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Post by diesel11 on Mar 18, 2013 13:47:38 GMT -7
Our 3 year old puggle (will be 4 on 3/30), Diesel suddenly had issues with his hind legs and had a big hunch in his back. We thought maybe he was maybe sick or ate something and it would pass. He was still eating/peeing/pooping/etc. and did not seem to be in any pain, but was clearly not himself. We decided that we would let him sleep in our bed over night and take him to the vet first thing the next morning. Last night, he never really fell asleep and was clearly uncomfortable and began panting and was in obvious pain and had no use of his hind legs. We packed him up and took him to the emergency vet. They began to treat him for IVDD with hypertonic saline and steroid injections in addition to morphine and an IV to ease his pain. This morning he was catheterized and remains in the same condition. The emergency doctor we saw last night indicated to us that we should expect to see no results for at least 4-5 days. The doctor did say that he had a slight reaction to the hemostat last night. However, the doctor we spoke with this morning states he has no deep pain sensation from the hemostat test as of this morning. His only advice was surgery (which is unfortunately not an option for us). I was hopeful in thinking that possibly the morphine was surpressing his deep pain sensation during this morning's hemostat test, but i am unsure if that is even possible. He is currently still in a padded crate at the vet and we are not sure what to do. We are more than willing to bring him home and do whatever it takes to allow him to have a fully happy life. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
Kristie
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Post by Melissa Albright on Mar 18, 2013 14:13:59 GMT -7
We had a similar situation last weekend. We brought our little Doxie Sammie home last Monday thinking she would never walk again. We were so sad at the thought of having to put her down, then we found this site. We have seen great improvements in Sammie in just one week. The first few days were extremely overwhelming as we all adjusted to her new condition. We learned how to help her express her poop and pee and that helped. She is now showing signs of regaining control of this and has only had a couple of accidents. She is eating again and we are seeing her personality return to normal. There is hope with 24/7 crate rest.
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 18, 2013 14:28:37 GMT -7
We had a similar situation last weekend. We brought our little Doxie Sammie home last Monday thinking she would never walk again. We were so sad at the thought of having to put her down, then we found this site. We have seen great improvements in Sammie in just one week. The first few days were extremely overwhelming as we all adjusted to her new condition. We learned how to help her express her poop and pee and that helped. She is now showing signs of regaining control of this and has only had a couple of accidents. She is eating again and we are seeing her personality return to normal. There is hope with 24/7 crate rest. Thanks! That's great news for your dog! Did she loose deep pain sensation as well? Has she had any movement with her legs? When you brought her home did she continue to be in pain or did that finally subside? We don't want Diesel to be in pain but we certainly don't want to put him down either. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,797
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 18, 2013 16:57:58 GMT -7
Kristie, welcome to Dodgerlist! Most dogs heal much better at home than at the vet.... bring him home!!! Ask for a hands on top of your hands lesson on expressing the bladder. You will get a lot more out of the lesson by reviewing this video and the tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmYou may or may not see results in 4-5 days. Don't worry if you don't. The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal… in fact there is no time limit for nerves to heal. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks will be your focus at home...no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). Our long term hope for Diesel is that you will take on the duties of self education to be able to understand the IVDD enemy and take an active roll in working with the vet, be an integral part of making decisions based on your readings. I hope as quickly as time permits, you will begin to devour each of the articles in our Disc Disease 101 area. Diesel is going to be dependent on your abilities. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmPlease start with the one on conservative Treatment as that will help you during the next 8 weeks to know what to expect. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/conservative.htm Let us know what meds he is sent home with especially that he is on a stomach protector such as Pepcid AC (famotidine) Get ready for homecoming, get his recovery suite set up...great tips here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm |
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Post by Melissa Albright on Mar 18, 2013 17:02:47 GMT -7
Sammie had deep pain sensation when we took her to the ER but when we picked her up Monday it was gone. She still has minimal movement in her legs. We have seen small improvements. Initially she was in pain, however we were able to manage it, and she is now off pain meds. This is the first time we have had to deal with this, but I would bring him home and see what happens. Sammie was very stressed being at the ER as she hasn't been away from home since she was fixed when she was a puppy. She did much better once she was in her own home and was able to relax.
The Pepcid is huge! Get that in him ASAP. Sammie threw up for about 24
hours as she adjusted from the iv prednisone to the oral. She is back
to eating like a champ. Also watch his stools. We had to add pumpkin
to Sammie's diet.
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 18, 2013 18:12:30 GMT -7
Thank you so much for responding. This site is really helping make our decision easier. We just got back from visiting Diesel, he has had no improvement. They have started him on a morphine drip because they felt he was in so much pain. The vet said they would like to keep him for 2 more days to give the steroids IV rather than by mouth in hopes they will work better. Our hope is to bring him home Wednesday! When we bring him home is it safe to do potty time outside or do we just do it in the crate at first? I have seen many owners started acupuncture. When would be the best time to start that?
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 18, 2013 18:18:56 GMT -7
Sammie had deep pain sensation when we took her to the ER but when we picked her up Monday it was gone. She still has minimal movement in her legs. We have seen small improvements. Initially she was in pain, however we were able to manage it, and she is now off pain meds. This is the first time we have had to deal with this, but I would bring him home and see what happens. Sammie was very stressed being at the ER as she hasn't been away from home since she was fixed when she was a puppy. She did much better once she was in her own home and was able to relax. The Pepcid is huge! Get that in him ASAP. Sammie threw up for about 24 hours as she adjusted from the iv prednisone to the oral. She is back to eating like a champ. Also watch his stools. We had to add pumpkin to Sammie's diet. Diesel also hasn't been away from home and I feel he would be much more comfortable at home. What did the pumpkin do, thicken up her stools? Do you take her outside to go to the bathroom? If so do you carry her or do you use a sling. |
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Post by Melissa Albright on Mar 18, 2013 18:59:20 GMT -7
The pumpkin can fix both problems. Initially she had a few loose stools, but now her problem is constipation. We put a spoonful and mix it with her dry food which we add water to so it makes kind of a gravy. She is gobbling it up! The first few days we just expressed her in the house. She is only 8lbs so we just placed her on a towel and helped her pee. Now we take her outside. We were having problems with her peeing on us while we carried her down the steps so now we just take her crate. We use a scarf as a sling. It's kind of a leaning process. Everyday seems to be a bit different, but I believe she will walk again, and her sweet personality has returned now that she is starting to feel better. She does not,like when we express he bladder, she always kind of looks at us like she is saying "hello personal space". Lol.
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 19, 2013 11:48:02 GMT -7
We are bringing Diesel home tom! What do we need to bring when we go to pick him up? I dont want him to be in severe pain on the ride home. Any suggestions?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,797
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 19, 2013 11:54:15 GMT -7
A crate to transport him. Pad out the extra space with rolled up blankets so his back does not move in turns and stops during transport. Limited movement is to protect the disc and the spinal cord. Ask questions about each of his meds. Know ALL the range of doses in mg and the range in frequency you can give them. It is important to know all options expecially at night or weekends when your vet is not open....to avoid ER. Call 1 hour before pick up to make sure he has had a drink of water for your hands on top of your hands expressing lesson. Review ahead of time so you get more out of the lesson: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmMake sure Pepcid AC (famotidine) is on board with the steroid pills. Have his recovery suite set up? Diesel is going to be one happy boy to be home again!! |
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 20, 2013 18:40:39 GMT -7
Diesel is home! Things aren't going so great, he has been crying and panting since we got home. They said he did that the whole 3 days at the vet as well. He is on Tramadol and I gave it about a hour ago, hoping it kicks in soon. It's really hard to see him like this. Amy suggestions on what else we can do to calm him? His recovery suite is all set up and seems comfortable. He came home on prednisone, Pepcid once a day and gabapentin once a day. Are there any other meds he should be on? Should we start massaging his back legs and doing range of motion exercises or is it to early?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,797
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 20, 2013 19:30:18 GMT -7
Kristie, can you give us the specifics on his meds (dose in mg and frequency to give). We are a group who LOVE details. LOL Do you see any of these signs of pain: pain-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight? If yes, aside from further adjustments to Tramadol and Gabapentin, ask for methocarbamol to be added to the mix. Methocarbamol works on the pain from muscle spasms. Have you seen him wag his tail if you do some happy talk to him, try that in the morning after a good nites rest and let us know. The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmWatch when you reward him . Those rewards should only be given when he is quiet or doing something you approve of. Otherwise you can be inadvertently training him to do unwanted behaviors such as whining. If he is behaving and quiet reward him with a "good boy" or a treat. Clicker training maybe helpful way to train. Clicker training: www.clickerlessons.com/clicker.htm |
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 21, 2013 13:46:35 GMT -7
Thanks for responding. I am at work right now, so I dont have the dosages, but he was up all night crying. We expressed him around 3:00AM this morning and gave him a full pill (instead of a half) of the pain medicine. He finally fell asleep around 4:00AM and slept maybe 2-3 hours at best. It is very difficult to tell if it is just anxiety or a combination of anxiety and pain. We called the vet and asked for something to help with his separation anxiety in hopes that he will lay down and rest. He is yet to do that. He wont even lay on his side. His is constantly trying to lift himself up and is panicking because he can't. We just want him to relax and stop crying. The vet has prescribed him some sort of tranquelizer that we are going to pick up and try tonight. Also, there was a bit of blood in his urine when when we expressed him this afternoon. Do you know what that could be from? Any advice at all would be so helpful.
Thanks!
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 21, 2013 15:07:19 GMT -7
Kristie,
The blood in the urine means Diesel is having a Urinary Tract infection. Very common in IVDD dogs and with being catheterized. Call the Vet and let them know you think he is having a UTI and they will need a urine sample to find the bacteria to prescribe the right antibiotic to fight the infection.. Very important to get him treated quickly for this..
Pauliana
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 21, 2013 16:16:42 GMT -7
Kristie, The blood in the urine means Diesel is having a Urinary Tract infection. Very common in IVDD dogs and with being catheterized. Call the Vet and let them know you think he is having a UTI and they will need a urine sample to find the bacteria to prescribe the right antibiotic to fight the infection.. Very important to get him treated quickly for this.. Pauliana I think it may have been due to trying to find his bladder. This afternoon there was no blood in the urine. Any other advice for keeping him anxiety free in the crate? Thanks for your help. |
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 21, 2013 16:34:57 GMT -7
Also, what does it mean if he continues to lick his nose? We are giving him a lot of water, but he keeps licking his nose and lips.. Is that just thirst due to the medications?
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 21, 2013 17:41:18 GMT -7
Kristin,
When dogs are on Prednisone, they become very thirsty and also they need to pee more often as a result. The licking the nose is likely thirst..
It still might be a good idea to test him for a UTI. As I mentioned with IVDD, and the fact that he was on a catheter makes it a big possibility.
Now that you are home from work, has he calmed down any at all? Have you given him the tranquilizer yet? Please let us know the meds he is on and the dosages.. Most of the meds tend to make them tired and sleepy but some dogs have the opposite reaction. That may be what is going on with Diesel. If that's the case his medications may need to be changed or the dosages adjusted.. Diesel doesn't understand why he suddenly can't walk.. It's all so confusing to him and to you too.
Sending comforting hugs to you and Diesel.. I remember the turmoil when Tyler went down and all we went through.. but things did get better and it becomes less overwhelming with time and learning about IVDD. The more you know the better it will be for Diesel. Be sure to read through the links that Paula gave you and take a deep breath and know that your Diesel will get better day by day.. It's early yet.
Pauliana
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,797
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 21, 2013 20:31:35 GMT -7
Kristie, we are at a great disadvantage to help you and Diesel without some important details. Can you give us the exact names of all his meds, the dose in mg and how often you give meds. Please also fill us in on any pain issues. Are you seeing any of these signs of pain at all?--- nearing the next dose of pain meds?---- shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight? Is he staying dry in between expressing sessions? How often do you express? While on a steroid it is likely you would need to express every 2-3 hours. At all time water inside his crate should be available as Pred makes them thirsty. Do you have his water and food bowls attached at head height? Use plastic containers, punch holes to run a tie wrap though and around the wires to hold a small bowl or another plastic container for easy removing and refilling  I agree with Pauliana, that is would be a good idea to rule out a bladder infection. Both catheters and learning how to express can invite infection in a matter of days. Bring in a urine sample to have your vet run a urinalysis. Infections can move up to the kidneys very fast if not caught early with antibiotics. Let us know how Diesel is feeling, if he is calmer.
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 22, 2013 5:33:58 GMT -7
Diesel had a better night last night. We all were able to get some sleep! He is not staying dry in between expressions. We are expressing every 4 hours. Not sure if it is pain or anxiety he is having. He is still shaking every now and then. Even last night while he was sleeping his front legs were shaking. Diesel is on
Tramadol 25 mg every 8 hours.
Gabapentin 100mg daily.
Prednisone 10mg 2 times a day right now. He is also getting
Pepcid. We do have
acepromazine 10 mg if we need it.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,797
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 22, 2013 7:49:19 GMT -7
Kristie, while on prednisone you can expect to express him every 2-3 hours. As your level of proficiency in expressing improves you can move up to every 3 hours. The level you seek is to be able to actually feel the bladder. When Diesel's bladder is quite full, his entire tummy area will be filled with the bladder and just light pressure with your hands or even just lifting him up will cause urine to come out. It is as the bladder voids that it becomes small like a small plum. The last stage is to feel that the bladder has become so flat that you can almost feel the fingers of your other hand. So keeping him drying is a combination of expressing often enough and fully voiding the bladder. Do not hesitate to express in your vet's clinic and have the vet tech check your work, get another hands on to know the pressure to apply, review our tips. Expressing is a practice thing.... like playing the piano... you will be successful! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Keep us updated on his starting to stay dry with more often expressing. At night the body naturally produces less urine. So If you can have his last drink at 8pm express at 10pm before you guys go to bed, you may only have to set the alarm mid way during the night for a quick expressing session or get up at 5am express and then go back to sleeep. It is all trial and error to figure out the right schedule for Diesel while you are increasing your expressing skills. If he is shaking nearing the next dose of the pain meds (tramadol, gabapentin, then the pain meds are not yet right. Methocarbamol is what vets are using for the pain stemming from muscle spasms. So that is something you can discuss with your vet. How much does Diesel weigh? What dose in mg and how often do you give the Pepcid AC? Glad to hear you and Diesel had a better night and got some much needed sleep! Hang in there things will get on a more even keel as you have pain fully under control and expressing down pat. |
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 22, 2013 10:35:16 GMT -7
Diesel is about 25lbs. I talked to the vet yesterday regarding methocarbamol. He didn't want to start him on that and the tranquilizer at the same time so he opted to not prescribe it at this time. He is on 1 tablet of Pepcid one time a day it is 20 mg. Today after expressing diesel he had a thick white secretion coming from his penis. It did not look like pus. What could that be?
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Post by diesel11 on Mar 22, 2013 11:27:29 GMT -7
Also, it is good to note that we did not need to give Diesel the tranquilizer as he was much more calm and able to rest. How long should it be before he starts defecating? He had a slight bowel movement this morning maybe the size of a ping pong ball. It has been some time since he had a movement, but the doctor said that it would be normal and that gravity would work itself out eventually. Any thoughts on this?
Additionally, we did some research on the secretion and it seems that it is actually pretty normal. It could be from the foreskin and with the trauma he has sustained and the medication, it may be a little bit thicker than normal. He used to always lick in that area before, so we probably never even noticed it.
Thanks as always.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,797
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 22, 2013 15:31:37 GMT -7
Kristie, Tramadol can be constipating. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato. Ace is often prescribed by vets as a calmer with the Tramdol/Gabpentin mix. It would be awful to forgo pain management for a sedative. Diesel would feel pain but be too wozzy to do any thing about it. Your vet also has the option with a 25 lbs dog to be more aggressive with 50mg of Tramadol 3x a day. If you believe you are seeing any of the signs of pain, it would be your duty to advocate for more aggressive pain management today and not have to go to ER after hours or Sunday. Let us know if you see pain-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight? Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/ [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers:ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets or tinyurl.com/atxc8l3
Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine.
www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.comwww.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/bach.htmPlain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. It makes all the difference in the world in caring for Diesel with ease and his being able to get fully under way with healing when pain is being managed. That is why Pain control is the first level of healing to be achieved in an hour and there after dose to dose of the pain meds. |
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