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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 12, 2017 14:09:49 GMT -7
Thank you for your response. I do apologize for getting upset, but it is so frustrating in trying to do the right thing for Toni, only to learn that it may not be. I am 100% invested in his recovery. The vet yesterday stated that Toni is doing remarkably well, considering that he hasn't had any anti inflammatory meds. He is walking normally, no wobbly steps. The only time he exhibits pain, is during his neuro exam. At home, he seems totally relaxed and pain free. He spends his time in his crate, except for going to potty, which he does on pee pads. We also sit next to his crate, so he doesn't feel isolated. The dosage of the prednisone is low in case there is still some of the depo medrol shot present in his body. I will call the new vet early next week, and hopefully at that time, get the dosage adjusted. Also, in looking over the paperwork I received yesterday, I noticed six rehab therapy sessions in addition to the laser and acupuncture, in the package that was suggested to me. I am not sure what these entail. I believe there was talk about light massage and movement of the legs, but not sure. This may be after crate rest as well. I emailed the vet to find out and told him that I do not want anything physical at this time. Thankfully, I can customize the packages they offer to suit what I want for Toni. I was told that they are totally flexible and will listen to my concerns, and as soon as they would notice Toni showing any signs of discomfort at all, they would stop immediately. So, I am hopeful. My biggest concern right now is, will Toni be able to have a normal doggy life once he recovers. I am aware that he won't be able to jump etc, but at the same time, will I have to be vigilant of every move he makes.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 12, 2017 14:39:20 GMT -7
I understand how stressful it is trying to do what is best for our dogs. I remember it well as one of the most difficult times of my life when Frankie had his disk episode.. It is great that Toni is pain free and walking well. What helped my Frankie after his crate rest was over was aqua therapy where he walked on an underwater treadmill. I do not think he would have recovered nearly as well without it. Our dogs can do most of the things that they did before. There are only a few things that are off limits. These are the things to be avoided forever. You probably know them already. No more stairs or steps. Use ramps indoors No more jumping up or down, those activities increase impact on the spine. No tug-o-war, pulling games. No shaking toys. No zig zag running. No rambunctious playing with other dogs. Teach your dog to not pull on the leash No sitting up or standing on back legs. A wonderful essay here talks about the fear of recurrence that we all have had: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivdd
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 12, 2017 15:15:40 GMT -7
Yes, I know about nof jumping up or down and no stairs (we have baby gates at the bottom of the stairs ). The main concern is playing with his brother Nathan. They like to chase each other and run around the coffee table. I have a fenced in yard, but it goes up the hill a bit, and they love running around in it. Also, when my neighbor's dogs are outside, my two like to run up and down the fence with them, sometimes Nathan getting too excited and trying to jump over Toni. The other concern I have is leash walking. Usually, Toni does really well, but when I walk both dogs, Nathan gets excited and pulls, causing Toni to pull as well. I don't know how to stop these behaviors. I need to practice these precautions with both of them, as Nathan is a dachshund as well.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 12, 2017 21:56:42 GMT -7
Do you have a harness for Toni for leash walks? In the future collars should now only be used for ID tags and licenses to prevent strain on the neck and back. dodgerslist.com/literature/harnessPULL.jpgI can understand how hard it was to walk both of them when one was pulling and encouraging the other to do so as well. Here is a video on how to teach them not to pull: www.dog-obedience-training-review.com/leash-training-a-dog.htmlAfter crate rest is over and it would be best at first to walk them separately until Toni has gradually increased her walks and gotten stronger. How is Nathan taking Toni being on crate rest and the major change in routine? Following the precautions for both of them is a great idea since they are both Dachshunds and it is easier to enforce the rules if they both have to follow them.. It is confusing to a dog to see one get away with something they aren't allowed to do..
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 13, 2017 10:31:12 GMT -7
They both have harnesses. I started this since they were puppies. Nathan is very confused that his brother cannot play with him. He will sit in front of the crate and whine. They are litter mates and are very bonded. They are used to cuddling, and now this has been taken away from them, and they don't understand why. Toni is having a good day, seems pain free and is resting.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2017 11:09:17 GMT -7
Charllotte, good to hear pain is fully in control.
Have you a little cushion or blankiet for Nathan to lie on right outside of the Toni's suite? That way they can be close and take a nap together, touching through the wires.
Praise Nathan when he is doing good behavior, too. Good sit, good quiet, etc. It lets him know you are paying attention to him also so he does not get jealous.
Keep on being strong and dedicated to the 100% STRICT rest 24/7 for the full 8 weeks and waiting til graduation day before any type of PT is introduced. Slowly you will begin to build up Toni's muscles and slowly introduce him to being wtih Nathan. We can share with you activities you can encourage that will be safe for Toni and also make Nathan happy.
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 13, 2017 13:50:31 GMT -7
I pull Nathan's doggy bed next to the crate, so he and Toni can smell and kiss through the wires. They both receive loads of praise and good boys. I don't think Nathan is too jealous, just misses his brother. Toni will probably start laser therapy next week.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 13, 2017 20:02:03 GMT -7
So glad Toni is feeling better. I used laser therapy for my dog during her last episode and found it very helpful. Just be super careful to prevent as much movement as possible. I transported my Nala in a small carrier padded with a pillow and rolled blankets all around the sides. Carried that in and held her securely on the table during treatment. Then back in the carrier. Best wishes for you both!
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 14, 2017 18:41:35 GMT -7
I have a question : how long are you supposed to keep your dog on the pain medications /muscle relaxers? Surely, these strong meds can't be good for them.
[15.8 lbs crate rest started 4/1 with relapse Prednisone as of 4/11: taper dose 5mgs 1x/day for 4 days, then more tapering. tramadol 50 mgs 2x/day neurontin 50mgs 2x/day methocarbomol 250mg2x/day]
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 14, 2017 20:06:26 GMT -7
It is true most all meds carry with them side effects. There are no safe meds, just that they are used in a safe manner. The safety in using meds is all about a vet who practices safe use by calling for a blood test to check the health of organs to be on certain meds, protecting the GI tract with those that cause extra stomach acids and the owner who has taken time to read up on each med as a secondary safety measure.
Prednisone is one in particular that has some serious side effect.... one of the most common is damage to the stomach lining.
Do you now have Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day on board for as long as Toni is on prednisone? Prednisone is known to increase stomach acids which can lead to not eating, vomit, bleeding ulcers.
How's Toni, doing painwise? In full comfort? Tomorrow starts another reduction of pred. Reductions of pred are required for medical reasons. They also just happen to be a perfect window into how the inflammation is being resolved. Usually a vet will call for either the backing off or a full stop of the pain-masking pain meds (tramadol, neurontin, methocarbamol). This way you will be able to quickly and accurately assess for any unmasked pain revealing itself. No pain the taper goes to completion. Pain would be reported to the vet and another course of Pred, pain meds and Pepcid AC would be prescribed. Let us know which your vet wants, backing off or full stop of pain meds with the tomorrow further taper.
With the holiday weekend coming where the vet is closed, you would want a plan B worked out with your vet on having enough pills to tide you over til he opens again and what prescription would you follow. If pain would surface at night or on the weekend an ER trip would be expensive. A plan B is free. Let us know what the plan B is.
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 15, 2017 7:46:06 GMT -7
Toni is doing great and still has plenty of pain meds. I make sure of that. He was prescribed 30 prednisone, so I wasn't sure if I should continue giving those until they're gone. Since he starts the taper acfer today, he would be on the remainder for quite some time
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 15, 2017 8:21:18 GMT -7
When Pred was prescribed you wrote: he went ahead and prescribed prednisone 5mg, taken 1 tablet (5mgs) once a day for 4 days, then 1 tablet (5mgs) every other day.
The bottle should indicate for how many days the 5mgs every other day is to be given. Often it will be for 3 or 5 days. However, if the info is not on the bottle, you do need to call the vet and get specific instructions for Toni's body onhow many days to do the every other day dose. This is the dose that signals the body to start making its own life regulating steroid hormone again.
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 15, 2017 9:46:15 GMT -7
It doesn't say on the bottle, so I will have to call
I just noticed on the bottle that it says until finished. That would be almost 2 months. I will definitely call and clarify
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 19, 2017 10:26:59 GMT -7
Toni had his first laser therapy today and did really well. The vet wants us to stop giving the tramadol and methocarbomol, and taper down the gabapentin to half a capsule twice a day. He wants us to continue giving the prednisone every other day until gone. Next laser treatment is on Friday. Toni is starting to whine in his crate and wants to get out. It's really hard to stay tough. Also, when we come home, he and Nathan get really excited and I worry that he'll hurt himself.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 19, 2017 11:55:34 GMT -7
Hi Charlotte, When you come home, calmly greet both dogs and give them quiet attention first. We had to do that with Tyler as he gets very excited when we get home too.. Once we have greeted him and spent a little time with him he calmed down. Another way to calm Toni is to cover his crate with a light blanket.. It creates a den-like effect that soothes dogs.. Here are some tips that will hopefully help: dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm#Emergencyconfinement
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 19, 2017 13:09:07 GMT -7
Thanks Pauliana, the problem is Nathan, and it carries over to Toni. I have tried the calm approach and also ignoring and waiting till they calm down. However, Nathan just doesn't calm down and yelps, barks and jumps up for several minutes. This gets Toni going, thankfully not quite as over the top as Nathan. I am worried that Nathan could get hurt as well. I will try putting a blanket over their crates and hope that they won't get upset, because they won't be able to see each other.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 19, 2017 15:13:57 GMT -7
Try draping one blanket over both crates so they can see each other.. Or just putting the blankets on top and not on the sides of the crates so they can keep each other company..
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 19, 2017 16:47:53 GMT -7
Thank you Pauliana. I will try that
Is there anything I can do to keep Toni entertained while he is in his crate. He is getting really antsy. I guess chew toys are a no no
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 19, 2017 20:56:40 GMT -7
Chew toys are ok for Toni since he isn't having a neck disc episode, as long as he doesn't get too rambunctious.. Fill a kong with a slight slather of soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium homemade broth ice cube. Note: store bought broth usually contains onions and onions are toxic to dogs Entertainment Place the crates near a window with a view, on the coffee table in front of couch where you sit. Place the crate so the dog will be in the middle of family activities, near your bed at night. Secure crate to a flat moving dolly (or put casters on plywood) to easily move the crate room to room. _ Music Hours of Relaxation Music for Dogs Great for people too! Here's the playlist for all 70+ "tunes" : ; 10 hours of calming rain sounds: Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working -- it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/Use a diffusor with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Bach's Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation bachflowerpets.com/rescue-remedy-pets/
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 24, 2017 7:20:58 GMT -7
Toni is doing great, but I noticed one thing. After he poops, he stretches his back a little bit, which he didn't do before. Is this normal, or does the position he's in when he poops, maybe hurt his back.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 24, 2017 8:30:58 GMT -7
Charlotte, sounds like if his can stretch that is because he is not in pain and it must feel good.
Just to be certain when identifying pain, observe for two or more confirming signs: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can’t find a comfortable position, Arched back, pinned back ears. Holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky interested in life selves. Never have any patience at all with pain.
Let us and your vet know if you believe he is in pain after pooping.
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 24, 2017 10:02:55 GMT -7
He doesn't show any of these symptoms. I just wondered if it bothers him at the time, since he has to arch his back. It looks like he is straightening his back afterward. I will ask tomorrow when he goes for his laser therapy. He will also have an acupuncture session next week. They are very pleased with his progress
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on Apr 30, 2017 12:30:22 GMT -7
My Toni is off Tramadol as of yesterday morning. He doesn't seem in any pain, but last night he woke me up and had diarrhea. Could this be from his coming off the tramadol?
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 30, 2017 20:35:30 GMT -7
Hi Charlotte!
Tramadol is constipating and doesn't usually cause diarrhea.. Normally it is the Pred that causes diarrhea. Is Toni still on Famotidine 5mg 30 minutes prior to the Pred and again 12 hours later? Please do let the Vet know about the diarrhea as that can be a sign of GI tract damage.. The Vet can Rx Sucralfate to heal the damage.
A change in food can also cause diarrhea.. Has there been any changes in his diet lately?
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on May 1, 2017 14:57:44 GMT -7
There have not been any changes in his diet, in fact, he eats hill's id for gastrointestinal health. I took him to the vet this morning, because he also threw up last night. The vet said it's most likely caused by the prednisone. She prescribed sucralfate 1gm, 1/2 tablet,every 12 hours, one hour before /after meals or medications. He also was prescribed endosorb [activated mineral clay],1/2 tablet every 4 hours until diarrhea is resolved. If the diarrhea doesn't resolve within 24 hours, I am to let the vet know. I have been giving Toni famotidine until now, but the vet said the sucralfate is stronger.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2017 15:24:00 GMT -7
Charlotte, then Toni is still on a taper dose of pred going on since Apr 15?? Prednisone as of 4/11: taper dose 5mgs 1x/day for 4 days, then more tapering. What is the current dose of pred and how often are you giving it? What is the date for the final dose of pred? Sucralfate is not more powerful it works in a totally different way than the acid suppressor Pepcid AC. Would be good to read up on sucralfate as you would for all meds: marvistavet.com/sucralfate.pmlDo you still give Pepcid AC if he is still on pred?
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on May 1, 2017 15:45:36 GMT -7
I was told to give the sucralfate in place of the famotidine. He is still on prednisone, 1 tablet every other day, until gone. He had originally 30 tablets.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2017 16:00:57 GMT -7
Charlotte, if the every other day dose has been going on for more than a week, now, please very strongly advocate for pred to stop since Toni is having GI problems. Often the every other day is for three or 5 days, then a stop.
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Post by Charlotte & Toni on May 1, 2017 16:20:00 GMT -7
Would there be a complete stop after 3-5 days or would you taper more?
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2017 18:17:05 GMT -7
Charlotte, it is a vet's duty that comes with his degree and license of "DVM" to practice veterinary medicine to give you the exact way to taper off. It is your job to advocate about going off pred since the GI tract problems have developed. See if you can get a call into the vet in the a.m. and let us know what he is prescribing to get off pred the quickest. The time on pred, the animal's health all need to be taken into consideration in designing the correct taper schedule that a vet has been trained to do.
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