Jenny's Jack 4/7 surgery —Westie

Hi, welcome to Dodgerslist. Everyone here has a dog with IVDD so you have come to the right place. I am sorry that Jack had a disk episode.


Once the fentanyl wears off then the tramadol and gabapentin are what will control the pain.

If these meds are not dosed high enough or frequently enough then the dog will be in pain.


Would you please tell us the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg’s and times per day given? What was the start dose if on a steroid, date of taper?

   Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving doxie weight dogs 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory.


What breed is Jack? How much does Jack weigh?

When the pain meds are correct, Jack will have relief from pain in one hour and there should be no pain between doses. It is okay to give him the meds that will relieve his pain. He will only be on them for a brief period and the priority should be pain relief. Pain will only slow the healing process. His surgery was very recent and he may be suffering pain from the incision.


Are you now doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty and the surgeon directed PT? …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No chiro (aka VOM). What did your surgeon direct for PT and for post-op crate rest?

See if there are any other things you can do to make post-op crate rest go smoother with these very useful tips and ideas:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm and www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm


Is the new tramadol dose relieving his pain? Are you seeing any of these signs of pain; shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can't find a comfortable position. Arched back. Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground.

Currently can Jack wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk?

Can Jack specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?

Is he Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood?

A lot of our IVDD dogs are anxious and trazadone can work well for this.

Here is good reading by Dr. Isaacs, ACVIM (neurology) as he explains many post-op questions for our IVDD community: meds, crate rest, PT.
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm#meds

What is you name? I am Romy.

It is very scary when our dogs have IVDD. It becomes less so when we learn all we can about the disease. An excellent page to start with is "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link:
www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Healing thoughts for Jack

 I am glad that Jack is now resting. The fact that Jack is yelping when picked up shows he is still in pain. Sometimes it takes three medications working together to fully relieve pain. This is the combination we most frequently see for good pain control; Methocarbamol for painful muscle contractions; Tramadol Rx'd 3x/day as the general pain releiver;Gabapentin for nerve pain also Rx'd 3x/day. The dose of tramadol is on the low side for a 15 pound dog.

Veterinary pharmacologist Bruce KuKanich, DVM, PhD, DACVCP: "Tramadol is rapidly eliminated from dogs after oral administration. Recent studies are suggestive the bioavailability of tramadol in dogs is lower than originally determined and the dose of tramadol needs to be increased with dosages from 5 - 10 mg/kg PO q 8-12 hours in dogs to maintain similar plasma drug concentrations as those in humans." New developments in opioids: old drugs and some future directions (Proceedings)" DVM360. Nov 01, 2009 By Butch KuKanich, DVM, PhD, DACVCP
veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/new-developments-opioids-old-drugs-and-some-future-directions-proceedings

Jack's 15 lbs converts to 6.8kg.

If the pain meds have been correctly Rx'd  Jack's pain would be in control in one hour and remain that way dose to dose.

We are not vets and do not know the specifics of each dog's health. We are making this suggestion based on what we've seen qualified vets prescribe in the past and only as a basis for discussion with your vet. Please let your vet know that Jack is still in pain and ask about the dosages.

I am glad that you have gotten a crate. Post-op crate rest is important. It is important not to overdo things while all the surgical sites are healing. Dr. Isaacs , ACVIM (Neurology) mentions "The soft tissue dissection associated with surgery typically takes 4-6 weeks to mend." You can read the rest of the answer about post-op Crate Rest here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm#restPT

It is very scary when our dogs have IVDD. It becomes less so when we learn all we can about the disease. An excellent page to start with is "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link:
www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

It is certainly possible that the surgeon did not get all the disk material out, which sometimes  can be hidden, and this is the cause of the pain.  There have been some dogs on this list that had to have a second surgery very close to the first.  If you feel this is possible, please ask the surgeon as soon as you can.

Many dogs have post surgery pain. Jack's seems to be on the higher end of the scale. It is okay to use a Fentanyl patch if that is what Jack needs.  Don't hesitate to treat his pain.

Hi, my name is Paula, is  yours Jen? Do not have any patience with pain at all. When the pain meds are correct, pain is gone at max of one hour and stays that way dose to does. So if you see pain, report it immediately. It can take about 2 weeks for the surgery caused swelling to subside, til then pain meds are required to be at the right level to give full comfort.

Please let us know how Jack is doing later tonight and in the morning ...does he have full pain relief.

Wonderful news that Jack is in comfort with the increase in meds and is accepting his recovery suite.

We are a small little friendly group...we just go by first names...what's yours?

Update on Jack - He is doing MUCH better. We started to see a change on Friday and he just got better and better over the weekend. 

Now he won't stop moving and we're having a hard time controlling his energy and keeping him calm! He wants to play and run and jump and it's frustrating! 

He is having his staples removed on Monday, 4/24. Should we expect him to feel some pain after that? or will he feel even better?

Jenny, for how many weeks does your surgeon want for crate rest plus his directed PT?  
What is your vet directing for PT now that Jack is so mobile.  Sometimes the PT is the walk to and from the potty place. 

Removal of staples is something that Macy will not likley even notice.

Tell us more about when you are having problems controlling his energy.... at pottyt time, while in his recovery suite. Details will help us to come up with some ideas for you.

During crate rest Dr. Becker, DVM, explains the need for mental exercise since running around is not yet allowed.
 "During your dog's mandated rest time for recovery, her movements will be restricted, but her mind will still need stimulation. Teaching her tricks and games appropriate for her temporary physical restrictions will help relieve boredom."
      Do choose only the activities that can take place inside the recovery suite and do not more movement that what your surgeon has directed.  Dr. Becker's "Help Keep Your Pup Happy When She's on Crate Rest" and Dr. Horwitz' video demoing mind stimulation activities on the Dodgerslist "Emergency Crate Training" page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm

 A harness and 6 foot leash will control speed and keep your dog from running off as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!