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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 15, 2013 8:50:27 GMT -7
My dog Nala has been fighting IVDD for 6 years. She had fenestration and heminilectomy surgery 5 years ago and has had numerous episodes since. A week ago she went down. Back legs are gone and bladder is gone. Surgery is not financially possible again. She is 9. She is taking neurontin, tramadol, and methocarbomal 3 times a day and her pain is under control. She is crated. She has been taking prednisone 5mg twice a day for 4 days with no results. Along with pepcid. The vet upped it to 1 1/2 pills twice a day. After three doses she started panting and shaking. Now she is tapering off the pred. and there has been no improvement. Finances are very tight. Do I get accupuncture or laser now/later? Will it do any good at this point? Do I exercise her legs? I don't know what to do. Will she ever walk again or do I accept this as a new normal?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 15, 2013 9:19:05 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Paula what is yours? First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for Nala to get back to enjoying life after recovering. What can make a great deal of difference is your own self education. Knowledge is the best defense in fighting and winning with this disease. Please do go to our main web page and read, read and re-read. A very quick way to get up to speed on meds, how healing happens and when for each of the phases is the "Overview: the essentials" button. Then work your way through the rest of the buttons to complete your education. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmWe can best help you help Nala when you paint a complete picture of her situation. Can you fill us in on these very important details: --What breed is your dog? -- Are you doing the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe from other pets and kids from bothering them. details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. -- Is there specifically now any shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? -- Currently can your wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk to her or she anticipates getting a treat? -- How are you doing with expressing her bladder. While on pred you will likely need to express every 2-3 hours to keep her dry. Let us know if she is staying dry. Great tips and video on expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm-- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color firmness no dark or bright red blood? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 15, 2013 9:19:36 GMT -7
Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.htmlwww.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is never recommended for IVDD dogs. |
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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 15, 2013 9:54:24 GMT -7
My name is Julie. Nala is a shih-tzu. I admit she is sleeping with me. She cries all night and is agitated otherwise. Just to keep her in her crate otherwise I have to sedate her. I have tried and tried. Bought the calming pherome plug in ect. I've tried putting her crate on the bed Expressing her is something I need to get better at. I basically found a spot on her tummy and press it while holding her and she goes. Just today she started getting picky about eating. I had to make her an egg so she would eat before taking her pain med's. Poops are a little runny from the prednisone I think. Money is very tight. If I could do one or the other what would do the most good accupunture or laser and when should I start, now or later? Do I wait until Nala is off all med's to do massage and exercise on her back legs? I'm confused.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 15, 2013 10:17:34 GMT -7
Julie, if it requires taking the edge of her by using something stronger then so be it. Your vet can prescribe an Rx sedative. Right now the critical care is to preserve the early healing disc from re-tearing and doing severe damage to the spinal cord beyond what her body can self repair. Often the pheromone works best when in combo of any one of these oral calmers: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com I would immediately get in contact via phone and let the vet know about the not eating and the loose stools. Now is the time to take action with these classic signs of GI problems associated with Pred. Ask for sucralfate to be added to the Pepcid AC. You will need to read up on the timing when using other meds and Pepcid AC with sucralfate: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlWhere exactly is she in the taper.... how many mgs and the dosing frequency? Your holistic vet will access Nala and discuss which (laser or acupuncture) would be best. Either can be started as soon as possible to help kick start nerves to regenerate. Until Nala can move her legs on her own you need to keep her joints flexible and muscle circulation up for her. Only do the information highlighted in PINK and in red numbers as they are the very least aggressive and lightest of therapies to protect the spinal cord and the early healing disc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm |
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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 15, 2013 10:23:30 GMT -7
Nala is on day two of one 5mg tablet of ▼prednisone. She has two more days of this then every other day for four days.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 16, 2013 16:37:41 GMT -7
Hi there, my name is Lisa, just chiming in. If I had to choose between acupuncture or laser light therapy for a dog that has lost bladder control, I would hands-down choose acupuncture. I believe it really helped my dog regain his bladder control more quickly. Ask for ELECTRIC acupuncture, as it is stronger than regular acupuncture. Also, ask the vet acupuncturist if they can give B12 (methylcobalamin) injections. That is the form of B12 that targets the nerves. Keep in mind, too, that many vet acupuncturists also perform laser during the same session as acupuncture; at least my vet does. You can ask your vet for a referral to a vet that does acupuncture, or you can search for one here: www.holisticvetlist.com/ Best of luck. ~Lisa |
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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 18, 2013 7:20:05 GMT -7
Hi, it's Julie about Nala again. She has started not wanting to eat off and even her favorite things are not interesting. I got carfate from the vet Mon. and have been giving it to her but it doesn't seem to be helping. Also, she hasn't pooped since Mon. evening and she hasn't had bowel control for the last five years. I wonder if I'm being selfish making Nala keep going through this. She is miserable and I don't know what to do. I feel so bad I can't afford to do another surgery or to get her right into accupuncture/laser therapy. My stomach is in knots and I can't sleep.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 18, 2013 8:12:50 GMT -7
Julie just to let you know why... we have moved your posts to the "Conservative Treatment" board so we will have all of Nala's posts in one place.
Are you giving Carafate (Sucralfate) on an empty tummy 1 hour before feeding or 2 hours after feeding?
Are you giving Pepcid AC 30 minutes after Carafate?
30 minutes after Pepcid AC are you then giving the tapering dose of Prednisone with a meal/food?
How are her poops, back to normal firmness?
When anyone is sick, what we do is help them to recover and get back to doing what they love...same goes for Nala...she is 9 years young and has lots of living yet to do.
Now can you fill us in on any signs of pain you might be seeing on the taper off of pred. Specifically are you see any of these: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move, tight hard tummy?
Often it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. On the taper the dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 18, 2013 9:40:33 GMT -7
Yes to the carafate and pepcid timing. She hasn't pooped in two days. That worries me as she doesn't have bowel control. She never regained it after her surgery 5 years ago. The prednisone had been at the anti-inflammatory dose for 8 days. Only improvement is some tail wagging. However, Nala keeps having episodes of panting and hiccup/shaking from the prednisone. She can't sleep at night when this happens and neither can I. We went to the vet Mon. about this problem and the lack of appetite. That's when Nala started the carfate. The vet recommended Nala stay on the prednisone since she got her tail wag back but the side-effects are bad. I'm afraid to even give her one dose today. The panting and shaking are awful to see and as I said neither of us get any sleep. Also, she has always loved food and now even the big favorites like egg or turkey are "forget about it." She has been taking tramadol 25mg, and neurontin 100mg, three times a day for pain well before this episode started. I've added methcarbomal 3x for muscle spasms, and acepromazine 10mg as needed to keep Nala in her crate. I don't know what to do. Also, is there any financial help available for accupunture/laser therapy? I already owe care credit for seeing a neurologist last year and I work two jobs to barely scrape by. Any clinical trials in Michigan that anyone know of? I found one but they can only have been down 24 hrs.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 18, 2013 10:01:56 GMT -7
Julie, the panting can be a temporary side effect of Prednisone. You can place a fan near her recovery suite but not pointed at her to give a bit of circulation of the air...that should help with the panting.
Not pooping can also be caused by Tramadol and carafate. Are you adding extra water and high fiber to help with constipation. High fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato.
Let us know if you are specifically seeing tail movement do to your doing some happy talk to her or her seeing a treat approach. That would be a sign that messages are getting though to the tail from the brain...a very good nerve function to be returning.
On the taper of Pred. is the time to observe for pain. If you are seeing shaking that could well be a sign of pain showing not all the swelling is gone. It can take 1-2 weeks or even more like a month for Pred to resolve all swelling. Put on your detective hat... is there other evidence to prove Nala is still painful due to swelling? Is her tummy tight, does she shake after movement, does she show signs of pain nearing the next dose of the pain medications? If you are observing signs of pain, then communicating this information right away is necessary. It may take being on Pred a bit longer before the start of the taper again will take care of all the swelling. Let us know.
Do know we all have to live within our budgets. The single most important care you can give is the 100% STRICT crate rest part.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jun 3, 2013 9:50:36 GMT -7
My Nala just finished crate rest for another herniated disc and her back legs aren't working very well. She is pushing part of the way up and dragging the front of her back paws. She has a small sore that I am treating now from dragging. I am looking for a wheelchair but even when I find one she will still need protection indoors out of the chair. She is a 9 year old shih-tzu. I am looking for a recommendation for dog boots. Thanks, Julie |
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Post by Linda Stowe on Jun 3, 2013 12:23:51 GMT -7
Barbara Techel posted not long ago on our Facebook page regarding some homemade boots she does for her cart dog Joie. |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jun 3, 2013 17:50:29 GMT -7
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 30, 2013 13:44:49 GMT -7
My dog Nala is 10 and has battled IVDD for 7 years. She had surgery 6 years ago and rehab and regained use of her back legs that were completely paralyzed. 8 months ago she went down again and I could not afford another surgery. She was on steroids for a month. The vet said she had no deep pain sensation. However, over the course of 6 months she has again regained use of her hind legs. So conservative treatment works also. Never give up on your dog as long as they want to keep trying!! Julie and Nala
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 30, 2013 20:36:10 GMT -7
Thank you for sharing Nala's very encouraging story, Julie. Yes, there is always hope for IVDD dogs. Nerves can take a long time to heal but they can heal. We appreciate your writing to let others know that there is hope, both with surgery and with conservative care, for dogs to regain the ability to walk again.
All the best to you and Nala. I'm so glad that she's doing so well.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Dec 17, 2014 10:40:31 GMT -7
My dog Nala is a 9 year old shih-tzu with IVDD. She has had both surgery and conservative treatment. Nala was completely paralyzed in her back legs 2x but walks today. She continues to take pain medication 3x a day and doesn't have bowel/bladder control. However, I have learned how to express over the potty and it is easier than taking my other dog outside! She is happy and has a great life. Playing with her toys, going for walks, and laying in her heated bed. She hasn't had an episode in over a year! I think what has helped is really getting serious about not letting her jump. Ever! There is hope if your dog is in a crisis. Peope around me asked me when Nala was not doing well if it was fair to her. My reply was, "As long as she wants to fight I'll support her." So glad I stuck to my guns. Julie and Nala
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 17, 2014 11:03:57 GMT -7
Julie thanks for the update.
What are the names of the pain meds 3x/day? Dose in mgs?
Has she been on them since the last episode in Apr 2013? Just concerning why the pain meds if there is not disc episode. Are the pain meds for arthritis?
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Post by Julie & Perry on Dec 18, 2014 8:27:10 GMT -7
Nala takes
50mg of Tramadol and
100 mg of Gabapentin 3x a day for arthritis pain and nerve damage from her IVDD episodes. I tried tapering off several times but the pain always came back so her vet recommended leaving her on them.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 18, 2014 11:19:31 GMT -7
Julie, thank you for explaining the pain meds. I think it a good idea as you have in the past to test if the meds are still needed or maybe can be used at a lower dose to control pain.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Oct 16, 2015 8:12:20 GMT -7
My Nala is 10 and has been identified with IVDD for 7 years. She has had surgery and conservative rest. Nala's back legs were completely paralyzed 2x. She has been stable for the last several years. No episodes!! However occasionally one of her back legs will shake all over. She doesn't look like she's is in pain and it passes quickly. Is this because her muscles are weaker now or she's tired? Julie
How do I post a success story? Also how do I post a picture of my dog from my phone to this. Very technically challenged. Thanks. Julie
And I have a picture on facebook. Any idea how to put it on my profile here?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 16, 2015 8:31:11 GMT -7
Hi Julie, it would be hard for us to say the reason for the back legs shaking. If you can take a video and next time you are at the vet let him see, he may be able to give you and idea. The important clues for there being a disc episode are these signs of pain and when severe signs of nerve damage:  If you give us your facebook page we can help you get a photo of Nala up if these steps do not work for you. Go to PROFILE to change from the default avatar to one of Nala. Profile > Edit Profile> Avatar> Use only the uploaded.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 18, 2016 8:15:18 GMT -7
My Nala has been through many disc episodes and has been treated with surgery and conservative treatment. I have wanted to post in success stories for some time but am not tech savvy at all. How do I post for that and how do I send a picture from a smart phone to that post of my Nala? Thanks. Julie and Nala
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 18, 2016 9:58:20 GMT -7
Julie, we would LOVE to have an update from you about what Nala is currently doing. Just post it right here in this thread. Send your photo of Nala with a 1-2 sentence caption to: photogallery@dodgerslist.com
What is the name of your facebook page so we can find a photo of Nala for your profile here on the Forum? |
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 19, 2016 12:39:47 GMT -7
Nala has been fighting IVDD for 7 years and is now 10. She had surgery/fenestration at 3. Numerous episodes of conservative treatment. Back legs paralyzed 2x. She is walking today and even running. Nala loves her treats, walks, and snuggling in bed. She lost bowel/bladder control which never came back but I've learned how to deal with it. For all the times I wondered if I was being fair to her by continuing on I'm so glad that I did. Thanks for all of the great information I got from dodgers list. It was a godsend in helping me and Nala. Its amazing how ignorant even many vets are about IVDD. No episodes in 2 years!! I got very serious about no jumping and adapted my home. Also, got another dog that keeps Nala on her toes. She eats better and works hard to walk faster than he does!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 19, 2016 20:43:28 GMT -7
Julie, what wonderful care you give Nala. I agree with you expressing is really no big deal. Everyone just adjusts and you have a new normal! It makes us very happy to know what you learned from Dodgerslist has helped support you and Nala to enjoy many happy years together!
What's your facebook page? Would love to see Nala!
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Post by Julie & Perry on May 10, 2016 7:03:57 GMT -7
I'm curious. My dog Nala is 11 and has been paralyzed in her back legs 2x. She has come back from both of these and walks but never regained bowel/bladder control. Anyone else have this occur? She had both surgery and numerous conservative treatments. After her surgery when she was 3 and had her first major episode the control just never came back. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on May 10, 2016 11:20:17 GMT -7
Julie, there have been a few other dogs like Nala, who did not follow the classic textbook order of nerve recovery. The good news is that you have not reported any more disc problems since graduating June 2013! You are doing a good job in caring and living with your IVDD Nala. Congratulations! What's your facebook page? Would love to see Nala! Would just LOVE to have her picture in our Gallery. She's a success story, living the life and loving it. Pure inspiration and hope for other life goes on despite IVDD! How about a picture and a few sentences for the 2016 Dodgerslist PhotoGallery: LOGIN www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/ : OR you can emails the JPG to: Email to: photogallery@dodgerslist.com |
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Post by Julie & Perry on May 13, 2016 6:38:30 GMT -7
Paula, I think I finally did it! Sent a picture of Nala to photogallery. I'm not tech savvy but I am stubborn. Here's hoping!!  Julie and Nala Nala is stubborn,feisty, funny, and loving. She enjoys walks, treats, and snuggling under the covers. ----- May 11 post: I tried to post to the photogallery but it said the password was wrong. Also, my facebook page is under Julie Cox. I have a really cute picture of Nala under the covers. Thanks for the answer. She is doing well and I'm thrilled! Did you hear about the dog Genie that was abandoned on the Tampa Bay Humane Society's doorstep as she is paralyzed from a calcified disc? So sad! |
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Julie and Nala