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Post by Pauliana on Jun 17, 2016 20:57:55 GMT -7
Hi Chris,
It may be the Gabapentin and Methocarbamol making him sleepy/groggy. Tyler stared at us too. I think it's because they are confused about what is happening to them. Just tell Oscar everything is going to be ok and believe that yourself because it will be. You two will get through this. It may seem like little progress but inside he is working hard at healing.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 18, 2016 7:49:56 GMT -7
Chris, as long as neuro functions are not diminishing that is good. When nerves heal, they can be very slow to regenerate. To us it may seem as though progress has reached a lull of nothing happening. Then when enough nerves have connected, there appears to us as all of a sudden an improvement in nerve function. Think in terms of months rather than days/ weeks for nerve repair. The 8 weeks of rest is dedicated to getting the disc to heal. Nerve repair might not come back in that short of time.
Looks like pred will start a taper this Sunday 6/19. The taper is a test for pain to let the vet know quickly if another course of pred is needed to resolve all painful swelling. Which did your vet call for during the pred taper? ---- a backing off of pain masking pain meds (gabapentin, Tramadol and methocarbamol) with the begin of the taper ---- the stop of the pain meds during the pred taper.
Pain-masking pain meds on board would not give a clear and prompt assessment. No one knows how many courses of pred it will take, so it is very prudent to try a test for pain pred taper. Your job at home is to alert the vet at any hint of pain surfacing. Rule of thumb is: pain = swelling = more time on anti-inflammatory, pain meds and Pepcid AC/sucralfate needed.
Please do keep us posted as the pred taper begins this Sunday.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 18, 2016 12:15:42 GMT -7
Thanks for the pointers. Should the prednisone be stopped before Oscar regains control of his right leg? The vet mentioned nothing about method of taper beyond 5 days of 1/2 pills then 10 days every other day. I may wait until Monday to start the taper because the vet is closed Sunday
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 18, 2016 12:27:38 GMT -7
With Oscar's pancreatitis and heart issues, Oscar would be best served by following your vet's exact instruction for beginning the taper on Sunday to start getting off this med. Call in Monday and ask which is his preference to have a clear picture on pain during a taper (stop or back off the pain meds). I recommend reviewing each of the four phases of healing. Each has a different way of healing. Some require meds, for other phases there are no meds that can help. Control of the leg, a neurological function, is a matter of nerve healing. This page will give you a quick summary. That way you are better prepared to communicate with the vet, understand what he is trying to get across and if something doesn't ring right-- you are prepared to advocate for Oscar. Here is that link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 20, 2016 12:37:09 GMT -7
June 20 Started to ween Oscar off ▼prednisone. He I'd feeling better and his strength and coordination is returning.
June 22, there are no obvious signs of pain I can see or note. His appetite has returned. Oscar is walking, but he has a pronounced limp. He rolls on his back to sleep and does not seem bothered by the limp. . He is still on ▼prednisone 2.5 mg once per day, which was reduced from the original dose of twice per day. On Monday that dose is cut to every other day. His activities remain restricted to bathroom breaks and dinner time.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 22, 2016 13:42:21 GMT -7
Good news about Oscar not having any pain. Have all the pain meds been stopped now?
He will not be bothered by the limp. He can get around and that is fine with him. There is a lot of nerve healing that can still take place and Oscar's limp is likely to improve. But even if it doesn't he will not care.
Continuing to be strict about his crate rest will give the disk time to heal.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 23, 2016 11:21:47 GMT -7
All the pain medications have been stopped, but he remains on prednisone 1/2 pill in the morning. He has a pronounced limp and weakness in his right rear leg. He stands, although lifting his leg is hit or miss. He has less trouble controlling his leg on the carpet than on the grass. I cannot keep him in a cage as he goes major crazy, clawing and tearing it apart, its easier if he is on his blankets asleep and he is restricted to a small throw rug sized area.
8am jun 24. This morning Oscar went out and his walking was stronger and the rear right leg was stronger. He is more steady. He was more vocal this morning, took his pill, a greenie. His vocalizatiom caused me to be concerned he was feeling was pain, but it doesn't appear to be pain. He is not shivering and he is lying in his bed quietly.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 27, 2016 3:44:12 GMT -7
At 2am jun 27, Oscar started to feel pain. I gave him Tramadol, then at 5:00am.i gave him Gabapetin and prednisone with a Pepcid. He can't seem to get comfortable, although he can walk and appears to have no neurological issues. He is vocalizing and making a slight 'huffing' sound. So I assume pain.
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 27, 2016 5:09:13 GMT -7
Chris, you need to let the vet know about the return of pain ASAP so he can return Oscar to the original anti-inflammatory dosage of the Prednisone. Pain means there is still swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine and therefore there is still a need to be on all meds. It's that swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine that causes pain and can lead to nerve damage. It can take 7-30 days for that swelling to resolve.
Please let us know what the vet says after calling them this morning.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 27, 2016 13:10:17 GMT -7
I had an appointment at 7:30 am jun 27. It appears that in addition to his back issue: he has no more of a neurological problem except for the limp in his right leg. He is back on
[17.1 lbs. Metacam suspension as of 6/11: 2x/day for 7 days STOPPED 6/14 Prednisone shot 6/13 prednisone as of 6/14: 2.5mg x2 per day, 5 days as of 6/27]: 2.5mg bid, [for 5 days] Tramadol 50mg x3, Gabapetin x3 and Roboxin x3 for at least a week as a precaution. [baytril 34mg x2 for 14 days. ]
The vet thinks it may be radiated pain and believes he has a uti and prostatitis. He prescribed baytril 34mg x2 for 14 days. (No Pepcid or surcarafate as it interacts with the antibiotic). He is shaking from the infection, or so the vet thinks. He ate his dinner tonite, but is staying off his right leg. He is sleeping, which could be a symptom of the pain meds he is back on.
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 27, 2016 15:38:35 GMT -7
Chris refresh your mind about Pepcid AC and discuss with the vet if this anti-histamine which suppresses acids could be brought back on board to protect the stomach. Carafate DOES contain aluminum, but Pepcid AC contains no metal cations, it is only an anti-histimine. Sometimes Pepcid AC may unintentionally get lumped in with other "anti-acids"
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 29, 2016 5:37:22 GMT -7
No Pepcid. Th Baytril has made him more comfortable and it appears the UTI/prostititis is clearing, but he is not progressing fast towards a recovery of the back issue. He will go out an Pee and poop, but has no real interest in walking. His right leg remains weak and slightly wobbly. He is not drinking or eating as much as he had in the past, although he is eating and drinking. His appetite is not ravenous, he is more interested in sleeping. I was told to continue the prednisone 2xper day [for ? days] and then begin to re-taper, no Pepcid or carafate with baytril. I'm not sure about the need for the pain meds any longer. I think they're making him sleepy and loopy. I may begin to gradually ween him off them too.
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 29, 2016 8:21:28 GMT -7
Chris, do let us know for how many days the 6/27 Rx of 2.5mg Pred 2x/day is for. What date is the pred taper to start? That is the date that pain meds would be either backed off or stopped (ask your vet which he wants). The pred taper is a test for pain, so naturally that is the time to stop/back off pain masking pain meds so there is a clear and prompt picture of any hint of pain surfacing.
Since there is no stomach protection on board, do be sure to give prednisone with a meal as at least a minimal protection. Should any GI tract damage surface while on prednisone do discuss protection.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 29, 2016 15:13:09 GMT -7
The prednisone is 5 day then taper. I asked specifically about an antacid and was told to stop until the baytril is finished. I read the articles and have given him a Pepcid with the Gabapetin I just gave him. He was uncomfortable so I started the pain meds again. I can't tell if it is his prostate or his back tho. his next regular set up of pain meds and prednisone is at 10pm.
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 30, 2016 8:09:38 GMT -7
Do let your vet know about the pain... what does he think... prostrate or still swelling in spinal cord? Since pred taper is to start on Sat 7/2 and proceed over the weekend when your vet is not open you will want to have enough meds on board (in other words a plan B) til the vet opens on Monday if this is still would be spinal cord swelling.
It is always a good thing for the vet to know all meds your dog is on....best to discuss things and come to a meeting of the mind so everybody is on the same page in understanding.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 30, 2016 9:46:09 GMT -7
He can't say which is causing the pain: it could be the back or it could be radiated pain from the prostate. He is not shaking and I cannot see signs of pain or a combination of both... the vet said he usually will locate the area of a back issue by feeling the back and a flitch, but he couldn't with Oscar. His prostate is swollen. Oscar limps on his right rear and doesn't want to walk much or put a lot of weight on it; but he can. He doesn't have great control over it. It is weak. He can wag his tail, stand on his own and poop and pee without aid. His right leg doesn't seem to be getting stronger. It sometimes gives him trouble. I'm not sure he isn't stoned by too much pain med. he stares unmoving in his bed with his pupils wide. When he is out, sometimes he lifts his right leg to pee. He does not drink a lot and is off his food, leaving some in his bowl; something he never did when his brother was around. I also need a new trick for his pills. I have more pills as the vet gave me a stash. Until his bout of prostititis and UTI he was getting stronger faster.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 30, 2016 14:10:09 GMT -7
Oscar is dealing with a lot now, the disk issue, the prostatitis and the loss of his brother. He is also taking multiple medications which could certainly cause him to seem stoned. With the pred taper starting which usually means backing off or stopping pain meds you will get a better sense of this. Fingers crossed that the taper will be successful.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 30, 2016 16:16:52 GMT -7
7pm Just got off the phone with the vet. He suggested stopping the Roboxin and seeing if that helps. He didn't say anything about stopping the pain meds right away with the taper.
7am July 1, Roboxin was stopped yesterday. This morning he appeared stronger and more alert. He walked a few steps outdoors but then after pooping and peeing, carried up then having his mintee and treat, he started to limp again. He is back on his pillows on his back trying to get comfortable.
He is currently taking 1/2 Baytril once per day, Gabapetin and Tramadol for pain x3 and 1/2 prednisone x2. Test of a Prednisone taper begins Saturday.
Oscar seems to be having more difficulty recovering from this back event than did his brother.
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 2, 2016 8:10:44 GMT -7
Chris, let us know how the taper goes today. Yes, you are right, each disc episode even with the the same dog can be different as well as when compared to another dog.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jul 3, 2016 4:25:02 GMT -7
7am jul 2. Yesterday -Tried to eliminate the pain and prednisone pills ( I have already eliminated the Roboxin) and saw him shivering. I was not sure it was pain, but when I called the vet, he was closed until July 5. The emergency vet is too far to get to from where I live, so I gave him his meds and will try to taper beginning the 5th when the vet is available if there is a problem. Oscar takes a few steps. He can stand. He poops and pees on his own, but his rear legs remain weak and wobbly
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 3, 2016 4:39:35 GMT -7
I do hope that Oscar is comfortable now and I'm sorry to hear that the taper of meds had to be stopped. Please do update us on Tuesday after speaking to the vet.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jul 5, 2016 12:40:21 GMT -7
July 5, 7am. Began to taper. He had Pepcid 1/2 a prednisone, Tramadol and Roboxin. Nothing at 2:00pm. By 3:30pm Oscar doesn't appear to be in any pain, but his right rear leg is weak and he tries not to put weight on it. He can walk, poop and pee. He is sleeping comfortably on his blankets waiting for dinner.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 5, 2016 13:07:03 GMT -7
Fingers crossed that Oscar's taper continues to go well.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jul 5, 2016 14:46:33 GMT -7
He ate his dinner this evening. He stands to eat and drink. The hair on his back was raised, not sure what that was about. He doesn't appear to be in pain. Carried him back to his bed. He went to sleep on his back. Totally Sound asleep now. 9:30am July 6. 24 hours after I began taper. It seems to be going well. Oscar has become vocal. He grumbles whenever anyone comes in the room, then settles back. 4pm, I don't notice any obvious pain signs. However his right leg continues to be weak and periodically gave him difficulty walking on it when he went out to poop and pee. He doesn't walk much when he goes out. He likes to roll in the grass. He ate dinner, but all around the pumpkin leaving it in the bowl.
July7, 9:00am. 1/2 Prednisone and antibiotic. Left rear leg appears weak but the right has become stronger. Oscar walks; No obvious pain symptoms although he is struggling to poop (might be prostate or sciatica). Not sure I'm not just being hypersensitive to signals. I have guests coming so to be extra careful and make Oscar sleepy and quiet, I gave him a Gabapetin.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jul 8, 2016 6:18:46 GMT -7
9am jul 8. No obvious pain and still on taper of 1/2 prednisone and baytril, going well. I notice when Oscar walks when he goes out to the bathroom his rear is weak and unstable. Not painful, but unstable.
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 8, 2016 10:45:40 GMT -7
Chris if Oscar's stool is not of normal firmness, it is too firm, then try other than pumpkin. He may like the taste of microwaved and mashed sweet potatoe or white potato, a very ripe mashed pear. One teaspoon with each meal. In addition soak each of his kibble meals in equal parts liquid to help with hydration.
Do watch on the pred taper for pain and diminishment of leg function. Expect the left rear leg that is apparently suffering with some loss of nerve function to be weak and also not much use of it can cause some muscle weakness atrophy.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jul 8, 2016 10:59:37 GMT -7
I feed Oscar a mix of white rice, chicken breast, broth and a tablespoon of wet iams ID dogfood. He gets a greenie and a slice of salami with his pill. Sometimes a few kibble so as a snack. He is not in any observable pain, he stands well, it's just his rear legs are unstable when he walks.
4:00pm. Oscar is regaining strength in his rear. He is cautious walking. Tries to lift his leg and raises it about an half inch now. He had an accident last nite, but he walked away from his blankets to have the accident. He was clearly feeling ashamed as he doesn't mess in the house. He has no obvious signs of pain.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jul 13, 2016 15:06:51 GMT -7
Jul 18, Oscar is on every other day prednisone. There is no pain obvious and the rear legs are getting stronger although there is a small deficit to the rear right leg.
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 14, 2016 6:45:58 GMT -7
Chris, excellent news. Got our fingers cross the taper will go to conclusion and still no pain will show.
Has Oscar been able to transition back to a full wet food with just 1 teaspoon of chicken on top? White rice and chicken do not have all the vitamins/minerals a dog needs. Dog food is formulated for the nutritional needs of a canine.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jul 14, 2016 7:24:48 GMT -7
I mix it with wet iams dog food. Just had a sonogram and urine test; it appears Oscar has a very large cyst in his prostate. His prostate is enlarged. He is back on antibiotics (baytril once per day 14 days) to try to reduce the cyst and infection. It may take 3 more courses to reduce it to normal. The vet said this may have caused radiated pain and made the disk issue appear much worse than it was.
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