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Post by Pauliana on Nov 4, 2013 22:36:31 GMT -7
Hi Kari, Sorry to hear about your fall.. It's no fun slipping on ice, been there done that.. You are a good mom taking the brunt of the fall to protect Mia. As far as a sleeping crate in the bedroom that's what we have for our Tyler and it has worked out well for us. It's right by our bed and he automatically goes to it at bedtime. We had a recovery suite pen in the living room, his sleeping crate in the bedroom and yet another crate upstairs in the office. That worked out well for us and we gently carried him between crates. He often takes a nap in his recovery suite and always goes in there to pout if Neil leaves the house. LOL Sounds like she is gaining strength in her legs if she has resistance. That's a sign of nerve healing, especially the tail wag! Keep watching for other healing signs!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Nov 6, 2013 13:58:00 GMT -7
We met with the surgeon today. He was very pleased with her progress. In his words 'I was worried for her, but she's doing very well'. Said he saw some obvious movement from her right leg, however we haven't seen any tail wagging since (at least obvious tail movement). He said crate rest for another 3-4 weeks for sure. Overall, I felt very positive after the appointment.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 6, 2013 15:01:01 GMT -7
Very good, Kari! I remember my Jeremy's tail wagging was very sporadic at first. He would wag his tail, though it wasn't a smooth wag - sort of jerky - when I spoke in a happy voice but then he wouldn't do it again for weeks. The improvements to his leg movements were so very gradual that I would question whether I really saw a movement or not. I'm glad Mia had such a positive visit with the surgeon. Thanks for the update!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Nov 10, 2013 18:36:26 GMT -7
Hi everyone, Well, I wish I had more to update. Mia is doing well, but progress is slow. I am trying to remain positive. She is not yet standing on her own, but is still able to urinate on her own. We take her out 4-5x/day to pee but don't let her walk much. I didn't get more explicit instructions from the surgeon, but when should I be trying to let her stand/walk more? I still do her physio 3-4x/day, but I'm finding her legs are becoming more resistant. She seems to fight the "cycling" exercise the most. When she is out for a potty break, she still tends to "drag" her legs but she doesn't drag them to the same extent as she did in the beginning. And because we have snow on the ground, she seems to curl her toes up away from the ground - a good sign I hope? I haven't seen much of a tail wag since that last time, but she's not all that happy when she's outside for the potty breaks because of the cold. But I just moved her tail one direction and she moved it back to where she had it. It seemed to be voluntary (and a "hey, mom, leave my tail where it was!") kind of attitude. The surgeon had advised another 3-4 weeks of crate rest with a follow up to my vet, but my questions relate to how much movement I should be allowing during our potty breaks. And once she's off crate rest, how much mobility do we allow, especially if she is still not walking/standing on her own? Would we anticipate much improvement after that time? We are trying to make arrangements for Mia as we are away for Christmas. I want to ensure I have someone in place to take care of her in case her mobility is still poor, as we would usually leave her at my parents' place where the neighbour comes by 3-4x/day to let her and my parents' dog out and feed/water them. I am unsettled in my planning as I just don't know how much function she will have and want to make sure she is well looked after. I know I can't anticipate at this point, but it is difficult to lay down these plans (and difficult to find someone to help with this task). Thanks to everyone for your feedback!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 11, 2013 5:41:29 GMT -7
Kari, it does sound as though Mia is still making gradual improvements. Feeling resistance in my Jeremy's legs when doing PT was the first sign that I had that movement in his legs was returning. You should speak to the surgeon as to how much movement he wants her to be doing at this point. He knows best how extensive the surgery was. You should use a sling to support her hind end while she's out to potty and to prevent her from dragging. Nerves can sometimes take months or even years to heal. I was still seeing improvements in my Jeremy's mobility a year and a half after his surgery. Over that period of time, he would reach a plateau where I didn't see improvement for a few weeks and then he would start improving again. Here's the information on after crate rest and the gradual re-introduction to movement: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmJust take it one day at a time and tell her every day that she's getting better. Because she is!
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Nov 11, 2013 13:51:48 GMT -7
Hi Kari.. I'm kinda rushed so I haven't read the complete post here..I just wanted to say, My FurBaby STILL sleeps in her recovery crate, ON our bed, we have a King Sized bed, and we put it right between us, she seems to be happy there,,
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Nov 11, 2013 21:13:18 GMT -7
Thanks Marjorie and djaustin. Tomorrow it will have been 4 weeks since her surgery. Maybe I'm just having a "down" moment, but she isn't even standing on her back feet yet. Am I being overly optimistic to think she will walk again? I know it is early, I guess I just need some reassuring stories to keep my hopes up. Trying to stay positive
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 12, 2013 18:48:22 GMT -7
Keep the faith - you have every right to be optimistic, as she is making slow, steady progress
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Nov 14, 2013 21:49:55 GMT -7
We had a great day today. Mia definitely had a tail wag - it was steady and consistent. She wagged it while eating her food, must have made her happy. Then, tonight, I took her out for a pee and she stood on her own. Only a short amount of time, but she did it (I let the sling go completely slack and she didn't collapse as she would have before). So happy!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 15, 2013 5:24:52 GMT -7
Whoohooo! A great day indeed! Mia's nerves are on the mend! Wonderful to hear of these signs of improvement.
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Nov 24, 2013 21:46:19 GMT -7
Hi everyone! I apologize for no recent updates on Mia. Our entire family came down with illness this week. Mia has been stable. She hasn't had many changes per se but she is appearing to get stronger. She is using her back legs to push up lately. She has also shown some evidence of being able to stand on her back legs momentarily. She is off crate rest as of Dec 3 and I am growing a bit nervous as the date approaches. I don't know if she will continue to drag her legs - I assume she will and how much exercise/activity can she have in those early days? We see the vet later that week but it's not the surgeon so I'm not sure how much guidance my vet will be able to provide? We don't have any physiotherapy available locally so it will be up to be to continue that aspect of her care. Any advice is most appreciated!! Thank you.
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 24, 2013 22:06:37 GMT -7
Hi Kari, Hope you and family are feeling better! Here is a link to how to ease back into life after crate rest. We followed this to the letter when Tyler graduated crate rest. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmHow to make your home back friendly: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmWe don't allow Tyler to jump or use stairs.. He is a floor dweller and has comfy doggie beds scattered around the house. He also has his recovery suite with the door open, he goes in and out. If we have to leave to go shopping, he is crated. We also put carpet runners around the house since we have hardwood floors, so he won't slip and slide.. Hope this helps Mia..
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Dec 11, 2013 21:23:52 GMT -7
Hello everyone! Mia has been off crate rest for a week now. Took her to our local vet last Thursday - vet said that she continues to progress but it is at a very slow pace. She is starting to stand for longer periods now (maybe 5-10 sec as opposed to only a few sec before. She gets excited when she's out so I have to be careful too. I am struggling to let her do enough - paranoid that she could reinjure herself. Tough to let go of the fear. The vet (in consultation with the surgeon) said we are doing things right... I hope so.
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Post by Pauliana on Dec 11, 2013 22:22:20 GMT -7
Happy Crate rest graduation Kari and Mia!
I know just what you mean, it is tough to let go of the fear. I know I still worry about Tyler even 11 months after his surgery.. We gradually increased his walks and activity, we followed the back friendly advice in the links I gave you above.. No stairs, no jumping etc. I can say that he has a fun life now with precautions, the fear is there but I have learned to manage and cope with it..
Best wishes to you and Mia on your new normal!
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 11, 2013 23:09:13 GMT -7
Have you given water therapy in your bathtub a try? Since she can push up into a standing position, the buoyancy of the water can help her weak legs make walking motions with more ease. At home water therapy: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htm
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Dec 12, 2013 6:32:53 GMT -7
Congratulations on graduation! Here's to a pain free, fun life for both of you I get the fear, it's driving me crazy!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Jan 12, 2014 8:26:11 GMT -7
Hi everyone! I am happy to report that Mia continues to improve since graduating from crate rest. She is now able to stand on her hind legs for at least 30 seconds and does walk (albeit very wobbly) for about 5-10 seconds. She seems to have coordination with both legs (ie. you can see that she is moving both legs as she should be), but her stamina is still really poor. I had a few questions: 1. We still keep her in her play pen for most of the day and let her out to walk around about 4-6 times per day. Her general time out is about 5-10 minutes but she often collapses and just sits for a while. Should I be using the sling for the whole time that she walks or should I be encouraging her to walk on her own. She seems to do better with the sling but with both cases, she reaches her maximum and it's hard to get her to move after that. That is usually when we put her in her playpen to rest. She requires a great deal of encouragement with the sling but she also lasts shorter times on her own. 2. Our vet did not give exact times with her time in the crate now - but I am wondering if I should be letting her stay out longer, even if she is just sitting, as she seems to enjoy being part of the family activities. I always supervise her out of the play pen time. I haven't done much with the water therapy - mostly because she hates being in the water - but I think I will now. She seems to have plateaued a bit these past few days so despite great improvements over the past few weeks, I want her to continue to get stronger. We live in a wintery climate so outdoor walks are not an option. Thanks everyone for your ongoing support. I'm not on as much as I was in the early stages but I appreciate this forum to ask questions as we evolve in her care.
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Post by Pauliana on Jan 12, 2014 12:39:58 GMT -7
Hi Kari, Nice to see you around the place. : ) Yes I would use the sling until you see evidence that she is gaining more stability and stamina.. Nerves take a long time to heal and while progress is slow.. REGAINING NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION has no time limit for nerves to heal. Nerve repair is individual as each injury is different and each dog’s ability to heal is different. If deep pain perception (DPP) is present, even in paralyzed legs, there is a chance your dog may be able to walk again. For those dogs who have lost DPP, do know nerve regeneration can take place and that function may return. Once deep pain perception is regained, your dog has a chance at a walking recovery. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms. Acupuncture and Laser Therapy stimulate the cell’s metabolism that leads to the body’s natural repair abilities and can be started at any time. veterinarypage.vetmed.ufl.edu/2011/09/19/laser-treatment-helps-dogs-with-spinal-cord-injury/ www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingacupuncture.htmHere is an article about different rehab ideas: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/rehab.htmOnce nerves have repaired then muscles will also have to be retrained to relearn proper placement of the paws. Some muscles will need to regain strength for walking. Consider learning to walk again as it would be for a stroke victim or a baby learning to walk. At first, the steps will be weak and a bit unstable. Relearning to walk takes coordination, building up strength, and lots of patience.
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Jan 20, 2014 16:25:32 GMT -7
Hi Pauliana and all, thanks for the ongoing advice. We have no access to any laser therapy or pet rehab in our city. Apparently there was a rehab place but it didn't have enough business! There is one place that does acupuncture but due to finances and logistics with two young kids, we haven't been able to consider it. I tried the water/bath route at home and she hated it. Spent more time thrashing and fighting her then actually working on the steps. I will try again. I was trying to find the right temperature (not too not or cold), but I'll have to experiment. She still spends a great deal of time in her playpen and I feel bad about that. She has deep pain sensation so I am hopeful for recovery. Can I let her come out (supervised) and spend time with us? I do take her out 5-6 times per day to do a walk around our main floor. She is in the sling and seems to have just enough stamina to get through that but it's hard to tell. I'm hoping to increase her time out walking around and distance as I am currently at home on maternity leave but once I return to work, she will be in her pen all day while we are away. I am hoping to make as much headway on her strength and recovery in the next few months but I know it will be slow and hopefully steady, of which we have little control over the speed of her nerve regeneration. I am struggling to feel like we are doing enough for her. She can't do the basic instructions on the 'after crate rest' document for the most part so we are slowly working to get there. I just want to do what is best for her to help her healing and her strength returning.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 21, 2014 11:33:16 GMT -7
Kari, when you are at home I certainly would let Kari be out of her recovery suite. Do you have some rug runners placed on her normal pathways such as to the kitchen, etc. so if she moves up into a standing position she will have better traction to take some steps. Employ some sort of butt protection from rug or floor burns as she will scoot on the floor when too tired to walk. Butt protection will also keep bacteria away from entering the bladder to avoid UTI's. This program of reintroduction to any activity (scooting or walking) needs to be done incrementally as the schedule indicates. Butt protection, sew and no-sew --Tandy’s no-sew Butt Protect: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/aftercraterest/Buttprotect.htm --Clark’s Bumpad pattern: users.cyberport.net/%7Emilnerwm/bumpad1.html Nerves repair do often seem to plateau. The body is growing new nerve endings very SLOWLY and until then, nothing seems to happen until another connection is made. So let Mia enjoy her home being free to move around at times you are at home. We have seen nerve functions progressing still many months out even closer to a year. Patience is not a strong suite for humans for sure. Keep us with the daily PT of doing those sling walks no matter how short the session is… it IS beneficial!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Apr 30, 2014 20:11:19 GMT -7
Hi everyone, It's been a while and I thought I would write with an update on Mia. It's been over 6 months since Mia's surgery. She continues to improve, though admittedly, it is hard to see the finer parts of her improvements. She can now walk across our back hard unassisted but remains wobbly and sometimes stumbles. The weather has just recently changed so that it is warm enough she can spend some time outside but I am concerned about how much activity is too much for her. She seems to be a poor judge herself of what she can and can't do, and has always been this way with playtime (chasing balls etc). My husband gave her a ball to play with over the weekend and she had a great time, though we limited her time to a short interval and ensured there was no jumping. However since that time, we have noticed episodes of her dragging herself. For the most part she walks from point a to b but if she has to make a small movement in any direction, she just drags. It would almost seem that she knows that she doesn't need to do the extra work to get up using her back legs and just walks with back legs dragging because it is easier. If that makes sense? Is this something we should worry about? I've been studying her movements for a few days and that's what seems to be the pattern. She is in her crate all day during the day while we are at work so we do try to give her some activity when we get home to help build her back leg strength. And how much is too much activity? I try to be very aware of short intervals and not allow her to over do it but sometimes it's hard to tell where the line between enough and too much is. She also tries to run sometimes and although wobbly, should we allow her to do it? I'm just wondering about boundaries on activity while she is getting stronger. The good news is that , while very slow, she is improving Thanks in advance for your advice!
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on May 1, 2014 4:43:27 GMT -7
I found with my Jeremy that he used the quickest way to get someplace and it didn't matter to him whether he was up on his feet or pulling them behind him - he'd get there either way! I'd often help him to his feet so he would learn how to place his feet better. At this point, six months following surgery, Mia would have built up her strength enough that she should only now have the usual restrictions for an IVDD dog. If she wants to try to move faster, she can try. Here's our page showing at the bottom a list of back friendly activities and never again activities: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmAnd if you haven't seen it yet, here's our page on making your home back friendly: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmAre you doing any physical therapy for Mia? I found these exercises very helpful in Jeremy's recovery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmYou might consider getting Mia a cart to give her more mobility. Also, a cart can be used as a therapy. Place the feet just so they touch the ground and it may help her learn to place them correctly as the cart gives her the support she still needs. Here are the features you should look for. My Jeremy used a cart for awhile and then gradually left it behind. www.dodgerslist.com/links/cart.htmNerve damage healing can be very slow but Mia has made good progress in six months. Jeremy continued to improve in his walking for over a year following surgery. So hang in there. Thanks for the update and please continue to keep in touch. We love hearing about Mia's progress!
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