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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 10, 2015 20:43:53 GMT -7
Hello all, On Monday morning I woke up to find my Ziggy no longer in bed with me. This was not abnormal as he sometimes leaves the bed and moves under it. I have a crate at the foot of the bed to allow for an easy transition to the floor. I am assuming this was my downfall as when I called for him I heard a whimper from under the bed. I found him unable/willing to move. I have always had doxies and was aware of IVDD so I knew time was of the essence. I wrapped him up and rushed him to my vet. I knew what it was but in my heart I didnt want to believe it until the vet said it. We instantly looked at options and once he did the Deep Pain test and my Ziggy failed I knew it was surgery. He got out of surgery fine and the vet said he had minimal damage to his spinal cord. The problem was his disc around his t12 and t13.. i need to verify specifics. I got to hold him today and he is on track to return home tomorrow to the crate i have set up. I have transformed my dining room into a rest and recovery room for us both.. moved a TV in.. set up the air mattress beside his crate and its right beside the kitchen so he will not be alone. They tested his deep pain again today and got no response and he is not urinating on his own. I know this will be a long road and I am trying not to be discouraged. I am glad I found this site as the success stories are amazing. Questions: 1. Is it ok for me to take my dog to work with me in a hard bottom soft sided carrier? 2. Just to verify I can start the acupuncture before meeting with the vet for physical therapy after 6 weeks? so like i could start acupuncture next week?  |
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 10, 2015 21:37:25 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Derek! How exciting to have Ziggy coming home tomorrow. Here is a list of discharge questions you will want to ask when you pick him up. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmSince Ziggy can't urinate on his own, he will need you to express him. Please ask them to teach you how with a hands on your hands lesson.. To get more out of the lesson please read and watch the videos on this page.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmYes it is ok to take him to work with you, just make sure that the soft sided crate is well padded and strapped in to avoid slippage for sudden stops and turns.. Acupuncture and Laser therapy can be started at any time: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingacupuncture.htmI think that is great that you set up the dining room as the recovery area with his crate and a bed for you. He will feel so much better having you near by. We kept our Tyler near us at all times too. We had a recovery suite crate in each room we spent time in including our bedroom.. Please let us know what medications Ziggy comes home with, including the dosage and frequencies given.. Also let us know what your Vet recommends for PT during his recovery. Healing prayers for Ziggy.. |
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 11, 2015 17:36:01 GMT -7
Hey.. thanks for responding.. Ziggy arrived home today.. he is very grumpy and seems to be struggling with trying to figure out to maneuver without being able to control his lower half.. im also starting to regret getting hardwood floors put in as it was easy for him to get around with four paws but seems slippery for just two paws pulling extra weight.
he was sent home with the following meds:
Carprofen (25 mg) one caplet every 12 hours unless he vomits, stops eating or becomes lethargic.
Tramadol (50 mg) one caplet every 8 hours
Cephalexin (100 mg) two capsuls every 12 hours.
no additional meds. they did teach me how to express his bladder as well how to hold up his rearend so he can go outside but he seems to have have trouble with the sling as well.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 11, 2015 19:20:31 GMT -7
Dereck, glad to hear Ziggy is home! He just had a very major surgery (muscle tissue cut, bones drilled) and should be on crate rest except for doing the surgeon-directed PT. Scooting would not be PT as it is not slow, deliberate and controlled practice of correct form. I think Texas A&M explains best why crate rest which we often see prescribed for 6 weeks. Vertebral column injury and surgery can disrupt the normal stabilizing structures of the spine such as muscles, bone, joint capsules, and the intervertebral disk. Excessive, unrestricted activity after surgery or certain injuries can lead to vertebral column destabilization and prolonged healing of the injury site. The intervetebral disk, in particular, is very slow to heal and healing may be incomplete; excessive vertebral column motion after disk surgery may therefore lead to recurrence of disk herniation. Additionally, animals that are weak or incoordinated may accidentally traumatize themselves, leading to orthopedic and soft tissue injuries.
So Ziggy should only be out of his recovery suite at potty times to express and for you to do the surgeon directed PT. -- For how many weeks did your surgeon say crate rest should be? -- What did the surgeon want you to do for PT? If the vet wants you to do any sling walking, then carry Ziggy to and from a place that has good traction. Outside, rug runner in the hall. If Ziggy does not have bladder control, then he likely is not able to move his back legs at all. The concern with sling walking is dragging paws, damaged skin. Did the vet advise any of these type of PT for the back legs? -- How much does Ziggy weigh? Is the tramadol keeping all pain subdued dose to dose? That is you are not seeing any shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in the recovery suite such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, Not his normal perky self? --- Are you expressing every 2-3 hours as you learn to keep him dry between sessions. When proficient you can easily move to every 4-6 hours. With a dog that needs expressing there is no need of a sling for expressing. -- If you specifically do some happy talk to him, can he wag his tail with happiness? --Carprofen, is likely to cause GI tract upset. We have seen too much of that, so have taken to following those vets who are proactive to prevent vomit, diarrhea. The manufacturer pkg insert warns about gastrointestinal problems as the natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Red flag signs of GI upset of not eating, vomit, red or black bloody diarrhea can quickly lead to bleeding ulcers or life threatening holes in the stomach or intestine. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, 5mg Pepcid AC (generic name is famotidine) 30 mins prior to NSAID and thereafter every 12 hours can protect. Give NSAID carpofen with a meal for extra protection. Find famotidine at the grocery store. Knowledge about each med your dog takes is the added layer of protection, see links below for learning. The usual dose during a disc episode is Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. Give the anti-inflammatory with a meal as added protection. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html I keep this vet page bookmarked myself: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html |
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 11, 2015 20:39:55 GMT -7
Hey Paula,
Thanks for the questions.. ive tried my best to answer them.
my vet said he should be on crate rest for 6-8 weeks. they want to see him in at 2 weeks and then again at 6 weeks.
They didnt really saying anything about PT but they showed me how to sling him to take him out to poop.. however im now sure how to tell if he has to poop as he use to just go to the door anytime he wanted outside but of course now he cant get to the door.
Ziggy is 18 pounds.. i am not sure he does try to move but he is not very good at it so i sometimes offer help when it looks like he is trying to switch sides to lay on.. the said thing is before all this his fav. way to lay and sleep was on his back and it looks like he tries to roll over sometimes to get in that postition and quickly realizes he cant.
I have tried to express him.. the vet said he was very easily expressed however they showed me at the vet only a couple drops came out because he had been expressed about an hour and a half before. I tried about an hour ago and only a couple drops came out and he did not seem to happy about what i was doing... how long or at what point should i go to the vet if i cant get a steady stream?
No.. i have tried happy talk and his tail does nothing.. ive also tried rubbing his tail as prior to the surgery that that was his least favorite part to be touched and he would always quickly move it out of your hand. He did wag his tail at the vet prior to the surgery.
I will ask about the pepcid ac... he ate yesterday for me at the vet and for them today. I offered him dinner and he was not very interested in it but he did eat the chicken jerky stick i gave him prior to dinner.
Im still trying to figure out what he wants and needs.. hes always been a very vocal dog with grunts and stuff directing you to what he wants.. he loves to be fully covered and is having trouble getting himself covered and uncovered so ive been having to help him with that.
And what about taking pills.. since he has been home he has not ate dinner like i said but he ate the jerky.. i tried to give him a pill but no matter what i put it in he has no interest in eating.. not chicken, cheese, turkey, sausage, green beans, carrots, peanut butter.. he just turns his head.
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 11, 2015 22:44:46 GMT -7
Hi Derek,
He likely has an upset stomach and also when they are in pain they lose their appetite. Call the Vet and ask right away about putting him on Pepcid AC to help his tummy as Paula mentioned, also let them know his refusal to eat and take his meds.. And about problems expressing.
For meds make sure not to have any Tramadol dust on your fingers or on the meat it's hidden in..It is very bitter and tastes terrible and once they get a taste of it it they will refuse to take it or anything for fear of that taste. For Tyler, I used lunch meat and I would use the 3 treat trick.. One piece of lunch meat with nothing in it.. One with the med and one to chase it with, also with nothing. The idea is to give the first.. with the second with the med wrapped in it in sight...They gulp the second with the med because they are anxious to get the third treat.. This always worked with my Tyler after his surgery.
The first day or two home are a big adjustment.. It will get better once he is eating and drinking as well as taking his meds.. He hasn't been drinking and that is why you aren't getting a urine stream yet.
Keep trying to tempt him with favorite foods.. I worry about the Chicken jerky... There have been many recalls on chicken jerky treats that have made many pets sick or worse.. Most are made from ingredients sourced from China.
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 12, 2015 2:13:04 GMT -7
Hey Pauliana,
Success! at a little before 3 AM Ziggy sat up in his cage very grummpy.. I said ok lets try this again... i got him over the pee pad and with minimal pressure a pretty steady stream of pee came out.. i got some on my pants knee because i was kneeling on the pee pad but i was too excited to care!
Yes i will call them in the morning for the pepcid ac before giving him the next dose of the one pill. they did say to stop giving if he vomits or diarrhea or lethargic or stops eating.
To clarify i keep saying chicken.. it was lamb.. its by Dogswell and is the happy hips formula which is good for joints and is made in the USA.. im pretty sure they have not had any recalls.. i normally stay pretty up to date and only buy stuff from the USA, Canada, or New Zealand (tripe mainly from there).
Nice trick on the tramadol.. ill have to grab some lunch meat tomorrow as I am vegan and tend to not have meat products around.. the only reason i have what i had is from leftover foods my friends have left at my house the past two days.
Is it normal for them to complain and look so uncomfortable with there two side choice layings.. its like he sits up because he is tired of laying but when he goes to lay back down it looks like a struggle/frustration so i try to help with laying his back end to one side and if that doesnt seem to make him happy i lay it to the other and he normally settles but not with out making his frustration noises. (again ziggy has always been a very vocal dog since puppy.. the noises he is making i know all to well.. they are the noises of frustration when he couldnt quit get the blanket unfolded and over him previously.. or the "hey i know my toy is on that counter and i need you to get it right now" frustration noises.)
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 12, 2015 6:29:56 GMT -7
Hi, Derek. When you speak to the vet this morning about adding the Pepcid AC and to let him know about Ziggy's lack of appetite, I would also tell them about his difficulty getting into a comfortable position. They may want to adjust his pain meds. Gabapentin works well along with Tramadol and Methocarbamol works on the pain of muscle spasms. Here's our page on meds for more info: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmGood job on expressing him this morning! You will need to express every 2-3 hours until you become good at completely emptying his bladder and can almost feel your fingers touching as the bladder will be flat. Sometimes it helps to completely empty the bladder by waiting a minute or so after the first stream of pee to let the bladder reform and then try again. Also, the bladder moves as it empties and sometimes it slips out of your hand and moves back towards the hip area. Ziggy has most likely also lost bowel control - you can also express for poop, though it isn't necessary as reflex will take care of that but it does help in avoiding accidents. You can find a lesson expressing for poop and how to figure out the timing on the same page as bladder expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmIt can take 2-4 weeks for the swelling from the surgery to resolve so you may not see any improvements during that period of time. That may be what's causing the lack of a tail wag that was seen before the surgery. Sometimes there's a worsening of neuro function right after surgery. Hang in there - it's very early days in his healing. Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to them this morning. Healing prayers for little Ziggy. |
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 12, 2015 10:26:55 GMT -7
Hello all,
So last night was rough.. up about every two hours when he would sit up and whimper.. he will lay quietly asleep for about two hours and then just sit up.
He still has not ate anything. I am trying not to be discouraged. Because he wont eat anything i cant get him to take his antibiotics.. i fight with him to get him to take the pain pill but i dont want that to wear off. I am waiting for the vet to call me back but i spoke to a technician this morning and she told me to discontinue the Carprofen to see if he gets his appetite back.
On the plus it seems when i express his bladder it sometimes starts to sputter like he is doing it.. and i def. know he feels something because if i squeeze to long or to hard he lets me know with a grumble.
Thanks for the video on expressing poop.. they said he was pooping on his own but i think he is afraid of going in the house on a pee pee pad (you know because he is trained not to go in the house) and its very cold outside here in iowa.. i tried to take him outside but he starts to shiver and i cant imagine thats good for anything. he was ripping some pretty smelly farts and i saw him trying so i did the rubbing technique you showed and we got some poop out.. it was between solid and wet (since he has been eating wet food and not dry like normal) and looked pretty normal in color.
Ill let you know what the vet says when they call me.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 12, 2015 11:30:40 GMT -7
Derek, please make it a priority to get Pepcid AC on board today asap. Carprofen stays in the system for some number of days even after you stop it. If carprofen is to be stopped, it is very likely additional pain meds will need to be on board so Ziggy does not suffer post-op pain. With pain you can't care for him properly, he can't get a good nights healing sleep. Remember he just had a very major surgery, just like a very, very bad cut will swell up be painful, post op pain comes from swelling from the procedure itself. Have no patience with pain, be a greasy wheel for Ziggy the same as you would for yourself if you had pain. Discuss with the surgeon about gabapentin. A tramadol/gabapentin is pretty typical for post-op pain. As always look up meds yourself so you have an understanding of what you are advocating for: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlIt may be best to pill Ziggy if he won't take them voluntarily tucked into a yummy treat. Try this trick for preparing pills to see if you can get Ziggy to voluntarily take on his own. Prepare three treats, one will have the pill inside. Give the first plain treat with #2 pill treat in view. The idea is a greedy gulp to get the next. With #2 in the mouth have #3 plain treat in view. Most dogs like sweet banana. The pill will stick inside a little ball. If need be wrap with a thin piece of deli meat to make even more yummy. The small size marshmallows also make a good pill pocket as the stickiness keeps the pill from falling out. |
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 12, 2015 13:47:39 GMT -7
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 12, 2015 19:29:21 GMT -7
Ok we are back from the vet. First off let me say.. boy is this a learning ill never forget. So it seems part of Ziggy's discomfort is my lack of correctly assisting him with his pee. He seems much more calm and relaxed now that that has been fully relieved. To be safe we did a urinalysis which came back fine. His temp was a little high.. not even a full degree so I am keeping an eye on that tonight. He still is showing no interest in food but we are going to wait it out and hopefully i can get some of the Pepcid AC in him when giving him his pain pill. The vet worked with me more on expressing his bladder which i will continue to do tonight but i am meeting her in the morning so she can check my progress and verify his temp is down and see if he is eating yet.
No adjustment to meds yet!..
HOWEVER.. GOOD NEWS.. when i was doing his bladder i thought i felt him trying to take control.. the vet has verified that YES he is starting to regain some control of his bladder as she only had to help him a little and he finished by himself and she could feel him controlling the muscles.. of course i am trying to not get my hopes up but i always like to try to find a positive!
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 12, 2015 20:57:45 GMT -7
Have you actually tried the sniff and pee test yet? The "Sniff and Pee" test verifies if bladder function has returned: Let the dog sniff a previous pee spot in the grass. If the dog urinates right after, that shows a The "Sniff and Pee" test verifies if bladder function has returned: Let the dog sniff a previous pee spot in the grass. If the dog urinates right after, that shows a message has been able to travel from the brain to the bladder! It will be necessary to manually check after urination until you are satisfied the dog can empty the bladder fully. Let us know what you observe when you try this. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmGo ahead and get your hopes up, it's ok. We all have to think positive about our babies recoveries. Ziggy is moving in the right direction at his on pace, each dog heals different and there is no timeline for nerves to heal. |
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 12, 2015 21:21:58 GMT -7
Hey Debbie.. i have not tried the Sniff and pee test yet.. It is very cold here in Iowa right now and we most of his pee spots and grass are covered in snow.. im hoping it warms up some so i can get him outside but the high today was 9 Degrees :-(
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Post by Maegan & Tula on Feb 12, 2015 23:53:32 GMT -7
Hey, Derek,
Just checking in to see how you and Ziggy are doing... Tula is doing well - walked a little bit today, and went to the bathroom on her own. Very good to see that. The trick you told me about with the lunch meat worked great, as did getting all Tramadol residue off my fingers. It's bitter and, they hate the taste. Does Ziggy have a Fentanyl patch? Tula got one, and it's basically doggie morphine. We have to take it off this Saturday, which will be interesting.
I am from Ohio, so I understand the cold weather you are experiencing. My parents have the same weather... Definitely not dachshund-in-recovery weather. I am lucky that the weather here in WA. has been in the 50's.
Did anyone tell you about the 'rice heating pad' thing? I just tried it, and Tula seemed to like it.
Anyway, I'm spending the night on the floor again so I can lie down next to her crate - not fun, but she gets really antsy without me.
We with you guys all the best - Ziggy looks like a sweetheart!
Maegan
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 13, 2015 8:18:17 GMT -7
Hey Derek, I feel your pain with the cold/snowy weather. I know I'm not there living it but is there any way you could just shovel a small area by your front door so you could just pick Ziggy up and run out the door and let him try to pee? That may be all he needs to relieve himself. Has he ever used pee pads? They make that fake pee scent to dab on a pee pad so Ziggy could smell it and possibly try to pee on top of it. I have used it before housetraining puppies.
How is Ziggy's attitude this morning? Is he alert and up looking around?
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 13, 2015 10:47:44 GMT -7
Maegan- Thanks for asking.. glad your little one is walking around.. is she scooting or is she starting to use her back legs? no Ziggy did not get the patch..
I did see a suggestion about the rice heating pad.. i had a little rice pad with lavender that was in an eye mask thing so i took it out and was using it but since his temp was up last night I removed it.
Debbie- We did remove some of the snow.. my Roommate also has a little Doxie so we had to make room for him to go out. I still feel like Ziggys pain is not managed as well as it could be so i dont want to try the sling until we get that under control. We did go to the vet this morning.. his temp has returned to normal and since i started the pepcid ac he has shown a little interest in food.. She said that if he starts eating again she can prescribe him a higher dose of pain killer (dont know if she means the same thing or switching to another pill) But first he needs to be getting something in his stomach.. she gave me some Dogsure and some Nutri-cal to try to ignite a hunger in him.. i can rub the Nutri-cal on his nose and he licks it off and offer the Dogsure after pills which is when he always drinks. I really think some of his discomfort again was from me not being able to fully express his bladder.. we did some hands on work this morning together and i got his bladder fully expressed and now he seems to be resting better and not whimpering.. I thought by watching the video and them explaining to me i got it but its def. a learning curve. He is alert and looks around.. his eyes follow me when i move about or talk to him.
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 13, 2015 13:52:31 GMT -7
Not sure if there is a better place to put this suggestion but here it is: Since Ziggy is not eating the vet taught me a little trick to get some food in his belly and hopefully ignite his own interest in eating. If you take soft food and stick it in his checks (like a chipmunk) he will eat it.. been slowly feeding him all day and he is getting more relaxed about it and take it faster..
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 13, 2015 14:40:03 GMT -7
I am so proud Ziggy is eating, my Rooter lost all interest in eating after his second surgery and he lost three pounds which scared me to death but my vets did not get to concerned. I offered him everything in the world and finally he started eating the canned version of his current dry food. I will remember your chipmunk trick just in case I ever need it again.
I'm definitely not a vet and I don't claim to be but my dogs have had three IVDD surgeries. My vet/surgeon never pulled Rooter off his pain medication when he would not eat. I do not know if this is right or wrong, some of the other Moderators may be able to give you a clearer picture than I but if you feel like Ziggy is experiencing pain then please talk to your vet since he is eating now. The Tramadol dose is good but he can add other pain medications to the mix to bring pain under control. Methocarbamol treats muscle spasms stemming from aggravated muscles due to nerve trauma related to the spinal cord inflammation and Gabapentin may be added to the mix for hard to control pain. Veterinarians are finding this medication works very well in combination with Tramadol.
Signs of pain are: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move in her crate, tight tense tummy. If you are seeing more than one sign of pain, you will need to get back with the vet and strongly advocate for pain med adjustments.
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 13, 2015 15:07:54 GMT -7
oh wait.. to clarify she is not pulling him off pain meds.. he is still taking his ▲Tramadol and we moved it from every 8 hours to every 6.. I am not sure what pain reliever she wants to add but she did say he cant take it on an empty stomach or if he is not eating regularly.. if I can show her in a day or so that he is eating about a palm size of food from me (and she doesnt care what it is as long as its something) she will give me the additional meds
Does anyone have any suggestions... I am starting to lose my patience.. the vet says they wont change his pain pills till he is eating sorta regularly... but he seems to be in so much pain.. ive been there twice in the past two days and have explained that he is always shaking.. not really sleeping.. and always seems stiff.. has anyone else ran into this .. i dont know block.. and if so how did you remedy it?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 13, 2015 18:49:52 GMT -7
If you can not get in touch with the surgeon, then you are forced to go to ER tonight to get help for the pain.
Hopefully IVRC (Iowa Veterinary Referral Center) will have a vet on staff you can talk with over the phone who can look at Ziggy's records so you do not have to travel to ER. Ask questions, know the names of everything, have them write it down for you if necessary. This mystery pain med should have been discussed so you are not in the dark. YOu are in charge of Ziggy so you need to be totally IN on the treatment and what is next. Why no pain meds unless he eats, etc.
Taking gabapentin does not require food to take and it works synergistically with Tramadol. Discuss that med with the vet you are able to get in contact with.
Strongly discuss getting a 2nd stomach protector on board: sucralfate.
Is his temperature still normal? Look at his butt hole/anus, is it tightly closed or a some what open? If you touch him does he seem more in pain just from a touch?
18 lbs
Carprofen (25 mg) 2x/day STOPPED 2/12
Tramadol (50 mg) every 6 hours
Cephalexin (100 mg) two capsuls every 12 hours.
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 13, 2015 19:31:45 GMT -7
Hey Paula,
IVRC has vets there 24/7 i talked to a vet.. i asked about Gabapentin but he said it takes a few days to start working. They suggested that since he has eaten some and i have him on the pepcid AC to try the carprofen again since the only reason we stopped it was because he hadnt ate for a while.. he had no other adverse effects to it so cant say it was directly the cause of the not eating. His temp is still normal.. ive been checking and weirdly enough i know how his but was before all this and i can say it looks pretty normal.. its not tightly closed.. and now if i touch him he doesnt mind at all.. ive been doing some range of motion with his back legs everytime he flips sides and doesnt mind. I will say since i gave him the Carprofen an hour ago he has stopped shaking. So fingers crossed.
Derek
(sorry if i seem annoying or on here a lot.. I just want to make sure im doing everything i possibly can)
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 13, 2015 19:50:55 GMT -7
You are not annoying. Glad to hear the NSAID Carprofen has helped with pain. Tramadol and NSAIDs are also good combos, work well together to deal with pain. Do keep your eye on the pain resurfacing nearing next doses. If so, do not hesitate to report pain to the vet. There is no reason Ziggy should be in any pain when there are plenty of options to have it fully in control GABAPENTIN Oral Bioavailability in dogs In dogs, oral gabapentin is well-absorbed in the duodenum, with peak levels occurring approximately one to two hours after administration. It is partially metabolized by the liver and excreted by the kidneys. Gabapentin has a short half-life of between two to four hours. www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/learning-center/professional-monographs/gabapentin-for-veterinary-use.html |
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 14, 2015 11:46:18 GMT -7
YAY... Ziggy slept for 4 straight hours last night before wanting help flipping over... and he ate all on his own this morning which made giving him his pills soooo much easier.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 14, 2015 13:48:04 GMT -7
Derek, so good to hear pain is under control. Healing and your ability to care for Ziggy is greatly hindered when there is pain. Hope to hear all is good and will be smooth sailing here on out.
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 14, 2015 18:02:28 GMT -7
Hello all.. i dont know if i worry too much or if this is normal.. but i am curious.. during the healing process did anyone have issues with the dog not wanting to stand up while you emptied the bladder.. like ziggy will stand up everyonce in a while but when i get him out on the pee pee pad to empty his bladder he tries to lay down and doesnt want to stand up? is that normal or just him being drugged up/tired.. i try to do some range of motion with his front paws like i do his back ones but he pulls them away from me. He is still eating and drinking though.. i just want to make sure these are not signs of things getting worse.. i think i remember reading in a post that someone said they can be a little worse after surgery until the inflammation goes down but i cant find that post again.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 14, 2015 19:26:19 GMT -7
Dereck, if Ziggy does not yet have leg function, he may not be able to maintain a standing position at potty time.
Because Ziggy's front legs can move on his own, he doesn't like you doing what he can do for himself.... ROM— he might be OK with relaxing massage though. His back legs are the ones that are paralyzed and need you to do PT for them.
Also if bladder control is starting to come back, he will not like being expressed and try to avoid you doing that. I suggest you give the sniff and pee test to see just where Ziggy is on bladder control.
The only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You would then do quick express checks each potty time to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord. Let us know what you observe Ziggy to be on the list below, can he do a happy tail wag yet?
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at happy talk, seeing you or getting a treat or meal. Ziggy ?
3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.
4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.
5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 15, 2015 9:42:30 GMT -7
I feel like this thread has become a documentation of a bad recovery. Had to take Ziggy back to the vet this morning. He is staying there under observation till the surgeon can look at him tomorrow. Last night he was refusing to want to sit up.. started having wierd breathing patterns and then his third eyelids were up..
Update: as i was typing this i got a call from the vet... she said ziggy is not doing good and they are doing xrays and bloodwork..
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 15, 2015 9:58:21 GMT -7
Oh Derek, we will be praying for you and Ziggy. I want you to be aware of something, I sure hope this is not what it is but I want you to read all about it so you can be prepared one way or another, Myelomalacia. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Myelomalacia.pdfThe cause of Myelomalacia or how it progresses is still unknown and is another disease that could follow on the heels anytime the spinal cord is injured. Myelomalacia is not common and once thought to be rare, however we are finding that perhaps it is not as uncommon as once thought. Deep pain sensation would be lost, more pain than the original disc episode. Just so you have some peace of mind it would be good to make sure your vet knows the signs and you two can communicate just in case Myelomalacia might happen. Many vets have never observed a case of Myelomalacia because it is so uncommon. So print out this list of symptoms below to discuss with your vet in order to promptly get vet help at any hour of the night or day. With Myelomalacia, what happens basically is that the spinal cord starts to die from the point of the spinal cord trauma moving forward toward the head. It can happen fast, within hours. It is a very painful ending.. making a dog unable to breathe. There is no cure for Myelomalacia and it is fatal. Should a dog be developing myelomalacia, before there is difficulty breathing, you would want to help to cross to the bridge to spare a very painful death. Symptoms of Myelomalacia: * about 3-4 days into recovery, they become painful. Within the first week, they are in a LOT of pain. * development of excruciating pain (more than just pain from the original disc herniation) • even the strongest pain meds do not help * acute disc extrusion with no deep pain sensation * loss of anal tone, the anus hangs open, (anal flaccidity) and are flexia (below normal or no reflexes) * loss of cutaneous trunci reflex at a level more cranial to a previous evaluation over a period of hours to days with or w/o surgery * development of fever (normal rectal temperature is 100.5 to 102.5 degrees Fahrenheit) * sudden twitching or jerking of the neck and/or head * loss of voice, hoarse bark * can't hold body up, can't hold head up * increased respiration/ labored breathing • hyper-esthesia (over-reaction to any touch sensation on body) More information: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Myelomalacia.pdfI'm definitely not saying this is what Ziggy has, I just want you to know about "M" and be prepared, just in case! My prayers go out to you during this difficult time and we will be thinking about you. |
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Post by Derek & Ziggy on Feb 16, 2015 11:22:30 GMT -7
It is with a heavy heart that I share the news that yesterday I had to let me sweet baby boy go. He did develop Myelomalacia. The vet said it was about a 1% chance.. not sure how accurate that is. I appreciate all your support and help while I went through this hard time with him.. All your information and responses to questions was very helpful.  |
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