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Post by Jeanne & Spart on Jul 22, 2015 7:38:44 GMT -7
Hi, my little guy Spart was recently diagnosed with IVDD and I am trying to get up to speed with the whole thing. He is approximately 4 1/2 years old & about 10.5 lbs, a doxie who was having problems with his back legs working properly especially when trying to poop. I suspect he has had the IVDD problem for a while as he has had on and off problems eliminating for the last year or two, possibly due to back pain. He had been in to the emergency vets twice and was diagnosed with gastrointestinal upset. Also had, prior to those visits, previous surgeries for eating rope dog toy that was stuck in his intestines, and again for eating a piece of canvas.
This last time, though, when he started having the elimination problem his back legs were unstable and he wasn't able to walk well or even stand well. Immediately took him to my vet who did electroacupuncture, which helped quite a bit. He has since been back for another accupuncture treatment and his legs are working much better.
Currently he is taking
[10.5 lbs]
Methocarbamol 125 mg ea 8 hrs,
Prednisone [as of 7/18]: 2.5mg ea 12 hrs,[ then taper 7/25]: (dose to go to 1x a day soon) and
Trazadone as needed for crate rest, where he is all the time now except when going out for potty breaks.
He gets a mix of pumpkin, canned food and dry food (except the dry food is now soaked in water until it is soft and chewy, he does not get it dry anymore).
I am trying to lower the "roof" of his wire crate lowered so he can come out of his plastic crate and have a little more room. First attempt did not work, trying to create a "dropped" roof with cardboard box material at the moment.
All comments and suggestions welcome, thank you.
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jul 22, 2015 9:10:48 GMT -7
Hi, Welcome to Dodgerslist. You've come to the right place to get info about IVDD.
First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your dog to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm
Here are some questions and comments that will help us address your concerns better.
☐ What is your name? We are a small friendly group and just go by first names.
☐ What was the date you went to the vet for this current disc problem... guessed it might have been around July 1.
Did the vet know what area of Spart's spine is affected? Is your vet a general DVM or a specialist (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)?
☐ What is the date prednisone started. What is the date of when the prednisone taper is to start going to 2.5mgs once a day?
☐ Is Spart's pain under control with his current medication? Signs that the current dose is not adequate are - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can't find a comfortable position. Arched back. Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. Your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds.
Also A stomach protector such as Pepcid AC is needed when a dog is on steroids. Ask you vet this question: "Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving the dogs 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. Since Spart has had previous stomach issues it is especially important that his stomach gets the protection it needs.
☐ Is Spart on a low-fat gastrointestinal food? If not you should discuss this whether your vet recommends a particular LF gastrointestinal food. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato.
For dachsie size dogs:
---To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day.
---To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day.
- Avoid yogurt and other milk products as most dogs are lactose intolerant.
- Avoid rice and other grains which tend to ferment and cause gas.
Often a low fat bland diet composed of a protein source (usually boiled & defatted hamburger or chicken) and carbohydrate source (mashed white or sweet potato is easily digestible) is used to help for a few days as stomach protection resolves GI track irritation. reference: healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/03/26/dealing-with-dog-diarrhea.aspx
☐ If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. www.ahvma.org/find-a-holistic-veterinarian/
Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs Crate Rest ☐ 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks & only out at potty times is the first step to help Spart's spine heal. STRICT crate rest means no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM) - Options for recovery suites
Wire crates are tolerated well by most dogs over the plastic airline crates. Wire crates can be purchased or modified so the top opens to lift the dog in and out of the crate. Playpens, ex-pens or with noted restrictions for pet strollers are other options. Size of the recovery suite should only be big enough to stand up, turn around and when lying down to fully stretch out legs. Pad out extra room with a rolled up blanket or towel
We have a nice summary of how conservative treatment works. Here is the link — look for the yellow button on our IVDD 101 page: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm
You may like to look over our member tips and ideas to help make crate rest go smoother for the next 8 weeks. 8 weeks is how long it takes for the disc to heal. Check out the rose color box to the far top left for lots of good supply tips for your dog's recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm
There is a lot to know and understand about the treatment of an IVDD dog. But you're on the right track by putting Spart on strict crate rest and medication for pain.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Jul 22, 2015 9:20:24 GMT -7
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Post by Jeanne & Spart on Jul 23, 2015 6:22:28 GMT -7
Thank you, I appreciate your input about his condition and the crate adjusting info! My name is Jeanne. Spart's first visit to the vet specifically due to his back legs not working was July 18, though he has been back and forth to vets since I got him from friends who couldn't keep him due to family emergency 3 1/2 years ago. He has had two surgeries for eating non-food items that didn't pass through his system, among other things. Anyway, at the vet visit on the 18th he had the electro accupuncture the first visit for this problem, and it helped quite a bit, but we went back a couple days later for another treatment as his one leg was going funky again, and that treatment helped even more (along with all the meds discussed previous e-mail). This is my 3rd vet since I got him, and she is very holistic along with discussing multiple options. Spart started on the prednisone on the 18th, and it is to taper to once a day on the 25th. He is also taking methocarbamol and has some trazadone (sp?) in the cabinet that can be used if he gets too upset in the crate when I have to go to work. Haven't needed it so far, but I suspect we may need it as he feels better but still on crate rest. He is currently eating his kibble (soaked in water or chicken broth so it isn't hard) along with a portion of canned food, a teaspoon of pumpkin, some cooked and pureed green beans, as he has had some problems passing stool in the past (possibly due to pain??).
Another thing I am going to need advice on is how to prevent/deter "dominance humping" as it were when it comes time for him to come out of the crate, I know, a long way off now but I'm sure it'll be here before I know it. I have 2 other dogs, the dominate one weighing approx. 2-3 lbs more than he and his brother and she lets them know she is the boss on a regular basis. All suggestions/ideas appreciated!
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jul 23, 2015 8:23:24 GMT -7
HI, It sounds like Spart has had a lot of issues in the past. He's lucky to have you to take care of him.
You mention that you think his problems pooping may be associated with pain. It so, you will want to discuss changing his dosage to address the pain with his vet. He should not be in pain during his recovery. Here is more information about pain control for you to review.
PAIN CONTROL
Pain should be fully in control in one hour when the dose in mg and the frequency is right for your dog and stay that way dose to dose. Pain not only hinders the healing process but is torture. This page has very good information as background to advocating for pain meds: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm
Having a vet who is taking a holistic approach and is open minded about treatment is great. Since you've been through 3 vets, I'm sure you understand how difficult it can be to find the right "fit" for you dog's needs.
Your message doesn't indicated that you've started Spart on Pepcid. If you have, great. If not, especially because he's had stomach issues in the past, please get him start on this right away.
If Spart is eating his current diet, it's probably not a good time to switch him to something new. Hopefully the pumpkin will help ease his pooping issues.
I've never had a dog with a dominance humping problem, so I'll defer question to others who may have experience and suggestions for you.
Keep up the good work and let us know how Spart's recovery progresses. |
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Post by Jeanne & Spart on Aug 1, 2015 4:46:00 GMT -7
Good morning,
My Spart has gotten to the point where he thinks he is fine and wants to run and chase critters and play with the other dogs. We are only about 2 weeks into the crate rest, and my problem is that he thinks he should be done with it. He gets very agitated in the crate if no one is in the room with him, and barks continuously. He chewed his pad and may have eaten pieces of it, so now has no pad in there as he has had two prior surgeries to remove non-edible items from his system that he swallowed but that did not pass through, and we don't want to do that again. So, he has a nylabone and a fixed water dish in there at the moment and it looks like a jail cell. Needless to say, nobody is happy about this. He is still taking the trazodone, but there is no apparent calming effect with that anymore. I left a message for my vet but haven't heard back yet . . . .
I would appreciate any and all suggestions on how to improve his quality of life for the next month or so while he is in the crate!! Thank you!!!
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 1, 2015 5:03:44 GMT -7
Glad Spart is feeling so much better, Jeanne. But yes, as they feel better, it can become a challenge in calm them in the crate and they really do need to lie quietly. Please do continue the strict crate rest for the full 8 weeks as that's how long it takes for the damaged disc to heal. Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to them and please also give us an updated list of meds. Is Spart on a taper of the Prednisone? What is the tapering schedule? Have you started Pepcid AC? Were pain pills stopped during the taper? To calm Sam in the crate, it would be a good idea to cover the top with a towel. That should help mellow him. It creates a den like feeling that dogs love. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Preferable is to start teaching what you do want before there is too much practice in doing the unwanted behavior. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will see they get rewards for four feet on the floor, quietly sitting, etc. Consider some of these ideas: -- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers:www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm -- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. -- Nan Arthur, CDBC, CPDT, KPACTP: According to the book "Stress in Dogs" by Martina Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt, the most well-behaved dogs get 17 or more hours of rest and sleep per day. Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. When dogs have a focus and an understanding about how to behave to get what they want, they are much calmer overall. To do this, each time your dog looks at you, say, something like, “Yes!” or use a clicker to mark the second he looks at you, and then give your dog a high-value food reward. [NOTE: for crate resting dogs, shift your body a bit] .... wait for your dog to look up at you again, say, “Yes,” and reward again. Do this exercise 10 or so times and then say, “All done,” and put the treats away. Come back later and do it again until you can see that your dog is really starting to make automatic eye contact in hopes you will say, “Yes,” again and give him his reward. [NOTE: treats should be subtracted from the normal daily kibble ration so as not to gain weight during crate rest.] wholedogtraining.com/images/stories/Are_all_dogs_trainable.pdf -- During the day try the coffee table or the dining room table so there will be a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the house from a high. -- Make the crate or ex-pen more cozy by draping a blanket over part of the top. Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows. More tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm |
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Post by Jeanne & Spart on Aug 1, 2015 5:28:05 GMT -7
We did try the towel on the top of the crate to calm him, but he managed to pull it into the crate and shredded it. He is almost done with the methocarbamal (sp?) and is on ▼prednisone every other day instead of every day now. Still gets the trazodone but it doesn't seem to be very effective. The vet did not want him on the pepcid. We leave the radio on when no humans are home, but the other two dogs are always here with him though they are able to go into other rooms and he isn't. He prefers his little travel crate (plastic with small holes all over it) to the larger wire crate (on which we lowered the roof using PVC poles fixed into place because other "ceiling" materials were shredded). For the record, the PVC poles work very well as he cannot chew them.
We will work on the self-calming exercises & your other suggestions, and hopefully the vet will get back to me soon. Thanks for your quick reply, I appreciate it!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,564
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 1, 2015 9:11:44 GMT -7
Jeanne, very inventive and good idea with use of PCV poles to lower the ceiling!! Can you share a picture with us? Upload to: www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=2LOGIN: username: Dachsie password: dodgerslist14 What is the reason your vet did not want to use Pepcid AC? Was it liver, heart or kidney issues that Spart has? Has Spart had a recent blood test to verify the health of his organs for using prednisone? |
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Post by Jeanne & Spart on Aug 5, 2015 10:42:00 GMT -7
Hi, tried once too often to login and now the photo site says I am banned. My bad. Is there something I need to do to get back in to post the pvc pics?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,564
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 5, 2015 13:06:13 GMT -7
Jeanne you can send theJPGs and your caption of explanation to: photogallery@dodgerslist.com
FYI, I just logged in and it was working. May just have had to wait to try again?
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Post by Jeanne & Spart on Sept 19, 2015 6:08:02 GMT -7
It has been a while since I was here; Spart is at the point where, once I get some ramps completed and all three dogs trained on them, he will probably be ready to come off leash and room restrictions, and have access to the rest of the house, except maybe the stairs. He has been limited to those areas that were made back friendly with the furniture blockers and foam stairs for a while now and has done well. I am scared to let him have his freedoms, though, so afraid I have missed something and he will re-injure himself as a result. I know there is a good essay here somewhere that addresses those fears, would you please remind me where it is so I can read it again? Thank you.  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,564
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 19, 2015 8:15:50 GMT -7
Jeanne, sounds like you are doing all that is possible to provide a back friendly environment for Spart. There is a wonderful essay to help you get your thoughts together about living with an IVDD dog. There are several other discussions that may be useful to you on the Graduate board along with the one on "Living with the fear of IVDD" The direct link to the "Liviing with the fear" is dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivddPlease stick around and let us know how things are going as Spart transitions back to his freedoms. |
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Post by Jeanne & Spart on Nov 11, 2015 11:06:01 GMT -7
It has been a while since I've been on here. My Spart is now able to roam and run in the yard off leash (fully fenced yard, but wasn't allowed to run previously) and we have begun taking regular walks again. Pretty sure the vet will consider him 'recovered' when we can see her, but she had some medical issues that kept her from her practice for a month and since then there have been scheduling conflicts due to my employment. Hope to get in to see her soon, she has 'clinics' at local pet friendly locations rather than an office.
At any rate, we built a ramp for the bedroom so he no longer sleeps in a crate, and he has picked up using the ramp better than the other 2 dogs have. Also have a ramp outside that they use instead of the back steps. Permanent baby gate by the basement stairs which he is not allowed on. I am sorry to say I forgot how to post pictures here.
I sooo very much appreciate this website and all the valuable information and support available here. Thank you all for the support and being part of his recovery!!
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Peyton
New Member
Life is better with a dog.
Posts: 111
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Post by Peyton on Nov 11, 2015 11:16:06 GMT -7
Jeanne, so glad to hear how well things are going and that you have done so much to help Spart get around safely! Awesome job!
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