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Post by kalatoo on Nov 24, 2013 12:01:13 GMT -7
Hi, My name is Lisa and I am here to write about Bitsy. Bitsy is a 9lb LH Chihuahua with a little bit of terrier. She looks like a papion .. Bitsy had the IDVV back operation a week ago.. I noticed she was losing her walking with back legs and was parylized within a ten hour span and I rushed her to the emergency hospital.. the vets noticed she had zeroe feeling and after she came out of surgery they said she had zeroe feeling and would more than likely be parylized..But she did have the surgery within 24-48 hours of her parylized back legs. Here are my questions.. She went to rehab on Tuesday the girl did the lazer treatment.. How many treatments should be done for lazer theropy.. Right now Bitsy sits up fine, she sometimes holds pee the only time she does pee in crate is when she gets excited and knows shes comming out of cage. She poos normal. I am a mobile dog groomer and I have been doing the excercises they showed me to do in my van.. Here's the other question. She can stand up ok when I put the noose loops around both body and neck. I don't put them tight.. It's like she remembers she has to stand still when I groom her.. (The rehab girl said it was ok to do this for a few minutes. Today she wagged her tail while standing with these loops on.. It was a happy point. Wagging her tail one week after being told there probably would be no hope for Bitsy.. Is this a good sign??? Can I feel hopeful.. I keep saying to myself the thing to help her the most will be the water treadmill. She gets stitches off in a week.. Then I cant get her to rehab fast enough to see how she does in the water.. I have a nice big tub in my van which once they show me what to do, I can use every day. My main question is the tail wagging after a week a good sign her nerves are coming back? And what will I be seeing next as a good sign?
Thank You Lisa
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 24, 2013 18:42:41 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Lisa. Yes, by all means, the tail wagging is a very good sign indeed! That would indicate that she has deep pain sensation and the nerves are healing. Can she pass the sniff and pee test? Take her to a spot where she's peed before, let her sniff and see if she can release urine on her own. If she can do that, she has bladder control. If not, she would need to have her bladder expressed and you would need to get a hands on your hands demonstration of how to do that. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm As far as how many laser treatments should be done, that's according to your budget. Acupuncture is also helpful in giving nerves a kick start to regenerate. And yes, hydrotherapy (water therapy) can also be very helpful. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingacupuncture.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htm-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? -- What directives did the surgeon give for crate rest and for PT? I'm not sure what you mean by putting noose loops around both body and neck. Do you mean a harness and a sling? There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Hang in there. It sounds as thought Bitsy is coming along well and that you're doing a very good job in caring for her. Blessings to you both. |
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Post by kalatoo on Nov 24, 2013 19:11:43 GMT -7
Bitsy is on Gabapentin 50/Ml for pain. Today she is getting it for two times a day. and in two days we will go to one time a day for about four days then none. She is also on Metacam once a day.. She gets .25/ml for 5 days then as needed. what ever as needed means. I will probably keep giving her this once a day til I see them again.. The rehab girl said it can't hurt and our home vet said it is ok..
Bitsy is a weird doggy when it comes to bathroom time. Whith my mom she only uses puppy pads that mom has in her bedroom.. And when she is at my house she likes to go OS in the cemetary area of my condos.. I was going to take her os today to see if she would pee in her favorite spot. I couldn't do it today because here in CT it is FREEEZZZING outside.. So I've been expressing her at my house on a puppy pad where she sometimes uses them. And mom tries to express her. Today she got excited cause bitsy went for her on puppy pad supposedly when she expressed her.. I don't think she expressed her correctly becasue tonight she showed me how she did it and it was wayyyy wrong. She had her standing fully up and doing it. No way. And I told her do it right or don't do it..So bitsy probably went on her own then. I've been checking her alot for whether she needs expressing or not. She has stopped peeing on me when I open the cage.. I hope peeing comes back cause I can't keep running back and forth like this to my moms.. I will if I have to. As for crate rest he wants her in crate for 4-6 weeks.. I can put heat on her back which she loves.. And mentioned going to rehab..And we do moving leg like bike and petting legs a lot. Pretty much the girl at rehab is doing lazer and showed me some excercises to strengthen her legs. muscles. With my grooming table I have two poles and one nylon loopy thing goes around the head the other around the back waste loosely and she wears a harness then I help her to stand. This is when the tail started wagging.. The rehab girl said it was fine to do this excercise whith her just don't leave her there alone. Which I would never do.. And the excercises from rehab is to roll a towel under belly and have her stand. Another is to put on a couch pillow and wobble lightly so Bitsy has to use muscles.. All for a couple of minutes now. I notice her legs are getting stronger and she has feelings in them.. Also, today when I went to get her in the crate she wagged her tail for a few seconds.. I can't wait to get her in the water I feel it will work her so much.. I have a big tub in my mobile grooming van so I can do it on my own to.. All I can say is to bring her back has been a job. And we have been only doing it for a week.. But I work with animals all day grooming them so I make time to help out my little Itsy Bitsy is the name I call her..Thanx Lisa
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 25, 2013 14:13:07 GMT -7
Lisa, I bet either bladder control is returning or will be very soon. The only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe. See how you can set up your grooming table for an IVDD dog. Your harness is the way! Looping things around the neck, collars are off the the list now and forever for Bitsy. Sounds like Bitsy will have a good recovery with your set up and dedication to helping her learn the art of walking with your van's set up. When the stitches come out water therapy will be VERY good to aid Bitsy in moving her legs with the bouyancy of water. Metacam is one of those meds (anti-flammatories) that are well known to cause GI tract damage at any time, with or without warning symptoms.. Rather than wait til there is a problem of not eating, bleeding ulcers, we here at Dodgerslist follow the vets who ARE proactive by calling for a stomach protector. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving our approx 13-20 lbs doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID. It is good to always read up on each of our dogs medsL www.petplace.com/drug-library/famotidine-pepcid/page1.aspx |
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 2, 2013 12:41:42 GMT -7
Bitsy went to Drs today for her two week check up. The Dr. was very surprised because Bitsy has her tail wagging, nerve sensation, muscle tone and she stood up for them on the table.. Everything was so negative a couple of weeks ago I turned off their negativity and ma and I have been doing extensive rehab on her.. We still have a longgg way to go. She will be going into the water treadmill tomorrow.. And the Dr. said I can start walking her with something under the waist.. Yippeee looking good for Bitsy!!!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 2, 2013 15:32:52 GMT -7
You have done an amazing job with Bitsy, Lisa! She's proof positive that negative thinking has no place in the lives of IVDD dogs. Keep up the great work!
Prayers for continued improvements for Bitsy.
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 4, 2013 21:52:42 GMT -7
I have a question?? Please let me know if you can help me.. Bitsy's bill from hospital had an overcharge on it. This brought out the auditor in me..I started really looking at the bill. My question is would Isoflurane An anesthesia and Sevoflurane an anesthesai be used during same operation?? By researching on internet looks like it wouldn't be.. Can they be used together?
Today I brought Bitsy out with a back end harness.. She was so excited... Her tail couldn't wag fast enough.. She was sniffing the grass and just loving being outside.. Her little front legs were going so fast. I had to keep telling her to slow down. It's amazing how fast she can move with two front legs..
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 5, 2013 7:30:05 GMT -7
I'm sure Bitsy is very glad to be out and about again! Yes, it's difficult to slow them down when they're feeling so much better and want to go, go, go! It would be so much easier if you could just explain to them that they need to take it very easy for awhile yet.  I don't know a thing about anesthesia but all I could find on the net were comparisons between the two types and which worked better so it's certainly something I would question the hospital about. All the best to you and Bitsy. |
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 5, 2013 15:50:39 GMT -7
Bitsy Walked today!!!!. It shows there is hope for the dogs who get zeroe % after a surgery because of no feeling..Here's how it happened.. She went to rehab today...Two days ago the girl at rehab let Bitsy win by pulling her out of the tank after 4 minutes. Today I was determined to get her to walk. So I played the same game we played when she was in the pool last summer. I had the girl put her at one end of the tank and I was on floor calling her to come see me and she came fast running on the treadmill... Little did she know I wasn't in the water with her.. We did this for three minutes a break and then I looked at Bitsy and said come on Bitsy you can do it again all you are going to do is go back in your crate and sleep all day.. So we played the game for three more minutes.. She walked the treadmill... YIPPEEEEE!!!. The girl said she hasn't ever seen a dog do that in two weeks after surgery for so long.. Bitsy would of kept going if she could of.. So for everyone who is wondering the treadmill in water is a good thing for dogs with this disease..And she was sooo tired she slept on the ride home..
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 6, 2013 7:36:28 GMT -7
She's really come a long way in a very short time, Lisa! I'm very happy for both of you. That's very encouraging news, both for Bitsy and for others reading this forum. Just try not to rush things so she doesn't overdo it. Thanks for sharing your happy news! |
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 7, 2013 18:12:29 GMT -7
Today I took Bitsy out for the sniff and pee test.. She has her favorite spot by the cemetary.. She did pee in three spots.. My question to you is does this mean she has control of bladder.. When shes at my moms house she has not done anything on her own..Except pee all over when I walk inside. But remember at my moms she uses puppy pads and while with me likes to go outside.. She has never pee'd OS at my moms house prior to surgery.. And Bitsy's new thing is to lift both her hind legs put them stiff while she is peeing. Shes doing it for my mother and today she did it while I was using a back end harness. Is this because she doesn't want to get pee on herself or is it muscle reflexes..
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 7, 2013 20:09:31 GMT -7
If Bitsy is able to sniff and then release urine on her own, that would indicate that she has bladder control. Usually, but not always, bladder control returns before they begin walking and Bitsy can now move her legs and did walk a bit. However, she may not have complete control back yet. I would try to express her after she goes on her own to make sure she's completely emptying her bladder until you know she's urinating properly again. As for what's happening at your mom's house, that may be a behavior type issue. Did she ever do excitement pee before her surgery? Can your mom take her outside so Bitsy has consistent potty times?
My Jeremy also held his legs very stiff and straight when he first started getting movement back in his hind legs. I think the nerves are just not connecting properly quite yet.
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 8, 2013 18:58:54 GMT -7
Finally found a pic of mom and Bitsy.. This is my moms best pal in the world.
Yes Bitsy has done excitement pee before surgery. It's whenever she sees me. I am the one who possibly gives her an escape out of house to mine. She loves to go go go anywhere.. I've been the one walking her out in my mom's yard. Today I walked her all around the house. She did a lot of sniffing. She never pees outside in my mom's yard.. I don't expect her to start. And as I mentioned mom wants her to use the puppy pads at her house because it makes it easier for her (mom). She had two hip replacements and now has a bad back so training Bitsy to pee OS at her house isn't happening unless Bitsy does it on her own.. She has been barking for my mother to take her to puppy pad when she has to poo.. I guess that's a start.. Bitsy has in the past always held her pee for a long time.. But with this surgery I keep telling mom to empty bladder so infection doesn't start.. Maybe when Bitsy can be mobile on the floor again she will wallow over to puppy pad on her own to pee..
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 9, 2013 19:02:52 GMT -7
Today Bitsy went to rehab. The girl had her swimming in the water.. She did good. Tonight Bitsy barked for my mother to bring her to the puppy pad to pee on.. She didn't have to be expressed.. Maybe the swimming helped her to get her peeing feeling back.. It's the only different thing that has happened.. Whatever thank god she is starting to pee on her own...
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 10, 2013 9:22:56 GMT -7
That's wonderful news, Lisa! A very encouraging sign indeed. That will make it a lot easier on all of you and is a good sign of nerve regeneration.
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 14, 2013 17:01:16 GMT -7
Bitsy is starting to walk better with the harness. Today when I brought her inside she was sitting on the carpet and mom goes Bitsy you want a Beggin and she jumps up and takes a few steps on her own..yippeee.. Not very many but a few. I find when she isn't paying attention she walks. While OS she saw a cat and stated running normal while I had the harness on. And then we stopped and she put her back feet a part so she could stand straight.
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 18, 2013 11:34:30 GMT -7
OMG today Bitsy was walking OS on her own. She hops like a bunny.. Then I put the leash on her harness collar and she was walking normal..I didn't want her to overdue it. When I stop she sits down. My brother plowed out the backyard for a xmas party he is having and Bitsy loves it. It's her playground. She can go around in there and her paws don't get wet. When I walked her on the road she was acting like she couldn't walk. It was the wet paws she didn't like.. She still has more problems with her left leg then the right but she is starting to walk on her own without assistance. It's been 4.5 weeks since surgery..I have a call into Dr. to see how much she should be walking Outside. He said it was ok with back holster harness last I saw him. I don't think he expected this so soon for her walking.. And yes Bitsy is still on crate rest. She was not happy going back in the crate.. I told her Drs orders..Bitsy has such a zest for living. She loves playing the snowball game. I put a snowball in front of her and she pounces on it. I use to throw it in the snow and she would hop up and down in snow and pounce on snowball.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 18, 2013 13:20:29 GMT -7
Bitsy has come a long way, Lisa. I'm so glad to hear that she's doing so well. I'm glad you're checking with the vet about how much he wants her to do at this point as you don't want her to overdo it. You're doing a great job during her recovery, Lisa! |
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 18, 2013 19:01:57 GMT -7
I talked with vet and he wants her to do as much walking as she wants to do. He was shocked she is walking so much.. He said no jumping, no stairs or being around other dogs..HE mentioned no torcque. I remember that word from physics. I would say it's the angle of the back.. Tomorrow will be her last treadmill walk.. I will be walking her outside and throwing those snowballs she loves..
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 19, 2013 7:41:10 GMT -7
I would take it slowly with her, Lisa. Most surgeons recommend 6-8 weeks of crate rest following surgery, with controlled walking as PT. While walking is good exercise, I would definitely hold off on the running and chasing snowballs for a few weeks. Did you speak to the vet about running? It's best to be safe than sorry and take it easy the first couple of months. Here is our page about after crate rest. You'll see what is allowed and not allowed in #8. As you can see, pouncing and stopping suddenly is not something that an IVDD dog should ever be allowed to do. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmAnd here's how to make your home back friendly if you haven't already seen it: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmI'm glad she's doing so well. |
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 19, 2013 12:57:37 GMT -7
She doesn't run when she goes after a snowball. I plop it in front of her and she walks on it.To her it is still the snowball game because a snowball is involved. But she stands up the hole time. The vet said she can walk around on a leash that stops her from running around.. Today she walked into rehab wagging her tail..I'm going to keep having her walk around . She sits when she wants to stop..I do it for up to twenty minutes a day...No dift then going to rehab..
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Post by kalatoo on Dec 22, 2013 21:12:13 GMT -7
Bitsy is now walking around house with mom on a leash. Mom walks her to puppy pad and she is starting to poo there and when she pees she sometimes goes by herself or mom just pushes her a little and lets go and she pees on her own. I take her for 15 minute walks around outside . I also bought from Wallmart what passes as the peanut balloon rehab was using for her to stand and balance on. Much cheaper from Wallmart then what they wanted to charge me. And every time we go OS when we come back in her feet are so dirty cause of the snow and now melt down we are having on the roads.. Today I put her on the floor and she stood there for over 5 minutes. I go thanx Bitsy ya saved me putting you on the table to do the standing theorapy with you.. It's been five weeks she sees doctor in another week.. It looks like she will be able to walk into this appointment.. YIPPPEEEEEE!!!!!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 23, 2013 9:53:56 GMT -7
You've done an amazing job with Bitsy, Lisa. She's where she is today due to your love, concern and excellent care of her. Kudos to you. You have every reason to shout out a huge YIPPEEEE and we'll shout it with you! YIPPEEEEEE! All the very best to you all. |
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Post by kalatoo on Jan 1, 2014 7:51:29 GMT -7
Bitsy had her six week check up. She is free of the crate rest.. She can run OS without the leash on.. Dr says no stairs no jumping up or down. Bitsys first night out of crate.. She has a bed set up in living room and in bedroom. Ma said Bitsy barked for an hour to get on her bed. Then she went in the living room to sleep on her bed. This morning Bitsy came running ( YEH on her own) in mom's room wining cause she had to go pee. Her puppy pad is right there in the room. So ma had to get up and express her a little bit and she peed. With me she will pee no problem OS. Vet says this could be behavioral with a little nerve issue..He feels she will be peeing on her own once she realizes she can get to puppy pad on her own. And the poo was right next to the puppy pad.. So that is a start..And Bitsy got up on the bed with ma in morning. She puts her on a short leash and holds her. They've been doing this all along. In morning ma watches TV in her room. Bitsy went under the covers and fell asleep. I keep stressing DO NOT do this when you sleep at night..Bitsy must stay on floor. So the goal to get Bitsy to walk on her own has been met. The goal to get her to pee own her own with ma still working on it..She is lost without her cage. She looks up at it all the time.. She'll realize OS of cage is better for her. She can move around.I mentioned putting cage down on floor but ma doesn't want her to use cage. The vet said to get rid of it too. |
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Post by Sherry Layman on Jan 1, 2014 8:36:17 GMT -7
Lisa, this is great news about Bitsy's checkup. You will all breathe a little easier now. Sounds like you've already started a gradual return to activity. It's very important to slowly increase activity over time since she's been crated for so long and muscles become weak leading to decreased support of the back (and honestly any part of the body really) so another injury can occur. Even muscle soreness can result from those first days of freedom. Not only is the dog unable to communicate that it's only some sore muscles but we humans worry due to the symptoms being essentially the same as those of an early disc episode. Even though you've gotten a gradual start already I'll give you the link to the post crate rest page for you to look at. Some of it doesn't apply to you but you might find some of it helpful. I'm curious why the vet wants the crate gone. My crates are on the floor and if I leave the doors open it's not unusual to find one of the dogs sleeping in their crate. I crate them anytime I'm not home, which we strongly advocate here at Dodgerslist, and I'm grateful they enjoy their crates rather than view them as "that place" they have to go. I don't see the problem with putting the crate on the floor and leaving the door open giving her the option to rest in it or come out as she pleases. What would be the difference between sleeping in the crate with the door open or sleeping on the floor on a blanket? Sometimes we just have to probe our vets a little further to find out what their motives are. If you are concerned call and question it otherwise I think it's a good idea to have it around and keep her loving it. Crating a dog when you are not home is the safest option for them. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmForgot to add, I noticed you had a question about the anesthesia on your bill. Switching isn't common but if Bitsy wasn't tolerating the one they started with they could have switched during the surgery. If the bill shows time totals (often anesthesia gas is billed in time used) you could add it up for both and if the total equals the time of surgery they probably switched if it's more then you have a question about your bill. It might be beneficial to know if she had a problem tolerating one or the other in the event she ever needed surgery of any kind again. These are two very common anesthesia gases and likelihood of encountering one again is high. Even a procedure such as a dental requires anesthesia and one of these could quite possibly be used. If tolerance was an issue with one or the other ask specifically what the issue was then you could let your vet know and ask them to make a note on her chart for future reference. |
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 1, 2014 14:44:05 GMT -7
Wonderful news on Bitsy and her graduation!! I agree with Sherry…keep the recovery suite out…my dog likes his…now it is just his den incase he wants to go there by himself.
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Post by kalatoo on Jan 1, 2014 17:02:53 GMT -7
My mom lives in a little trailor and she does not want the crate in her trailor..My mom lives in a one floor trailor. Bitsy won't be able to get into any trouble yet.. When she gets stronger their might be issues. We'll worry about those if they happen. Bitsy has beeen out of her crate everyday. And for the last two weeks whe's been walking around on the floor. I've been doing having her stand on a peanut thing two which helps strengthen her. I noticed today she slowed down when she was outside. Letting her OS got rid of some of her energy.. As for the anethesia. One was used for doing the MRI and the other was used for operation is how it was explained to me.
And as for the crate Bitsy might win cause she was barking to go in it this afternoon and mom let her in it. It is sitting on the table and she likes to look out the window..
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 1, 2014 17:17:05 GMT -7
It really is a good thing that Bitsy likes being in her crate. It makes it so much easier when an IVDD dog is content during confinement as you never know when it might be necessary again in the future (though I certainly hope it won't be!). So I'm glad Bitsy won today! Graduation congratulations to you and Bitsy!! Many Bitsy have many happy, disc-free years ahead of her. |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Jan 2, 2014 8:15:34 GMT -7
Congratulations!!!
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Post by kalatoo on Jan 2, 2014 20:18:30 GMT -7
Good news today. While mom was in bathroom Bitsy went into bedroom and used her puppy pad to pee. On her own. Then she went to mom turned herself around to let mom know her bottom needed to get wiped. That's what she use to do before the operation..Whenever she pees or poos she would go to mom to get wiped..Now that's where I've been wanting Bitsy for a long time. To walk on her own and now pee on her own.. Yippeee.. Doesn't mean she will do it everytime right now but she knows where puppy pad is and she used it.. YEHHHHH!!!!! Go BITSY!!!! Next is the pooing on the puppy pad..She still poos all around but it is what she was use to doing for six weeks..
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