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Post by jellysmom on Nov 10, 2013 5:55:04 GMT -7
Jelly 21 lb doxie mix
I saw vet last night, but am just now finding out about alternative therapies. They want me to take him tomorrow for MRI and sx on Tues.
I think he is in minimal pain, he is medicated.
Robaxin Q12H
Tramadol Q8 50mg
prednisone Q12 5mg
-- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? a little move the legs at all? a little or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? a little
-- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? not yet
-- Eating and drinking OK? yes
-- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? too soon to tell.
I am lucky I have friend that has long hx with doxies and another who is a vet tech ahd they do alternative therapies. Hope to start tomorrow.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 10, 2013 9:04:18 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerlist. My name is Paula what is yours? First things first , Jelly should not have ANY pain if the meds are correctly Rx for his needs. Can you tell us specifically what you observe for pain, when you see these signs such as nearing the next dose, after moving. YOur vet has room to give Roboxin more often than 2x a day. How many mg's is Jelly's current dose? Please read up on the pain meds used with an episode…you may also need to have a 3rd on board to fully manage pain. Pain article: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmEAch of these are very important neuro functions to know about:Can he still wobbly walk? Can he move his legs at all? When you do happy talk can he still wag his tail? An MRI is to rule out other disease when medicines are not working after several attempts to taper off OR to plan a surgical procedure. If Jelly can still move his legs, surgery may be premature. Please do your own homework and as Dr. Isaacs ACVIM Neurology says do not be pushed into surgery, make it based on an educated choice so that if things do not go as planned you know in your heart you made the best decision with the information you had at the time. Pros and Cons of the two treatments: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmDr. Isaacs on Surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmFor right now the first things is to get pain fully under control and make sure you are doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty with the very, very fewest of footsteps. Do everything you can to limit movement of the back. |
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 10, 2013 11:03:45 GMT -7
I have had an influx of support from friends that have gone through this without surgery, including my neighbor, who I forgot went through this. I am taking Jelly to a friend's practice, she is the lead tech, they do some alternative therapy, most notably cold laser.
I am a nurse and a former large animal technician, so I am appalled that I was told my only option was the MRI/sx to the tune of $4K-5K.
He is comfortable right now. He finally went potty for me this morning and I saw him take a few (3) full steps. He doesn't appear to be in distress as he was last night, for which I am grateful. I will keep everyone posted as to how the cold laser txt goes.
grateful to have found this site
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 10, 2013 12:19:05 GMT -7
Many of our dogs have benefitted greatly from both the laser and from accupuncture. Thank goodness you had the background to know that you have more than the "surgery or death " options spouted by some Vets. Jelly is a lucky boy!  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 10, 2013 14:31:52 GMT -7
What is your name…we are a friendly group and just go by first names… mine is Paula.
Do be aware just as no doctor knows every disease for just one species…the human one, so it goes no vet knows all the diseases for all the species and breeds they treat. That is why is behooves us to know just one disease well..the one that is most important to us…IVDD so we can protect them from dangers by the well meaning. It sounds as if your local DVM vet may not be fully comfortable in treating a disc episode if he referred you to surgery with a walking dog.
With Jelly being able to walk he is a good candidate to recover with conservative treatment. The big IF on that is being committed to the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out for a very few footsteps at potty time.
When you have a chance please let us know:
--how much Jelly weighs?
--How many mg of Robaxin (methocarbamol) you give 2x a day?
-- And that you do have his stomach protected while on Pred. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no heart of kidney issues, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid.
-- Is his pain now being fully managed dose to dose of the pain meds (Tramadol and Robaxin)?
Laser therapy is highly recommended not just for the pain relieving feature, but also to help stimulate nerve endings to self-repair. We look forward to hearing how the visit went.
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 10, 2013 19:20:20 GMT -7
I am Michele! Sorry, I should have introduced myself.  I was just thinking that I am going to send an email to that emergency service and the adjacent surgical suite that I did appreciate them not giving me really, a chance to consult my own veterinarian before I made such a huge decision. Especially after they knew my background. Today was an ok day for Jelly. He is eating and drinking and I got him outside where he pee twice for me. He is going tomorrow for the first of three days staying at the vet (a friend is there and they are not going to charge me any boarding fees!) because he is going to get lasered 2x/day for 3 days. then I will bring him home on crate rest. The poor puppy (well, he's 2...) does not understand why his friend can't play with him. That is Jasper, my one-blue-eyed red doxie. |
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 10, 2013 20:51:58 GMT -7
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 11, 2013 9:42:19 GMT -7
11/11 Jelly had a great night. To him out around 900 and he emptied his bladder. Slept all night, with me of course, he like to burrow. Got him up this morning, he went potty again before we left. He didn't poop, he saved that for the vet LOL.
Vet examined him and said he was between a 3-4, 4 being totally paralyzed. He explained that there is a possibility of a tumor, not a disc issue, but that we would treat as though he had a disc issue. If he did not get better with the laser treatment, then we would have to decide where to go from there.
Still very ataxic, but better. I am hopeful. The next couple of days will tell a lot. I do live very close to one of the best veterinary schools/facilities in the country, so I always have them to consult if need be.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 11, 2013 10:52:58 GMT -7
Hi Michele, I'm Sabrina. So wonderful to hear that Jelly had a good night! Have you found all of the Dodger's List pages on 100% Strict crate rest? They helped me so much! Conservative treatment for disc disease (IVDD) - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htmCrate Rest Recovery Process - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmClark's helpful supplies for crate rest - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmWith Jelly's crate rest, you want to be sure that he's in his crate full-time, except for just the briefest of potty times (and of course vet visits when necessary). Being in his crate is so important because the crate acts as a kind of "cast" - it's always flat, level, firm, and it will keep him safely contained so that he can't try to dart off in the blink of an eye (especially as he starts to feel better and better!). With the 8 weeks of crate rest, Jelly will develop secure scar tissue so that his disc is protected as his body continues the healing process: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingdisc.htmAll this to say, read up on all you can about the necessity of 100% Strict Crate Rest so that you can "Be diligent about crate rest, cheating on crate rest promotes damage to the disc: no chiropractic therapy, no couches, no sleeping with you, no baths, or water therapy during the 8 weeks of conservative treatment's crate rest." This page - www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm - has really excellent information about the typical order of nerve healing: There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag! 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. (Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine.) 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. I hope that the laser treatments help Jelly as his body works on healing! ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 11, 2013 14:52:50 GMT -7
I forgot-he is 500mg Robaxin.
He is wagging his tail, he can "sniff and pee" so I am hopeful I got him help early enough
He does have deep pain reflexes
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,590
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 11, 2013 17:21:17 GMT -7
Michele, can you double check the Robaxin. The tablet is 500 mg, are you saying he is taking 500mg 2x a day?
21 lb
Robaxin Q12H
Tramadol Q8 50mg
prednisone Q12 5mg
If he can move his legs at all then by necessity he would also naturally already have deep pain sensation exisiting.
So with time and you commitment to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 --8 weeks in duration, I do believe nerves will regenerate to bring back better walking function too!
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 12, 2013 20:27:35 GMT -7
They have his medicine, I'll look at it when I get him tomorrow.
11/12 Talked to the techs at the vet. They have him a crate in the treatment area so he won't be lonely. They say he is doing great. Too early to tell if the treatments are early, but he is not deteriorating. Eating, drinking and pottying. Looking forward to bringing him home tomorrow!
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 12, 2013 21:31:46 GMT -7
Thanks for the update on Jelly, Michele! We'll look forward to hearing about how he is when you bring him home tomorrow,also please let us know if there are any changes in his medications and clarify about the Robaxin dosage when you get back with his medications.
Glad Jelly hasn't gotten any worse and hopefully the Laser treatments will be of help to him..
Healing thoughts and prayers..
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 13, 2013 14:17:28 GMT -7
Before I forget, he is on 500mg Robaxin. He came home from the vet today. He is doing great!!! He can stand to pee pee, pooped for them, even tried to run off on them ;p. He hates the crate, but is dealing with it. I cannot believe that after 3 days of laser, he is walking a few step and appears to not be in any pain. He has 2 treatments for 2 weeks and then 1 treatment for 2 weeks I am just SO grateful. The other dog is jealous, he liked being the only dog for a couple of days. He wants to play, though  |
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 13, 2013 16:52:26 GMT -7
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 14, 2013 14:58:43 GMT -7
11/14 Great Day!! He is actually standing on his hind legs for short periods of time. He is such a good boy. He knows he needs to rest so he can hang out. I have the fireplace on and he loves that. his crate is next to it during the day while I am in the living room. The only problem we are having is that he is tired of being picked up. Can't help it stairs to the backyard. And up to the bedrooms. I just can't say enough about the cold laser therapy. It has sped his healing time up exponentially. I wish I could get them to use it on me!! Tried to add a photo and I can't figure out how |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 15, 2013 4:54:06 GMT -7
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 19, 2013 13:34:12 GMT -7
11/19 had to work this weekend so I haven't been able to post.
Jelly is doing FABULOUS!!!! I am utterly amazed at what the cold laser is doing. He is about 80% sound with left leg and 70% with right. He has a little wobble/waddle, but can almost stand and lift one back leg to pee. He still struggles a little with pooping because of the squat. We are able to reduce his meds a little. I worry about the steroids.
Please spread the word, if you find a vet with cold laser, it is amazing.
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Post by jellysmom on Nov 29, 2013 13:28:59 GMT -7
I have been at work. Jelly is doing so well, if you didn't know he had trouble, you wouldn't be able to tell. He has a very slight weakness in his left hind leg. It is getting more difficult to make him behave. He is getting stronger and he really hates being carried, but I am making him stay safe. I am just so grateful not to have to make a decision about the surgery. If I have to protect him forever, I will. Love my weiner dog! Just hope the other adjusts to not being able to play as rough. And I hope he never has to go through this.
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