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Post by Susan & Sirius on Nov 15, 2016 14:03:55 GMT -7
Sirius Black is red, 5 yo male, mini, LH from Ft. Worth, TX. I haven't seen a specific dx in print but vet verbalized a herniated disc in his waist area. We are under the care of a general vet. We will be going Monday, 11/21, for an eval w/a pain management vet. I began to see the signs the weekend of 11/5 but didn't realize they indicated a disc issue. I thought maybe he'd hurt his shoulder. I left Monday, 11/7, to help take care of ailing parents in TN. I received a frantic call from my 17 yo daughter Thursday that he'd gotten much worse and was just sitting in the middle of the floor panting & shaking, when she returned home from school. Since I'd witnessed him throwing up Saturday & I'd recently met a woman whose Dachsie had had Lepto, I had it in my mind that Sirius did as well. He can't receive that vaccine, we do live in the country, & both conditions present very commonly. She rushed him to a vet we've used in the past & he dx a herniated disc & sent him home w/meds & crate rest. This was a mistake, especially since i was not home. My daughter tried & my husband handle him wrong by accident....needless to say, he was worse the next day so back to the vet w/my Mother In Law in tow. She relayed that surgery was not an option for us financially & that i would be back in town the next day to see him & talk options. He received better care during the critical time than here at our crazy, loud house. So, he really began his most intensive crate confinement on friday, 11/10. I saw him Saturday afternoon & he had improved some. Yea! He had maintained his DPR (Deep Pain Response), ate some, urinated when placed in grass, & wagged his tail for the first time. We talked about noninvasive options; the female vet was in support of this but knew of nowhere to refer us. I requested he stay at the vet until Monday intense monitoring/rest & they happily obliged; they even sent me texts Sat nt/Sunday about his status. So yesterday, 11/14, i went to pick him up & praise the Lord, he was a little better! They reported him standing (wobbly of course) on all 4's in the cage, eating/drinking/peeing/pooping, looking perkier, & holding his green ball in his mouth. Woohoo! So i brought him home yesterday & he's done well. Today, he's tried "walk" a bit during pottie breaks. His pain seems to be improved. Last night i did notice his pain seemed increase as it grew closer to take his final pain med dosage for the day. He weighed 11.7 lbs on Saturday. Meds: * Methocarbamol:1/4 500 mg tablet; will complete Wednesday a.m. * Prednisolone: as of 11/12: 5 mg [1x/day for 9 days], 1 tab q day thru friday; then on Sunday, 11/20, 7 last one Tuesday, 11/22* Tramadol: [12.5 mgs 3x/day] 1/4 50 mg tablet q 8 hours for pain Eating/drinking well; BM's look good. He began trying to wobbly walk today. He also tried to scratch his ear w/his back leg; it moved a smidge. He's been wagging his tail since saturday. He will sniff but he doesn't really appear to be "squatting" to pee. I can see on the ground when he has or feel when he's wet. He does appear to hunch a little to have a BM. No bed wetting/messes since this began.Last Friday, i was very distraught because i was leaving my dad sitting in the ER, waiting for a room & because my sweet little dog might need to be put down....so, waiting for my flight in Chattanooga i left messages for a couple Dachsund rescue organizations thinking that if nothing else maybe they could point me to some options. I was so excited to hear from one yesterday, referring me to a pain management vet an hour away from me in Lewisville. He offers many modalities to help animals, physical therapy, & conditioning as well. He goes monday for an evaluation! Im feeling really blessed & grateful right now when just a few days ago i was feeling quite hopeless for my little man! Susan:)
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Post by John & Marley on Nov 15, 2016 14:17:50 GMT -7
Be Patient, it can be quite overwhelming. I know with my meds for Marley I adjusted them to a shorter window cause I noticed his pain coming back, Vet OK'd It varies from dog to dog , not written in stone. I was able to work from home so was able to give pain meds ( Tramadol + Gabapentin ) at different intervals so they would over lap. I also one time carried him wrong and twisted his spine making him shake in pain for two hrs in the middle of the night - then I started carrying him like they suggest in Dodgers.
I also cut back on my dogs food since he wasnt doing daily walks and was inactive being on STRICT CRATE REST. This also lessened his need to go daily to POO and less strain on his back when bent over... There is a WEALTH of INFO on this board, I learned alot and that Info made life easier and recovery 100% for my Marley.
Dont take short cuts , Dont rush recovery, even if your dog looks OK after 5 or 6 weeks DO THE FULL 8 weeks I personally did 10 Weeks with my dog.
Best Of Luck.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 15, 2016 15:32:00 GMT -7
Hi Susan and welcome to Dodgerslist. Everyone here has a dog with IVDD so we know what you are going through. I am glad that you are no longer feeling hopeless because it IS in the cards for Sirius to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking during the short 8 weeks of conservative treatment it will take a disc to heal or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm . I am concerned that you are seeing signs of pain. When the pain meds re right, pain should be in control dose to dose. You should let your vet know that your dog is in pain right away. There is a lot the vet can do to control pain. We have found that it is often necessary to have three pain meds on board each attacking pain differently to fully control pain: Methocarbamol for the painful muscle contractions. Tramadol Rx'd 3x/day as the general pain releiver Gabapentin for nerve pain also Rx'd 3x/day. You could advocate for the addition of Gabapentin and Methocarbamol 3X a day. Also 12.5mgs is a low dose of tramadol for an 11.7 lb dog. Your vet has room to increase the dose. Plumb's is the veterinary bible regarding drugs: 'Tramadol dosing in dogs varies, ranging from 2 to 5 mg/kg every 8-12 hours. The highest dose for maximum analgesic effect in dogs is 10 mg/kg every 8 hours.' “Tramadol”. Plumb DC. In Plumb DC (ed): Plumb’s Veterinary Drug Handbook, 7th ed—Ames: Wiley-Blackwell, 2011, pp 1002-1004 The dose of 5mg of pred 1X a day is below the anti-inflammatory dose. Was the pred always at this dose or was the dose decreased? It is important to do your own reading about meds so you can participate in discussions with the vet and be able to advocate on behalf of Sirius. We are not vets and do not know the specifics of each dog's health. We are making these suggestion based on what we've seen qualified vets prescribe in the past and only as a basis for discussion with your vet. Let us know you are on the same page about crate rest. The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the crate rest part. With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. That 6 weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no dragging or meandering at potty times. Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg It is important that Sirius be given a stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving doxie weight dogs 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. Is Sirius eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? Dogs on conservative treatment crate rest who are not paralyzed are able to move around a bit in the crate and at potty time to keep their joints and muscles toned. No additional physical therapy should be given at this point. When our dogs are diagnosed with IVDD it is very scary. It becomes less scary when we lean all we can about the disease. An excellent page to start with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmJohn is right. IVDD is definitely a disease of patience. Healing thoughts for Sirius.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,561
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 15, 2016 18:46:23 GMT -7
Susan, Romy has laid out much good information on pain and med and how important it is to do proper STRICT crate rest. I would add that waiting til Monday is not a good idea, it is too long to leave a dog in pain and not necessary if you can present a good case why the vet needs to adjust pain meds over the phone. Pain not only is misery, but it actually hinders the healing process. When the meds are correct, pain would be in control in one hour and would stay that way right up to the next dose. See what you can do to call your vet first thing in the am. and strongly advocate for the following. TRAMADOL: 12.5mgs (1/4 tab)is a very light dose, almost like not giving it. See if the vet can move it up to a whole 50mg tab 3x/day. METHOCARBAMOL How often ARE you giving it. Advocate for the 125mgs being Rx'd every 8 hours (3x/day) Why is this pain med being stopped when Prednisone is still on board working on painful swelling til the taper begins on Sunday 11/20? GABAPENTIN This med is often added to the pain med combo as it addresses nerve pain. PREDNISONE This anti-inflammatory must be tapered as it is a hormone the body produces but not high enough for getting spinal cord swelling down during a disc episode. The taper is also a test for pain. So if there is pain there would not be a taper but another course. Pain meds are not stopped nor tapered until the test for pain prednisone taper. You will want a full understanding of this hormone as it is used with IVDD so that you can best advocate for Sirius and ask pertinent questions. How prednisone works: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm Prednisolone: as of 11/12: 5 mg 1x/day for 9 days then taper. PEPCID AC Stress and anti-inflammatory meds cause extra acids. Sirus doesn't need another problem on top of all he is dealing with. Verify in this very particular way... does Sirus have any health issue to prevent use of Pepcid AC. If there are no issues, get Pepcid AC (famotidine) at the grocery store. 5mgs 2x/day. TRANSPORT During conservative treatment transport should be limited to only the necessary vet visits. Always see if things like reporting observations of pain can be done via phone with vet advising of adjustments. Sometime a vet really does need to see your dog. Reduce the risk of transport by padding out the crate with a rolled up blanket so that when you take a corner or come to a stop his back/neck will not shift. The whole focus of conservative treatment is limited movement of the vertebrae so they do not disrupt scar tissue trying to form.
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