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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 23, 2013 20:38:46 GMT -7
Hi there, I am trying to gather more information in preparation for my dog's return home. With answers to these questions we will be better able to help you.
-- What is your dog's name? Mia
-- How much does your dog weigh? 14.5 lbs
--What breed is your dog and did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD? Mini dachshund and YES
-- What was the date you saw the vet and started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? She was seen at the emergency vet clinic on the evening of Oct 14th. Her symptoms started late on the evening of the 13th however, dragging of her back legs started late afternoon on the 14th. By the morning of the 15th, she had lost deep pain sensation. She was immoblized from mid day on the 14th until her surgery on the 15th.
--Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? No. However, I am going on the reports of the vet as I have not yet seen her. They tell me she is comfortable, quiet and eating/drinking normally.
-- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? I don't have that information yet.
-- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? No movement in the back legs or tail. We were told that she had a small amount of deep pain sensation on Oct 19th and definitely had some on the 20th. However the vet we spoke with today did not see any deep pain sensation today on her exam. He did a CT scan today to confirm there was not re-injury. As of now, I have not heard back but was told he would only call IF there was a problem.
We were also told that she had some spontaneous urination on the 20th, but as with her deep pain sensation, we have had nothing since.
-- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Don't know.
-- Eating and drinking OK? Yes.
-- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? No reports of this.
I am trying to prepare myself and my family for her discharge which I am told may be 2-3 days away. I have two small children and am petrified of her having an injury as a result of my overeager 2.5 year old. So I am trying to prepare as much as I can before she comes home. The vet clinic has not said much in the way of what to expect. I am home during the days which is good as I can be there for her, but I do worry about how she will react to crate rest when we are home and moving about.
Some of my questions if possible: 1. Should I crate her in a different room than where we are generally or just find a space that is blocked off from my toddler where she can still hear us? She is also blind so sight lines are not an issue but I don't want to isolate her from everything. 2. Is it normal to see some pain sensation and then it disappear? I am wondering if she even had it over the weekend and if we had all kinds of happiness for nothing? 3. The weather is getting colder where I live and I am concerned once the snow arrives that expressing her bladder could be problematic. Any suggestions?
Any other suggestions for me? I am so scared for her but so happy to have her home again.
I should also mention that Mia is blind... she is only 6 years old! So adaption around the house, including ramps etc. will be difficult but we are willing to do whatever it takes to keep our Mia.
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 23, 2013 21:13:41 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist,Kari! Please let Mia know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmIt takes 2-4 weeks for the swelling to resolve after surgery. Improvements often happen after that timeframe. Don't be discouraged, it's still very, very early in her recovery. Answers about IVDD Surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm Dr Isaacs' says: "I also advise that at 2-4 weeks we are not seeing the end result of the healing process - this typically does not occur for 6-12 months and in some cases even longer." Nerve regeneration: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm"Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms". Here is a list of discharge questions to ask your Vet when you pick up Mia. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmExpressing in the snow would be very cold, but it can be done over a toilet and just takes a few seconds once you get the hang of it. It's a new skill and takes some practice. Please read this link and watch the video. The info and video should be helpful and give you great tips before your lesson at the clinic. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmHere is some info on setting up your crate or what we like to call a Recovery Suite. It is usually best to keep the crate where the family is. However it is a very good idea to protect her from your sweet and active toddler as Mia needs to be protected from being injured. She will need to be crated for 6 weeks for proper healing and only taken out to be expressed or out to potty if she gets bladder and bowel control back.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmHere is a video that shows how to pick up and carry Mia: Add this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD; plus don't forget to order one DVD for your vet www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm Sending healing prayers for Mia and comforting thoughts for you and your family!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 23, 2013 21:37:16 GMT -7
Bless you, Pauliana. Thank you for this. I will be sure to review in the morning and I will be online more as I learn more - I need all the help I can get. Thank you again!! Kari
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 24, 2013 10:36:34 GMT -7
Hi Kari, my name is Maureen. My Stevie is blind too, and she figured out the ramps that my husband built, just fine. He just put a little railing along the sides so that she wouldn't tumble off of the edge by accident, or by trying to take a shortcut to the floor or the ground. Keep us posted on your sweet Mia
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 24, 2013 11:32:04 GMT -7
Maureen - thank you soooo much, it makes me feel much better to know that someone else's dog has been able to endure the blindness and still have success! UPDATE ON MIA - spoke with the vet today. In his words, we are still in a "grey" area but he thinks that she has more happening than we originally thought. He think she might have a small amount of voluntary movement when he takes her out for her walk and the tech working with her for the past two days believes she has some conscious awareness of when she is peeing. CT scan was clear yesterday ie. no re-injury. He says that he doesn't think they are doing anything more for her than we could do for her at home so we will be able to pick her up later today. I'm am madly scrambling to get things together for her return home. I'll update more again once she is home. I'm just so excited to see her and love her again
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 24, 2013 20:23:24 GMT -7
More information... Mia is home. Seems comfortable however her ride home is her crate was very upsetting for her. I think she just wanted to be near us. We were planning to set up an wire pen around her bed as is suggested but wanted to set up something for our main room (where we are most of the day) and something upstairs in our bedroom as she is used to sleeping with us in our bed. I had thought a playpen as we have a smaller one (measures 2 ft by 3 ft) so we tried setting that up for her. It took her a while to settle but now she is comfortably sleeping in the pen with an old sweater of mine (her bedding is the memory foam, pads then fleece as was suggested in the other site - I just put the sweater in for her comfort right now). She is not on any medications at the moment. Her vet said he felt she was comfortable so no pain meds. I have seen the tech do a bladder expression but will have to do my first one on my own in an hour or two. I hope it goes OK. The tech said she has a smallish bladder so it might be a bit difficult. I had a few questions: 1. I wondered if the playpen is too big for what she should have. She can't really roam in it but I hope it is ok. Any thoughts? Should I block off part of the playpen to make the space a bit tighter? 2. How much movement can they have in the bed? It takes her a while to find a comfy spot - she's always been this way. Should I worry about her moving around before she settles? 3. Any tips on dealing with a small bladder and the expressing? I know I need to practice. Thank you, everyone.
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 24, 2013 21:04:47 GMT -7
Hi Kari,
So glad you now have Mia home with you. Now that she is home she can rest and heal in comfort in her familiar surroundings.
When Tyler came home from surgery we had his sleeping crate in the bedroom as always, an ex pen recovery suite in the living room and yet another crate in our office upstairs so he could be with us. We carried him carefully from one to the other. He was content with that arrangement..
As far as the room in the playpen, she only needs the space that allows dog to stand up in and turn around, no room to walk or jump up. Any extra space in the play pen can be taken up with rolled up blankets.
Not too much you can do about the extra moving around while she settles, that is natural dog behavior and it shows she is feeling better.
Let us know how it goes with your first expressing session. It does take some time to learn, so don't be discouraged. If need be have another lesson with your Vet tech.. but have her put her hands over your hands so you have a hands on lesson. Hope that makes sense.
Welcome home Mia!!!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 24, 2013 21:29:54 GMT -7
Well, attempt #1 at manual expression was a flop. I am going to try again in the morning and if not, I will take her in for a tech to give another lesson. It is tricky!! I think I will also have to put some blankets in the playpen as it might be a bit too much room. Thanks Pauliana! Kari
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Oct 25, 2013 7:28:23 GMT -7
Hi Kari, how did it work with Mia's sleeping arrangements? My Furbaby slept with us too, so finding a comfortable solution was a challenge. We just put her crate on the bed,(it's a King size), and everything worked fine. As a matter of fact...due to not being able to find any other solution, and being so afraid she'll jump off, she STILL sleeps in her crate on our bed...Hang in there, I know how hard it is, but we are all here for you. Read, read, then read some more. There is sooo much info here, and if you have questions, there is ALWAYS someone around who can answer, or point you in the right direction.. Much love and (((many hugs))).. Praying for you both.
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 25, 2013 8:24:13 GMT -7
Well, my husband was able to successfully manually express her bladder this morning so we were happy. I do hope we got it all - didn't see a lot of drips at the end, but he said he couldn't compress any more. I'm trying to encourage the fluids for her to help flush the bladder and prevent an infection. She has been resting comfortably today which has been great to see. I will take her out shortly for a quick sling "walk" and to do her physio exercises. I'm going to aim for 4x/day for both the "walk" (ie. potty break) and the physio. I'll also aim for that for her bladder expression. Hopefully that's enough. Thank you everyone for your kind words. I will continue to read and learn. Trying to get information down so that I can learn from others too. Appreciate everyone's time in responding! Kari
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 25, 2013 13:27:23 GMT -7
More questions... Thank you to all who read and answer them 1. How often to take her for her along walk? She has no movement in her back legs so it's just to take her out briefly. We have been expressing her bladder so she's not doing any potty time during the sling walks. 2. How often to do her physio exercises? I know the vet told us but I don't remember. I was aiming for 4x/day. But finding it tough to do every few hours with her sleeping most of the time. 3. She's not eating well and drinking minimally. I have made some chicken stock and will try those with her. Any other suggestions? Is this typical when they first come home? I'm hoping expressing her bladder every 4-6 hours is adequate. Where can I find information about a UTI? I am worried that we might not be expressing her enough but I really have no idea. Feel so helpless in that regard. The bladder expression is my biggest source of stress right now. Thanks everyone!! Kari
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 25, 2013 13:43:00 GMT -7
Kari, she has a lot of healing to do with just the surgical procedure, so sleeping is a very good thing. I would take her out to express every 3-4 hours, often enough to keep her dry. As you become proficient in expressing you can easily move up to every 4-6 hours and she stays dry. Go back and express in your local vet's office where the vet tech can check your work…this is how we all have learned…practice and feedback.
The surgeon directed at home PT, aim for 3x a day. What did the surgeon direct for PT and for crate rest? Something like this: Unless the surgeon specifically said to sling walk her I would not, I'd just do the exercises he demoed for you…something like those in the video. Let us know what the vet said.
Is she on any meds at this time. Not eating/drinking is a sign to be addressed. UTI may show signs of infection of not feeling good, yucky. Urinalysis can rule out infection.
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 25, 2013 15:24:03 GMT -7
Hi Paula, thanks for all your insight! She is actually dry, her bedding is not wet at all. I just tried to express her again with no success but my husband will be home monetarily so I will try again with him and if not, we will go to the vet clinic. The surgeon did suggest to take her for a sling walk several times per day to encourage urination/defecation. I did try to tempt her with a bit of cheese (her favorite) and she gobbled that down so maybe she's just being a bit fussy (she can definitely be like that at times). She has had some fluids but not much so I'll continue to encourage that. Shes never been a big water drinker though so I have no idea what to expect. She's not on any medications at the moment.
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 25, 2013 19:52:58 GMT -7
Great news!! I had to go to the vet to see if the tech would help me with expressing Mia's bladder. She was having problems too so the vet came in and wanted to see if she could make it happen. In the end, she said Mia's bladder was not that full. We got some urine out and she just suggested to keep her hydrated so that the bladder is easier to find. I'm going to try and put tuna water in her water as she didn't drink much more with the chicken stock in it. At the end of the session, the vet did squeeze Mia's toes and Mia pulled her leg back slightly (on each side). She also moved her tail a small amount! It's the first signs of movement we have seen!! I was so happy. Mia is now resting comfortably and I will rest happy as well
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 25, 2013 20:18:07 GMT -7
Hi Kari!
Great news about tail and feet movement and I can feel your happiness from here.. Yeah!
Keep on tempting her any way you can to eat, so she can gain her strength back.. This is the time to get out her very favorite foods... My Tyler didn't want to eat right away either. He doesn't eat or drink when he doesn't feel well so we had to entice him and once he started nibbling he realized he was very hungry. We also ate in front of him to get his appetite going.. IE: Mom and Dad are eating, I should too!"
Keeping my fingers crossed that she will eat and drink very soon for you!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 26, 2013 19:55:10 GMT -7
More update on Mia: This morning I was able to successfully express her bladder - yay for me. I took her out later in the morning for a quick sling walk (as per surgeon's instructions) and she was able to pee for me!! Her legs are still not moving but her tail distinctly went up and she started to pee!! I have never been so happy to see her pee! Today, she has peed 3 times outside for me. I've noticed that she is eating and drinking a lot better as well (eating regular amounts and now taking the water with chicken stock in it, which she wouldn't drink it for me yesterday!) I am wondering how quickly I might expect her to regain some bowel function (ie. poop). She had a few small pellets come out (involuntarily) earlier today but nothing since. I haven't allowed her much movement outside with the sling at all. Just enough to pee, then I pick her up and we head back in. Should I let her wander a bit more to see if she will poop? Or take her to an area she regularly poops and see if she will do something? I don't know what to expect but wondered if her bowel function might return approx. at the same time as the bladder? It is good news all around! I'm just hesitant to push the outside strolls without some pay off (ie. she poops!) Thank you!
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 26, 2013 20:35:07 GMT -7
That is Fabulous news, Kari! Congratulations on successfully expressing her bladder! And turn about is fair play, she wanted to show you she can pee too! Now that she has bladder control, bowel control shouldn't be far away. I would carry her to a former poop spot and set her down and see if that helps. Now that she is eating and drinking, she should get more regular.. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato. Did the surgeon give you any physical therapy instructions for Mia? Thanks for all the great news! Keep up the good healing Mia!
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Oct 27, 2013 7:20:30 GMT -7
GREAT news Kari! You are doing a GREAT job... It only gets easier from here. Praying for you and your FurBaby, and sending many (((hugs))) your way..
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 27, 2013 18:24:20 GMT -7
Thank you Paula, Pauliana and djaustin for your encouraging words and for your advice. Mia had another good day. Still able to pee on her own during her sling 'walks' - more like sling 'steps'. Not able or wanting to poop on her own though. But is pooping. We had a few friends over today for a kids' Halloween party so we had Mia up in our room in the playpen we have set up for her. I had given her a kong with some peanut butter in it to keep her busy but I heard her worked up about an hour after the party started. I don't know if she tried jumping at all but she was definitely more restless than the past few days and I'm just hoping she didn't do any damage since we have been seeing such great progress. Should I worry about this? I am kicking myself though - I was really close to cancelling the party as I didn't want her to have any side effects from it including being worked up. She does go a bit nuts for her kong though so I won't be bringing that out again while she's healing. I guess I'll just have to keep an eye out and be very strict with her rest for the coming days. We don't plan on doing anything like this again while she is healing. I don't want anything to jeopardize her progress!!
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Post by yainey on Oct 27, 2013 18:45:13 GMT -7
Kari, My Buster had surgery a few days before your Mia and we've also been going through much of the same experience. He came home paralyzed with a bit of bladder function. I can tell you the second day I had him home (7 days out from surgery) I set him on the bed to clean him up, turned my back and he jumped! Thank god it was a super padded carpet and not very high- still, I was sick all week thinking I had just further broken my dog. He's ok- I know because he has made progress every day and can stand now- but I know what you are going through. Don't kick yourself, learn from it :-)
On a totally unrelated note- I usually give Buster kong's when I leave him alone too. I seem to recall reading somewhere that I had to keep him off the kongs for the first 4 weeks of recovery because they can get "too worked up" chowing down. I have no idea if I just made that up but for us Tradazone has been super helpful getting Buster to agree to crate time- especially during the work day.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 28, 2013 5:14:22 GMT -7
Kari, there are some good tips on calming dogs down while on crate rest here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmIf you do have people over again while she's healing, you might want to try some of them. If Mia is jumping up in her crate, you can lower the top by punching holes in the corner of a piece of cardboard and tying in inside the crate. You can also put a towel over the top of the crate to create a den-like feeling. Kongs can be given but if they get too worked up with them, it's best to hold off until after they have healed. If you do give a Kong, try freezing some of her kibble with water in the Kong. Peanut butter is too high calory for while they're on crate rest. You don't want her adding on any weight while she's immobile. Hang in there - you're doing great!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 28, 2013 20:41:54 GMT -7
Yainey and Marjorie - thank you. Pauliana - the surgeon said to take her for her sling walks a few times each day to encourage urination/defecation and as tolerated, let her practice standing on her back legs. We haven't had much success with the standing - she is still dragging her feet, but I wasn't expecting much yet. He also encouraged us to do her "bicycle" exercises with her range of motion from leg to toes a few times each day which we have been doing diligently. I think I will sign off of the kongs for her crate rest time, she just seems to get too worked up with it. In the end, I think it ends up doing more harm than good. She seems to be doing otherwise well. I don't know when I might expect some changes in terms of movement though? I realize there are no timelines for this but I wondered if it would be a matter of weeks or perhaps days? And she does lift her tail when she pees. Is that an involuntary movement? Or does she have to do it consciously (indicating some movement in her back end)? Thank you everyone as always for your wonderful feedback. Kari
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 28, 2013 21:55:02 GMT -7
Hi Kari,
In order for us humans to identify a neuro function we have to see some sort of head level involvement. The tail moving at potty time is likely to be a reflex caused by pressure/sensation of poop or urine inside the body. Now if you see the tail move because she heard (head level) some happy talk and then moved the tail side to side, we know a message travel from brain down the spinal cord to the tail.
I know how much you want to see improvement, but it really does take time. I learned to appreciate every little tiny sign of improvement in Tyler.. It really was the little things that meant the most. Like his first tail wag..
Sending healing thoughts to Mia and to you..
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Post by yainey on Oct 30, 2013 8:06:07 GMT -7
As a point of reference, Buster had surgery on 10/12 and was released from the hospital on the 19th. As of the 19th, there was no indication of hind limb movement (the only progress he made was the ability to initiate a pee). The doctors said it may be months before we saw something. Not sure if there is a correlation, but after his staples came out on the 26th in the following days we saw huge gains- one day he just stood up and took two steps to his bowl. Every day he can stand a little longer (e.g. from 5 seconds to 30 seconds, now up to a minute). But please know...until that point, we had nothing- it just sort of happens, on no specific timetable.
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 30, 2013 11:34:24 GMT -7
Thank you Pauliana and yainey. She is still showing no movement (no tail or hind legs) but we are not giving up hope. She has been able to pee consistently on her own since the weekend and that is a gain from last week. We see the surgeon next week on the 6th. Unfortunately I slipped today on some ice while carrying her out for a potty break. I managed to hold her horizontal the whole time and absorbed quite a bit of the fall on my bum. But she was probably jarred somewhat, how much I can't be sure. For that I just feel sick about it. Ironically I was just thinking to myself at that moment how I needed to sand the deck since the weather was getting slightly warmer and the snow was a bit icy. I know there is nothing I can do except hope that the fall didn't impact her much.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 30, 2013 14:29:00 GMT -7
I'm so sorry to hear of your fall, Kari! I hope you both are OK. Prayers that all is well. Please let us know how you both are as soon as you have a chance. We'll be anxiously awaiting word.
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Oct 30, 2013 21:12:41 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie, thank you for your kind thoughts. Mia seems to be fine. Surprisingly, I am most concerned about her. She has not had any changes in her status so I will take it as a positive and continue to watch her closely. As for me, apart from a huge bruise on my bum, I am doing ok. Thanks again.
A quick question: how much lap time would be permitted for Mia on her crate rest? Assuming she is carried onto the lap and settles immediately in the same position she is placed in.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Oct 31, 2013 20:29:55 GMT -7
Really Kari, no lap time. Only out of the crate for any PT the surgeon has ordered. Give her some extra loving while doing the exercises. Too many bad things can happen and have happened while on a lap. Sorry
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Post by Stevie & Cleopatra on Oct 31, 2013 22:30:40 GMT -7
Hi Kari! I just wanted to tell you that when my dog, Cleo was on her crate rest after surgery, I also fell while holding her. I was carrying her outside for a sling walk and I missed one of my front stairs, I actually sprained my ankle and got pretty bruised up, but I somehow managed to hold Cleo over my head while I crashed. I was in quite a bit of pain, but Cleo was just fine! Sorry about your fall but you are doing a great job with Mia, keep up the good work!
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Post by Kari's dog Mia on Nov 4, 2013 21:26:19 GMT -7
Thank you Linda and cleosmom, for your advice. I was away this weekend so my husband was watching and caring for Mia. All was fine and she has been relatively status quo. Today, however, I think she was able to wag her tail slightly. It is hard to tell as it was cold out and we were doing a potty break but her tail seemed to 'vibrate' a bit when I was talking to her, something that I haven't seen before. I hope it was some voluntary movement!! We see the surgeon for follow up on Wednesday. She seems to have no ill side effects of my fall last week. I had a few more questions: 1. I've been doing her physio religiously 4-5 times per day as instructed. Lately though there seems to be some resistance when I cycle her legs. Could this be some muscle atrophy or could she be resisting me a bit? I know she has some sensation in her toes of her back legs. 2. I think we have resigned ourselves to the fact that it will be unsafe for Mia to ever sleep with us in our bed when she is recovered and off crate rest. We have her in a playpen beside our bed and I am thinking of transitioning her to a larger dog pen. Her current crate that we used before her injury was small, just enough space for her to get in and turn around. I won't put her in it while on crate rest but I thought I might get a medium size one and start to use it for her so that she has more room and then keep her in it after her crate rest. Is this advisable? Should I wait until after her crate rest to do this? We want her to continue to sleep in our room. Thank you!!
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