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Post by jen123 on Nov 1, 2013 11:34:27 GMT -7
about a month ago I adopted a rescue dog "leah" 2 years old, papplion /chiuaua mix ,when I brought her home she was filthy, wounds on her (was told she was infested with fleas and no longer is)Her fur had been shaved and she was just a cute little mess. I brought her to vet. who put her on antibiotics for the wounds (now gone) and her fur is growing in she looks so much better! I noticed she didn't walk like the other dogs, didn't run, or climb she just wanted to be picked up. so back to the vet. they did x-ray and found a pellet(bb?) in her hip. and gave her antiflamatory meds for that. she continued to get worse now her her front paws hurt and she yelps randomly and straightens her whole leg out.so again to the vet. she had already been on 4 different meds at the same time for a 8 lb dog. now they say she has 2 bad disk. one in her back causing her back legs to be weak and a disk in her neck causing nerouthopy and pinching nerves that cause pain. so tonight im starting her on gabapentin meds. and hope this will ease some of her pain. she so much wants and tries to play with the other dogs, but ends up yelping. can someone help point me in the right direction as to how to help this sweet girl with out going broke? the vets are not giving me much info and im thinking maybe they don't see this a lot. Im really not sure how to use this forum or where to post. so I hope I did this right. as of now from what I have been reading in this list. I have her on 100% crate rest. only out to pee. she whines a lot wanting to get out. and doesn't take to a kong. any ideas how I can help her?
From Facebook posting 11/1/2013:
8 lbs
gabapentin 1/2 ml of every 12 hours,
tramadol 50 mg every 24 hrs.
predisone 5 mg once a day
rilexine 1/2 tablet every 12 hrs.
all this don't seem to be making any change though this is day 3 on all of these together.
NOV 1, 3013
I have her in a crate and the crate is on our couch, she does not like it and seems depressed, yet she don't want to walk either, she just sits there and whines, today is day 2 of 100 % crate rest. she is so sore in her left paws when I take her out to pee, and sometimes when she bends over to drink her water in the crate her leg gave out and she slipped nose first in water bowl. poor girl. her back legs are weak but better than front. I have talked to vets and brought her back about 3 times. each time she saw a different dr. each one did a little more than the last. they gave me no hope or encouragement just told me I can have test done and x-rays, cat scans, blood test ect... and tht would cost me a fortune that I don't have. I don't want to give her up cuz we love her and we know no one would want her and that she would be euthinised. we don't want that unless its inhumane to keep her alive. this is all so confusing and heartbreaking to watch. does the crate rest mean no holding her earthier? im so glad I found this page. the vet said rest she could sleep in bed on couch ect... but she was getting worse not better.. at the moment she is on as of 10/29 three days ago
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 1, 2013 12:39:55 GMT -7
Jennifer, you did great in posting on the Forum. Because she is on conservative treatment (meds and rest) I'll move her post to our "Conservative" board. I'll also add in important details you posted at FB so members here will have all the information. The 100% STRICT rest you are now doing, is finally going to give Leah a chance at healing her disc. To fully understand this disease and how treatments work, this is a wonderful page to get you up to speed quickly: Please let us know if you are seeing signs of pain (shivering, not wanting to move much, tight tense tummy, yelping) Tramadol has a very short half life of 1.7 hours…so it not likely to control serious pain unless prescribed at least every 8 hours. Your vet needs feedback if you are seeing pain. Has the Pred recently been reduced from the original at 2x a day or a high dose? The taper of this med is a test for pain and how swelling is being reduced. Pain on the taper = swelling is still there = dose needs to go back to the original dose. Here are the xtra things you can do to help with a neck disc as well as more discussion on the pain meds used: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmBookmarking Leah's thread will send you an email alert when anyone replies.  Do ask your vet in this very specific way about stomach protection while using prednisone: Is there any health reason why Leah may not take Pepcid AC (famotidine)? If there is no health reason ask for the corret dose for Leah. Give Pepcid AC 30 mins before Pred and thereafter every 12 hours. We follow the vets who are proactive in GI tract protection. Cortisteroids (Prednisone, Prednisolone, Dexamethasone, etc.) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset to the more threatening bleeding ulcers or holes in the stomach or intestine. It's good to know about each med Leah is on so you can be a good monitor: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html |
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Post by jen123 on Nov 1, 2013 13:09:49 GMT -7
Thank you so much for your help getting meget started. yes the prd was to be given 1/4 tablet at 5 mg twice a day for one week then give once a day. I will start her back to twice a day [prednisone]. I have to cut the pill myself into 1/4 pieces and always worry im not giving her right dose. she also was on mexo but had to take her off when the vet started her on .gabapentin these meds did nothing for her in the beginging as far as I can see. but I do see a difference on crate rest. shes unhappy in there. but not sliding across the floor,sliding, yelping ect... though she still favors her paws when she stands up. back legs weak and front paws/legs seem worse than back. on crate rest is it ok to take her for a walk in a dog stroller? or any ideas how to keep her busy in the crate? or is she supposed to sleep the whole 6 weeks? also when do I know to call the vet again? how long should I give as they have her on a as needed. seems to me they should be more serious about this. also does anyone know how to get help paying for everything? Im in CT. AND the vet is one of the best in the area yet has no payment plans or any kind of help.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 1, 2013 13:49:55 GMT -7
Jennifer, if you're still seeing signs of pain and are going to go back to giving her the Prednisone twice a day, you need to immediately contact your vet to let him/her know that you're doing that. You also have to let the vet know of the signs of pain that you're seeing. Tramadol is usually given every 8 hours, not every 24 hours. Talk to your vet about the signs of pain that you're seeing so they can adjust the pain meds, tell them that you've gone back to the anti-inflammatory of the pred (twice a day) since she is not ready for a taper of that and ask if there's any health reason not to add Pepcid AC. Please contact them today about those issues. It's a full 8 weeks of crate rest that is needed to heal the disc, not 6 weeks as you stated. You need to limit the movement of the spine as much as you can. She doesn't need to sleep the whole time but she does need to rest. Since she is also having problems with her neck, here are some suggestions that would be helpful: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmSometimes putting a towel over the top of the crate helps them remain calm. It gives them a den-like feeling. Here are some other tips on crate rest: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmWhile Leah is still showing signs of pain, you should only use a pet stroller for inside use and then if taken outside, it should only be used on a smooth surface. Otherwise, there is too much bouncing and movement and you can undo the healing that is taking place. Here are the guidelines for stroller use: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htmAs for financial help, no or low interest credit for veterinary costs can be obtained from Care Credit. You find out online if you qualify: www.carecredit.com/faqs.htmlOther links: www.dodgerslist.com/links/financial.htm Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to them. Prayers for healing for Leah. |
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Post by jen123 on Nov 2, 2013 19:09:19 GMT -7
Thank you, I have been strict with the crate rest. she is whining and barking a lot because she wants out. But I do notice that when she sits up in her crate or when I take her out to pee. she ends up yelping holding up her front paw/paws. poor girl. sometimes I stick my finger in the crate and rub her leg gently. I will call the vet on Monday and tell them the meds are not doing much for long. Im waiting till Monday only because I need to give the meds time to work and they told me it would take at least 3 days or more to see a difference. I Will keep you posted. And I will let the vet know what I am learning and maybe they will take this more seriously.
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 2, 2013 22:17:10 GMT -7
Jen,
As Marjorie and Paula posted Tramadol needs to be given every 8 hours, every 24 hours wouldn't do any good at all. Gabapentin should be every 8 hours, 12 hours is too long between doses. Properly spaced doses will make all the difference for Leah. She needs to be pain free from dose to dose so she can heal. Pain deters healing, this is so important. Please contact the Vet and get the dosages and frequencies adjusted.. Your Vet has an answering service, just call that number and ask to have them call you back and insist on them getting her pain under control. Neck discs especially are extremely painful. They can call in a prescription to your local pharmacy. No reason for her to suffer until Monday.. Leah needs you to be her voice!
Prayers for Leah..
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 3, 2013 4:59:10 GMT -7
Jen, the Prednisone is not a pain medication. That is given for inflammation and can take a week or two to help, sometimes even a month. Neck problems can take longer to resolve and as Paula mentioned, can be even more painful than back problems. Pain medication should have pain under control within an hour after administering. So there is absolutely no reason to give the medication three days to see if it will work.
In looking back through your messages, it would appear that this is the fifth day that Leah has been in pain. Please don't let another day go by without giving her relief.
We hope to hear today what the vet says.
Continued prayers.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 3, 2013 13:13:29 GMT -7
Jen, when pain meds are properly prescribed the pain will be under control fully and dose to dose in ONE HOUR. I think you have misunderstood which meds take time. It is the Prednisone that can take 1-2 weeks to get swelling down. Pain medications are a different story. Have absolutley no patience with pain… there is no waiting around to see if pain meds are correctly prescribed. If you are seeing the pain you reported of yelping it is your moral duty to get with a vet today, Sunday, and get the meds right.
Leah is being under medicated for pain. Gabapentin, Tramadol could be given every 8 hours. A muscle relaxer which most vets prescribe from the get go helps with a different kind of pain so often associated with a neck disc….that med is methocarbamol. Be a polite, but be a squeaky wheel just the same as you would be for yourself if you were tortured by the pain Leah is experiencing. Your vet has room to move and adjust pain meds, your job is to give that feedback so he knows what to do. If he will not help, it is time to find another vet who does know this disease and how to provide care.
From Facebook posting 11/1/2013:
8 lbs
gabapentin 1/2 ml of every 12 hours,
tramadol 50 mg every 24 hrs.
predisone 5 mg once a day showed pain; 11/1 starting ▲ 5mg 2x/day
rilexine 1/2 tablet every 12 hrs.
Let us know what the ER vet prescribes today, if you are not able to get with your regular vet on this Sunday.
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Post by jen123 on Nov 4, 2013 9:26:24 GMT -7
Ok so I called the vet this morning just Got off the phone. told the lady I needed to talk to a vet that knows about Disk Disease. she said they all do. I asked for one that's more knowledgeable about it the answer was "They all are". anyways to make a long conversation short. This is what I was told to do.
1.have her on crate rest 100% only out to use bathroom. (I already started that thanks to you guys.)
2. continue on the same meds. there is nothing more than can really give her for the pain. was told that unfortunately this can take a very long time to heal. and the only time they need to see her is if she starts knuckling over. I told them she has done that a few times. but starting today if I see her do it I need her to be seen and have her reavaluated. this is what she is to take daily for now.
Gabapentin oral suspension 30 ml. every 12 hours.
prednisone 5 mg 1/4 tablet once a day.
Tramadol 50 mg 1/4 tablet every 24 hours.
SO I Guess I keep her in the crate and give her those meds till she heals and if she knuckles over I take her in to be seen.
I feel so helpless. like nothing more I can do for her. but they are the vets. and a very reputable vet I drive a distance out of town to use them. they saved my shelties life twice when she had lyme disease and they just fixed up a very sick kitten that I rescued no one thought shed make it. but shes doing GREAT! SO I don't question them at all. all the other vets around have poor reviews and negative comments so I don't want to switch. so shes in her crate in our bay window at the moment barking at everything she sees. lol wagging her tail. hears perked. guess shes fine unless she sits up. oh when my daughter carried her outside to use bathroom today she darted away running. I know this is a Big NONO! BUT It was unexpected she never tried to run before. guess shes having a good day?
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 4, 2013 10:05:20 GMT -7
Jen, these vets may be very good vets and may have been able to help and save many dogs. But they do not have an understanding of pain management in cases of IVDD. At the dose of Tramadol they are prescribing, she may as well not be on Tramadol at all. The Gabapentin should be every 8 hours. They can also add Methocarbonol. There is no reason for her to be in pain. Having the right vet can make all the difference in her care and recovery. Have you checked out this webpage and done a search for reputable IVDD vets in your area? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htmEven if you just go for a consult to have a specialist get Leah's meds adjusted correctly and her pain under control. If you let us know where you're located, we might be able to help you find someone. It would be best if you used a harness to restrain Leah when taken out to do her business. The little rascals are known for surprising us when least expected! Not a leash on her collar - no more collars, only harnesses from now on. Blessings to you both. |
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Post by jen123 on Nov 4, 2013 13:12:16 GMT -7
Yes, I only have harnesses for the dogs to go for walks , they have collars for tags only. mostly they run free in back yard. as far as the meds go they took her off the methocarbonol because it cant be taken with the gabapentine he stressed they do not want metho in her system before I started her on the gaba... He don't want to up her doses as its not good for small dogs and can do more damage than good. I don't know (sigh) I have been thinking about things though and wonder why they want to see her if she knuckles over, why would they reavaluate her then? why don't they just do the x-rays now and make the diagnoses, are they just guessing? I remember at one point a vet said this could be caused by genetics,trauma, tumor, cancer. It would seem that they would want the dog cured. she is having a good day though. so sometimes I think shes going to be ok. other days im not sure. such an emotional rollercoaster. sadly to say I get the same treatments from my kids DR.S. anyways I live in Uncasville CT. 06382. I WILL look and see what I can find but In case you know of someone in the area. Thank you so much for guiding me through this. Help
Need IVDD Knowledgeable Vet in
Uncasville, CT area |
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Sabrina
Helpful Member 
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 4, 2013 14:44:51 GMT -7
Hi Jen, I'm Sabrina. I'm glad to hear that Leah is having a good day - does that mean you aren't seeing any signs of pain? Did the vet tell you why he would not rx Methocarbamol and Gabapentin at the same time for Leah? Does she have another health issue(s) in addition to the suspected disc episode that would make her unable to take both? It is true that there are no safe medications. There are two safety factors with drugs: One is a vet who practices safe medicine with a blood test to verify the liver and kidneys are healthy prior to starting the medications. The other is an owner who is educated on what the side effects are and monitors their dog. Here are some great resources to help you get up to speed on all of Leah's meds: Useful Resources to Help Screen for Potential Drug Interactions www.drugs.com/drug-interactions [interaction checker] reference.medscape.com/drug-interactioncheckerPubMed - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed Can be used to search for both veterinary and human drug studies veterinary-help.com/ [gives doses] www.vasg.org/alphabetical_drug_summaries.htmwww.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlwww.vasg.org/pdfs/NEWER%20OPTIONS%20FOR%20CHRONIC%20PAIN%20MANAGEMENT.pdf [doses & good info] As for x-rays: Generally speaking, X-rays are used to rule out other problems mimicking IVDD as they show bone and not soft tissue. Some institutions have the new, state- of-the-art x-ray technology not available in most general practices that can offer better disc information. Typically X-rays can be used to “suspicion” a disc problem if read and interpreted by a vet experienced in diagnosing IVDD from x-rays. MRI, myelogram, and CT’s can prove the exact location and are used by surgeons in planning surgery. So typically, for a breed prone to IVDD (doxies and many other small breeds), if Conservative Treatment is working (pain is controlled and there is no new loss of neuro function) then the diagnosis of IVDD is likely correct. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost If Leah isn't currently "knuckling", then the vet wants you to watch out for this because it would be a sign that her neuro function is diminishing. Dodger'sList has a great sign to print out and put on your fridge so that you can know what signs and symptoms to watch out for (because they'd need vet attention asap): www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdf))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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Post by jen123 on Nov 4, 2013 15:45:24 GMT -7
Thank you Sabrina, The vet wont give her the metho and gaba together. she has no other known health issue. she don't seem in much pain today. but her front legs are wobbly and if she stands to long she might yelp once then sit back down. leah does knuckle every now and then but not a lot. I must say I do see an improvement with her back legs though. I even catch her with her front down and bottom up like a playful stance. before the crateing she was very weak in the back legs and would hop or cross and have a lot of trouble with walking. the vet did an x-ray and found a pellet lodged in her hip and gave her meds to reduce swelling,in that x ray I found out they also saw a disk that wasn't right.didnt give me to much info on it. and being symptoms were getting worse they said lets try this and this is where we are today. but now it appears its the front legs that is the problem and im guessing that's from a disk in her neck. at the moment Im googling things to give her in the crate to stop her from whining and barking all night. I don't give my dogs rawhide bowns and shes board with the kong. I find having her in the bay window helps during the day and crate on couch with us at night. but she whines unless I sit next to her and stick my hand in the crate then she will calm down. once I leave she starts all over again. this must be a common problem for most. she is wagging her tail with joy again. so that's a good sign. I will look at the post for the fridge.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 4, 2013 19:20:12 GMT -7
Because this is very likely a neck disc problem, avoid all toys, all bones, rawhides, kongs which can exacerbate her bad disc. The goal is limited movement of the back and the neck.
Yelping means she is STILL in pain and that is not right at all… the goal is no pain at all. These vets at the current clinic clearly do not feel comfortable in treating a disc episode. So that means it is time to move on and hire a new vet asap to get the pain meds correctly prescribed so there is no pain.
See if you can speak with a potential vet on the phone before moving Leah for a trip to the vet. If possible find a local DMV vet and tell them why you looking to hire them.
1. Dog is still in pain (tell them your observations of pain), you are looking to hire a vet who knows pain management to get Leah fully pain free dose to dose of pain meds. YOu want to pursue conservative treatment and Leah needs to be in comfort so she can go about healing the remainder of the 8 weeks.
2. Ask them if they feel comfortable adjusting her current meds (list them for the vet) if not then move on to interviewing another vet.
One of the reasons for a consultation with a specialist could be because your DVM is not comfortable with pain meds, and you want a specialist's help. Specialists are used to treating pain and know pain meds well and the need for proper pain management. Tell them up front you need help with conservative treatment that your general vet is not comfortable in dealing with. These two are located 40-50mins away.Donna-Lee Taylor, DVM, ACVS843 State St
New Haven, CT 06511-3923 (203) 865-0878 centralpetvet.com/James Hammond, DVM, ACVIM piepermemorial.com/emergency-services/what-is-an-emergency/Phone: 860-347-VETS(8387) 730 Randolph Road
Middletown, CT 06457 Jen, you will find good inspiration and hope in reading Ruthie's journey with her 9 pound poodle/maltese mix Detour. dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/998/ruthies-detour-conservative-poodle-maltese?page=1
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Nov 4, 2013 19:23:48 GMT -7
Jen.... I also live in CT. I used to go to the Groton -ledyard vet before I moved. They are really nice there and took care of shorty with his first episode where he ended up having surgery. Not sure how knowledgable they are but they did give him the prednisone and did laser therapy before he had surgery. I currently go to the Clinton Vet in Clinton, CT . It would probably be a 45 min commute for you but I love Dr. Moore who I am currently seeing . He does acupuncture and laser therapy for shorty currently. Again not sure how much they see IVDD but he has listened to everything I have said and advocated for and has given me anything and everything I have needed to shorty this far. He agrees with the moderators on this site as far as the crate rest and has never once said he needed to be put down. Not sure if this helps at all but I know how important a good Vet can be! Good luck!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 4, 2013 19:39:40 GMT -7
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Post by jen123 on Nov 6, 2013 15:40:45 GMT -7
Ok so today leah is out of control. we took her out and she was so hyper tail wagging faster than she could handle. put her in the grass to pee she kept jumping on me until she yelped., put her back in crate she started digging at the crate door and barking, does this mean she is starting to get or feel better? is there a way I can calm her down when I take her out? also rumors of snow is on the way. how do I handle that? I don't want her to slip and hurt herself. she is really good going outside and whines or barks when she needs to. I really don't want to ruin that. ALSO IS THERE A TIME I can take her out of the crate and just let her cuddle on my lap? Its just so sad watching her sit there while the rest of the animals are playing and getting lots of attention.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 6, 2013 17:22:49 GMT -7
Hi Jen - it can be a challenge to help our dogs rest while on crate rest! Have you seen this page of strategies?: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm#EmergencyconfinementCalming aids Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. When you take her out, do you have a "potty spot" that you always go to? When my Charley was on crate rest, I made him a 6ft potty spot out of some wire push-in-the-ground garden fencing, and I couldn't believe how much that helped! Having the visual/physical barrier seemed to communicate to him that this was the only place he was going to get to sniff and potty! While Leah is on her 8wks of strict crate rest, it isn't safe for her to be on your lap. The reason is that the crate acts as a sort of "cast" - it's always firm, always level, and there is no chance of her darting out of it with no notice (like our intrepid little dogs are prone to do!). Leah's disc(s) need a full eight weeks so that they can form secure scar tissue around them to protect them. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingdisc.htm(^On this page, there is a picture of a sand - Edit: snow pile "potty spot" on a deck in winter - maybe something like that would be an option for you?) If you have a sturdy coffee table you can sit her crate on it and sit next to her - and maybe use that time to work on rewarding her for being calm (see the Emergency Crate Training page linked above for the how-to). ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 7, 2013 11:01:28 GMT -7
With winter coming, you may be able to do as I did. Set up an ex-pen on the deck in approx 6 foot diameter. The traction should be safer on the deck and you won''t need to use that ice melt stuff or little of it. Shovel some snow in the center as a potty spot. Always keep a bit of used snow to sniff when you refresh the snow section. The other alternative is to shovel out a 6 foot diameter open spot in the grass or a spot on the driveway. Do know all that urine will likely kill the grass. The wall of snow around the potty spot will be a good visible sign that sniff fests are not going to happen.  |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Nov 7, 2013 11:07:13 GMT -7
Oooh, adding on to what Paula said. We do the shovel a six foot area in the snow regularly in the winter anyway. Mimi has no desire to get cold nor will she even attempt to go anywhere. In fact, she waits until we have shoveled the snow area in the back yard and is a happy dog once we do. PS....our grass always grows back in the spring  |
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Post by jen123 on Nov 15, 2013 9:31:45 GMT -7
Today is the end of week 2 of leahs crate rest. I must say it is so tempting to give up and let her out of there and run free... but I stay strong and know this is for her own good, I have talked to the vet about Benadryl and other meds to help her sleep so she will stop whining and barking all night as we try to sleep. they said no. they also said they can not raise her tramadol 1/4 pill every 24 hrs. as this is the highest does she can go. and this should act as a sedative as well. being she is a small dog they say to much meds can do more damage . but they agree on the crate rest. I ASKED QUESTIONS. AND it seems as they do see this in dogs many times. they said every dog situation is different and that if leah don't heal by the end of 8 weeks that we will need to do scans and x-rays ect... to see what exactly is going on. then from there discuss treatments such as surgery or therapy they mentioned she may need to be seen by a neourologist specialist? so its wait and see for now. meanwhile while in crate she is board. she digs her blanket all up. knocks her food dish over, water , I gave her nylabones and she ate the thing in less than an hour. she has toys but she shreds them apart. the only thing to calm her down is to stick my head in the crate with her and let her snuggle with me. im guilty of doing it. but to old and big to be doing it lol. I keep her crate in a bay window during the day and on the couch at night with a cover over it. nothing seems to work she just gets depressed and stares at you with those begging eyes. I was wondering if I could switch her a dog pen, so she has room for her dishes, bed, and toys and maybe I could even sit in it with her to give her some company, or does this defeat the whole purpose? the crate she is in she has enough room to stand turn around and sleep. that's it. is this to small? is it ok for her to walk a little more? or like I asked would it be better to use a pen and give her little more room? on a brighter note she is awesome at barking and letting me know she has to use the bathroom outside:)
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 15, 2013 15:28:00 GMT -7
Jen, would you double check the meds list for correctness: 8 lbs gabapentin 30 ml. every 12 hours as of Nov 4 tramadol corrected: 12.5mg's 1x a day. incorrect:50 mg every 24 hrs. predisone 5 mg 1x a day as of Oct 29 rilexine [cephalexin] 1/2 tablet every 12 hrs. Did you see our supplies list and the ideas for an easy homemade bowl attachment for the crate? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmHave you looked into some of the mild calmers beside Benadryl such as ANXITANE, Composure Soft Chews. One of those in combo with a DAP disfuser work the best to help a dog relax. The diffuser should be placed on the floor where Leah is. --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/You do not need an Rx for the above calmers, but you should let your vet know…keep him in the loop of all things you give Leah. It sounds like being able to dig in her blankets that she is not in pain. If you are not seeing any signs of pain (shivering, yelping, not her normal perky self, slow to move) then it appears her pain meds are correct. In fact prednisone may be getting handle on resolving all the painful swelling. Of course until the vet calls for a taper off of prednisone, no one will know for sure. The taper is to test for pain as well as the necesarry way to go of this particular med. |
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Post by jen123 on Nov 16, 2013 7:28:31 GMT -7
SHE was doing really well. like you said, digging in blanket, less yelping. but something happened last night and she started to savor her leg again, then this morning when I took her outside she went pee and then walking back she yelped like crazy. I don't knkow where the pain is but she hlods up her leg and paw.. I cuddled with her and calmed her down, put her back in crate and she seems like its all over again. is this what you call a set back? could it be that yesterday I forgot to give her meds in the am (wasn't home) would she get pain back that fast? Im thinking about getting a stroller to walk her around room to room is this a bad idea? I live in a small ranch house and not really much room. but dragging her crate room to room is to heavy and bulky. maybe she would do better if she could walk with me in the stroller as I did chores? and is the pen a good idea or bad?? im willing to run out and get these things now. lol she may still need these when she gets better right? from what im reading she wont be able to go for walks and move around much when shes fixed up.im really trying to make this work for her I feel so bad.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 16, 2013 11:50:12 GMT -7
Hi Jen. Have you called your vet about the pain Leah is showing today? Which leg and paw does she hold up (front or back?) And is the med list from Paula's last post what Leah is currently taking? It's so important for Leah to be totally pain free dose to dose of her meds, because pain hinders the body's healing process. I know it can be difficult to find an IVDD knowledgeable vet who can help you aggressively treat Leah's pain. Are the specialists that Paula listed too far away for you to go to? Here's an article about strollers: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htmIf Leah is in a wire crate, you could also find Crate Caster wheels to put on the bottom of her crate so that you can wheel her room to room with you. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm))Hugs!(( - Sabrina |
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Post by jen123 on Dec 2, 2013 13:01:17 GMT -7
dec. 27 will be the end of leahs crate rest, what do I do then? do I just let her out of crate? do I make appointment with vet. (vet has her on as needed). I have been weaning her out of the crate by adding a pen, wich she can now come out of her crate just to lay in another dog bed and eat and drink. she is doing good with this and enjoys it more than the small crate wich she still goes in to sleep at night. every once in a while when she jumps up leaning on the crate standing on her hind legs she will yelp. or if shes out to pee on a leash shell try to run and itll hurt her. seems to be the same leg each time.her back legs are doing well. she don't walk sideways or cross her back legs anymore. they are actually starting to go one in front of the other. my concern is when I do let her out of crate the first thing she will want to do is wrestle with the other dogs.... her doing. please any advice on what I do then would be great. she is still on the same meds and is doing good with them. also I tried to post pics of leah from my fb page but it wont let me, or im doing it wrong. thanks JEN
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 2, 2013 15:17:49 GMT -7
Jen, it's essential that Leah remain in her crate 24/7, only being carried out to do potty. The crate acts as a cast for Leah's back and her movements must be limited in order for the disc to heal and scar tissue to form. Too much movement and that fragile scar tissue can tear, causing everything to go back to square one - more pain, more meds and crate rest would have to start completely over. Plus if the disc tears more, it could result in paralysis. Please remove the pen that you've added to her crate and keep her only in the crate. I know she's happier with the arrangement that you've set up for her. I'm sure she would be even happier to be free to run around as she wants. But that isn't what her back needs to heal. I know you told me that you were using a harness when she went outside. You might consider making a potty area for her so she doesn't try to run again. You can use push in the ground plastic fencing to make a 6' area or use an ex-pen in the yard. That way, she only has a small area to do her business in. She shouldn't be jumping up in her crate. You can take a piece of cardboard, punch holes in the corners and tie it with string to the inside of the crate to lower the height of the crate. It doesn't sound as though her pain is completely under control, though it appears as though she only has pain when doing something she shouldn't be doing - such as trying to run or jumping in her crate. Do you see any other signs of pain? As for after crate rest, her muscles and stamina will have to slowly be built up. If she's doing well at that point, there would be no need for a vet appointment. There is a suggested schedule for re-introduction to movement and some tips on this page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmAt this point, she needs to be kept as quiet as possible and limit her movements as much as possible. The disc is not yet healed. So please keep her crated. |
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Post by jen123 on Dec 4, 2013 10:26:17 GMT -7
Thanks, I have leah back to crate only. shes not happy but its for her own good. I Will add on a week of crate to make up for the time I let her in a pen, I still wondering alot though as how long does she remain on the meds for, whats the next step, why vet don't want to do follow ups. ect.... and I have done research and I am going to one of the best vets around the area. just notice new vets coming in and older ones leaving so I requested the vet that has been their for the longest.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,593
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 4, 2013 12:38:17 GMT -7
The principals of conservative treatment and why meds are used and for how long is not rocket science….thank goodness..this is really something we owners can learn! LOL In fact our dogs depend on our knowledge so mistakes are not made by us or by our vets. Crate rest is for the purpose of letting the disc heal. Being out of the crate can tear the delicate scar tissue trying to form. It takes 8 weeks for scar tissue to get good strength. Meds are in use as long as there is pain. There is only one way to know if all the painful swelling is gone. When the vet "thinks" this may be the case he calls for a taper of Prednisone, backs off or stops the pain meds too. Your job at home is to be very observant for any hint of pain arising. Pain = swelling = more time on meds needed (another course of meds). Neck discs can take longer to heal and there may be several attempts to taper pred before all the swelling has been found to be resolved. This page is one that can't be reviewed enough times…it paints the entire picture for you in more details than what I have summarized above: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm |
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