marjorie & Stevie.
I got him Pepcid ac & he has been now taking it. Thank you once again.
Giving out fliers & trying to get him funded STILL is hard. I'm @$510. My work goodies sale & 2 raffles is this upcoming week. Tomorrow will be his 2nd week since his DX. He is going potty normally. I made him a towel to help him go potty outside.
The vet tech called me a couple of days ago to check on him (from the neuro surgeon).
Franco today was trying to nibble my hands as if he was telling me to let go for him to walk on his own. Smh. He has alot of strength but I am not letting him go. Just thought I'd share. He's doing a good job. When I do have to go & he is alone, I come home to him in his crate with pee, poo & now blood. He doesn't like his poo or pee so he's known to want to cover it, & he does so with his nose. HENCE where the blood is from. He already has already gone potty & I'm not gone that long for him to make such a mess. I was also told it is ok for him to move himself as long as he is not dragging himself somehow in the crate. The first crate we have is too short from him, the one we are now using he can shift himself a little, if that makes sense?
Now when he is getting low on his meds, I'm thinking he needs to go back to the vet? Or back to the surgeon ?
I feel lost.....still on a roller coaster. Other than strangers helping me raise money (& my fund raiser) I don't know how I am supposed to ready his goal for surgery?? And if I'm already @ 2 weeks after DX, do they even want him going for surgery? I'm so lost & confused. I've tried so many organizations.

I RESCUED him, & now that I need help, no ones here to help? I wrote his Facebook page on my car, I see people reading it, writing it down & such. I'm hoping to get him the surgery he needs as well as spreading the IVDD awareness. Everyone I've talked to knew nothing about it.

Thanks for the link for the organizations, I've tried many of them, I've looked at some of the ones I haven't tried, but they want me to initial the bottom because I am considering surrendering my pet? I don't wanna lie, so I don't qualify?? I rescued him, & wanna keep him where he is, but so many of these organizations don't wanna even share his page, because it'll take away the light away from their pets, don't they want my baby to keep away from a shelter??? I'm disappointed, very disappointed.

Anamarie, I feel you are feeling a pressure for surgery. There is just as good possibility that Franco CAN recover with conservative treatment. There is no guarantee with surgery just as there is no guarantee with conservative treatment about the outcome with walking. Have you read this page to understand surgery vs. conservative treatment? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm

Can you tell us specifically about the potty thing. Do you see him sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then he chooses to release some urine? That is proof we humans need to verify bladder control. Urine leaks in bedding or leading on you when lifted signals to us there is loss of bladder control. Let us know what you specifically observe when he is out to potty.

While on pred you would need to take him outside to pee every 3-4 hours to keep him from peeing in his crate because he has no other option when you have left the house. If your observations show he does not have bladder control, then he needs to be manually expressed and that would be every 2-3 hours to keep his bladder from overflowing and releasing uring due to reflexes…not a choosing to release urine.

So there is no blood in his poop, no blood in his urine. Just blood from where he has scraped his nose?

Hi, Anamaria,

I know it's hard but try not to stress about the surgery. You're doing a good job with conservative care and that is a form of treatment for this disease and dogs can improve with it.

You might do better using a long scarf as a sling. Much easier on your back! Here are some ideas for slings:
Sling for suportive walking during potty break, ace bandage, a long scarf. dodgergallery.ourdogs.net/recovery/slingwalk
Here's one you can make from an old sweatshirt www.freewebs.com/dmroster/lyonpuff.html
Kristen's figure 8 sling made from two leashes

You don't really need a rear end harness. Just a front harness to help control him.

It's difficult to stop them from rolling onto their backs. If you can encourage him not to, that would be good. It's actually a good sign that he's not in pain to be able to do that.

Try to restrict his steps as much as possible during potty time. You can use push in the ground plastic fencing to fence off a 6' section or use an ex-pen in the yard to create a potty spot for him. That will limit him from walking around too much when he sniffs and pees.

You're doing a very good job with him, Anamaria. Hugs to you and Franco.

Thanks Marj for the info. My boyfriend made him a 'harness' out of a towel, he doesn't care for it, but is happy he gets to go outside to potty. he has regained so much strength from his 3 week crate rest. another 5 more to go. We still ordered him a harness because my boyfriend feels like it will help more. Feels like the towel isn't strong enough, if that makes sense. We restrict his potty time & area because it is the apartment 'dog park' area. So he doesn't get to roam or anything. 

Sounds like Franco, is doing so well. Do you also use a regular harness AND leash as well as the rear sling (towel, long scarf, etc) when out to potty? The rear sling is not intended to control a dog, just keep the rear from tipping over and the back aligned.

From this point on collars are just to hang tags from. A harness is now used to hook the leash to. Here are the features an IVDD dog needs in a harness

You certainly can hold the rear up by the thighs…but let me tell you that would be a back killer for you. The sling (figure 8, belt, long winter scarf) is just there incase the rear end starts to tumble over. You would not use the sling so that the dog's rear is up high like a wheel barrow or under the tummy area pulled up like a fulcrum.

Most male dogs do not like anything near their penis at potty so the figure 8 works well for them.



Crate rest is normally for 8 weeks as that is how long takes for the disc to heal. Movement too early, might well tear the scar tissue that is not fully formed.

Can Franco move his back legs at all? does he wobbly walk?  It is really best to wait til Graduation day Jan 12.  Then you can best assess the direction of nerve healing. Make a decision if money is better spent on more acupuncture/laser therapy, under water treadmill or if a cart is what is needed.  On graduation day you would then start a very slow introduction back to physical activity.  If a cart was decided on by the end of the two weeks of gradual activity increase, his cart will have arrived in time to use it with strong front legs.  Here is a good article to learn the features IVDD dogs need in a cart and manufacturers: www.dodgerslist.com/links/cart.htm

Question.
Prednisone is the med that helps to get painful swelling down.  If he is going off of pred, then would he not also be going off the pain meds?  

Anamaria, the tech is incorrect in saying that the crate rest depends on Franco's progress and could be 6 or 8 weeks. It takes a full 8 weeks for the disc to heal and form enough scar tissue to protect it from further injury.

"When the dog starts to feel better, he still needs to be confined to prevent further extrusion of the disk and sudden relapse with potential for profound worsening of neurologic status. " sturgisvet.com/smallanimalclinic/managingdiskdisease.html

Sweet photo! Yes, January 12th is Franco's graduation date. It's best to get Franco right back into his crate after potty time as any time out of the crate is a dangerous time for a dog during an IVDD episode. Think of the crate as a cast for his back. It's the safest place for him.

If Franco is making a different type of sound that you're hearing as he gets near his next dose of pain meds, that does sound like he's having some discomfort when the pain meds start to wear off. Pain means that there is still swelling in the spine. Vets try a taper of the Prednisone to test for pain. Vets usually taper the pain meds, too, when they taper the Prednisone. Franco is showing discomfort even without a taper of the pain meds. Please contact your vet this morning to tell them that Franco is still showing signs of pain and needs to go back on the anti-inflammatory dose of the Prednisone. That's very important as the swelling needs to be resolved.

Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to them.

Anamaria, if there is pain and you are giving pain meds, that means you are only dealing with the smoke not the fire that is going on. The fire is the swelling in the spinal cord… it is prednisone that deal with that. Pain meds do nothing to resolve painful swelling. Pain meds just mask pain.

How do you feel about prednisone exactly?

It is not uncommon for swelling to take more than two weeks to be resolved by prednisone….some dogs have taken more like a a month before all the inflammation was gone.

Let us know what the vet prescribes and that Franco is not suffering with pain.