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Post by Krysten & Angus on Nov 4, 2014 11:48:45 GMT -7
-- What is your dog's name? Oscar Your name - Krysten
-- How much does your dog weigh? 10 lbs
-- Miniature Dachshund - no, vet thinks its a ruptured disk in the middle of back but couldn't get definitive answer on xray but did see some calcification on two disks near tail.
-- What was the date you saw the vet and started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? 11/3.
--Some shivering, slow to move
10 lbs
Tramadol 50 mg - 1/4 tab twice a day - 11/3
Pred 5mg - 1/2 tab twice a day for 3 days then taper.
-- wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail? No
-- Bedding is wet
-- eating wet food, won't drink out of bowl but will drink water if I add it to bowl of wet food.
-- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? Normal.
I hope I'm posting this in the right place - I am just so lost right now. Oscar started acting weird Sunday night, by Monday morning he was ataxic, trembling, not wanting to stand. Got him to the vet immediately and she started him on above listed meds and gave me a referral for surgeon. After discussing with fiancé, unfortunately there is just no possible way we can come up with $5000 so after reading this website decided we would try conservative approach. Today he is unable to move back legs. I called the vet and she told me that it was either surgery or euth - there is nothing else she can do. Her statement was "since he's not better on the steroids, surgery was the only option" .... he's only had 2 doses!?! I guess I am just looking for some validation that we are making an ok choice attempting conservative treatment and there is a chance (even if its minimal) that he will recover somewhat from this. He is my child and I can't bear to see him like this and I feel like a horrible person for not being able to afford the surgery but I don't think I would be able to put him to sleep. I want to give him a chance, but I don't want to see him suffer either.
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Post by Lisa & Tucker on Nov 4, 2014 12:51:20 GMT -7
Hi Krysten,
I know this is a scary thing right now. But one of the moderators will be on and they can help you a whole lot. My dog, Tucker, had his episode on it progress rapidly. His happened on a Thursday but he didn't show signs until Saturday so I immediately crated him. On Monday I took him to the vet and she started him on NSAID and pain medicine. By Wednesday he could not walk. Dr. Sindl immediately put him on a steroid to try to get the swelling down. By Thursday we had no improvement and we were at the surgeons office and Tucker was going into surgery that same day.
There are a lot of people on here who have had great luck with conservative care. It sounds like to me you might want to find another vet. Any vet that would only give 2 doses of a steroid and then say they need to be put done would make me a little worried. Also the dosage of tramadol seems to be a little light. Tucker weighed 9 lbs and he was taking a 1/2 tablet every 8 hours. Just know you are in the right place. These people on here know IVDD and they know it with great expertise. They helped me through Tucker's IVDD and they will help you.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 4, 2014 19:16:53 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Krysten. First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your dog to get back to enjoying life after recovering. Euthanasia is not a treatment for IVDD and should not be a consideration at all. Conservative treatment is an option and dogs can recover using 8 weeks of strict crate rest, an anti-inflammatory to reduce the swelling and pain meds to keep pain under control. Even if Oscar doesn't regain use of his legs, he can still have a happy, full life. www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm
The hallmark of conservative care is 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for this current disc episode …. STRICT means No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No PT, no baths, no chiro (aka VOM)
Oscar is still showing signs of pain - shivering, slow to move. Please contact the vet ASAP and advise of the signs of pain that you're seeing so the pain meds can be adjusted. Your vet has a lot of room to move up on the dosage of the Tramadol, as Lisa mentioned above. Tramadol works best when given consistently every 8 hours. Gabapentin can be added and works well with Tramadol. Also Methocarbamol can be added - that addresses the pain of muscle spasms. There should be no signs of pain from one dose of pain meds to the next dose. Have no patience with pain as pain does hinder healing.
Usually the dosage of Prednisone we see prescribed is 5 mg 2x/day. The Prednisone works at reducing the swelling, which is pressing on Oscar's spine and causing the nerve damage. So it's imperative that an anti-inflammatory dosage be prescribed. The swelling can take up to a month to resolve. Your vet has given a very short time span for Pred before a taper starts. Since Oscar is still showing signs of pain, there should NOT be a taper at this point.
You need to get a hands-on-your-hands demonstration from your vet on how to express Oscar's bladder. Finding wet bedding indicates that Oscar's bladder is overflowing. That can stretch the bladder out of shape. Also, it can lead to urinary tract infections. It's very important that Oscar's bladder be expressed every 2-3 hours until you get proficient at it. Here's some info to read about expressing before your lesson from your vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm
Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory.
I have to agree with Lisa. I think you should look for a vet who is more knowledgeable and comfortable about treating IVDD. If you need help finding one, please let us know your location and we'll try to help.
Board-certified neuros (ACVIM) and ortho (ACVS) surgical specialists can be found at University vet teaching hospitals. You can locate others in your area here:
www.acvim.org [neuros]
online.acvs.org/acvsssa/rflssareferral.query_page?P_VENDOR_TY=VETS [orthos]
Dodgerlist Members' vet recommendations - dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting
If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet.
ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html
www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs.
With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The goal of our Forum is to support you, to teach you how to look up things at the original source point (a credible and authoritative resource), question everything and read so you become the most important part of your dog's health care team.
The unknown is simply too scary a place to stay in. Are your ready to get up to speed on all things IVDD and fight the IVDD enemy? Excellent page to start with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Are you ready? Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm
Add this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDord.htm
Tape this flyer to your fridge so the whole family knows what things are emergencies: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdf
Healing prayers for Oscar.
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Nov 5, 2014 10:08:39 GMT -7
Thank you so much for your responses.
I was able to get an appointment at the vet Oscar went to when we first got him, which is a little more expensive but more high tech equipment and better staff. The vet was amazing and is all for conservative treatment. He still had deep tissue response when she pinched his toes. I left him there for sedated xrays, bloodwork (which came back perfect), subq fluids, and an adequan injection. The vet was going to decide if we could up the tramadol or add additional pain meds based on his xrays and blood work results so I will discuss it with her when I pick him up. She would like to do pred 5mg twice a day for awhile, she didn't give me an exact number of days yet. She also gave us a quote for laser treatments (she recommended 5 treatments - 5 days apart.) Has anyone had success with laser therapy? Should we continue the adequan injections? I'm just so excited that she was willing to work with us to give him a chance to recover without surgery. I will update when I pick him up later this afternoon. Thanks again for your informative responses, this website is amazing and knowing that there are so many others that have gone through this that I can talk to you makes me feel a lot better.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 5, 2014 10:14:24 GMT -7
UPDATE: Wahooo... you did well.... kudo's for being on it to find a good IVDD vet.!! Keep us posted on all details of the meds, Pepcid AC, expressing bladder if control has been lost.... when he's home. ---------- Krysten, you vet is most clearly telling you that SHE is not comfortable in treating a disc disease. The two treatments are conservative treatment and surgery. Killing a dog due to disc disease is not a treatment. It is imperative that you get on the phone after very, quickly in a few minutes reading the summary of conservative treatment here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmOnce you have that quick view under your belt, these are the things to address asap this morning. -- Hire a vet who WILL support Oscar to help him heal -- Pred will need to be used more than 3 days. It can take anywhere from 7-30 days to get the swelling. You want to act quickly as once nerves are damaged for a period of time the have regrow...that can take months. Impeding swelling and getting it down asap with Prednisone helps to protect against nerve damage. -- Get word from your vet that Oscar has no health issue to keep him from Pepcid AC -- GI tract protection while on Pred. -- Oscar IS IN PAIN. Pain med need to promptly be adjusted: Tramadol at 3x aday and the right higher dose in mgs. Add in methocarbamol for pain stemming from muscle pain. -- Get a hands on top of your hands lesson in manually expressing the bladder IF bladder control is gone. That is he is no longer able to sniff an old pee spot and then choose to release urine there. Leaking when lifted is a sure sign that bladder control is probably lost. Review first to get more out of a lesson: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmLet us know what the new vet prescribes. Check our directory for vet recommendation or tell us your city/state...we may be able to help you find a vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgerycosts.htm |
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Post by Lisa & Tucker on Nov 5, 2014 14:53:27 GMT -7
Krysten,
How's Oscar? I'm so glad you changed vets. It sounds like this one will be a lot more helpful with Oscars IVDD. Tucker has been having laser therapy and in my opinion it has helped him a lot. He went back to our surgeon, Dr. Mullins, today for a recheck after his surgery. She said he is doing great and released him. We can now slowly start letting him get back to his normal life. But everyone on here recommends 6 weeks of crate rest and we are at 5 weeks so I'm going to keep him crated one more week.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 6, 2014 5:35:41 GMT -7
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Nov 6, 2014 7:02:14 GMT -7
Good Morning everyone! Oscar had an eventful day at the vet's. His xray revealed 2 herniated discs, but they aren't severe - the bone's aren't touching yet. She also did xrays of his chest, neck, bladder and colon. Neck and chest are fine, no broken bones, bladder wasn't distended and colon wasn't backed up. He received his first shot of adequan, 200ml of SubQ fluids. She also offered us an injection of Cerenia, but we declined for now because nausea doesn't seem to be an issue right now. She also expressed his bladder. We go back Friday for a quick recheck to make sure he's stable before the weekend and to express his bladder again (at that time, if his pain is better, I will learn how to express it - he was too tense yesterday, the vet felt it would be better if they did it) and more fluids. We go back Tuesday for full recheck to see if we can start tapering pred or need to up the dose, second adequan injection and first laser therapy treatment. Oscar now receives 1/4 50mg Tramadol every 6 hours. I have been sleeping on the floor next to his cage and last night he seemed far less restless and after his third dose on this schedule at 5 am he was able to sleep until 8:30! I am so pleased with this vet, and I now believe there is a real chance at a full recovery. Oh, and she said Pepcid was a great idea - so he will get 5mg once a day while on pred. Lisa ~ congrats on Tucker's release, that's GREAT news!  |
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Nov 6, 2014 7:30:14 GMT -7
Good morning Krysten & Oscar, my name is Debbie. I would just like to clarify one thing, you stated that the vet expressed Oscar yesterday and you will go back Friday for another lesson. What are you doing in the meantime? Oscar is being expressed, right? He needs expressing every 4 hours or so as not to damage the bladder, please advise.
IF, Oscar is experiencing pain in between doses, then the pain medication is not yet right. The dosage of the Tramadol can be increased and other medications can be added for full pain relief. Here is a list of common pain meds given during a disc episode: More reading on pain control: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm
Tramadol as the general pain reliever. It has a short half life of 1.7 hours and may need to be prescribed at a minimum of every 8 hours.
Methocarbamol treats muscle spasms stemming from aggravated muscles due to nerve trauma related to the spinal cord inflammation.
Gabapentin may be added to the mix for hard to control pain. Veterinarians are finding this medication works very well in combination with Tramadol.
Another great tip is to put your crate either on the bed in the middle of the bed or on a nightstand beside the bed. That way you can reach over and put your fingers in the crate and Oscar will be at eye level, which to him would be pleasing. Read more here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm
So glad you got the Pepcid AC on board - please let us know how Oscar is doing during the day. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 6, 2014 8:49:11 GMT -7
Krysten, the bladder needs to be expressed every 2-3 hours while on pred. Otherwise overflowing by reflex happens... not a good thing...causes UTIs and can cause permanent ruination of bladder tone. His pain should be fully in control dose to dose in one hour if the pain meds are correct. So you need to go back to the vet for a hands on lesson today, not waiting til next appt. If the pains meds still do not cover fully dose to dose, as it sounds like it is not, then please strongly advocate for adjusting them with today's visit to get an expressing lesson or by calling the vet now to let her know your observations of pain. 10 lbs --Tramadol 50 mg - 1/4 tab (12.5 mgs) every 6 hours. Every 6 hours certainly can be done, a gruesome schedule for you to awake nights. The better path may be to increase the dose and still be able to give every 8 hours so you too can get your rest. For example my 13 lbs dog too 50 mg every 8 hours. So discuss that option... more mgs.--Pred 5mg - 1/2 tab (2.5mg) twice a day Since he has pain, then you know he needs to be up at the anti-inflammatory level. Please advocate for getting that swelling down asap with the upper range of pred. --Pepcid AC 5mg TWO times a day because that give better round the clock protection.-- Methocarbamol - discuss getting this on board as most disc episode have a lot of muscle pain. Methocabamol deals with that kind of pain -- Gabapentin could be added in as the 3rd if you see the first two (tramadol and methocarbamol) are not fully working. Vets are finding good success with pain control as gabapentin works synergistically with tramadol. Why a cocktail of meds rather than just one pain med Robin Downing, DVM, CVA, DAAPM is one of only four veterinarians in the world to hold the Diplomate credential in the American Academy of Pain Management - the largest interdisciplinary pain management organization in human medicine. She explained in her lecture to veterinarians: It is always better to use a multi-modal approach to pain management - - both acute and chronic - - so that you may use lower doses of each agent you have chosen for your pain management protocol. Let us know you got an expressing lesson this morning (good to re-review video so you get more out of the lesson: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm and that pain meds have been adjusted for full control. |
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 6, 2014 10:31:08 GMT -7
Hi Krysten. I have been dealing with IVDD with my Nala for 7 years. She has been paralyzed in her back legs twice and recovered to walk again each time. Once with surgery and the second with conservative crate rest. I too could not afford the surgery the second time and crate rest worked just as well. She was on steroids during crate rest for 6 weeks and I didn't see any results for a month. Sometimes even though you can't see it the steroids are working to reduce the swelling. My vet, who is great, thought the 2nd time Nala went down she would never walk again. But even without the surgery that time she is still up and running. And even if she hadn't many dogs have a great life on two paws! There is an organization listed on dodgers list that will find you a free doggie wheelchair if it comes to that. Dogs don't care. Also, after crate rest you might check into rehabilitation with an underwater treadmill. It was great for helping Nala learn how to walk again. Don't give up on Oscar's recovery but one way or another he can still have a great life. Expressing seems really intimidating at first but you can do it. I watched a great video on youtube on how to express your dog. They described it a "picking a lemon" on your dogs tummy. Nala still gets expressed and it is now quick and easy! God bless you and Oscar. Julie and Nala |
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Nov 6, 2014 16:12:54 GMT -7
I had a friend come over this morning and show me how to express his bladder ( she was a vet tech for many years) so that will be done every 3-4 hours now.
I guess I worded my last update incorrectly - he isn't showing signs of pain anymore. I was trying to explain that he continued sleeping even after I got up and starting cleaning and working in the room he is in, which was a positive sign. Yesterday he would get up and try to stand anytime I moved and would watch me wherever I went. He seems much more relaxed today. But I will ask tomorrow about adding the additional meds suggested or at least having some on hand should he begin to show signs of pain.
Are the calming diffusers worth it in everyone's opinion? I want to make this as comfortable for him as possible and I know it must be so confusing for him, thinking he's in trouble and wanting to play with the other dogs.
I purchased a new firm bed for him today and made him some homemade heating pads filled with beans that he seems to be enjoying, he went to sleep as soon as he laid down on them.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 7, 2014 8:47:45 GMT -7
Krysten, that is good news, then Oscar is not in any pain... the current meds, doses, etc. are doing a good job of masking pain.
How wonderful to have your vet tech friend come to the house to show you how to express. When you are first learning and he is still on pred, do not be surprised that you may need to express every 2-3 hours to keep him dry. As you learn to feel the shape of the bladder with your fingers you can feel for the last stage where it becomes very flat...empty. Expressing often enough and emptying the bladder at each session is what prevents an overflowing bladder. I'd say after a weeks worth of expressing practice and maybe having your friend check your work after you express, you will achieve the level of proficiency needed to keep him dry. Might even try extending the time between expressings to 3-4 hours and then when off of pred likely go to every 4-6 hours.
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Aug 17, 2015 12:54:07 GMT -7
Hello, I know I haven't posted an update since the middle of Oscar's treamtent so I thought I would let everyone know how great he is doing and ask a few questions. Oscar went down last November. He had no use of back legs, no deep pain sensation, no bladder/bowel control. After 8 weeks of crate rest, steroids and pain meds he has improved greatly. We got the ok to start laser therapy after 6 weeks and did a few adequan injections. The laser therapy made so much of a difference. I am happy to report Oscar is pain free, off all meds and if you place his feet for him he can stand for 30-60 seconds and even right himself when he starts to sway - he just can't take a step yet. He uses a cart to play outside and go for walks, but is perfectly content "dragging" himself around inside. I just had a few questions I'm hoping you guys can help with 1) how long before you give up on them walking again? I know I've heard of some walking again a year or so after they healed. He has come a long way I just wonder if there is still a chance. 2) Teeth - he has stage 2 tartar on his back teeth. The Dr doesn't want to do a dental on him anytime soon so she prescribed periodent to be added to his food and I've seen a mild improvement but he won't allow me to brush his teeth. Any ideas on how to prevent further tartar buildup? 3) Boredom - how do you guys keep your dogs from getting bored? When he wants to play his brother and sister jump on the couch or run away. We play toys with him, take him out back to run around and even bought a swimming pool and lifejacket for him (but he hates water). Unfortunately right now it is either raining or too hot to walk on the pavement. Any suggestions for games or toys to play with him so he doesn't feel left out? Thanks, Krysten (if someone can tell me how to post a picture I have a few new pics of him in his wheelchair to add) |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 17, 2015 18:50:51 GMT -7
Krysten, thank you for letting us know how Oscar's doing. Does he have bladder control? Can he wag his tail specifically if you do some happy talk to him or when you show him a treat? If he can do a happy wag, you might investigate underwater treadmill. Many dogs who don't like water do just fine with the treadmill. Some of these tips can also be used with a $10 child's wadding pool. At home water therapy: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htm Are you doing at home ROM and massage for his back legs now that he has graduated from conservative treatment Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain the muscles with lost nerve connection. Therapy keeps muscles in optimal condition while in wait to receive regenerating axon terminals. There is really no substitution for brushing/rubbing the surface of the teeth best you can. If a very soft baby brush is not acceptable, try some gauze wrapped on your finger with a dab of the Periodent gel or some other flavor/brand toothpaste he will like. There is a need to kill the bacteria that produce the tarter at least once a day. My dog really likes the taste of these two products, may be Oscar would too? PetzLIfe Oral Care Gel salmon flavor and CET toothpaste with enzymes: Glucose Oxidase (Aspergillus niger) and Lactoperoxidase in Chicken flavor How about hiding games. A small treat hidden behind a leg of the couch, lowest shelf of bookcase, inside a turned overbox, or throw some treats in the grass into a shallow saucer of water. Dogs LOVE to work for their dinner by having to sniff and find. Do alone with Oscar until you know the other dogs will not get into a food fight in racing to find treats. Subtract the treats from their daily food portion to avoid weight gain.  ..  Where to upload to our Photo Gallery dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendar We'd love to have Oscar represented as a success story in the Calendar along with a few sentences to give members just starting the IVDD journey hope their dog can again enjoy life and family activities. |
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Aug 18, 2015 8:16:24 GMT -7
Paula, Thank you for the reply! He does have a happy tail wag but doesn't have bladder control. I have researched underwater treadmill before - I will have to look into that some more. I will definately order some of that toothpaste and keep trying to brush his teeth. Thanks for the game ideas - last easter I hid some eggs with treats in them and they loved it so I'll try doing that again for him. We do ROM and massage every night. His legs are incredibly strong - it amazes me! I will upload a picture now. He would honored to be included in the calendar! I'm so thankful to have found this forum - I'm not sure Oscar would still be here today if I hadn't. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 18, 2015 11:56:09 GMT -7
Krysten, thank your for putting Oscar in the gallery. He's quite a handsome dude! Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord. There are also some few cases where the wiring does not go exactly textbook. That is the leg control can come back before bladder control. Anyway here is the textbook order you can watch for. Often in water and the treadmill, where an owner did not see any leg movement, the dog was able to make subtle movement in the underwater treadmill. So if it is available you might sign up for one session to see where Oscar is and if he is ready for continued treadmill. 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. It does our hearts good to hear we have helped a dog and owner...that's the reason we all are here. We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal. We would like all of our members to pay forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate!
We depend on all members hand carrying our literature to their vets. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever they meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) to give out our little cards. Hey if anyone reading this has not yet ordered literature..... don't wait a minute more, ask Linda to send you a packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm
Please don't be a stranger. You have much to share with new members just starting a scary IVDD journey! |
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Oct 16, 2015 8:17:22 GMT -7
Hello again!
In recent discussions with a good friend who is a vet tech, she was telling me about how much success she has been having with using an exercise ball for physical therapy - laying the dog across the top - allowing just the tips of their toes to touch the ground. It stretches their spinal column and relieves some of the pressure, and in her geriatric and arthritic patients they have a lot of improvement in walking and less pain for a period of time after the session. Do you think this is something that may help or could it possibly cause more damage?
Has anyone tried this for IVDD?
Thanks!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 16, 2015 8:53:19 GMT -7
A vet tech certified in physical rehab who is IVDD knowledgeable would make sure that they are not putting stress on the back with any PT. A dog with IVDD, a progressive disease of discs degenerating to the point they no longer bounce back after the vertebrae pressures the disc, is very different than a dog who as arthritis in their joints and no problems with degeneration of discs. You will have to use your judgement what the vet tech has in mind, size of ball, etc.....too many things we cannot know or see from your writing this Forum. How does what is intended aligns with how we like to lift and carry a dog by supporting both ends and trying to keep the back horizontal to the ground? What is disc disease? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/what_is_disc_disease.html |
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Peyton
New Member
Life is better with a dog.
Posts: 111
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Post by Peyton on Oct 16, 2015 10:56:51 GMT -7
So glad Oscar is doing well! Krysten - You might try using a paper towel roll under Oscar's tummy. It provides support and allows him to keep four paws on the floor. You can roll it a little, too. It helps Millie with her balance and posture |
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Nov 5, 2015 6:26:25 GMT -7
Sorry guys, I hate to be so bothersome you have just been so helpful and I have new questions everyday! I haven't been able to locate a vet that does hydrotherapy, but I did find a vet only a few miles away that does acupuncture. Is it too late to start that? Is there still a chance it will be beneficial? Oscar is just so close to walking, I want to do anything I can to help give him that opportunity. I can't believe it's been exactly a year since he went down. You all truly are Oscar's guardian angels - he wouldn't still be here if I hadn't found this site and I can't thank you enough for that. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 5, 2015 8:12:11 GMT -7
Krysten, where is Oscar currently in his neuro functions? More exact detail to explain what you have observe to make him so close to walking.
He can wag his tail specifically when you have done some happy talk, correct?
Does he now have bladder control? That is he is able to sniff an old pee spot and the make the decision to mark/release urine there.
Have you observed any purposeful leg movement? For example when lying down he wiil use his back legs to help reposition himself to get comfy?
Has he tried to use his back legs to attempt to scratch his ears?
Have you seen him make an attempt to push himself up in to a standing position?
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Nov 5, 2015 8:29:20 GMT -7
Yes he wags his tail at happy talk, when he gets excited, at supper time etc. He can lift himself up so he is basically on his knuckles/top of his feet when he is eating or if gets really excited about something or when he's playing. When we do ROM and PT he has amazing strength and is able to kick his legs with a lot of force. If we stand him up and place his feet correctly he can stand for about 60 seconds and if he starts to sway he can correct himself - its only when he starts to take a step that he loses his balances and falls. He does not have bladder control, and he can't use his legs to scratch his ears or reposition himself.
It just breaks my heart that he can't walk yet. I know how far he's come and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel - I just want to help him get there. I'm fine if he never regains the ability to walk again, but I know it would make life easier for him. Simple things like scratching his own ear, being able to pee on his own, chase his fur siblings - it must be awful to just wake up one day and not be able to do those things.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 5, 2015 8:57:31 GMT -7
Krysten, so when he has pushed himself up in to a standing position with this back legs you are seeing that he makes an attempt to move the back legs to take a step? The usual order of neuro function return is bladder then leg use. But we have seen cases where this was not the case, and leg control came back before bladder control. Since acupuncture and laser light therapies stimulate the nerve cells with light energy, these therapies kind of kickstart nerves to regenerate. If one of these therapies fits your budget, I would give it a try. Have you tried water therapy at home? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htm The buoyancy of water supports weak legs so that they can more easily move in water where it is very hard for them to move on land against gravity. Are you using a sling to try some sling walking PT to see if his legs will move in a walking motion? Does his cart have the feature to not use the back leg support, but rather allows the legs to move in a walking motion as supervised slow PT? |
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Post by Krysten & Angus on Nov 5, 2015 9:11:23 GMT -7
Yes he attempts to step but its like he forgets how to properly place his feet and isn't sure of himself so he falls.
We do water therapy at home. We got him a life jacket and try in the tub and we got him a small pool. He's terrified of water so it's not as fun as I'd like to be, but he does "move" his legs in the water (whether that's him actually moving them, or just them moving from the water moving I'm not positive).
His cart does have the ability to have his legs down. I will try that next time we go for a short walk. I haven't tried a sling yet, I will have to purchase one. I'm just so nervous that he will hurt himself and we will end up going in the wrong direction! I just want to keep him in a bubble.
Thank you again for all your help.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 5, 2015 11:53:51 GMT -7
Knowing how to place feet correctly (knuckling) is a neuro function of being able to know where in space your feet are to be able to place a paw correctly. When the tub or pool water is still, place a treat in view and see if you observe any purposeful movement of back legs in a walking motion as he tries to get the treat. Since he knuckles, you will want to do the cart walking or sling PT walking in the house where he will not hurt his paws if dragged on rocky or grassy ground. Practice cart or sling waking PT on the carpet where he will have adequate traction. A sling can be along winter scarf, belt, ace bandage or a figure 8 sling.  |
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