|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Nov 9, 2015 21:00:34 GMT -7
Hello my name is Chantelle Jordan. I have a 6 year old dachshund named Noah. I adopted him at 4 months old he is my little baby. Unfortunately Friday nov. 6th I noticed Noah acting strange and at night he was shaking and really uncomfortable. In the morning he was not walking so i was extremely concerned and freaking out. I took him to the vet right away at the west Miami animal clinic. This is the vet that I usually go to. We had an x-ray taken of Noah's back and on the x-ray it showed a spine injury. I was then given 3 different meds,
15lbs
Prednisone 5 MG 1 tablet every 12 hours for 5 days then a less amount to wean him off.
Tramadol 50 MG 1/2 to 3/4 tablet 3 x/day
Ranitidine 150 MG 1/6 tablet every 12 hours 30 minutes before medicines and meals,
I was then reffered to neurologist Dr.De pompa and Dr.wong in Kendall area of miami. I took noah there and Dr. DE POMPA recommended surgery because he thinks Noah has a slipped disc. He also recommended an MRI and surgery but I can not afford the surgery. In that case he suggested strict crate resting for a month or more. Since Noah cannot control his bladder I was taught how to express his bladder which I think I am doing correctly. Though I am giving Noah is pain medicine I don't think it is strong enough. He is still shaking, doesn't want to move, puts his nose up high and just shows he is still in pain. I have an appointment with the neurologist for a follow up appointment. Noah weighs 15 pounds and he is not eating much or drinking water either. He drinks very little, I have to give him water with a syringe. He does not move his legs at all nor wag his tail. Please give me some advice I'm hope the best will come out of this struggle.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Nov 9, 2015 22:05:42 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Chantelle! The single most important part of Conservative treatment is 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks. Let us know you are now, today, on the same page as we are. STRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no dragging at potty times. - in recovery suite except for absolutely necessary vet visits and for potty times. Really good reading and tips on setting up recovery suite here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmIs Noah eating ok? To get him to drink more make low salt homemade chicken broth. Canned broth from the store contains onion powder and onions are toxic to dogs. Most dogs are very tempted by homemade broth. Hopefully that will entice him to drink. The most important thing is to get him out pain. We never have any patience at all with pain. When the meds are correct, he will be in comfort in one hour and it will stay that way dose to dose of the pain meds. Pepcid AC (Famotidine is the generic) is actually better than Ranitidine.. Is there a reason your Vet suggested it instead of Pepcid AC? It's available at the grocery store.. Pepcid AC comes in 10mg tablets that you can cut in half. We give Doxie sized dogs 5mg every 12 hours prior to Prednisone and always give Prednisone with a meal for added protection. What were your Vet's instructions on the tapering of the Prednisone? Are you giving half a tablet of Tramadol or 3/4? Methocarbamol -Advocate for getting this on board as soon as possiblet! Muscle contraction pain is often a big part of the pain. Gabapentin will often be added when there is hard to control pain More info on pain meds used with a disc episode. dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm☐ If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. www.ahvma.org/find-a-holistic-veterinarian/Why chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm Our job on the Forum is to help you learn about IVDD. We want you to have the power of knowledge, the background to discuss things with your vet and more fully understand what he says and to identify things that are not right and get help or find even find a new vet. Once over this bump in the road of life that there will be many happy years ahead living with your Noah. He can be a good candidate to recover under conservative treatment. There is really no better education on each part of conservative treatment including the 4 phases of healing than this page. You will find a quick overall summary + links to give you the in-depth knowledge that an IVDD savvy pet parent demands. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmHealing thoughts and prayers! |
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Nov 10, 2015 20:05:08 GMT -7
Hello!
Yes I am on board with 100% crate rest. Noah had an appointment at the neurologist today and it went well. Noah does require very strict crate rest as directed by the doctor. He seems more like himself today. .. the pain medication seems to be working okay. He is finally eating and drinking water regularly now.
The prednisone is being weaned off.
The neurologist told me to stay with Ranitidine because it is so similar to Pepcid AC and since I had already paid for this prescription I shouldnt have to go buy more, but if I insist on giving him pepcid AC then I could change it. (My vet was the one that prescribed it first)
Thank you for your feedback and let me know if I need more info. I hope I have given good enough info too.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Nov 10, 2015 20:52:54 GMT -7
Hi Chantelle!
Great news that Noah isn't in pain now and he is eating and drinking now. Were there any changes to his medications? What is the tapering dose of the Prednisone? You were giving one 5mg tablet every twelve hours. What is being given now?
|
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Nov 11, 2015 15:38:36 GMT -7
Hello again !
Yes it seems that no is not in as much pain as before. Even though he does not act like himself yet the doctor said that it would take some time for him to be himself. From the doctors observation when testing Knowles back for pain he said that it seemed it was a number 2 being 10 the worst of pain. The
[15 lbs
Tramadol 50 MG 1/2 to 3/4 tablet 3 x/day
Ranitidine 150 MG 1/6 tablet 2x/day]
prednisone 5 milligrams give 1 tablet every 12 hours for 5 days. Then give one tablet by mouth once daily for 5 days, then give 1 tablet every other day.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 11, 2015 16:19:36 GMT -7
Chantelle, the pain meds are not right yet if there is still pain. One pain med is likely not to fully control pain as pain with a disc episode often comes from three different sources. There is no need for any suffering with pain. It is expected in one hour for pain to be control IF, IF the pain meds are right. From there on out full pain releive dose to dose. Which are you giving tramadol 25mgs or 37.5mgs 3x/day? I would be advocating for an Rx for the full 50 mgs tablet for a 15lbs dog. Methocarbamol works on the pain from muscle contractions Gabapentin works on nerve pain. This where to bone up on pain meds with a disc episode so you can do your best in advocating: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmThe best pain control during a disc episode, as in people, comes with multimodal pain management: using more than one approach that addresses pain from multiple fronts. Let us know you have been able to get in touch soonest now, today to get the meds right for Noah. Never have any patience with pain. Michael Richards, DVM explain pain meds : When pain relievers must be given after an injury has occurred it sometimes takes much higher doses to tamp down the pain and get it under control. It is good to keep this in mind, because many people make the mistake of using low doses of pain reliever initially, hoping they will work. It is probably better to start with high doses and then to cut the dosage if it becomes apparent that lower dosages will work. |
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Nov 11, 2015 19:32:54 GMT -7
Thank you. I guess I'm confused on whether he feels pain or not. Today he has acted even better, more like himself. If he shivers lightly does that mean he is in immense pain? He stops shivering it is not a constant thing. I will order for more pain meds to see if there is a change in him. He still bark and does try to leave the crate if I leave the door open for too long. So I keep the door closed when I'm not sitting next to him.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Nov 11, 2015 21:28:34 GMT -7
Chantelle, to tell if Noah is in pain you need to put your detective hat on. You say he is shivering but not constantly. Shivering is a sign of pain but it can also be from nervousness, or even from being cold. To determine if he is having signs of pain you need to see if he is having any of these other symptoms such as trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, nose in the air, or nose to the ground, reluctant to move much or slow to move, can't get comfortable, tight tense tummy, arched back, holding leg up flamingo style, not his normal perky self? If Noah shows two signs of pain then that is your answer.. Let the Vet know so he can adjust the pain medications.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Nov 12, 2015 17:48:28 GMT -7
Thank you. I haven't noticed the other symptoms of pain with Noah. He seems to be doing really well. He has even tried leaving the crate when I open the door and talk happy to him. So I think he's fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Dec 11, 2015 8:01:29 GMT -7
It's has been 5 weeks and my neurologist told me that I could start introducing Noah to the rest of the house moments at a time. First two weeks confined in a bedroom out of the crate and then two weeks after that to the rest of the home. I ordered his wheels and they should be coming in 2 weeks. He has no bladder control but occasionally wags his tail when I take him out of the crate to go to the bathroom. I give him therapy on his legs and check to see if he can feel his legs or tail by pinching, but he still cannot feel them. I want to know what I should do next. I see on this website that it is recommended to crate rest dogs for 2 months but my neurologist suggested 5 weeks. I trust this doctor very much and value his opinion. His office techs measured Noah for his cart and they treat us very good.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
|
Post by Marjorie on Dec 11, 2015 8:43:23 GMT -7
Yes, we do totally recommend a full 8 weeks of strict crate rest, Chantelle. It's great news that Noah is once again wagging his tail and that shows good nerve healing. However, the disc has not yet healed. It takes 8 weeks for the disc to heal and form scar tissue. Too much movement before the disc has healed and the disc can re-tear and you would be back to square one. Also pinching his feet should be stopped as he obviously has deep pain sensation since he can wag his tail. He's not ready yet for a cart and needs those extra three weeks. I know you trust your vet but is it worth taking such a risk just to cut short the crate rest? Those three extra weeks could make such a difference. Have all meds been stopped? If Noah is still on any meds, then there's no proof that swelling has resolved. If there is still swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine, there is even more reason to continue strict restriction of spinal movement. If all meds have been stopped and there is no more pain, then swelling has resolved and Noah could start some passive range of motion exercises and massage. Perform only the steps 1-6 numbered in red below which are for the paralyzed dog on conservative treatment when off all medications and no pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmI do hope you'll reconsider and give Noah the extra time to heal his disc. As you know, we recommend the full 8 weeks of strict crate rest. And then we recommend that the dog be reintroduced to very gradual movement to slowly build up stamina and muscle strength. Here is our page on after the 8 full weeks of crate rest with a recommended schedule to slowly reintroduce movement. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmAlso you can prepare for after the 8 weeks of crate rest by making your home back friendly: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm |
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Dec 11, 2015 9:39:17 GMT -7
Thank you very much. I will take your information seriously and continue Noah's crate rest for 3 more weeks. He has been off of all meds for 3 weeks and he has no pain.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Dec 11, 2015 9:43:47 GMT -7
Chantelle, let me share our observations. We are supportive of what a surgeon wants for a dog post-op. Surgeon's have a higher degree of education plus the daily practice with performing surgery and the post op care needed and often offer 4-6 weeks of rest which is not as strict as necessary under conservative treatment. The benefit of surgery is the offending disc material has been removed from the spinal cord area and active PT can be started very soon after surgery. Then there are many surgeons who also have lots of experience in treating with conservative treatment where surgery for whatever reason would not be an option for the family. We observe most often it is a general DVM vets who carries out conservative treatment with the owner. So let me share what we observe surgeons and general DVM vets who are successful in getting the disc to heal avoiding a relapse and a potential surgery during the conservative treatment period. -- Why discs take time to heal. Dr. Nicholas Sharp, DVM, ACVIM (neurology) says "a disc takes on average about twice as long as a broken bone to heal, as a disc has a very poor blood supply compared to most other tissues including bone." A cast for a broken arm usually will stay on for 6 weeks. Discs need that limited movement to form secure strong tissue, the crate is in a sense a cast for the disc. Dr. Sharp continues: "Strict rest needs to be maintained by keeping the dog in a small cage for 6-8 weeks and then preventing it from running or jumping for a further month after that." Curtis W. Dewey, DVM, ACVIM Neurology Cornell University writes in A Practical Guide to Canine and Feline Neurology" that "Stable patients with intact voluntary motor functions are candidates for medical management consisting of strict cage rest for 6-8 weeks to allow resolution of spinal cord inflammation." Since 2002 and well over 5000 dogs at Dodgerslist we observe dogs who complete the 8 weeks more often avoid a relapse during the conservative treatment period than dogs who have a shorter confinement period. -- Because an early healing weak disc can easily be retorn with too much movement, the very, very lightest and least aggressive of range of motion and massage would wait til off of all meds and there are no signs of pain for the dog who is paralyzed and can't move his legs at all. See the yellow ROM icon on the left, that reminds us to tell you when you report off of all meds. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk and the type of help you would give to help the paralyzed legs: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm-- The focus of the 8 weeks is getting the disc to form good secure scar tissue. Nerve healing may or may not happen during the short 8 weeks a disc can heal in. Think in terms of many months even up to a year for nerve healing rather than days/weeks. Do let us know -- what meds is Noah still on at this point in time? -- If off all meds, have you seen any signs of pain? -- If you specifically do some happy talk to Noah, will he then give you a happy tail wag? -- Has there been any change in whether surgery at any point if needed would be an option for your family?  |
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Dec 13, 2015 14:02:26 GMT -7
I will crate rest Noah for 3 more weeks like you recommended. Thank you for the feedback. I follow the instructions you gave with care.
He is off all meds for 3 weeks now. He is in no pain and it seems that he can start feeling some of his legs.. I touch them and he goes to look at his back feet and tries to show me to stop doing that. But be still cannot walk.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Dec 13, 2015 14:52:57 GMT -7
Chantelle it is still early in the nerve healing department. Often it can take many months for nerves to self repair....so we say never give up hope. OK now that Noah is off all meds and you do not see any pain, that is the time to begin some very, very light least aggressive range of motion and massage for the back legs. This kind of light PT is to keep the joints flexible and from freezing up and also to aid in circulation to muscle tissue. Here is the information in the pink box and a video as well: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmCan you specifically do some happy talk to Noah? Then observe if his tail tries to do a happy wag. |
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Jan 1, 2016 19:53:23 GMT -7
His 2 months of crate rest are now over. I will do more therapy for his legs. He still doesn't have bladder control. I have had him hang around the home but he is so use to staying in one place that he just stays on his bed and only gets off if someone either knocks on the door or he wants to go in the kitchen. Now when I rub his toes his legs retract. I think he can feel something but he can't move them. I also notice that's almost every time I take him to potty outside he poops. It's as if he is holding it as long as he can to go outside. He wags his tail when he is outside and has to pee. I do know he has no pain which is wonderful.  |
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Jan 1, 2016 22:12:54 GMT -7
Happy Crate rest graduation to Noah! Have you discussed rehab with your Vet, Chantelle? Here is our after crate rest article that details gradually easing back into life after crate rest, as you scroll down there is info on water therapy and PT, and many other important tips. dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm |
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 2, 2016 10:12:41 GMT -7
Chantelle, congratulations on providing all the weeks so the disc could heal. It really is still early in the nerve healing department... that it's best to think in terms of months rather than days/weeks for nerves to self repair. Now you can pursue more active types of PT. You can do some sling walking down the hallway so that his front legs can get some exercise and promote him getting off of his bed more often. You can now do the squats, and other more active range of motion for his back legs now as shown in this post-op video below. You will be better maintaining the muscles in the back legs with lost nerve connection while waiting on more nerve growth. When he scoots in the house do watch for any rug or floor causing abrasions to his butt or legs. The after rest link Pauli gave you dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm has sew and no-sew ideas for protective garments at #6. Hey gotta question for you.... would you help us? We love it when members have a mind to pay forward and help another. We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team in any way that makes you happy. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal.
-- "Share" our FB/twitter/ posts to widen the reach of IVDD knowledge www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist twitter.com/DodgersList-- Hand carry our literature and introduce us to your vet. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you our free packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm
-- Don't forget to add a photo to the gallery and 1-2 sentences. Give inspiration to others just starting a scary IVDD journey. Directions to u/l here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendarPlease stay in touch and let us know about any changes you see in Noah. We love updates! |
|
|
|
Post by Chantelle & Noah on Aug 22, 2016 17:40:39 GMT -7
Sorry i havent been responding. Life for Noah has gotten better. He is spinal walking and tries to walk with his cart. Can you recommend some physical therapy treatments at home  I emailed a picture of Noah in his cart. |
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,570
|
Post by PaulaM on Aug 23, 2016 9:40:03 GMT -7
Chantelle, thank you for the photo it is also on the Gallery here: www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3Scroll back up to my January 2 post, are you still doing the exercises in that PT video? Does he have bladder control now? Which kind of vet said he was spinal walking? Would underwater treadmill be available in your area and an option for your family. This video explains just why this particular type of water therapy really helps to expedite learning how to walk again.
For at home water therapy you can employ the principals of water height you learn from the underwater treadmill video. Here are ideas for water therapy at home: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htm |
|
