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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 11, 2016 13:47:15 GMT -7
Oscar, 15 years old, dachshund, Oscar went down in pain at midnight, Friday. I gave him 1/4 of a 50mg Tramadol for the night while I waited to see the vet. This morning I saw the vet who prescribed
[17.1 pounds] Tramadol [12.5mgs] 1/4 every 8 hrs metatropozine(sp) 1/4 every hrs and an NSAID, Metacam as of 6/11:(a liquid at a double dose to start 32, then 17 once daily).
I think he is trying to avoid a steroid because of a heart murmur. His brother, Hansel who died last week of heart failure, had a history of back issues. oscar was Xrayed and was diagnosed with arthritis in the back and a very narrow mid disk which may indicate an old back event. He can stand and walk still, but does not want to walk or urinate or move. Im devastated having lost his brother last week and now, because of the heart issue and age Oscar is not a candidate for surgery.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 11, 2016 14:15:46 GMT -7
Hi and welcome to Dodgerslist. Everyone here has a dog with IVDD so you have come to the right place. My sincere sympathy on the loss of Oscar's brother. First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for Oscar to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking during the short 8 weeks of conservative treatment it will take a disc to heal or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm If Oscar is not a candidate for surgery he can be treated with the conservative method of Strict crate rest. Surgery is not the only effective treatment for IVDD. In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? ☐ What is your name? I am Romy. ☐ Did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc? Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)? ☐ Let us know you are on the same page about crate rest. When was it started? The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the crate rest part. With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. That 6 weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no dragging or meandering at potty times. Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg☐ Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, restless, can't find a comfortable position. Ears pinned back, arched back. Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky selves. Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose of correctly Rx/d pain meds. "There is medicine and there is healing. Healing requires rest and comfort, and all patients should be kept as comfortable as possible. Studies have shown a correlation between less pain and faster recovery from illness, surgery, or injury." Barak Benaryeh, DVM, DABVP. Identifying Pain in Geriatric Patients. Veterinary Team Brief. NOV/Dec 2015. ☐ Why Chiropractic is not recommended for pain for an IVDD dog www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm☐ How much does Oscar weigh? Is the metatropozine an antibiotic? Is it possibly metronidazole? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving doxie weight dogs 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. ☐ Currently can Oscar wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? ☐ Can Oscar specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? ☐ Is he eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? Excluding an emergency of pain not being controlled or diminishment of nerve functions that require prompt vet help, we have excellent resources for many IVDD questions members have. While you are waiting for a reply, do check out our "All things IVDD" resources for getting the recovery suite setup to an overview of just how Conservative Treatment works: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 11, 2016 14:51:30 GMT -7
My name is Chris. Nice to meet you. Oscar weight is 17.1 pounds. He is 15 years old. There is some shivering intermittently, not regular. He has been sleeping on his blankets. He can raise himself, wobbly walk if prompted and allows himself to be picked up without complaint. His right leg is slightly affected and only slowly recovers. He wags his tail. No bed wetting, he squatted this morning when he got back from the vet. He has not pooped. He ate a little rice and chicken with broth this afternoon. He is currently sleeping without shivering. I did not get a specific diagnosis on Oscar. There was no indication of a bulging disk currently on the X-rays. There were indications of arthritis and an older narrowed disk above the tense belly which had indications of arthritis at that point. We are on the same page, although he is limited to a small area in the living room, rather than locked in a cage. He is asleep on his blankets.
Metronidazole - a muscle relaxant. He suggested the Metacam be given with food in the morning.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 11, 2016 15:21:56 GMT -7
Most degenerating discs, can not be seen on a plain x-rays so it certainly is possible that Oscar has IVDD. It sounds like IVDD and IVDD should be suspected. So it can be treated as a suspected IVDD episode until a positive diagnosis is given. The standard treatment for a suspected disc episode is 8 full weeks of strict crate rest as described above. Are you limiting his movement in the living room with an ex-pen?
I am concerned that the shivering is pain. Oscar should not be in pain. The pain will slow down the healing process. Please let the vet know right away that Oscar is still in pain so he can adjust the pain meds.
Oscar will need something to protect his stomach from GI problems. This is important. Usually we see Pepcid AC used for this but with a heart murmur the vet may want to use something else. Ask as soon as you can.
Pumpkin is a magical fruit and can be used to help Oscar poop. Its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato.
The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference.
To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to a kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. You can try this for Oscar.
Keep us updated on how Oscar is doing.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,622
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 11, 2016 15:45:15 GMT -7
Chris, I'm so sorry to hear about Hansel. I remember him and know how much your heart must ache. My sincere condolences. With Oscar--- the not eating (the reason for rice and chicken?) is a red flag sign of GI tract problems. Metcam causes extra stomach acids that can lead to bleeding ulcers. Do get with your vet first thing in the am to discuss Pepcid AC or another GI protector. There have been some reports of exacerbating heart rhythm problems in patients who already have heart rhythm problems so it may be prudent to choose another means of stomach acid control in heart patients. marvistavet.com/famotidine.pmlPlease check the spelling on the bottle to let us know which is being given: --Methocarbamol is a muscle relaxer. --Metronidazole is an antibiotic. IF Metronidazole what was the reason this was precribed? How often are you giving? For a 17 lbs dog, Oscar is being under medicated for pain if you are seeing two or more signs of pain nearing the next dose of Tramadol or when having to make the effort to move. These are the signs of pain: ◻︎shivering-trembling ◻︎yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ◻︎tight tense tummy ◻︎restless, can't find a comfortable position. ◻︎arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎not their normal perky selves. Normally it will take 2-3 pain meds to give full relief. These pain meds are short lived thus the need for a vet to prescribe them for 3x/day: Methocarbamol for muscle spasm pain. Methocarbamol comes in a 500mg tablet and is usually cut into fourths (125mgs) and given every 8 hours. Tramadol at 12.5 mgs is a VERY low dose, discuss moving to a more aggressive mgs 3x/day To give Oscar every chance possible to get his disc healed you would want to use a recovery suite. Dogs always do the unexpected and will harm themselves having to start crate rest all over again. What is the stumbling block to getting Oscar into an ex-pen, a pet stroller, a packNplay?
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 11, 2016 19:21:44 GMT -7
He is kept in a small area, slightly larger than a cage, but not full run. It's Methocarbamol. Not an antibiotic. This evening he pooped and peed. He is no longer shivering. He is doing much better this evening as the pain meds have kicked in. He has no indication of the signs of pain. I was told to give the NSAIDs in the morning with some food and I could add a 1/4 Zanta [Zantac], which I have on hand. He gets chicken and rice because he is both spoiled and a finicky eater after a bout of pancreatitis a few years ago. I also started giving him 1/2 a condrotin and goglosomine pill.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 12, 2016 4:06:17 GMT -7
I'm glad Oscar's pain is under control, Chris. That's great news. Please let us know what the exact dosage of Methocarbamol is with mgs and how frequently given.
17.1 lbs. Tramadol 12.5mgs 3x/day Methocarbamol ??mgs ??x/day Metacam as of 6/11:(a liquid at a double dose to start 32, then 17 once daily) Zantac ??mg ??x/day
The strict limitation of movement of the spine is the most crucial part of conservative care. Too much movement and the damaged disc could tear more, causing more pain with the risk of nerve damage (loss of bladder/bowel control or paralysis). The recovery area needs to be only large enough for Oscar to stand up, turn around and lie down with his feet comfortably extended. The recovery suite should be viewed as a cast for the spine. Take a look at how a prematurely aged disc can damage the spinal cord:
Famotodine, which is contained in Pepcid AC, is approximately 7.5 times more potent than Ranitidine, which is contained in Zantac. Please ask the vet if there are any health reasons why Oscar shouldn't take 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 mins before the Metacam and then every 12 hours thereafter.
It's best to hold off on starting any supplements until all prescribed meds have been stopped. Otherwise, should diarrhea or vomiting be seen, it would be difficult to determine whether it was due to the supplements or the meds. Here's our page on supplements for more info: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Supplements.htm
My condolences on your loss of Hansel. Healing prayers for Oscar.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 12, 2016 5:13:32 GMT -7
What I could suggestions on is how to get him to take the pills. He is a very picky eater and bring a dachshund, stubborn. I've wrapped the pills in shaved salami, he used to like that, now he's spitting it out. I've tried cheese, he walks away. Chicken, meh. Help! He's whine-y, because he is confined. Doesn't appear to be because of pain. [17.1 lbs. Metacam suspension as of 6/11:dose to start 32, then 17 2x/day for ?days Tramadol 12.5mgs 3x/day] Methocarbamol 1/4 pill of 500 mg. 3x per day. I got him to take Zantac 1/4
He has the option to move slightly more than just lying, but he's just lying on his blankets or will walk about 3 feet to his bowl of water.
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jun 12, 2016 8:15:28 GMT -7
Hi Chris, I'm sorry to hear Oscar is having an IVDD issue.
Giving meds to a resistant dog is a problem. Our Chloe luckily did not have IVDD. But she was extremely good at spitting out pills no matter what we did. When the meds were essential to her health, I would open her mouth and put the pill on the back of her tongue so she had to swallow it. This procedure wasn't pleasant and, with an IVDD dog, it's important that they don't squirm around trying to avoid taking the meds.
Sometimes Chloe would take her meds if we put them in her soft food with low-salt/low-fat chicken broth.
I would avoid giving Oscar processed meat products like salami. It's very high in fat and the preservatives and spices could upset Oscar's digestion. That is something you really want to avoid especially when the medication he is taking might also upset his stomach.
Hang in there. You're doing the right things to help your dog recover.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,622
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 12, 2016 9:48:51 GMT -7
Chris, there is way too much room in Oscar recovery suite, if he can walk 3 feet to his water bowl. The space in the suite should only be large enough to easily turn around and when lying down to fully stretch out the legs. Limited movement of the spine is a key factor in getting the disc to heal. You can attached DIY water and food bowls to the side of the suite at head height: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/bowlHLDR.jpgFor how many days is the RX for Metacam? Often vets will Rx a 5 of 7 day course of Metcam and then call for the stop of it and pain meds. This is the test for pain. Your job is to monitor for any hint of pain re-surfacing and alert the vet. Pain is an indicator Metcam needs another round to resolve all pain and then try the test for pain once again. What size Zantac pill... how many mg are in the pill that you cut into quarters?What is the reason he is not in a recovery suite: an ex-pen, a pet stroller, a pack N Play, a baby crib? Dogs always do the unexpected and can harm themselves we are not proactive in being one step ahead of them. Not moving much only to get a drink of water, sounds like Oscar may be in pain. Please observe him for two or more signs of pain. Tramadol at 12.5mgs 3x/day is like not giving a 17lbs dog any general pain relief! Methocarbamol only deals with one kind of pain (muscle spasms) With a disc episode there are normally three sources of pain. Thus Tramadol as the general pain reliever up at even a full 50mgs pill...so advocate for more mgs. Do not self prescribe, that is your vet's job and his training. Adovcate for gabapentin to address nerve pain. Do let us know if you are observe two or more signs of pain. Pain will hinder the entire healing process and why it needs to be fully covered dose to dose of the pain meds. Metacam can take weeks to resolve painful swelling.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 12, 2016 12:30:41 GMT -7
The Metacam is prescribed for 7 days. Follow up is on Monday. The Zantac is a standard overthecounter pill. The vet prescription is 1/4 to 1/2 pill of Tramadol. Oscar is passed out on his pillows, remember there's been no definitive diagnosis and so far the amount seems to be working. The reason for smaller dosages is the vet is trying for the minimum amount because of the heart murmur. He is carried out, and back for potty breaks, but remember he is a senior too.
a short update:5pm. Midday at 3pm I gave his relaxant and pain meds. I just took Oscar out he pooped and peed. His walking is stronger outdoors compared to yesterday. I gave him dinner in the kitchen. He ignored it. Then he walked to his bed, Rolled on his back before he went to sleep. He is shaking while totally asleep, but I don't see him shivering while he is awake. I upped the tramadol to 1/2 pill by agiving him another 1/4 pill at 5:30pm. I suddenly realized the bottle said 1/2 pill. I was looking at an old bottle from Hansel. I feel awful. At 6pm he started to eat a little chicken and my hamburger.
[17.1 lbs.
Metacam suspension as of 6/11:dose to start 32, then 17 2x/day for ?days Tramadol 25 mgs 3x/day] Methocarbamol 1/4 pill of 500 mg. 3x per day. I got him to take Zantac 1/4
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 13, 2016 4:48:39 GMT -7
Update 7:30am Oscar seems better, stronger and much more vocal. Strangely he is now licking his paws and legs. He is also rolling over on his back in dachshund manner. His gait is stiff when he went out to pee, but he is lifting his leg and is not squatting any longer. His underbelly is not tight first thing in the morning, but after an 1/2 hour of his 1/2 pill of Pepcid AC and after his 1/2 pill Tramadol, 1/4 of the relaxant and Metacam, it tensed. Overall he appears stronger and less in pain and more mobile, although not recovered. He would not eat his regular greenie this morning, but only some boiled chicken cubes and water. I think he is on a road to recovery.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,622
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 13, 2016 10:15:56 GMT -7
Chris, would you help us with completion of the med list specifics we are in the dark which makes it difficult to give accurate comment.
-- Licking front or back legs? -- Do you now have the recovery suite area only large enough to fully stretch out legs when he lies down? -- Where you able to get the water bowl attached at head height inside the recover suite?
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 13, 2016 11:34:33 GMT -7
Metacam suspension as of 6/11:dose to start 32, then 17 2x/day for how may days is the Rx? 7 days. Tramadol 25 mgs 3x/day is this the actual correct mg dose 3x/day? 25 mg per dose, the pills are 50mg cut in half. Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day the pill is a 500 mg cut in quarters.
Zantac -- stopped, changed to 1/2 Pepcid AC 12 hours apart. Tab says 20 mg. should I reduce it?
[17.1 lbs. Metacam suspension as of 6/11:start dose 32, then 17 2x/day for 7 days Tramadol 25 mgs 3x/day Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day Zantac stopped Pepcid AC 20mg tab: 10mgs 2x/day]
-- Licking front or back legs? Both, that's stopped now. He is less stressed and his gait has improved. -- I have a crate if necessary.. Although he is not moving around he can turn. The water is off to the side.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,622
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 13, 2016 13:13:12 GMT -7
Chris did the vet Rx giving the Pepcid AC at 10mgs 2x/day? Because of heart murmur you do want the vet Rxing the proper dose for Oscar. Give them a call if they did not Rx and confirm dose.
We never know when a dog will start feeling good. In a blink of an eye, when you are not expecting them to dart off, they can do some serious setback to the healing disc. The recovery suite (crate or expen, etc.) is how we stay one step ahead in protecting them. They don't understand about the necessity to prevent excessive movement as we do.
Not moving around as a dog normally might, tells me they don't fee good. Reluctance to move is a pretty typical indicator the pain meds are not yet right. Can you alert the vet by phone and discuss if adding gabapentin will give full pain control so that Oscar becomes his normal perky self?
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 13, 2016 15:29:29 GMT -7
No he did not Rx the Pepcid, although he did say I could give some. I took the amount from a poster. That's why I asked about giving a quarter pill rather than a half.
Oscar doesn't dart, he has arthritis in his spine and prostatitis, I think.. His licking seemed to be concentrated under his front arm. Maybe it's just cleaning.? That's one reason why The vet was and I were not sure it's a disk issue. Could be a mild back issue or the arthritis or prostatitis (which he's had before).
The cage/crate is not really an issue. He simply sleeps on his blankets, periodically turns and stays put. Not a lot of excitement in the house with his brother gone. I think He is depressed, particularly as it's just 3 weeks. . He'll eat a few pieces of boiled chicken, the salami I wrap the pills in, but he hasn't a big appetite. He will take some water. I carry him go the grass. He walks now, pees and now lifts his leg, he poops, but small amounts. He Will roll on the pavement, then be pickded up and placed on his blankets and go to sleep in his bed. If I have to leave him alone, I will crate, but he's never been calm in a crate. The setup seems to work for him. I'm not saying it would for a younger more active dog.
He is not shaking any longer. I don't think pain is an issue. I spoke to the vets office and will make an appointment Friday for a follow- up. I can speak to the vet tommorow.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,622
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 13, 2016 15:55:13 GMT -7
With a heart murmur, it would be best to get the correct dose of Pepcid AC and not take any chances. The normal dose for a 17 lbs dog would be 5mgs 2x/day. Again Oscar is not a normal health dog...so you would need to verify with the vet via phone call what dose would be good for Oscar. Let us know what your vet says.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 14, 2016 15:48:00 GMT -7
At 4pm today Oscar let out a bloodcurdling scream from his bed. His back went out while he was sleeping on a pillow. 15 minutes later I was at the vet. The vet said he could feel the two disks, mid back "grating." He has deficits in his right leg, but still can feel deep pain in his right foot and stand and move. The Vet prescribed and gave a prednisone shot. I Call-in tommorow AM. He started and gave him .5 gr carafate (x3 day) and gabapentin 100mg x3 day.pepcid AC Otc 5mg x3 day to Tramadol and Roboxin. He discontinued Metacam. He is resting but still uncomfortable. He was greatly improving until this event.
[17.1 lbs. Metacam suspension as of 6/11: 2x/day for 7 days STOPPED 6/14 Prednisone shot 6/14 Carafate 500mg 3x/day added 6/14 Pecpid AC 5mg 3x/day gabapentin 100mg 3x/day Tramadol 25 mgs 3x/day Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 14, 2016 16:09:59 GMT -7
I am very sorry to hear that Oscar had another episode.
It seems the vet thought it was an emergency and gave the pred shot without a 4-7 day washout from the metcam. He is double protecting the stomach with the carafate(sucralfate) and the pepcid ac.
In addition to the gabapentin is he now taking: Tramadol 25 mgs 3x/day Methocarbamol (Roboxin) 125mgs 3x/day
If he is still showing signs of pain you should let the vet know right away. There is no need for Oscar to be in pain. It will only slow his healing. Vets have a lot of options to control pain and the vet can tweak his meds if they are not yet providing Oscar with full relief.
Healing thoughts for Oscar.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 15, 2016 13:48:43 GMT -7
Je 15 Update- 4:30pm. The steroid seems to be working. He is weak. He is zonked on the pain and relaxant. Sleeping on a pillow. He stood to take a pee earlier outdoors and as he wasn't drinking a lot i was concerned. He ate his dinner of 1/2 cup of rice and boiled chicken. He demanded it be fed to him. I did! I found a cold laser light I had purchased years ago and i am trying on his back. Strangely he just insisted on rolling on his back to sleep? Je 14: He is sound asleep, the twitching and obvious pain signs ended. I give him Tramadol, Roboxin etc... drugs at 11 pm. What other more powerful drugs are available for pain? Update -6:30am Oscar is lame on his right rear leg. He can shift himself, he drinks water and took the pills wrapped in a piece of salami. He has deep feeling, can stand, but his right leg knuckles over. The signs of pain are not present. After the prednisone shot yesterday [Je 13] I telephoned the vet this morning [6/14]. He prescribed the [17.1 lbs. Metacam suspension as of 6/11: 2x/day for 7 days STOPPED 6/14 Prednisone shot 6/13 Carafate 500mg 3x/day added 6/14 Pecpid AC 5mg 3x/day gabapentin 100mg 3x/day Tramadol 25 mgs 3x/day Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/dayoral prednisone as of 6/14: 2.5mg x2 per day, 5 days then taper 5 days to every other dat 10 days. He advised we might need to either up the dose or time on the pill. Started laser light therapy on back. See: arthritis-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13075-015-0882-0
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 15, 2016 14:31:29 GMT -7
Is this weakness in the right leg getting worse?
A vet has a lot of options for treating pain including tweaking the dosages of what he is already taking. Am I correct in saying that Oscar is no longer showing signs of pain? If he is not than the pain meds are currently right.
The dose of pred is low so it may be necessary to increase it. We are not vets and do not know the specifics of each dog's health. We are making this suggestion based on what we've seen qualified vets prescribe in the past and only as a basis for discussion with your vet.
I had my Frankie treated with cold laser therapy, but I had this done at the vets office. I am not sure if it was the same thing.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 15, 2016 15:27:30 GMT -7
Yes the pain is under control. I was asking in the event that the pain returns. It was more hypothetical. The prednisone seems to be working. This early morning Oscar was having difficulty standing steadily and peeing. This afternoon following the prednisone he appeared steadier and slightly stronger. The option remains to increase the dose. I think the vets concern with prednisone is the heart murmur.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,622
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 16, 2016 10:07:00 GMT -7
Chris, good news on the low dose of Pred it is helping to get the swelling down. Heart issues and pancreatitis are a VERY big concern when on pred.
Prednisone, itself, can cause pancreatitis, a condition in which the pancreas is inflamed. Signs of pancreatitis: nausea, vomiting, fast heartbeat and stomach pain that radiates to the back.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 16, 2016 12:08:10 GMT -7
I have a question about recovery of movement. This afternoon I was watching Oscar use his right leg, he seems to move and have some control over it and will use it to push off or balance, but it knuckles under and the toes drag sometimes. His control is improving slowly since he started the prednisone. I assume the pred is reducing the pressure on his cord, but I start tapering on he 19th. There doesn't appear to be any pain. . What should I look for along the way as milestones?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 16, 2016 13:29:44 GMT -7
With a pred taper be on the lookout for signs of pain. If you see this let the vet know right away.
Often with a taper the vet will stop or cut down the pain meds. They do this because the pain meds mask the pain and makes it difficult to determine if the swelling in the spinal cord is gone. Did the vet mention doing this?
If pain returns the swelling in the spinal cord in not gone and the dog is returned to the original dose of pred, the pain meds and the pepcid ac.
In terms of progress it will simply be a matter of less and less knuckling and steadier walking. For my Frankie it was incremental steps; nothing dramatic. He just started walking steadier and steadier with more correct paw placement.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 16, 2016 15:00:02 GMT -7
Thanks, He was so much better after the pred. Then got silightly better and stronger quickly; now he seems to be at a standstill. He doesn't appear in pain but he just wants to sleep. He is not very interested in drinking water and I make him drink something. He ate, but not with usual relish. He went out to pee, peed a little, then tried to roll on the concrete, stopped that and picked him up and back on the pillows. I guess I was hoping for more radical daily change. I wonder how much is the back and how much is missing his brother.
he buried himself under covers for the first time since this disk happened 8:30 pm after going out to pee.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 16, 2016 15:28:35 GMT -7
Nerve healing is a slow process. Sometimes dogs seem to have reached a plateau for a while and then start moving forward again.
It may be that as he starts to feel better he feels his brother's absence more.
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 17, 2016 13:31:05 GMT -7
4:30 pm and Oscar went out to poop and pee after he ate and drank. He's very wobbly, but gives it his best and can walk. I'm not sure it's his pain meds making him groggy or neuro deficits. He had a difficult time pooping and keeping his leg up to pee.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 17, 2016 14:19:40 GMT -7
It could be either the pain meds or neuro issues making him wobbly. The pain meds can definitely be somewhat sedating. His symptoms have not worsened have they?
When the back legs are weakened, squatting to poop is difficult and lifting the leg to pee also requires strength in the back legs and the coordination to balance on the one back leg while lifting the other.
When he is not walking does he seem alert or is he groggy?
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Post by Chris & Oscar on Jun 17, 2016 16:06:29 GMT -7
Hi! I don't think he's stupid groggy, but he's slow. He stares at me from his blankets kinda blankly. When he went out he had some difficulty controlling his right leg, it drags a bit. Left seems stronger. I don't see him worsening, but not progressing fast either. I'm concerned about ending the meds too soon, particularly the prednisone because of swelling.
6am, steroid and pain meds with stomach protector and Pepcid. Pooped and peed. He seems stronger, although his right rear leg is lame. He is more stable, but not nearly normal. He sleeps after going out.
2:00pm Oscar got his pain meds, muscle relaxant and stomach protector. He went out and seemed ever so slightly more stable standing, but he's wobbly with his right rear toes dragging until he rights the leg and gets his footing. He doesn't appear to be in any pain. He does hold his right leg up when trying to walk. He generally doesn't try to move beyond positioning himself for peeing or pooping and then he takes a few steps. He will roll onto his back on the driveway after he's done. I try to end that quickly. Then to his blanket and back to sleep.
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