Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105 
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 10, 2015 9:57:20 GMT -7
The new vet was absolutely marvelous! The office was open and bright, everyone was smiling and I felt comfortable at once there, even though I was in tears much of the time (I woke up that way today, in a way it was the impetus of me writing this morning post).
I did not get a chance to read this before I left, so I didn't get Hans to drink anything beforehand. I explained to her that he does not have control of his bladder, and would she teach me how to express? She asked me a lot of questions about when and how much does he urinate, is he able to sleep through the night without peeing etc. She believes also that he must have control of it, and holds it until just can't anymore. I told her about the other vet not being able to find his bladder the last time he saw Hans, and she told me that due to Hans' weight, and the fact that he tenses up his sides when it is touched that would make it difficult to find the bladder. So, I left without learning how to express his bladder. He pooped there, but did not pee, but she did use a catheter to get some urine to do an analysis, and it came out fine. That is two different vets that believe that he is controlling his bladder, all because of signs that he is not leaking or dribbling urine, and when he pees, it's comparable to what the amount of water he drinks. I have noticed that the two days that he has been without the Dex, he only peed three times, in the morning, afternoon and evening. Very close to his normal pottying schedule.
She said that he has pull back reflex, and that he still has deep pain sensation, which is much more obvious than it has been. He actually jumpred when she pinched his foot! She wants me to do some passive range of motion PT with him, because his hips and legs are fairly atropied already, she said that she doesn't want him to lose muscle mass due to total inactivity, I asked her what she believed was a proper crate rest period of time, and she said at least one month, then going on as needed. She did say that eventually water therapy would be a good thing for him because of the lack of resistance and that the buoyancy would be much easier on him. She respected my wishes that he not do it yet because I feel it's too early.
So, here is what I came with: a bottle of
prednisone 5 mgs 1 every other day for inflamation (15 tabs),. She was amazed that he had been taking oral Dex, she thought that it came only injectible form. She was also surprised that he was prescribed it in the first place after having 2 injections of it. Anyway... she believes in proper pain management. I was given
20 lbs
Tramadol (25 mgs 3x a day, but I could give him 50 if he seemed to be a lot of pain), ,
Methocarbomal (500 mg) 1/4 tab erey 8-12 hours as needed for muscle relaxation and
Gabapentin (100 mg 1 capsule every 12-24 for nerve pain).
prednisone 5 mgs 1 every other day for inflamation (15 tabs)
I didn't even have to ask for them! Then the best of the best! They have a acupuncturist in the office. So Hans had his first acupuncture treatment today, and is going to go back on Thursday for his second. The Dr. who does it came in and showed me the needles and explained how acupuncture works in helped dogs with spinal injuries.
All in all, it was an excellent experience, and I felt more confident in his care than I have since he first went down. I'll tell you something interesting too; Hans is much more relaxed and less whiny tonight. I just gave him his meds, hopefully he'll sleep comfortably
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 10, 2015 11:07:22 GMT -7
Susi, glad you have found a more compatible vet, one who has listened to you, has an understanding that pain control is essential. This sounds like a vet who will work WITH you, not against you, is willing to listen to the things you have learned here at Dodgerslist via the professionals who have contributed to our webpage. It is certainly very wonderful that pain meds are most likely now appropriately RX'd so that Hans is not suffering with any signs of pain (yelps, trembling and reluctant to move) Let us know if pain is fully being control dose to dose of the three pain masking meds (Tramadol, methocarbamol and gabapentin) Do be aware that the Rx for prednisone is the tapering down dose for going off this anti-inflammatory. It is not at the anti-inflamamtory dose. I would hold off of ANY passive PT until you know for certain ALL of the painful swelling is gone. A new icon has been added under your name to remind us to tell you more about passive PT (ROM) when off all meds and no signs of pain. This is how the use of prednisone and any other anti-inflammatory works with a disc episode: When the vet guesses that all the painful swelling might be gone, THEN at that time they stop the pain meds, and call for a test taper of the prednisone. This will give a very quick picture whether to continue up at the antiflammatory dose or continue with the taper which normally ends with an every other day dose. The body makes it's own steroid hormone for life-giving body processes and the every other day dose is necessary to signal the body to start making again. This body-made daily dose of cortisol is about the same as Prednisone Rx'd at Han's weight of 20 lbs (9.07 kgs) ranging at: 9.07 kg x 0.1mg pred = 0.907mg/day of Pred 9.07 kg x 0.2mg pred = 1.814 mgs/day of Pred "replacement dose prednisone or prednisolone at 0.1-0.2 mg/kg/day."
Dr. Mark E. Peterson endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/02/q-whats-ideal-prednisone-dose-for-dogs.html
The fastest way to get inflammation down is at the anti-inflammatory pred dose that is given 2x/day rather than depending on the low dose of cortisol the body makes on its own. You may want to get in a phone call to understand the reason behind tapering prednisone yet giving the needed aggressive pain meds. Does she intend to go off of pred and switch to a lessor class of anti-inflammatory (NSAIDs)? Does she fear some adverse side effects of prednisone and not want to use? Always best to know fully the treatment you are paying for and what the vet is thinking with their treatment plan. Is Pepcid AC 5mg 2x/day still on board? |
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 10, 2015 12:47:17 GMT -7
I just called the vets office and asked about why he was being given a tapering down dose of prednisone and the response I got was that it is not a tapering down dose, it is the normal anti-inflammatory dose (1 5 mg tab every other day). So I really don't know her reasoning behind giving him the does she did. I did ask her what her preference is steroids or NSAIDS, and she told me it was definitely the steroids.
She said to make an appt in a week to two weeks to see how he's doing, I'll make appointment for early next week. And see if she can give me a clearer answer.
Yes the Pepcid is still on board. Should I be giving it to him every day whether he's had the prednisone or not?
Today Hans is definitely pain free, he's quiet for the most part and sleepy. He does perk up when he hears the word carrots or green beans as they are his gobo rite snacks. When he whines, it's been that he wants some love and attention. He hasn't peed yet today.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 10, 2015 13:48:55 GMT -7
Susi, that is the best news that finally Hans is not suffering with pain! You did a wonderful thing in finding this vet.
You know, I would not even take my dog to a vet visit, transporting and all that possible movement to the vertebrae, just to ask a question. It is always best to speak directly with the vet. Things passed through a vet tech, a receptionist on to you have a possibility to loose something. Why don't you give a call tomorrow and ask the vet call you back when it is convenient for her to talk. By tomorrow you will also have more observations to give feedback about.
Are you able to carry Hans out to an old peed on spot every two or three hours? Now that he is on prednisone he may be even more thirsty. Have you found that to be the case?
I forgot to clarify the urinalysis. It came back no infection going on?
If that is true, then all the bed wetting seems likely because he was not let out in time. Strange as I think you were taking him out periodically. Maybe it was his uncontrolled pain that made him not want to potty until the last minute???
I would continue to give Pepcid AC 5mg 2x/day. It is not just the meds that can cause extra acids to be in the stomach, stress can cause the same. Hans' routine has been changed with crate resting...that can often be very stressful to dogs who LOVE the sameness of a routine.
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 10, 2015 18:37:14 GMT -7
Yahoo! I took Hans out just now, he sniffed around then he peed!!!! Not only did he pee, but he pooped too! I'm so proud of him!
----
It's funny that you wrote that about Taking Hans out to pee. This afternoon he's been whining for a long time getting more and more frantic, scratching at the sides of the crate. And I'd be checking every so often to see if he was wet but he wasn't. Then he sat up straight and I swear he sighed and started nosing his bedding. He had been holding his urine all that time and wanted to go out, I'm sure iof it! I need to get one of those figure eight harnesses made for him, I'm sure that he'll pee if he's able to find his place and I can help him "stand" so he can pee.
As for the vet, I'm not sure who I spoke to, the receptionist said she was going to see if Dr Jordan was in her office. Then someone came on the line and told me what I told you. I'm not sure who it even was. What I all do is drive up there and ask to speak to the vet so she can explain clearly to me why he's on the dose he is.
If you could give me an idea of what to ask so I don't sound like an idiot would be helpful. I what her to think/know that I know what I'm talking about and why. right now I thinkbi sound like a blithering idiot.
BTW, now that Hans has emptied his bladder, he's much more content and quiet again in his crate. Poor guy I just wasn't reading his signals right. He is a dog of routine, and he would have been out at least 2 if not 3 times by now. Sometimes I feel like such a rotten doxie mama.
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Post by Bill & Tucker on Feb 10, 2015 21:21:35 GMT -7
Hi Susi, I wanted to reach out to you and let you know you are not alone with this issue . I have been nursing my little tucker since 1/27 who is also going through the same as your baby accept that Tucker is going potty pretty much outside unless I don't catch his normal potty breaks. I understand the ups and downs with your frustration because I'm right there with you.
Just hang in there and read as much as you can about how to treat this condition you can google information about the meds and other options for treatment and I am finding this site very helpful to me as a support network, never be afraid to ask your vet to clarify questions you have and keep update on how things are going with your dog, believe me I bug mine a lot .Wishing and praying for you and your dog, Hang in there we can do this together. Bill D  |
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 11, 2015 8:35:51 GMT -7
Thank you so much for your word of encouragement, Bill. We certainly are going through this together since there's only a day apart from when they got sick. We will do it, you and Tucker and Hans and I!
Now..,. May I have a drum roll please? This morning as soon as Hans feet touched the grass, he peed and pooped, and like the little poop eater that he is, he even tried to turn around to have himself a poopy snack! Of course I didn't let him, I kept him held in that one place.
No more thinking that I'm a bad doxie mama any more!
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 11, 2015 11:44:38 GMT -7
Congratulations, good news is always welcome on this Forum! Hans has made a major step in his recovery today.
Before I answer your earlier question about the explanation of steroids let me explain to you that we are not vets and we do not claim to be. The information we get is from reading literature and reading reputable web-sites providing dosing information, and we seek the advise of Board Certified Neurologists on treating IVDD. We recommend using a vet who is knowledgeable in prescribing steroids and always consult with your vet about any steroid questions you have.
Steroids are usually given for 5 to 7 days with pain medication and the standard anti-inflammatory dose of Prednisone for IVDD dogs is from 0.1 to 0.3 mg per pound (0.2 to 0.6 mg/kg) up to twice daily. (www.petplace.com/DrugLibrary/prednisone-prednisolone/page1.aspx). So this means if Hans weighs 20lbs then you would multiply that by 0.1 to 0.3, which is 2 mg to 6 mg, up to twice daily. So his current medication of 5 mg, 1 every other day is not at the anti-inflammatory level.
At the end of 7 days (if a dog is acting ok) then the steroid and the pain medication can be stopped to see if the dog is still in pain (which means he still has swelling in his spinal cord). If he shows pain he goes back on the steroids and pain medications, some dogs take 14 days and others for up to 30 days to reduce the swelling and heal fully.
After it is established that the dog is no longer in pain and the swelling is gone then a taper is done. Steroids need to be tapered for health reasons (so that the body's adrenal system can "wake up" again). The taper is a necessity to signal the adrenals to make their own critical to life steroid hormone.
This link explains how anti-inflammatory drugs such as prednisone work with IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm
Other Important Info about Prednisone: Prednisone use leads to conservation of salt which creates excessive thirst and excessive urination. Because of the retention of salt, prednisone may not be suitable for heart patients. Prednisone can cause change in liver enzyme blood testing and interfere with testing for thyroid disease. Diabetic patients should not use this drug. General information: www.marvistavet.com/html/body_prednisone.html
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,556
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 11, 2015 15:51:14 GMT -7
Susi, so glad to hear that Hans does have bladder control and it was a matter of not being taken outdoors on a regular basis because you were not reading his signals of wanting to go out. While on pred you will need to set your smartphone timer or the stove timer for every 3-4 hours to go out to potty. Maybe the last drink of the night would be about 8-9 pm. Take him out give him 1-2 mins to sniff and pee. If not interested try again in 1-2 hours. You will need to see if it is necessary to wake up mid way through the night for a potty break or wake up a bit earlier such as 5 or 6am and then go back to sleep. As long as Hans is on pred he will likely be drinking more. Susi, did the urinalysis come back showing there was no infection? You have found a vet who definately knows how to control pain..... what a difference it has made. Now you need to have an understanding of her use of Prednisone. If you don't know it, then how can you have a discussion where you can bring your concerns and come to a meeting of the minds? These are some questions to help you learn how your vet uses prednisone to get painful swelling down. --- Hans has been having pain. The pain meds prescribed ARE controlling pain. --- Prednisone is being lowered to below the anti-inflammatory level. What is the vet's thinking about this tapering/lowering of the dose? --- If pred is being lowered how will the anti-inflammatory be able to work on getting inflammation down? -- if pred is being lowered to see if there is still painful swelling, then why were pain meds prescribed that are so successfully masking pain? Would be good to clear up this confusion so you, Susi, know exacting the thinking about using prednisone during Hans' treatment. This page is very good background information on how prednisone works with IVDD. Have you had a chance to read it... it will be excellent reading to have done before discussing Hans' treatments: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm |
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 11, 2015 19:52:10 GMT -7
Hi everybody,
The vet called today to check on how Hans is doing, and I told her about him being able to pee outside. She was happy with that bit of progress. She asked me how the passive therapy was going and to be honest I skirted the question, actually I fibbed and said it was okay. She suggested that I do some deep muscle massage before the PT, to loosen up the muscles.
I asked her about the prednisone dose, why it seemed to be a tapering dose rather than anti-inflammatory. She said that is an anti-inflammatory dies and a consistent dose. Again, I did not know how to respond.
Hans seems to be in very little pain now that he's on the combo of pain meds he's on. I've gave him 1/2 of Tramadol in the morning with 1/4 of methcarbomol plus the Pepcid (it was around 7:30 am), then at 4:30 he got the same minus the Pepcid. He's peed and pooped outside twice, although we've gone down several more times; I think he's learned that if he whines enough, he gets to go out side, he's a smart little stinker! I am going to start setting a timer, so I'm not going up and down the stairs so much, also not moving him unnecessarily. I still haven't made that sling, I'm not very good at those kind of things, but I need to get it done, holding him up by the hips is getting too difficult.
It's good to see my lil boy so bright and alert, even happy! He's been nesting in his bedding a lot, so I had to throw in an extra blanket for him to fuss with. He's barking at the other dogs and noises, so other that not being able to walk, he's acting himself. I'm happy to have some positive stuff happening finally.
Tomorrow he goes in for his 2nd acupuncture treatment. I wonder if it is helping with all this as well?
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 11, 2015 22:15:59 GMT -7
Hi Susi,
No sure why she doesn't know that isn't an anti inflammatory dose. Tapering usually goes from a twice a day dose to a once a day dose to an every other day dose which is towards the end of the tapering which signals the body to make it's own cortisol once again. Once it goes below the twice a day dose, it isn't in the anti inflammatory range anymore..
Acupuncture is helping. It not only helps relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,556
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 12, 2015 10:49:55 GMT -7
Susi, we read what you say literally. I am VERY concerned with your saying "very little pain now." Any pain is unacceptable. What signs of pain are you observing? shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, holding leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky selves.As long as prednisone is being used, Pepcid AC should be given every 12 hours.Are you giving Tramadol currently 3x/day at 25mgs or the full 50 mg tablet? What about gabapentin, are you giving the 100 mg capsule every 12 hours or 1/day? Meds to control pain are best given at the aggressive higher end of the range and higher end of the mg dose.If you are, indeed, seeing ANY pain, then the response to the vet about prednisone being at the anti-inflammatory dose, is you would like to see the more aggressive range of anti-inflammatory pred to be used. You want the higher dose so that prednisone can work more effectively to get the painful swelling down in the spinal cord. The longer nerves are pressured by swelling, the more damage to the nerves. Might be permanent damage. So you would like to try increasing to the higher end of the range for anti-inflammmatory use.low end used for tapering higher end of anti-inflammatory range5mgs pred every other day --------> 5mg 2x/day20 lbsTramadol 25-50 mgs 3x a dayMethocarbomal 500 mg tablet: 125mgs (1/4 tab) every 8-12 hours Gabapentin 100mg capsule: 1 capsule every 12-24prednisone 5 mgs 1 every other day
Pepcid AC should be 2x/day everyday while pred is in use
So in summary: ◢ Pepcid AC 2x/day for full stomach protection ◢ Is there pain? Then make sure you are giving the aggressive pain med dose in mg and the most most frequent time ◢ If there is pain, discuss with the vet about being more aggressive with prednisone. Talk to her about your desire to use the higher end of the anti-inflammatory range for prednisone: 5mg 2x/day. Reminder that surgery is not an option, meds are what you are depending on to get the swelling down. |
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 14, 2015 23:49:23 GMT -7
Right now Hans has taken a turn for the worse in his health, and it's nitvrelated to his back. He started having loose stools on Friday night which by this morning had turned to watery stools tinged with blood. I took him to the vet who took blood to check for pancreatitis, I should know tomorrow or Monday at the latest. It's either that or colitis and they're not surevwhat brought it on as he has been getting his Pepcid every 12 hours. This morning he was not dehydrated and did not need to be put on fluids. I'm notbshowbwhat tomorrow will be like becacausebhebha he has drank very little water, and has not urinted in 2 days.
Right now he is fasting, and I give his meds in a bit of liver wurst. They showed me how to check for dehydration so tomorrow if he is any worse he will be going back to the vet.
As soon as I know anything I will update you all..
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 15, 2015 3:13:47 GMT -7
Susi, in the morning call your vet and get a second stomach medication on board. I know it's going to be hard because it's Sunday. But now that there is blood, there is damage to the GI tract. Bleeding ulcers and bloody diarrhea can lead to a life threatening perforated stomach lining. You need to add Sucralfate immediately. Sucralfate does not negate the extra stomach acids that the NSAID or Steroid causes. Sucralfate works to gel coat when a damaged area of the stomach appears, it is a good med so act quickly. We know you have been giving Pepcid AC but sometimes that isn't enough, get Sucralfate ASAP. If the vet wants to look for other causes for these symptoms, fine, but get the Sucralfate on board in the meantime. It is a very inexpensive drug and you should be able to afford it fine. Some dogs just still have adverse reactions to Prednisone even with the use of Pepcid AC and they need double protection.
Sucralfate forms a gel-like webbing over ulcerated or eroded tissues, thus serving as a sort of a bandage. It is effective in the upper GI tract: stomach, duodenum (upper small intestine), and esophagus. Sucralfate is a prescription drug, and must be obtained from a veterinarian. Sucralfate is best used on an empty stomach and given 30 minutes before administering an antacid. www.marvistavet.com/html/body_sucralfate.html
And also if Hans is still having diarrhea add in a teaspoon of plain pumpkin (not the pie filling) into his food to firm up his stools.. You can also use mashed sweet potato. A temporary bland diet (it is not balanced) is used til diarrhea is under control. Often a low fat bland diet composed of a protein source (usually boiled & defatted hamburger or chicken) and carbohydrate source (mashed white or sweet potato is easily digestible) is used to help for a few days as stomach protection resolves GI track irritation. reference: healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/03/26/dealing-with-dog-diarrhea.aspx
Susi, I am concerned that Hans hasn't urinated in two days. Have you offered him something to entice him to eat or drink like chicken or beef broth? My Rooter went through a spell similar to this with his second surgery and I was a basket case. There has got to be something that Hans would dearly love to drink or eat because not eating means perhaps needed nutrients are not available to correctly process meds. Days of not eating is not good. Meds depend on proper nutrition to work and avoid toxic levels causing over sedating leading to lethargy and lack of appetite.
Can you tell me exactly what you mean by "nitvrelated to his back"? Has his neurological symptoms changed? Could the not peeing be caused by him being worse, like no longer being able to feel his back legs? If so, you may need to express. |
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 15, 2015 11:10:10 GMT -7
Okay, where to start today? First of all, the one one and time that Hand had blood in the diarahhea was yesterday when he was passing pretty much water. There has been no more blood since then. My vet is open today though, and I will call an ask about the sucralfate. I already have some here as I take it myself, and I know how it works. I also am going to ask if the blood test results are in yet, to see if it may be pancreatitis.
As for him not urinating, I believe that it is because he is hardly drinking at all. He's lapped up very little water on his own, but I have been giving him 3 tsp of water by syringe every 1/2 hour. I will ask the vet about this as well.
What is strange is that he is very interested in eating. I was instructed to not give him any food until the diareah (sp?) has stopped. He has not had any since yesterday evening, I'm hoping that it's because of the ant-diareal that they gave him. I have given him he medications at the usual times in a tiny bit of liverwurst. Today I did give him a couple of tablespoons of rice cooked with ground beef with some pumpking mixed in. I did not give him much, since it's been a while since he's eaten, and I didn't want the diarea to start again.
I have been checking his mouth and gums for signs of dehydration, and though they are not completely wet with saliva, they are not extremely dry either.Because of that I have upped his water intake by giving it to him more often with the syringe.Ahain, I will see what the vet says about that.
I am pretty sure that "nitvrelated to his back" was supposed to read as not related to his back.
As for the spinal injury, there does seem to be a tiny bit of improvement. When his back feet are touched, he pulls them away, and if they are pinched, he cries out, he justn't just look away. Again, I'm assuming that he's getting more feeling back there. Im not sure if that could be because he has had two acupuncture treatments. One little note is that the tech who took him back and brought him back out to me said that he did very well that time, that he appeared to be more alert and not as miserable as he did two days before.
He isn;t showing many signs of pain such as trembling or yelping, but he is very weak, and its hard for him to move towards me when I go to give him water. Maybe it's because he's doped up up on his meds? Maybe it's because of the lack of eating and drinking like he he should be? Maybe a bit of both? I don't know.
I am going to call the vet now, and ask all of my questions and see what they say; if the want him to come in again or not. I will let you all know as soon as I finish talking with her.
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 15, 2015 14:10:21 GMT -7
Hey Susi, I meant to tell you that I have two Dachshunds with pancreatitis and I manage it well. So don't be worried if the test is positive, because with a proper diet it can be managed and Hans can live a good life. So if the test results come back positive don't stress over it.
You are going to laugh but I awoke in the middle of the night and saw your post and read the "nitvrelated to his back" and didn't know what in the world it meant so I looked the word nitrelated up in the dictionary and couldn't find a meaning. Of course you know how it is at 2:30 or 3:30 in the morning, you really are not thinking the clearest in the world. So I scratch my head a little while and pondered your answer. I am so proud to see today that it should have said not related to his back. This day is good, Debbie
P.S. Just wanted to share with you that it is not recommended to pinch toes at home and really only a Board Certified Neurologist/Ortho should tackle this task. Unfortunately, general vets do not see enough cases of IVDD daily to become really proficient in giving the neuro exam and correctly interpreting what they see. Deep pain sensation is tested by squeezing a toe very hard and watching for cognitive recognition of what is happening. If the dog simply pulls the foot back, that is NOT deep pain positive. Deep pain positive is a clue that the pain message is getting past the damaged spinal cord to the brain. When doing this there is a chance of further damaging the already fragile back as Hans would wiggly and squirm to get away. It is best just to let him rest and not attempt this.
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Post by Dee & Gidget+Molly on Feb 15, 2015 17:05:44 GMT -7
Hi, Susi. I just wanted to let you know I am rooting for you and your furbaby. You really have your hands full. I hope this new vet will be able to help you much more than the previous one. My name is Dee and I have my 9 yr. old Molly (mini dachshund) being crated also. She had back surgery last year and has injured another part of her back. She also is on Tramadol (25mg 3X day). I've also added Benedryl to keep her a little sleepy and she also takes 1/2 tab of Rimadyl 2X day. Molly also has started licking her paw and the people here on dodgerslist have helped me learn that this is not good. So, tomorrow I am going to call the vet and ask for Gabapentin to be added to her meds to help with the paw licking. It is so good to know there are others out there dealing with the same thing.
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 16, 2015 20:46:59 GMT -7
More news that is not related to his back injury. I had to take him back once again to the vet today because he started again with the diarrhea and vomited last night and is refusing to drink water.
Tomorrow he is having exploratory surgery to remove a foreign object from his abdomen.
The vet is not sure what or where this thing is; it could be something as easy as making a small incision and removing it, or having to resect some of his small intestines to find and remove it.
So now Hans has two major hurdles to get over. Please keep him in your thoughts.
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 16, 2015 22:54:21 GMT -7
Hi Susi,
Sorry to hear the latest about Hans. Please do let us know how he is doing after surgery. I do hope they are careful of his back.. Under anesthesia the core muscles of the back are unprotected so they need to handle him very carefully.
Hope the surgery is easy on him and they find the problem quickly. ..
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 17, 2015 7:55:29 GMT -7
I'm sure they will be as careful as they can be Paulina. What I want most though is that he does well in the surgery. He has a lot of healing ahead of him. I just him to get thru this. I
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 18, 2015 12:05:17 GMT -7
Hansie is home now and looking great. I wish I knew how to add a picture here!
He's earen twice already, a bit of scrambled eggs with boils chicken, and he drank a little water. In fact he's eating and drinking better now than he was before the surgery.
So far he has not peed, I think the last time was last night in the kennel. I continue to check him often to make sur he's dry. I've taken him out once to see if he'd go, but now luck. Well keep trying.
As for the meds he's on, here is the list:
They stopped the prednisone for right now, he's still taking the
same pain meds. He's slso taking an
anti-diarrheal,
clavamax and
sucalfate.
The reason he's git him off the prednisone is because the did find a lot a nodules on his liver, which she said could have been caused br the steroids. She also said they possibly could be cancer but she highly doubted that. She did take a small sample to send away for a biopsy, just to be on the safe side.
So, once he starts healing well fro this surgery, we bs back to concentrating on his back once again.
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Susi & Hans
New Member
Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 18, 2015 19:36:51 GMT -7
Just a quick note on Hans to let you know how he's doing. He's eating and drinking well, and urinated on his own when I took him outside. I want to make sure sure that he is drinking enough do that he pees a bit more often. He hasn't pooped yet, but they said may not happen for a couple of days because of the anesthesia.
He is obviously sore, he doesn't want to move much on his belly, but he does come close enough so I can take him out of the crate. I have been diligent in giving him his pain meds, and the doctor did give me permission to give him a whole tramadol if he seems to be very uncomfortable.
I don't know if I told you that he is getting 1/2 gr of sucralfate now, three times a day.
Hopefully his incision will heal quickly so I can get a better idea of how he is feeling in his back.
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 18, 2015 21:33:30 GMT -7
Hi Susi,
So happy Hans is home and in recovery mode. Did they find the foreign object or was it the nodules on his liver?
Praying for Hans to feel better very soon!
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 19, 2015 15:32:43 GMT -7
Yes they found the foreign object, it was a piece of broken glass in his stomach. They took a sample of tissue from Hans liver to get it biopsies, I should have an answer in about a week.
Maybe another time I will explain how I think the glass came to be in his abdomen. I'll just say now that's it due to inadequate maintenance of my apt complex property.
I also went to the other vets office to show them the piece of glass that was taken from Hans stomach, and it looks like heads are going to roll. She will be calling me tomorrow after she has spoken to all involved there, and let me know what they can do for me. If it's not satisfactory, I will go to an attorney to charge them with negligence. I'm sure that they do not want that
Anyway, back to my little man, he continues to rest quietly. I'm making sure that he is drinking enough water and getting several tiny meals of bland food. He has urinated three times on his own which pleases me, and is a relief for him as well! I'm hoping that he will have a bowel movement soon, or ill be calling they once again.
I wish I had a way to upload pictures here so you could see him!
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 19, 2015 16:05:16 GMT -7
Susi, glad the found the object and Hans is ok. These little fur-babies are so unpredictable, who would think that Hans would think glass tasted good? Upload your photos to the 2016 Dodgerslist Photo Gallery. Copy the address from your browser for the photo and paste into a post here on the Forum. More how-to directions here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendarTo show a photo in a Forum post it must first be uploaded to a photo gallery. Then all that needs to be done is use the photo's address to post at the Forum. Or Paula can upload for you. email jpgs to: photogallery@dodgerslist.com Direct Link: www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/ |
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Susi & Hans
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Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 26, 2015 22:56:55 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
It's been a while since I posted and so much has happened that I want to share it with everyone.
last week Hans bloomed, it's the only way I can explain it. He wagged his tail! I cried when I saw that because I know that it's a huge sign in showing improvement. That same day he sat up and barked too, after a week of hardly moving and not making a sound. The operation really took a toll on him. I stayed on top of his pain meds every 6 hours and that helped a lot I'm sure.
He was still having diarrhea, so the vet increased the metronidazole, and recommended that I start giving him some foods with probiotics like cottage cheese and plain yogurt, and to cut down on the pumpkin by half. It worked! The next day he had a normal bowel movement! He is still on a bland diet, to let the incisions heal completely.
He has total bladder and bowel control, he has not urinated or defecated in his crate, even right after his surgery. He lets me know when he needs to go out to go potty. Sometimes he whines and I think he needs to go, but the little brat just wants to go out and lie in the sunshine.
As for his back, he has made incredible improvements as well. His left leg is the better one, he no longer knuckles on it. He can bear weight on his hind legs for a short time and he wants to walk so bad! Unfortunately the right leg is showing little improvement. He can't place it flat on the ground on his own, I have to do it for him. When he does attempt to take steps, it just drags hind or under him.
He had his third acupuncture treatment this week, and the doctor is amazed at how well he can stand.
The vet has not started him back on the prednisone until she is sure that everything iis healed in and out. Hopefully when it's back on board we'll see some improvement in that right leg.
I know that we still have a ways to go for his crate rest, I know that is the best this for his back to heal. I need to print off some of the info on the importance of eight weeks of crate rest.
Well, I think that's about all that I can tell you for now. I hope that all of this good news gives hope that he's going to beat this IVDD!
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 27, 2015 6:23:47 GMT -7
Hi, Susi. What a wonderfully positive report on Hans! I'm so glad he's doing better. The wagging of his tail and his bladder/bowel control are excellent signs of nerve healing. I remember crying when my Jeremy first wagged his tail again so I do know how happy you must be.
As for the Prednisone, the reason for that is to resolve the swelling from the damaged disc. That swelling usually takes 7-30 days to resolve. Once the swelling resolves, there would be no more pain and all meds can be stopped. Vets usually call for a taper of the Prednisone after being on it a week or two, with a stopping of all meds, to see if pain returns. Once the vet feels that Hans no longer needs pain meds due to his recent surgery, speak to her about stopping the pain meds to see if there is still pain due to his back injury. If not, then all meds can be stopped and just crate rest needs to be continued.
The Prednisone will not help heal nerve damage. If there is no more swelling from the damaged disc, then the Prednisone would not be needed. Nerves heal with time and it can sometimes take months, even a year or more, for those nerves to heal. Good job on printing off info on the importance of a full 8 weeks of crate rest as that disc still needs restricted movement in order to heal and form scar tissue.
Please give us an updated list of all of his current meds so we're on top of that.
Keep up the good work with Hans! Blessings to you both.
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Susi & Hans
New Member
Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 28, 2015 0:08:17 GMT -7
I think she wants him on the pred to help with the inflammation of his intestinal wall.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 28, 2015 5:50:29 GMT -7
OK, Susi, that wouldn't be something we would have any knowledge about. Just so you have the knowledge you need about the use of Pred for a back injury, here is more info for your reading: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmPlease keep us updated and continued healing prayers for little Hans. |
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Susi & Hans
New Member
Mom of three grown human kids and three senior doxie furbabies that are the light of my life
Posts: 105
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Post by Susi & Hans on Feb 28, 2015 23:50:22 GMT -7
Ii am going to talk to the vet the next time I see her if she thinks we can just not put him back on the pred, and cut off the pain meds like article suggests. Right now he seems pretty much pain free, but it's difficult to tell for sure since I'm still giving him his pain meds every 6 hours except at night. He has been off all steroids since his surgery, now may be the best time check of how his spine is doing.
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