PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 22, 2013 11:39:53 GMT -7
reposted to the Forum on behalf of dodgerslist.boards.net/user/1409Hi Paula, I am VERY new to this board! I have a Bichon Frise dog who never showed any signs of back pain, and on August 18, a disc ruptured in his spine and we learned he has IVDD- 5 adjoining discs were heavily calcified and about to rupture. The orthopedic surgeon did emergency surgery and removed the herniated disc and fenestrated the adjoining 5 discs. In search for something to help to slow down the progression of this disease, our usual vet recently referred us to a vet at his clinic who apparently is "specialized in IVDD"... she has done 2 treatments of acupuncture, and chiropractic adjustments. Some of her other recommendations were not re: diet changes, oral B vitamins, Traumeel administration and B12 injects raised BIG red flags with our internal medicine specialist- he said that there is no scientific evidence to warrant these recommendations. Furthermore, this vet is unwilling to work with or share her medical records on my dog with our orthopedic surgeon and rehab specialist. Also raising big red flags with me and our internal medicine specialist. Are you able to recommend resources so that I can learn more about IVDD and what to expect in the coming years? Our orthopedic surgeon says that the disease is progressive, and Cosmo may have more discs that calcify but that is not to say another disc will rupture. He needs to keep a strong core, to alleviate pressure on the spine. I've also read that dogs can have cervical IVDD, thoracolumbar IVDD, or lumbosacral IVDD....if my dog has thoracolumbar IVDD, does that mean he can develop cervical or lumbosacral IVDD? What can I expect, with the progress of this disease? And, what other therapies/supplements are there that help with IVDD management? I was reading that acupuncture is good but not chiropractic? Are there any supplements or therapies that can help reduce the progress of this disease? I really am in need of a support group for this, and I found this board online. I hope you can help me with answers to my questions and provide some guidance. Thank you in advance for your help, Caroline |
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 22, 2013 11:58:21 GMT -7
Caroline, we are glad you have joined us. Clearly this new other vet does not know IVDD with use of chiro! Please read to understand just why Chiro is not recommended with IVDD dogs. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htmCosmos was born with a progressive disease that any of his other 26 discs (neck or back) could prematurely age too. Some dogs have only one disc episode while other might have multiples during their life time. This disease is just not predictiable. The way we live with the disease is to recognize the symptoms of pain, crate the dog at once in an effort to avoid surgery and get to the vet for meds. This is one disease that self education is critical so we can qualify vets that they are truly IVDD knowledgeable, know when to say "no thank you" to harmful treatments. Here is our treasure trove of all things IVDD that will answer the questions you have and information you may not yet have considered asking about: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmIf Cosmo is not currently having a disc episode then no meds, no treatments are needed. Accupuncture would be used not just for pain but to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout and hopefully bring back lost neuro functions. -- Is there currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given if any, their doses in mg's and frequencies? -- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? -- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? In other words does your dog have bladder control? -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. |
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Post by caroline on Nov 22, 2013 23:41:45 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thank you for your post. I had a meeting tonight with our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon to discuss all of this. I expressed my concerns in that since we started to see that other vet 2 weeks ago (who might I also add, is a holistic vet), Cosmo yelped during adjustments, his walking has become more wobbly and on walks he does not want to walk - he just takes a few steps and stops, the reluctance to share medical records, use of pain killing medications without explaining it to me, and the fact that some of her recommendations re: diet changes, oral B vitamins, and B12 injections are not supported by our Board Certified Internal Medicine Specialist. Our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon is also concerned. She too indicated that chiropractic treatment for IVDD dogs is not a good idea.
We are going to go back and resume therapy at the hospital where our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon works, with their rehabilitation specialist. Our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon said that she is INCREDIBLY happy with Cosmo's progress so far- given that he was paralyzed on Aug 18, and can walk and trot well, wag his tail, and is not knuckling, she is impressed. Cosmo also has full bladder control. We work every night for 10 minutes walking on the treadmill, and do core strength exercises too.
Our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon explained that this IVDD is a genetic disease. We can not stop or cure this disease - it is genetic. Now, Cosmo has thoracolumbar IVDD, but that does not mean he will develop cervical or lumbosacral IVDD. It's possible he may, but he may not. What she has recommended is that in about a year, we do an x-ray and we see what is happening in his spine - if more discs have calcified or if nothing has changed. And then we can re-assess, and decide where to go from there.
We have an appointment with the rehab specialist at the hospital on Tuesday, and our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon suggested that we do some laser therapy then because it sounds like what that other vet did has aggravated Cosmo's back.
Our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon said that in her experience, dogs with IVDD can go on to have full and good quality of life. I have to say that I feel incredibly blessed that Cosmo has such a wonderful team of board certified specialists who collaboratively work together to make sure that Cosmo is well cared for.
I also greatly appreciate your sharing those articles on caution re: chiropractic treatments, and your treasure trove!
Caroline
By the way, I just wanted to mention that Cosmo has always had a sensitive GI tract. Since switching him off of commercial diets to home cooked diets (http://www.completeandbalanced.com/), Cosmo's GI tract was doing well until his surgery. Cosmo had GI upsets following his emergency spinal surgery, but our Board Certified Internal Medicine Specialist felt this was due to post-operative stress.
Due to a case of chronic pancreatitis earlier this year, Cosmo has been on a turkey breast/potato diet via a Hilary's Blend formulation. The other vet said that this diet has too much starch and starchy foods are pro-inflammatory and will make his IVDD disease worse. I told our internal medicine specialist, and after researching this himself, he said that this is not true. I read through your article on nutrition..... and I think it sounds like Cosmo's diet is just fine.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 23, 2013 9:53:07 GMT -7
Caroline, what was the date of the chiro treatments? IF Cosmo is currently walking more wobby (neuro function diminishment) and does not want to walk (reluctance to move due to pain), then it really sounds like the chiro adjustment did damage to a disc or in the words of your vet "aggrevated Cosmo's back." Discs only heal one way. There are no meds to heal a disc. Forming scar tissue takes limited movement of the back and time of 8 weeks to allow secure tissue to be formed. The reason to make sure a disc has healed is to avoid a tear. Tears can cause mild damage to the spinal cord of pain some some wobbly walking. Big tears can allow disc material to escape the disc and shoot into the spinal cord canal. When this happens severe neuro function loss of paralyzed legs, loss of bladder control can happen. If Cosmos were my dog, I just would not take any chances. I would follow what we know to be true…crate your dog at once to keep the damaged disc from more severe tears. Get vet help with meds on board to help with pain of swelling. I would definatley NOT be resuming any PT until after 8 weeks of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 in all efforts to let the disc heal and avoid a surgery. So I have changed your subject line to having started conservative treatment of 100% STRICT rest 24/7 as of today. This page will give you a quick way to get up to speed on what you are dealing with now…a damaged disc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmPlease let us know the exact names of all meds, the dose in mg's and how often you give them. With the use of an anti-inflammatory to get painful swelling down, an added GI tract potential for problems on top of the normal stress issues Cosmos has, a stomach protector is highly recommended. North Carolina U. recognizes the high incidence of GI irritation in dogs with disc problems. The reasons are that pain and change in routines are stresses. Just as humans can experience ulcers when under stress, dogs can also. NCU and 11+ hospitals working with NCU prescribe a GI protectant. Dogs presented to NCU with IVDD often develop GI upset whether they are given steroid medications or not. www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/tc/clinical_services/neuro/acute_disc.htmlPhrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. As a safety measure this directory is a great way to be informed about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html |
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Post by caroline on Nov 24, 2013 1:07:40 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Dr. Duvall did her first chiropractic adjustment on Cosmo's back on Nov 12, as well as some acupuncture. Cosmo also yelped during some adjustments. For the following 24 hrs, Cosmo did not want to get out of bed... period. I called Dr. Duvall the next day and she said it was normal and he would be fine afterwards. I told our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon last night, and she cringed. It was after this that Cosmo started to look more wobbly when walking. On Nov 18, Cosmo started to just freeze after taking a few steps. I was going to rush him to emergency, but Dr. Duvall said no, she wanted to see him again on Nov 20.
Dr. Duvall did her second adjustment on Nov 20. Cosmo did not yelp this time. However, when I told her that Cosmo was looking more wobbly she said it was ok, from a chiropractic stand point, he seemed better. That is when I asked her to share the medical records with our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon and she refused. She put Cosmo on 1 tablet of Traumeel/day (no dose is given other than 1 tablet/day). I gave him the first tablet that day, but it was only after speaking to my insurance company that I learned that this was a pain killer. Cosmo also did not pass any stool for a good 48 hrs after this second adjustment - he squatted twice to poop, but nothing came out. VERY STRANGE for Cosmo. Our regular vet thought maybe the Traumeel was constipating him, so he said to give it another 24 hrs. I emailed our internal medicine specialist who sent me a big article on how bad Traumeel is, and told me to stop using it ASAP!!!
Cosmo wanted to walk today- he wanted to go to the park. We did a 40 min walk. Tonight he was less wanting to walk - we walked for a bit, then he would stop. Then he would take some more steps, and then stops. He also seems to look like he is straining when having bowel movements lately. I've not changed his diet at all.
I have an appointment booked for him with our rehab specialist on Tuesday. I think I will see if our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon will take a look at him this week- just to make sure, he is still looking ok.
As for Pepcid administration, our internal medicine specialist did recommend giving Cosmo 1/2 tablet of Pepcid/day but Cosmo's GI issues are becoming much less frequent now. So I only give him 1/2 tablet of Pepcid if he is looking nauseated, which is ok with our internal medicine specialist.
Caroline
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 24, 2013 14:06:13 GMT -7
Hi Caroline, I'm Sabrina. I'm so sorry to hear of all you have been through, but I'm so glad you found Dodger's List! With Cosmo's history of IVDD, reluctance to walk is a red flag that he could indeed be having another disc episode. Is Cosmo showing any other signs of pain, such as: holding the head in an unusual position...head held high or nose to the ground, shivering/trembling, not wanting to move much or moving gingerly, yelping, tight/tense stomach muscles, holding leg up flamingo style...not wanting to bear weight on the leg, just not their usual perky-interested-in-life self. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmIf Cosmo is show any of these signs (and some dogs are masters at hiding pain, so you have to look carefully!), I would call whoever is on call at whatever vet is giving you the best information - sounds like the Internal Specialist or the Surgeon? Like Paula said, with an IVDD dog the safest thing to do is assume a disc episode. Is Cosmo currently on any medication(s)? If so, could you tell us the dose in mg and frequency for each? ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 24, 2013 15:43:19 GMT -7
Caroline, it is apparent that Cosmo IS in pain (reluctant to move, stops to sit, wanting less to walk). It is apparent that his disc has very likely been damaged by the Chiro adjustments and is causing damage to his spinal cord (wobbly walking.) The first order of business when there is any suspicion of a disc problem is to crate at once in order to keep the disc from further tears. There is only one way for a disc to heal time and limited movement.
100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a very, very few footsteps at potty time for 8 weeks is conservative treatment. That means no going on walks at all, no physical PT, no laps, no couches, no Chiro, no baths.
Your neuro has already told you the Chiro may well have "aggrevated Cosmo's back." In plain English that means the chiro adjustment caused a tear to the weakened prematurely aged disc that is Intervertebral Disc Disease.
You now need to make your own decision:
1. Are you going to do conservative treatment and give that disc every chance to heal? At this point with slight neuro loss and pain, Cosmos CAN be a good candidate to heal and recover nicely with conservative treatment.
2. Do you choose to provide an environment where the early healing disc will not have its weak scar tissue disrupted by too much movement? That environment is a recovery suite 24/7.
3. Or are you going to take a chance, spin the roulette wheel and see if Cosmo might dodge a bullet to his healing disc. If you loose, that just means more vet bills maybe even the cost of a few thousands dollars for surgery. For Cosmo he'll endure some pretty intensive pain on the initial tear of the disc. As the disc further aggravates the nerves in the spinal cord they get inflamed. A good deal of pain. As the pressure from all the swelling happens, it kills the nerves cells and leg paralysis happens, then next comes loss of bladder control. If the spinal cord would be too severely damaged, that would be a lifetime sentence of being paralyzed for Cosmos.
To me it is a no brainer. I would have my dog in a recovery suite at once. I would not choose to gamble with my dog's spinal cord.
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Post by caroline on Nov 24, 2013 23:12:40 GMT -7
Hi there,
Sabrina, that other vet had Cosmo on Traumeel which our internal medicine specialist and our board certified orthopedic surgeon stopped.
Paula, I am not doubting your recommendations, but I don't think it is that bad....Cosmo is walking and not showing signs pain.
Here are a few videos I took today.... take a look, and let me know if you think he looks to be in pain. He doesn't seem to be to me.
Video 1: Cosmo and Jasper walking on their way home from the park. Again, Jasper is wearing the black jacket, while Cosmo is sporting the blue jacket.
Video 2: Cosmo and Jasper walking in the hallway of my condo Cosmo started in a seated position, walked, and then ended in a seated position. This one almost seemed like he had rehearsed it!
Thanks,
Caroline
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 25, 2013 11:57:34 GMT -7
Hi Caroline - your little ones are cuties for sure! My own introduction to IVDD happened this past July. On a Saturday, Charley was hesitant to walk. I didn't know about Dodger'sList then, so although I was scared it was a back problem he wasn't showing any signs of pain/wobbly walking/knuckling, so my on-call vet said it was probably a muscle strain. Well, the next morning when I woke up Charley couldn't use his back legs. So I got him into the vet who diagnosed IVDD. I got a very painful education about how bad things can get so quickly with IVDD. Charley was an absolute master at hiding pain (as many dogs are), and initially I wouldn't have known anything was wrong apart from him being unable to use his back legs. You know Cosmo best, and you reported observing two signs of a current disc episode: wobbly walking, and hesitant to walk. So, even if you are observing that you don't think "it" is that bad, the signs are pointing to "it" being a disc episode. Even with mild disc episodes, the disc(s) involved needs 8 weeks of strict 100% crate rest to form secure scar tissue to protect it. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingdisc.htm))Hugs!(( -Sabrina |
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Post by caroline on Nov 25, 2013 20:01:51 GMT -7
Hi Sabrina,
Thanks for your post. I am taking Cosmo in tomorrow to see the specialists. They will assess him. I know they want to do some laser therapy on his back tomorrow to reduce the inflammation that the chiro adjustments may have caused.
Cosmo has been wobby since his surgery- he was paralyzed before. So he is still ataxic. The stopping at times to walks early last week, we are not sure if it was due to the extreme cold- it was -30C here last week. And even with boots and coats, I don't think the cold was good for him. I have been badly hurt in 2 previous car accidents and was finding my back killing me too during that week.
I know what you are saying re: it being a disc episode again. I will have the specialists check him tomorrow, and see what they say. And I will follow their recommendations.
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Post by caroline on Nov 26, 2013 18:20:58 GMT -7
Hi there,
I took Cosmo in to be seen today.... where that other vet did the chiropractic adjustments was where Cosmo was having issues. His neck muscles were tight. The area where his thoracolumbar discs were fenestrated were fine, but the calcified disc Cosmo has at L6 was irritated. Sabrina, some of the GI issues I've seen are likely due to his back.
The specialist did laser therapy to his entire spine. I asked about 100% strict crate rest and the specialist said absolutely not! That causes muscles to atrophy and become weak- and we need strong muscles. She said to keep Cosmo is a semi-confined area with my other dog, and to keep walking him but keep walks to about 15 mins. They are also going to put Cosmo back on GABA pentol.... she wanted to just double check with our internal medicine specialist to ensure that the medication doesn't upset his GI tract. Once the specialists all chat on Thursday, they will be determining the plan to resume physiotherapy again.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 26, 2013 20:12:47 GMT -7
Caroline. if it is determined there has been damage to the disc, then the only way the disc heals is with limited movement. The concern with a damaged disc is to protect the spinal cord. If the cord also becomes severely damaged it may not come back. Muscles on the other hand even when atrophied will come back when it is safe to resume PT after crate rest has been completed.
If Cosmo is in enough pain to resume gabapenin, then ask yourself, ask the neuro why is he in pain? What is the pain from a pulled muscle or likley a redamaged disc? Pain with a disc episode is caused by the initial tear plus painful swelling in the spinal cord. From what your neuro said, I'd have to agree Cosmo IS having a disc episode, a relapse due to chiro treatment. His disc needs time to heal.
You have ultimate responsibility to learn about this disease, identify which veterinary professionals don't understand a disc episode and offer harmful advice and to hire veterianary professionals who do know disc disease.
I can tell you from watching 1000's of dogs since 2007 here at Dodgerslist that nothing good came of ignoring 100% STRICT crate rest when a disc needs to heal. Cosmos relies on you to make the right decisions on his behalf. I sincerely hope the very best for Cosmo as you follow the path of your choosing.
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Post by caroline on Nov 27, 2013 15:42:48 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
The specialist said she is considering starting the medication due to neuropathic pain from nerve roots? I don't even know what that means.....
So you are saying that there is a tear in the disc causing pressure on the spinal cord?
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 27, 2013 16:36:01 GMT -7
Here is the link to an article from the "Neuro Corner" about "Nerve Root Signature Pain": www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/rootsignature.htm-- " If the nerve roots are irritated it will cause the dog to hold up the leg as if painful and can mimic a lameness." -- "There are several things that can irritate the nerve roots and cause "root signature," but the top two are herniated/protruded intervertebral disks and tumors. If "root signature" is suspected in your dog, the two ways to proceed are either conservatively with rest and medications or to have advanced imaging performed to identify the exact cause." And here is an article about Neuropathy: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/neuropathy.pdfOften times the first sign is that "Your dog starts to lick and chew obsessively any part of its body." Is Cosmo showing any signs of obsessively licking or chewing? (If so, put on an e-collar or rolled up towel taped together and get vet help!: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdf ) ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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Post by caroline on Nov 28, 2013 1:07:48 GMT -7
Hi Sabrina,
Yes, Cosmo has been periodically lifting his hind right leg. When his disc @ T11/T12 ruptured, it hit the right side of his spinal cord- so I know he has weakness there. My understanding from the surgeon is that the disc at L6 that is calcified and irritated now, very rarely ruptures. The rehab specialist thinks that the vet who did the chiropractic adjustments on Cosmo on Nov 12 and 20, is what caused the irritation. Our rehab specialist told me to keep Cosmo rested and limit walks until she can speak to our orthopaedic surgeon in the morning, and they would call me with action plans- ie. pain meds (GABA pentin?!, etc).
Its funny you mention licking of paw- both my dogs lick their paws.... I thought it was due to grooming??! My younger dog Jasper definitely shows no spinal issues- he jumps anytime and everywhere. Seriously- when I look at Jasper's activity vs. Cosmo, you can see that Cosmo is severely limited in his activity. Jasper is just out of this world!
Cosmo, he has always licked his front paws..... but not obsessively. Just when we get home from walks and I take off their boots. I always thought it was just due to grooming. I have mentioned it to our vets/specialists, but no one thought anything of it. He only has calcified discs in his thoracolumbar spine right now.
I read the article on neuropathic pain-Cosmo definitely has NOT been licking his limbs excessively.... Thank you for the article. Will keep you posted on what the orthopaedic surgeon says in the morning!!
Caroline
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 28, 2013 7:20:45 GMT -7
Caroline, even if the disc hasn't fully ruptured, it could have very tiny tears in it. Walking, even limited walking, can cause the disc to tear even more, which may result in a full rupture. I can't stress strongly enough the importance of keeping Cosmo on 100% strict crate rest 24/7, only being carried in and out to do potty and to the vet. Over two years ago, my Jeremy was walking very slowly and stopping during our morning walk. I thought he was just tired from a trip to the beach the day before. I took him to the park that afternoon with my grandson and Jeremy definitely didn't want to walk. I thought he had possibly strained something and planned on taking him to the vet the next day. That evening, he began trembling and I took him to the ER where he was diagnosed with back pain and IVDD. He had no neurological deficits at that time. The vet told me to limit his walking (not strict crate rest). The next day I allowed him to walk around the house. By that afternoon, his hind legs were completely paralyzed and he had no deep pain sensation. He had surgery that evening. It took him 6 months before he could walk again. Then 6 months ago, Jeremy had another disc episode. I again took him to the ER where they said he had back pain. I immediately crated him where he stayed for 8 weeks. The first few days, he started to get a bit more wobbly but then the neuro diminishment stopped. After the 8 weeks of crate rest, he was weak and needed to build up his muscle again but within a few weeks, he was back to where he had been before the second episode. I believe that the crate rest prevented more damage the second time around and allowed the disc to heal naturally. I wish I had known the first time Jeremy had a back issue what I know now and had immediately crated him. I believe that if I had, he would not have become paralyzed or needed surgery. That's why I'm here as a moderator on this forum today to help educate others about IVDD. Please don't take a chance with Cosmo. Please keep him on strict crate rest with only a very few steps at potty time. Without an MRI, Cosmo's doctors cannot really see what's going on with the disc. However, the signs of pain that you're seeing (lifting his hind leg) indicate a disc injury, which can worsen with movement. Please read this article on calcified discs and in particular, this statement: "Your Veterinarian may point these calcifications out to you on your dog’s radiographs. Do not be mislead into thinking that these calcifications are the only problem area if your dog is experiencing back pain or has suffered a disc rupture. In fact, most often, the actual site of the disc rupture is NOT at one of these calcified spaces." www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CalcifiedDiscs.htmPlease let us know what the surgeon says. Blessings to you and Cosmo. |
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Post by caroline on Nov 28, 2013 23:29:03 GMT -7
By the way, Cosmo's board certified orthopaedic surgeon called today. She has put Cosmo on gabapentin and metacam for a week. She does want us to come in for rehabilitation appointments 2x/week, but only for laser therapy and neuromuscular stimulation. No exercises for now.
Hi Marjorie,
Thank you for your note. In Cosmo's case, the disc that ruptured in August was calcified. The Surgeon showed me the calcification she removed- it was the size of a dime or penny.
Can doctors see tears to the disc on an MRI?
As for the potty breaks....Cosmo how do you train the dog to only take a few steps to go to the bathroom? I find I have to let him walk to find his place before he will pee or poop....
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 29, 2013 8:35:42 GMT -7
Two very excellent therapies with a disc episode…laster and e-stim. So very pleased to hear exercises are not being permitted so the disc can have a chance to heal.
I found setting up an ex-pen (or garden edging fence) in the grass was THE solution for keeping footsteps to the minimum. That way Cosmos will not only see the limits but also have a physical barrier to know there just will not be any sniff fests going on. The fenced enclosure should be about 6 feet in diameter.
An expensive $1000+ MRI type of picture can show both hard tissue such as bone, mineralized areas. MRIs also show soft tissue very well such as discs, muscles, etc. These pictures should not be taken lightly as it requires a dog to be sedated where they no longer have control over muscles that protect the disc. MRI's are what the surgeon takes to help plan out a surgical procedure hours before doing the surgery.
Let us know that Cosmo's stomach is being protected. The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID.
What is the dose in mg's and how often are you giving his current meds?
gabapentin ?mg's; ? x a day
metacam ?mg's; ? x a day
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Post by caroline on Dec 2, 2013 1:53:02 GMT -7
Hi Everyone,
So, our Board Certified Orthopaedic Surgeon has stopped Cosmo on being on Metacam. If she feels he needs it, she will also advise, as per our board certified internal medicine specialist's recommendation, the administration of Pepcid. She said to continue on the Gabapentin(1 tablet/day) til we se her on Tuesday, and take him on CONTROLLED walks for 15 mins/walk. Cosmo seems to be walking better these days.
Our Board Certified Orthopaedic Surgeon also said NOT TO FREAK OUT about this irritation @ L6.... spinal cords end at L4 or L5 and the disc @ L6 does NOT rupture in 99.99% of dogs.
In regards to an ex-pen, I live in a condo.... I have no backyard. AND, we are expecting a MAJOR blizzard tonight/tomorrow- 20cm of snow and temperatures plummeting to -25C as a daytime high.... I have to talk to our Board Certified Orthopaedic surgeon on Tuesday about her thoughts on what to do in this weather. Cosmo has NOT been handling the cold well at all!!!!!!!!!!
Caroline
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Post by caroline on Dec 3, 2013 1:54:47 GMT -7
Wow! I thought I posted a post, but its not showing up!
We got our blizzard.... 30 cm of snow, and -25C.... Cosmo has been suffering in these conditions. Even with boots, and double coats...the winds have been gusting thought @ 80 km/hr..... BRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
Cosmo has been continually lifting his right back leg - I'm not sure if its due to his winter boots... I'll bring those in to see what our orthopaedic surgeon thinks.
Thanks.
Caroline
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Dec 3, 2013 19:57:15 GMT -7
Hi Caroline! I'm thinking of you and Cosmo - hope that all of you are safe in the winter storms you got!
))Hugs!((
- Sabrina
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Post by caroline on Dec 3, 2013 23:55:30 GMT -7
Hi there,
Well, Cosmo was examined by our Board Certified Orthopedic Surgeon today... she said Cosmo did not seem to be in pain, and I could stop giving him the gabapentin. The lifting of the right back leg she thinks is just due to neural sensation in that leg (pins and needles) from the surgery he had in August. She has given the green light for us to start physio exercises again, and treadmill work.... slow to start - 5 mins with no incline, and then we can start to challenge him again starting next week.
The weather has been very cold here... -30C with the wind chill.... and the temperatures will not let up until middle of next week. So, due to the weather, we are keeping walks short..... no more than 5 minutes.
I'm glad that our specialist was happy with Cosmo.....
Caroline |
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Post by Pauliana on Dec 4, 2013 20:08:44 GMT -7
Hi Caroline,
After stopping the Gabapentin please do keep a close eye on Cosmo since the Vet said he may be having pins and needles sensations in his leg. Those sensations are called Neuropathy and can escalate to burning pain.. Gabapentin is the drug that works very well for that condition so do keep it handy just in case. If you notice him chewing on that leg in an intent kind of way, please let your Vet know and get her permission to restart the Gabapentin.. Dogs have been known to seriously injure themselves by trying to stop the burning pain by chewing on the offending body part.
Not saying this will happen but please do keep an eye on him..Just want you to be aware of the possibility just in case... I am happy to hear Cosmo is doing so well other than the pins and needles sensation...
Thanks for keeping us updated!
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