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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 2, 2016 5:32:49 GMT -7
Hi everyone sorry I did not respond earlier was tried from the day. Oscar rested last night, he continues to eat well. Let me clarify the about the meds. He has been taking the pred at 5mgs X 2 for the past seven days. Today is the 7th day at the higher dose. Doc wrote a new script for 7 more days at ▼ 2.5 X 2 then 2.5 every other day for 7 more days then finish meds 2.5 every other day.
[12 lbs Prednisone 5mg tab: of 10/26: 5mg 2x/day for 7 days, then ▼taper Gabapentin 60mgs 3x/day Tramadol 25 mg 3/x/day Diazepam 5mgs 3x/day Robaxin 125mgs 3x/day STOPPED 11/1 Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day Prilosec 20mg 1x/day]
Depending on how he does then we will also start taper of some of the pain meds, but not yet. He went out to pee and poop this morning. He walks backwards to get into position to poop and then he peeps. By sqauting. He was more steady on his feet this morning, but I used the scarf to make sure he did not fall over.. Need to fill all of his meds today. He is resting this morning in the crate well keeping fingers crossed all goes well, and pain does not resurface.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 2, 2016 7:32:43 GMT -7
Hang in there! You can do it and so can Oscar😇
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 3, 2016 6:03:52 GMT -7
Hi everyone Today I am going to try the ▼ [Pred] 2.5 X 2 for the next seven days. He's still eating well. The last couple of days we have taken away the Robxin to see if he was not so wobbly on his feet. He does stand steadier now but I have a scarf when he moves forward. He seems to have trouble hunching to poop. He starts walking backwards until he can get in to that position. He seems really uncomfortable after he poops. He's very calm this morning and was seemed a little more alter when I came home last night. Hoping that he doesn't get worse by tapering the pred. Does this prolong his recovery? If we keeping going up and down with pain?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,608
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 3, 2016 8:34:48 GMT -7
Mary, naturally any days that are the taper days would no longer work of spinal cord swelling. So when on the pred taper you do want to be observant for signs of pain. Alerting your vet about pain, lets him prescribe another anti-inflamamotry level of Pred for a bit longer then try for another test for pain taper.
Remember observing two or more signs of pain helps to confirm pain. Some things like panting can be pain or can be med caused. Signs of pain: - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can't find a comfortable position, Arched back. Holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky selves
What specific signs of pain are you observing that makes you believe he is uncomfortable after pooping?
What is the name of your vet who is helping you with prednisone and other meds?
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 3, 2016 10:54:41 GMT -7
Hi Paula I did not start taper yet. I was but did not feel comfortable so i am waiting. My vet is Simon Kornburg . I just see his back half getting weaker and not better. It still seems to me that he is regressing with his movement. When I go to carry him out he groans when i carry him. He rest most of the time in the crate but sometimes he just stairs in outer space. I am trying to have patients but this is so stressful and scary. If he goes down over the weekend it's even more expensive.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 3, 2016 13:21:35 GMT -7
It is very scary and stressful when our dogs have IVDD and it is very hard to see the dog we love in pain. You are doing everything you can to help him.
If carrying him to potty is causing him pain, let the vet know so a change in meds can be made. In the meantime perhaps you could use a pee pad close to his crate as a potty place. Is he showing signs of pain at other times or just when you are carrying him to potty?
Just to make sure we have it right, he is still on 5mg of pred 2X a day?
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 3, 2016 14:27:18 GMT -7
Yes still on Pred 5x2. They are calling in Amantadine not sure of the dosage but I won't be able to get it until Sat pharmacy had to order it. The only other time he seem uncomfortable is when he try's to hunch over and poop it seems to be difficult but he doesn't cry out or anything. He rested most of the day today. why is it that some dogs just go paralyzed and other slowly regress over time. Is this because of the disk material pressing on the cord? I feel like I have been on top of this from the beginning and try to be proactive. I am so stressed about what might happen next and weather he can continue like this I am exhausted. If it is pain and he continues to regress neurologically, surgery may be the only option.....
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 3, 2016 14:55:19 GMT -7
I'm sorry Oscar's in pain. That's so hard. Keep working with your vet. Try writing down when you notice pain: times, what Oscar is doing ect. It can be so frustrating. He knows you love him and are doing your best.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 3, 2016 14:56:12 GMT -7
Amantadine in addition to the tramadol may help manage Oscar's pain. Managing his pain is crucial and vets have many options for doing this. One option would be to increase the dosage of tramadol. I know that you have already spoken to the vet about this and he is reluctant to increase it, but Saturday is a long time for Oscar to have pain and an increase in tramadol may be all that is needed.
Regressing neurologically is definitely a concern. If surgery is not an option, some vets would want to try a different steroid. Some steroids are stronger than others. Use of a stronger steroid is considered when surgery is not an option and it might be able to get the swelling down faster. Dexamethasone is a more powerful steroid, 10x more powerful than prednisone.
Speak to your vet about your concern that Oscar is losing neuro function and what option are available besides surgery.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 3, 2016 16:30:18 GMT -7
He is Very wobbly stage and can stand on back end his left side seem weaker and legs seems to be giving out. He pooped and peeped but it wasn't pretty. Still walking backwards to poop and then takes a few steps forward and then peeps. I put him back in crate and he just lies down. He did not complain but every time he poops it seems exhausting for him. All these things lead me to believe he's going to need another surgery. Not sure if i want to play with my odds over the weekend... Very worried, and not sure what to do. Talk to them today, told me to call back if he worsen. he does not seem to be able to push up his back legs in crate. I read when surgery may have to be consider and Oscar seems to fall into all of these categories. We are at 3 inhalf weeks and no I have not good changes. what if he continue down this road of crate rest and he looses all of his function? If I do surgery there is no way to know if he will recovery either and no way to know what is ok and if I wait through the weekend he could go into crisis and cost even more money.... i really hate this disease! I really feel helpless!
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 3, 2016 21:56:38 GMT -7
Hi Mary,
As Romy said, Saturday is a long time to wait while he is in pain.. Ask if perhaps if trying Dexmethasone instead of Prednisone might help get his swelling down faster. It is 10 times more powerful. An adjustment to Tramadol may help too while waiting for the other drug to be ready..
If you are thinking surgery it would be better to do it sooner rather than later.. Discuss with your Vet what the best option would be.. Surgery or trying Dex to stop the regression of neuro functions? You aren't helpless! It may feel that way, but really you are the one with the power to advocate and make decisions for Oscar. You are taking wonderful care of him under trying circumstances..
Comforting thoughts.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 4, 2016 3:26:36 GMT -7
Hi Thank you
he has been very restless through night. He did go out too pee but did not poop. He does try to move his legs forward when I have the scarf supporting him. He Seems like he want too poop but could not. My gut is tell me he is not getting better. He ate this morning and I am going to give his meds to him. I am going to call this morning to see if I can take over there. Very stressed I'll keep you posted.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 4, 2016 3:52:42 GMT -7
Mary, could constipation be causing some of Oscar's discomfort when pooping? Has his poop been normal or is it harder than usual? The meds are known for causing constipation. Pumpkin can help firm up stools OR it can help to loosen stools. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool, add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives for constipation: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato.
Of course, pain could be causing his reluctance to strain to poop, too. So a determination does need to be made by you and your vet as to whether there is still pain and whether neuro function has worsened.
Please let us know what the vet says after you speak to them this morning. Prayers are with you all as decisions are made.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 4, 2016 4:15:02 GMT -7
Mary, go with your gut feeling for Oscar. If you feel he's getting worse and needs surgery then go with that. I'm thinking about you both. You're such a good pet parent and Oscar knows how much you love him! Healing wishes and prayers.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 4, 2016 6:02:35 GMT -7
Hi there everyone, Julie thank you for your kind words I so need that this morning. I am exhausted,and very stressed. He did need to poop this morning it does not seem dry he went twice the second one was a little wetter than the 1st, but normal. He seem to be straining to poop. Almost like he can get it out. Could that also be Nuero function is getting Worse? Or just constipation? He was shaking when I picked him up and when I went to pet him this morning. His left leg is very weak and limper than right. But he can put them on the ground. I have an appointment at 11:30 with Nuero again. My gut is telling me this is just more than the swelling and that disc is really damaged. He is a very calm dog not your usual Doxie, and I worry he's too calm and is suffering. I am going to talk to the vet about the surgery path again and see if there is anything he can do to help us.. I am also hoping to discuss the othe options of steroids, and such. He has regressed week after week not improved and it will be 4 weeks is been in the crate. That's my concern is his pain, but he's not his normal self. I'm sure that has a lot to do with Meds and pain?
Then im also dealing with his axiety to go to the vet at all, so I know if I have to leave him his going to really be mad and scared! I have to give him calmer before we head out. Hopefully that helps.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,608
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 4, 2016 7:58:07 GMT -7
Let us know what the Neuro is thinking about where Oscar is in his neuro function and pain. Can you bring some of the poop to the Neuro for him to assess if it is too firm? From what you have written it appears to us he still has mild symptoms of maybe #2 in the list below. Weakness in the back left leg causing some unsteadiness, wobbly? Discuss IF Oscar is not wanting to place his full weight on his back left paw, IF, if this might be ROOT SIGNATURE pain. You can read more about that kind of pain here as well as a picture of what that looks like of holding the leg up like a flamingo: www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/rootsignature.htmAs damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle under 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. As long as Oscar is not in pain AND neuro diminishment is not increasing the least invasive treatment of conservative treatment can go forward. Shaking can be other than pain. So it is important to look for other confirming signs of pain. ---Shaking because of morning chilliness. Does a warm blanket from the dryer make him stop? ---Shaking because he fears your picking him up might cause pain....learned pain from before. ---Or actually pain because you are also seeing one of these other signs of pain: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can’t find a comfortable position, Arched back, pinned back ears. Holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky interested in life, food, and what going around him.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 5, 2016 20:05:34 GMT -7
Hello everyone, A lot has happened since yesterday. Oscar worsened throughout the morning he started having server pain and Nuero deminished to not being able to move. I rushed him to the Neuro, we made the desicision to fo MRI,and thank God I went with my Gut feeling to take him. Thanks Julie! Oscar had a servely enlarged disk so HUGE was the term the dr used he said he had never seen one so large in his career, and that Oscar,s pain would not have been able to get under control and that he would not have healed on conservative treatment. I was able to get some help from them because it was his second surgery. He is recovering and hope he will be home on Monday or Tuesday. The pain was the key here, and is what made me go with the surgery. I'll keep you posted on his recovery.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 5, 2016 21:33:50 GMT -7
Hi Mary. Sorry poor Oscar needed another surgery. But I'm glad he'll start to feel better now. You must be exhausted! Try to get some rest and take care of yourself. You know Oscar is in good hands. Healing prayers for Oscar.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 6, 2016 4:37:53 GMT -7
Hi, Mary. I'm sorry to hear that Oscar's condition worsened to the point where surgery was necessary but very relieved to know that he came through the surgery well. I hope he'll continue to do well and be home with you soon. Do get the rest that Julie recommended. Please keep us updated whenever you get a chance and let us know what meds are prescribed when he's discharged and what crate rest period and PT are recommended. Healing prayers for Oscar.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 7, 2016 6:21:14 GMT -7
Hi everyone Oscar came home yesterday afternoon. He is resting in his crate and peeing pooping and eating well. He seem comfortable meds are on board. The
[12 lbs Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day Gabapentin 60mgs 3x/day Tramadol 25 mg 3/x/day] pred has been tapered to 2.5 X 2 for five days it started on Nov5 and then goes to 2.5 X 1 then every other day. Diazepam is at 2.5 X 3 and he is also taking the sucralfate 1/2 tab 2hrs before meals.
He will have crate rest for 4-6 was he is using his back legs wobbly but using them he his weaker on his left side. The disk herniation was between T12-T13. It's was massive. Would have never healed. He is also still taking pedcid AC and tramadol and gabiptin all Sam dose. Thanks for your prayer and good thoughts.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,608
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 7, 2016 8:20:20 GMT -7
Mary, good news that the normal post op pain from the surgery itself is fully managed. Now Oscar can get on with the business of healing all that was involved with the surgery procedure in comfort! Let us know what your surgeon wants for at home PT. Sometimes that PT is just the walk to and from the potty place. When things settle down for you, would you consider helping another trying to make decisions… We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is the link to the directory: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting State: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments:
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 10, 2016 8:45:27 GMT -7
GM well today is six days post op he is moving his legs still wobbly when out to pee. I am a little concerned today because he seems more anxious and is whinying at times not sure if he uncomfortable or its just him wanting attention, but it seem to be that he is uncomfortable. We are suppose to start taper of pred today. He is eating and drinking. Peeing and pooping. Call surgeon. Is it normal to have pain at times after surgery?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,608
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 10, 2016 9:52:04 GMT -7
Mary both the surgeon and here on the Forum need specific observation details. Which signs of pain are you seeing? Are you seeing two or more signs of pain that best help to confirm pain. Sometimes a sign of pain can also be a side effect of a med for example. So that is why we say two or more signs of pain.
shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can’t find a comfortable position, Arched back, pinned back ears. Holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky interested in life selves.
Post op pain should be covered by pain meds. Often the painful post op pain would be subsiding at two weeks. So if you are identifying pain signs at 6 days, you do need to share that feedback with the vet for possible pain med adjustments. Let us know what he says
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 10, 2016 12:06:36 GMT -7
Just wanted to say hi and hope Oscar's doing well. Thinking of you both and wishing speedy recovery for Oscar.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 10, 2016 16:15:09 GMT -7
Hi Julie we are surviving, Oscar came home on Sunday, he is eating and resting well. He is peeing and pooping, but today he just seem very anxious at time, seem like he wants to be with us. But I'm concerned about if he's in pain at times. He's breathing heavy at times and Growns some when I pick him up. Going to see the neurologist tomorrow, I have had a really stressful couple of weeks car broke down on Friday too, then the AC at the house also went out. I am trying to do everything to make sure he is comfortable. Sometimes he's just so sad. I know this being his second surgery recovery could take longer, and I know he may be soar from surgery. I just worry about healing. I am not letting him take to many steps, he has staples in, but he is very alert when food is presented. Hoping I will be able to do laser after next week or two. How is Nala doing with treatments?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 10, 2016 16:52:01 GMT -7
I am sorry you have had such a stressful time in addition to Oscar's surgery. Sometimes things seem to just pile up.
I am concerned that Oscar is in pain. Groaning when picked up sounds like pain. Let the vet know about this when you see him tomorrow.
Although panting can be a sign of pain, the panting could be a side effect of the meds. Steroids and tramadol can sometimes cause panting. You can try these tips to help Oscar feel more comfortable. - Place a fan near the recovery suite but not pointed at him. You can also give him frozen broth ice cube to lick on.
Let us know what the neuro says when you see him tomorrow.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 10, 2016 17:11:33 GMT -7
Romy, hi thanks. It's not really panting its heavy breathing when he's lying on his side, and it's more like grunting when I carry him out. He pees and poops, he is wobbly on his feett, but he does let us know when he needs to go. Is it normal to have discomfort after surgery? Especially the second one. Really tired having to wake up every night to give meds., but just want him to recover well. Hoping he does not give me a hard time going back to vet tomorrow. They don't want me to give him a sedative, so they can get a true look at him.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 10, 2016 19:18:23 GMT -7
Nala's doing quite well so far. She stood up to drink her water the other day. I think the laser therapy is helping. Let me know what you find out at the vet's. Oscar needs to be comfortable to heal and it sounds like he could still be experiencing some pain. Sorry you're also having problems. It seems like when it rains it pours!! Try to take it one day at a time and make sure you eat and rest as well as taking care of Oscar.
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Post by Mary & Oscar on Nov 11, 2016 14:54:25 GMT -7
Hi everyone back from Drs. They felt Oscar is progressing well. I was able to take some videos of Oscar walking and explained about Oscar seeming to be in discomfort, and anxious. He was able to check him out fully and does not believe he is in pain, but may have a UTI. Also he is happy with his progress for the week with his movement. He wants Oscar to take a sedative to keep him calm durning the day. He gave him Trazodone 25 mgs X3 aday. He also proscribe a antibiotic X2 aday. I'll let you know the name later. Going to continue on all meds for now. We will go back on Nov 22 to remove staples. He will call next week to check on how he is doing. He is resting now.
[12 lbs Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day Gabapentin 60mgs 3x/day Tramadol 25 mg 3/x/day pred as of 11/5: has been tapered to 2.5 X 2 for 5 days , then every other day Diazepam is at 2.5 X 3 and he is also taking the sucralfate 1/2 tab 2hrs before meals. Trazodone 25 mgs 3x/day antibiotic name 2x/day]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 11, 2016 15:16:28 GMT -7
I am glad that Oscar got a good report from the neuro. Having a UTI may have been making Oscar feel uncomfortable. Trazadone should help relieve his anxiety. There are other natural methods that can also help relieve anxiety. Sometimes just placing a blanket covering the top half of crate which creates a den-like feeling can help to calm. Here are some other natural remedies that can be tried: Use an oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser. This seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working.. Of course ALWAYS keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser www.comfortzone.com/dogs/products--Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser www.adaptil.com/Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.phpBach's Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation. I used this with my Frankie post surgery. www.bachflower.com/rescue-remedy-pet/
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