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Post by Crystal, & Butters on Jun 12, 2017 18:17:45 GMT -7
My name is Crystal and my 8 (almost 9 year old) beagle is named Butters (29 lbs).
After noticing Butters acting lethargic, nervous to go down the stairs and yelping at odd times (door opening in front of his face, someone moving quickly around him), I took him to our vet. She couldn't figure out if it was his back or neck but she suspected neck (and I agree because he was crying out when something startled him and he moved his neck quickly) and she thought it was either pinched nerve our a disc issue.
We saw the vet on 5/27 and started him on crate rest.
He is still in pain. Up until yesterday, we thought we was doing REALLY good. He would still have an occasional yelp (if we werent careful with the doors or if his sister dog got in his way) but for the most part he improved significantly. We failed MAJORLY by taking him for a car ride to my in laws lakehouse yesterday and all of a sudden he let out a HUGE cry and just started moving frantically in the back seat crying more and more and trying to get to me in the front. I believe my son threw my phone and it hit him. I am so angry at myself for allowing this to happen because ever since then he has seemed to taken a turn for the worst. He has cried when I opened his crate, cried when I put on his leash to his harness, cried when my husband just WALKED close to the crate.
He was prescribed
Methocarbamol (500mg) 1/2 tablet every 8 hours
Tramadol (50mg) 1/2 tablet - 1 tablet every 6-12 hours as needed (we used it 2x day for the first few days but then stopped because he didnt seem to be in pain)
Prednilsolone (5mg) 1 tablet orally 2x for 5 days then once daily for 5 days then 1/2 tablet daily until gone
He is still walking, wagging tail etc. He has full control of bladder.
I called the vet again today since he is doing much worse after yesterday and she has prescribed him more Prednisolone (I dont have the exact dosage because I havent picked up the refill yet).
Also want to add that crate rest has been horrible for him because he loves playing and running outside. He is not used to being crated and whines ALL the time. Im worried to give him bones/kongs because I dont know if chewing on them is bad for his neck.
[29 lbs
Redamaged disc 6/11
Prednilsolone 5mg tab as of 5/27: 5mg 2x/day for 5 days then taper
as of 6/11: ?
Methocarbamol 500mg tab: 250 mgs 3x/day
Tramadol 25-50mgs 4 or 2x/day STOPPED]
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 12, 2017 23:24:45 GMT -7
Hi Crystal! You have a pain emergency..It is not enough to increase the Prednisolone, the pain meds need adjusted also so she is pain free completely.. She has re injured her cervical disc and her crate rest needs to start over from yesterday..Neck disc episodes are very painful! More info on neck discs episodes and how to help Butters.. dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm IVDD is a lifetime disease.. When traveling by car always take Butters in a carrier or crate and always pad the sides with blankets or towels to cushion her just in case of sudden stops and turns.. Never let her be loose in the car.. As you discovered too much can happen.. Let the vet know you need a calmer to help with the crate anxiety.. Members have had success with Acepromazine and Trazadone... |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 13, 2017 3:34:54 GMT -7
In addition to speak to the vet ASAP about Crystal's pain as Pauliana so rightly advised, please also speak to the vet about adding Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving doxie weight dogs 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. Please let us know what the exact current dosage is of the Prednisolone. It should be back up to the original dosage of 5 mg 2x/day, which is the anti-inflammatory dosage. Anything less than the anti-inflammatory dosage will not be effective in resolving the swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine. Please also let us know what the taper schedule will be. The three pain meds that are usually all necessary with painful neck injuries are Tramadol, Methocarbamol and Gabapentin. Also Amantidine can be added if those three do not get the pain completely under control. Pain should be completely under control from one dose of pain meds to the next with no sign of pain arising. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. More info on pain meds: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmBe sure to do the extra things in the link that Pauliana gave you, such as softening hard kibble, raising food/water dishes, no Kongs or bones: dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm After you have spoken to the vet ASAP about Butters' pain, please give us more information. ☐ Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)? ☐ Let us know you are on the same page about crate rest. The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the crate rest part. With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. That 6 weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no dragging or meandering at potty times. Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg☐ Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? Once Crystal's pain is brought under control, please take a look at other ways you can help her relax in the crate: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm Excluding an emergency of pain not being controlled or diminishment of nerve functions that require prompt vet help, we have excellent resources for many IVDD questions members have. While you are waiting for a reply, do check out our "All things IVDD" resources for getting the recovery suite setup to an overview of just how Conservative Treatment works: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmPlease let us know what the vet says after speaking to them this morning about pain meds and Pepcid AC. Healing prayers for Crystal. |
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 13, 2017 7:36:26 GMT -7
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Post by Crystal, & Butters on Jun 13, 2017 19:14:45 GMT -7
The vet (DVM) is basically staring us from scratch. Here is what he on as of today.
Methocarbamol 500mg every 8 hrs (1/2 tablet)
Prednisolone 5mg Give 1 tablet 2x for 1-2 days, then once daily for 1-2 days then 1/2 tablet every 2-3 days as needed. It says to use lowest dose possible.
Gabapentin 100mg 1x a day
Famotidine 10mg 1x a day
Tramdol 1/2 - 1 tablet every 6-12 hours as needed (we plan on giving him a 1/2 tablet 3x a day---every 8 hours when we give him his Methocarbonal)
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
29 lbs
Redamaged disc 6/11
Prednisolone 5mg tab as of 6/13: 5mgs 2x/day for 1 or 2 days ? then taper
Methocarbamol 250 mgs 3x/day
Tramadol 25mgs 3x/day
Gabapentin 100mgs 1x/day]
Today was confusing (as far as pain goes). I let him out of his crate, picked him up, let him potty and put him in his crate and he didnt yelp once for me. My husband got home and said he yelped twice when getting him out of his cage. He swears he is moving slowly and "doing it the same way I do." Not sure why he only cried out for my husband and not me.
Since kongs and bones are not allowed, is there any thing he can to help combat his boredom?
Also, I dont know if its the Tramadol but he seems to act extra anxious/funky when taking Tramadol. The vet said sometimes it can make them act a little weird and we might need to switch him from that.
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Jun 14, 2017 5:49:54 GMT -7
Crystal, I am glad to see that your doctor has increased the pain meds. If you are still seeing signs of pain, that means the pain is not under control and a call needs to be made to your vet. The gabapentin dose seems light to me, and Butters may be better served by giving Gabapentin a few times a day. My Mimi, who was 10 lbs lighter than Butters took her Gabapentin 3x per day and was up to 60mg per dose at one point. Please reach out to your vet to discuss this.
When you say he gets anxious/funky when taking the Tramadol...does this happen when you are giving the medication or a while after he has taken it? The medication is bitter so dogs do not like to take it...make sure to give it wrapped up in something (a piece of banana, low sodium deli meat) so that they cannot smell it. Try giving a treat without the meds, then the treat with the meds, followed up with a treat without the meds. This will help them to take it.
As for boredom, they need the rest and "boredom" of the crate to recover. I spent a lot of time sitting on the floor next to the crate. The ideas in this video can be used as long as done inside of the recovery suite paying attention to very limited movement of the back that is required of dogs under conservative treatment:
Remember, your dog likes to be with you. If we were outside, we would move her crate outside too. The smells and change of scenery helped a lot.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,792
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 14, 2017 6:51:59 GMT -7
Crystal, when is the last time Butters has had a blood panel to know if prednisone is ok for his organs? Why is the dose of prednisone low for a 29lbs (13.15kg) dog AND only given a one-two day course? By the time your husband came home the little prednisone level in the body may have been even less nearing the next dose, not really working on painful swelling.
If Butter's organ health permits prednisone then why is it not being used at the more typical anti-inflammatory level? Medicine is an art in achieving the right dose. Below are two references that show you there is a range used for inflammation that could be tried. Discuss moving in a more quick approach to get the spinal cord swelling down by moving up to the anti-inflammatory dose of pred. It can take anywhere from 7 to 30 days on the anti-inflammatory dose to resolve all painful swellling. Taper days which is where he has been started at do little to work on painful swelling.
Note that tramadol is under used for a 29lbs (13.5kg) dog and may not be doing anything painwise for Butters by the time your husband got home. Discuss increasing the Tramadol mgs 3x/day.
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Post by Crystal, & Butters on Jun 16, 2017 18:00:53 GMT -7
Butters had been on Preds for 2 weeks prior to when i I originally made this post but then he relapsed. That is why his dosage is low right now. The vet doesn't want to harm him by having him on them for too long. The good news is he is pain free and don't very well. He is still having anxiety about being in his crate and I hate to add one more med for him to take, but I just might have to.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,792
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 16, 2017 18:24:41 GMT -7
Crystal, Butters is on a tapering dose of pred at this point. Taper doses do not work on swelling. Tapers are for one of the reasons used to test for pain. When pain masking pain meds are still on board during a pred taper, you and the vet are bilndfolded as to whether there is still swelling to work on and the need to get back up to the anti-inflammatory level (pred 5mgs 2x/day) pronto. When can the pain meds be stopped or backed of so that Butters does not loose time in getting back on pred IF pain is revealed? If no pain on the taper when pain-masking pain meds have been stopped then the taper goes to concluson and all that remains is to let the disc heal by the end of 8 weeks. Check out our emergency crate training article for ideas to help Butter relax in his recovery suite. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm |
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