|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 7, 2013 16:05:31 GMT -7
Maria was acting weird yesterday after bringing her in from the potty. She winced a few times and was acting like she had a fire ant on her front ankle. I looked and looked and found nothing. Each time I touched her she whimpered and as the evening progressed she would yelp if I went to pick her up . I put her in her crate. Got her to the vet this morning. He said by the description of her behavior at home and the way she was walking around the exam room he felt sure she was having another episode. She is on 10mg Prednisone twice a day for 4 days and tapering to one a day for 4 days, to half a day for the next 4 days. 25 mg of Tramadol 2 or 3 times a day for pain as needed 5mg pepcid when she takes the prednisone. She is in her very small crate where she will be completely still for the next week. She does not mind at all. I carry the crate out and she has only a few feet of smelling room. She mostly pees on command.... (I kept that little skill up from the first time she went down) The I carry her back into the house in her crate. She does not experience any pain when I do it this way. I am hoping that we see nothing but improvement by next Thursday and then she can go in her regular crate, for the next 7 weeks while the disc heals completely! This is Maria's 2nd episode. Hopefully, it won't be as bad as her first. She was completely paralyzed in her hind area back in April of 2011. She has a success story! www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory/mariarosebaze.htmI will keep you posted!
|
|
|
Post by Mary Jane&Kingking on Nov 7, 2013 17:22:57 GMT -7
I just started this journey with my King King. He is fully paralyzed. It sounds like you have experience and know what to do. That's great that you were able to catch it in time. If I had know about the walking funny I would have gotten him to the vet sooner. Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 7, 2013 17:49:05 GMT -7
Hi Mary Jane, I did not know the first time! The folks here have a way of calming the inner storm of fear..... -eileen
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Nov 7, 2013 20:24:53 GMT -7
Welcome back to Dodgerslist Eileen! Sorry to hear Maria Rose is having another disc episode but it sounds like you have everything under control. It would be a good idea to give the Tramadol 3 times a day because it has such a short half life..It doesn't really work as well at twice a day or as needed. Since you have been through all this before, I know you will be on the lookout for pain during the Prednisone taper..If there is pain, the taper should stop and let the Vet know she needs to go back to the anti inflammatory dose for a while longer.. Some dogs need it for two weeks or more to get the swelling down.. Once the taper is successful with no pain on the taper then no more meds are needed. Here is a link to our website in case you haven't been there recently. It gets updated frequently.. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm Hope Maria Rose feels better very soon.. Off to go read her success story! Thanks for sharing!
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 7, 2013 20:41:14 GMT -7
hi Pauliana, I just gave her the 3rd dose of Tramadol for the day. I do have a question. If I give her the first dose at 6:30 am then in your opinion what would be the ideal time to give her the 2nd and 3rd dose? Thanks for the link! www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Nov 7, 2013 20:49:07 GMT -7
Hi Eileen!
I gave Tyler is Tramadol 3 times a day at every 8 hours. For example 6:30am 2:30pm 10:30pm
Hope that helps!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 8, 2013 10:12:46 GMT -7
oh gosh Eileen, so sorry to hear Maria Rose is having another disc episode. With the not wanting to bear weight on front paw, it sounds like this one is a neck disc. Where did the vet feel this disc problem was.. back or neck. If it is in the neck here are the extra thing you can do to help: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmHow much does Maria Rose weigh? Let us know that giving Tramadol every 8 hours (3x/day) is fully controlling pain (no whimpers, no holding paw up. If it does not, then the link above goes over the pain meds you will need to advocate for. As Dr. Muir writes "" There is now a vast literature showing the uncontrolled pain is a major stressor, retarding healing and increasing the likelihood of infection." Other drugs used to treat pain. Gaynor JS. In Gaynor JS, Muir WW III (eds): Handbook of Veterinary Pain Management, 2nd ed—St. Louis: Mosby Elsevier, 2009, pp 10.Your vet is guessing the swelling in the spinal cord may be gone in 4 days, hence a 4 days course of Pred. Do not be dismayed if that is not the case by Thursday.
Often it may take being at the anti-inflammatory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. When the vet guesses swelling might be gone there will be a taper. The dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose your job at home would be to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for any hint of pain, advising the vet of your observations. To have a clear picture on a taper, pain meds are also stopped or backed off too.
Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on Pred, pain meds and Pepcid AC is needed.
If there is no pain on the taper then it goes to completion. Then no meds at all are needed.
Let us know that the small crate is not too small. The recovery suite should be large enough to stand up, turn around in and why lying down to fully stretch out her legs.
Your quick work to get her crated is what has kept her mild symptoms mild making her a good candidate to recover under conservative treatment. Good job, Eileen!!
|
|
|
Post by Linda Stowe on Nov 8, 2013 10:23:19 GMT -7
Eileen, I'm so sorry too that Maria Rose is having another episode. Like Paula said, you knowing the signs and getting her crated is what is helping keeping her symptoms mild. Healing and prayers for the both of you being sent.
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 8, 2013 16:15:48 GMT -7
I am thinking that the front paw thing MAY have been a fire ant. After the initial "rukus" she did not lick her paw anymore. It would be highly possible for one of those nasty things to get ya before the mound rises above the grass.
The crate probably is too small. The silly girl rolls to her back too much in the bigger one though. It scares me. She is perfectly still in the small one and it sits on the coffee table and she looks at me. Loves her crates! She can turn around in it and stand. She probably can't stretch out fully. So okay for the first week?
When I just took her out to potty she is a bit wobbly in the rear and when she went to squat she just sat down on her right side. A few minutes later she got the job done.
The pain meds seem to be doing the trick, however, I have not lifted her at all to go out. I carry her out in the small crate. I have to coax her out of it with a smidge of lunch meat.
Now about the vet. I love the guy. He saved the life of Maria last time when I did not know what we were facing. He put her on the correct meds and told me she needed full crate rest HOWEVER.... he said she needed rest for 2 full weeks. THEN I learned from Dodgerslist that it is EIGHT FULL WEEKS! So I did the EIGHT plus a few days for good measure.
I am so glad I posted. I will watch for pain at the taper. At the first sign I will call the vet and ask for an adjustment of the meds.
Thank You
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 8, 2013 16:18:04 GMT -7
Oh my goodness.... thanks for uploading her picture! She is a cutie...
Oh I don't think it is her neck. The doc did not tell me which disc he thought it was. (last time either) He watched her walk around the exam room and said her rear leg was involved, like she was pulling it up or something as she walked. He was certain by my description and the exam that it was another episode.
Maria weighs 14 pounds and should weigh 12.
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Nov 8, 2013 22:48:49 GMT -7
Eileen,
Maria Rose needs to be able to lay down comfortably in her crate with her paws out in front as well as be able to turn around.. Not too much room but enough for her comfort.
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 9, 2013 9:10:41 GMT -7
Thank you Pauliana!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 9, 2013 18:36:11 GMT -7
Eileen, we do see many of the vets using an anti-inflammatory dose of 5mg 2x a day with a disc episode rather than a higher immune suppressive dose. You might discuss with your vet why the high dose. It is always good to understand the thinking behind what your vet prescribes. We are interested in what he says.
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 10, 2013 17:52:34 GMT -7
Maria is doing very well. I begin the taper tomorrow of the prednisone. I understand that a taper is to test if the swelling/pain has subsided. I have instructions to taper the prednisone, but in your experience, how should I taper the 25 mg tramadol?
For clarification the Instructions were: 10mg Prednisone twice a day for 4 days and tapering to one a day for 4 days, to half a day for the next 4 days. 25 mg of Tramadol 3 times a day for pain 5mg pepcid when she takes the prednisone.
Thank You so much for being here!
|
|
|
Post by Mary Jane&Kingking on Nov 10, 2013 18:51:57 GMT -7
glad she is doing well and you asking questions. She is a cutie pie.
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Nov 10, 2013 21:59:59 GMT -7
Hi Eileen,
It's a good idea to ask the Vet how he wants you to taper the Tramadol to go with the Pred taper. It has to be backed off enough to be able to see if she has pain during the Prednisone taper.. If you see any hint of pain Maria Rose will need to go back to the twice a day dose of Pred and it's important to let the vet know immediately so he can call in the prescription right away.. It isn't unusual to have to taper more than once, so don't worry if it doesn't work this time.. It's only been a few days and sometimes it takes as much as two weeks to see relief from inflammation..
Keeping my fingers crossed for Maria Rose and for you..
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 11, 2013 16:19:46 GMT -7
Hi Pauliana,
So far so good. Maria did not seem to be in pain this afternoon after work. No trembles or whimpers upon going out to potty. I am being so careful not to hurt her when I pick her up though.
For clarification the Instructions were: 10 mg Prednisone twice a day for 4 days and tapering to one a day for 4 days, to half a day for the next 4 days. 25 mg of Tramadol 3 times a day for pain (1/2 of a 50 mg tab) 5 mg pepcid when she takes the prednisone.
This morning I gave Maria 5 mg prednisone, a 1/4 tablet of Tramadol and her regular pepcid. Was not sure if the taper was the whole prednisone once a day or if I should cut it in half. I chose the latter. Will give her the other half tonight and another 1/4 tab of tramadol.
I called the vet and I now understand that it should be the whole pill once a day. Will do that for the next 3 days. It is about to get really really cold here in North Texas so I will test her 'shivers' with a warm blanket from the dryer. I understand if she stops shivering then it was probably cold and not pain. Correct?
Good gracious..... this is nerve racking! And Maria is cooperating. I feel so bad for the folks who have a more complicated episode.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 11, 2013 17:30:47 GMT -7
Do let us know how the taper goes. Shivering could be due to chills. If you see shivering/trembling nearing next dose of meds or after having moved, then that is pain. Also usually there is more than one pain signs: tight tense tummy, yelping, not their normal perky self, doesn't want to move or moves very gingerly.
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 12, 2013 17:43:09 GMT -7
The taper is going well.
I gave Maria nothing this morning in the way of medication. I was a little nervous when I got home this afternoon. I took her out and she pee peed a river! Then I gave her a prednisone, 1/4 tramadol and her pepcid.
I think she is doing really good. I think we dodged a big 'ole bullet here. I think STRICT crate rest is by the far the best tool we have to help our little pups.
So..... January 2nd is graduation day. Holy smokes that seems like a such a long time away.
Thank You Thank You Thank you! -eileen
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 14, 2013 16:36:17 GMT -7
Maria continues to do well. No pain meds for two days and the taper is winding down. She is drinking an enormous amount of water and even wakes me at night to go out to pee. I'ts the prednisone. My only problem with her is that she just does not seem to understand that she should be still! She feels so well that she already wants to resume her 'rolling in the grass fest" upon feeling the sunshine. "No!"(At this point I would rather think she got in trouble than let her move too much.) She is in her crate on my living room coffee table. When I settle for the night to an evening of relaxing I stick my feet in her cage. She rests her chin on my ankle. She is a sweetie. I am even getting the 'eye' from some family members asking, "Are you sure she has to stay in there THAT long? She seems better." Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, Strict Crate Rest, YES!
|
|
|
Post by Nancy & Polly on Nov 14, 2013 17:23:07 GMT -7
Arguing with doubters is so hard, but you must stick to your guns. While you're doing it, it seems like the longest eight weeks of your life. Believe it or not, once it's over it eventually seems like it never happened. Just an unpleasant blip in life. Hang tough!
Oops! I just read back a ways, and see that youre a second timer. So you know already. I'm a second timer too. In a way, the second time seemed easier, because I wasn't quite as terrified. I knew what to expect, and what to do. The eight weeks still dragged, though. You can do it!
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 16, 2013 17:55:09 GMT -7
Maria is doing well but she is sure ready to just get out of there!
We have her on wheels and everyone moves her around to be a part of what they are doing.
Today I made some low fat time killers. Frozen broth in a bowl, and I boiled her bones in some real meat broth to give them new life. I had her family (Folks in our household) give me the t shirt they wore yesterday and I tied it in a pillow case that I used the last few nights. I tied the case so she would not 'go in it' and get stuck and panic. It seems to have helped calm her.
Maria, like all Dachshunds love to lick. Maria is trying to lick as if she were on steroids! HA!
We let her.....
By sticking any body part in her cage, be it face, arm or foot she frantically licks to her hearts content....
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 17, 2013 9:01:55 GMT -7
Eileen, thanks for sharing your "low fat time killers" all great ideas from the pillow case of worn garments to the calming idea of a comforting leg joining Rose inside her crate. You gotta take some pictures for the Gallery for everyone to see! How to: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/260/upload-photo-dog
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Nov 29, 2013 18:22:43 GMT -7
Maria is all better or so it seems on the outside. With strict crate rest last time for the full 8 weeks she had a good two years with no episodes. I figure I can't argue with that success!
She has become much more calm now that the steroids are out of her system. She is going with the flow of her new routine. Her crate rest routine that is. Her graduation day is January 2.
Thank you dodgerslist! Just knowing that you folks were there helped us so much.
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Dec 9, 2013 16:25:06 GMT -7
The last time Maria went down a few years ago I remember as we went through the process of conservative treatment I followed the posts of the folks and pups who 'came in' at about the same time as we did. Following everyone is very near heartbreaking from just the sheer volume of IVVD pups that 'go down'. However, I root them all on!
Paula I don't know how you do it! You are just as involved as you were years ago helping people calm down enough to catch a breath so they can help their pups. I see you have some new and very dedicated moderators along with some others who I recognized from last time. Thank You Thank You! Thank you ALL!
The website is so organized and easy to find the things we need.
Maria is fine. So sick of it all. She just wants to cuddle and so do I.
It is now when she feels so good that the ~STRICT~ part flashes in my head referring to Crate rest. Her disc is not hard scar tissue yet and the last thing I want to to do is hurt her when we are so so close. She's not cooked yet and the buzzer hasn't gone off! That happens January 2nd!
-eileen and Maria Rose.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Dec 9, 2013 18:37:46 GMT -7
Eileen, so glad to hear you have the principals of conservative treatment firmly under your belt!! Don't be shy to help a new member…you've been there and done it!!!
It is rewarding to be involved directly helping dogs, seeing so many able to get back to enjoying family life IS the success we look for. Some are walking at the end of 8 weeks while others may need a bit of an assist with a wheelchair until more nerve repair takes place.
We have a very fantastic group working hard to educate about disc disease whether it be on this Forum, helping to fund raise $$ so we can pay for our informational website, pay for printing free literature to pass out and pay for this ad-free Forum.
We welcome anyone is like-minded wanting to pay forward to help the dogs.
Until Maria is fully cooked, you are doing a fabulous job in maintaining that STRICT rest…Jan 2 is just around the corner!!!
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Dec 26, 2013 8:13:40 GMT -7
In 7 days Maria can snuggle!
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Dec 27, 2013 8:42:23 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by Eileen&Maria Rose on Dec 29, 2013 17:08:31 GMT -7
My question of the day is :
Even if I follow the Dodgers List Rules for healthy backs --> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm should I expect more episodes simply because she is older? Maria is now 7 years old. First episode at 4 years old. What have you folks observed with older pups. Any correlation with older age versus episodes? In 4 days Maria Rose gets SPRUNG!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Dec 29, 2013 17:53:47 GMT -7
I wish it were possible to give you an answer. I've had a dog at 1yo having a disc episode and then never another her long life. Then Clark had two months apart at age 4 and so far at age 12 nothing more, knock on wood! This is a totally unpredictable disease. We learn to live with the disease, as you well know, by being alert to signs of pain, crating and a vet visit.
|
|