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Post by Mitch & Roxy on Oct 15, 2014 12:18:03 GMT -7
So Roxy had ruptured disc surgery earlier in the year. She recovered extremely well and had probably 90-95% recovery in terms of her movement (sudden turning, squatting would often be a bit bouncy) but most motor functions in tact.
Just yesterday I came back home and she would only walk a little bit before sitting, then walk and sit, etc. After seeing what was wrong I could notice she had the abdominal shaking that was present earlier this spring in her last episode. Took her to the vets and have some prednisone and pain meds for crate rest. Her legs were able to respond when putting them on her knuckles yesterday, however this afternoon the leg on the one side wasn't responding. She can still stand, though somewhat wobbly. Either way she is in her crate and I only tested this out momentarily when trying to take her outside to go.
I'm not sure if she has lost bladder control, I'm guessing not and she was just in her crate for too long, but she had an accident overnight in her crate. This could be because I can't have her outside for long. She's never been a dog that goes outside to go to the bathroom, that just happens when it happens and is her secondary concern. She always goes outside to sniff and chase after things and sniff and sniff. So my main question: is there a way I can try to speed up her 'routine' so she'll go to the bathroom immediately when she comes out? Or is this just something she'll have to learn over the time while she is under crate rest?
I'm just paranoid over this whole situation because I don't think I could afford another surgery for the second time in such a short span.
This picture shows Roxy last year (long hair). Kiki is the short hair, and the pug/terrier mix is my parents dog.
After her first surgery:
Thanks for any advice. |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 15, 2014 13:18:06 GMT -7
Hi Mitch, welcome to Dodger's list  I just want to say that Roxy is gorgeous, what a sweet face! Please know that it is in the cards for Roxy to get better. The most important thing for you right now is to be well versed in all the phases of IVDD. I know you went through this before but sometimes we all need a refresher. The below link is a great place to start: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmI am so glad to hear that you have Roxy on crate rest immediately. Please be sure to keep her crated for the next 8 weeks with only being carried out to potty and taking minimal steps. This is hallmark of conservative treatment and Roxy sounds like a really good candidate for that. Is it possible for you to provide us with the dosing information on her medications? It is possible that she is still having swelling even after being on the prednisone, but dose information will help us. Are you observing any signs of pain (shivering, tight tummy, not moving, head raised or lowered, not her usual perk self)? Is Roxy on Pepcid? Steroids are notoriously hard on the digestive tract and you don't want to have any more issues. You may want to talk to your vet and phrase the question like this "Is there any medical reason why Roxy cannot take Pepcid?" The only way to determine bladder control is through a sniff test. Take Roxy to an area where she regularly pees and let her sniff. If she releases urine, then she has bladder control. Please know that being on a steriod can make her thirstier and thus need to pee more often - typically every 3 to 4 hours. Have you seen her pee at all on her own since she went down? We are here to help you any way we can. Hang in there! |
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Post by Mitch & Roxy on Oct 15, 2014 13:42:54 GMT -7
Roxy is actually sweeter than she is beautiful, which says a lot. She's taking the crating like a champ, though it's obviously only been a short time.
I don't have the exact dosage, will check when I get back home. But it's definitely
prednisone with 1 pill at night, 1/2 pill in the morning for 3 days. Then the tapering begins. I will contact the neurologist that performed Roxy's original surgery via email later today when I get home (if I still have her personal email, I hope I do) and/or give her a call in the morning if she is in to discuss the steroid usage.
She's not her perky self, but I don't believe it's pain related. She's probably woozy from the pain meds (didn't check to see what that is) and a little bummed about being in the cage. But she still barks at noises and wants to see everything she can. I swear the whole world is against us, I took her out once last night, once this morning, and once this afternoon and every time something was there that got her excited and we had to cut our time outside really short (neighbor, squirrel, and dog walker). So because of this I haven't been able to observe her go yet. Hopefully she has been able to hold it since I saw her this afternoon and will go as soon as I get home, but we'll see.
I'll ask to see about the Pepcid when I speak with the neurologist later. Though she did not recommend it last time when she was on prednisone after the surgery. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,561
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 15, 2014 14:36:11 GMT -7
Mitch, sorry to hear about Roxy's disc episode. There is a difference in post-op crate rest and conservative crate rest. Under conservative the whole focus is on getting the disc to heal and that only happens with limited movement. How about trying an expen at potty time. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep your dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash will control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is what I found to be the better way to minimize footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on or darting off!  Your vet has called for a 3 day course of pred. This is how steroids work and why the taper is important so you know what to expect, what to monitor for and what action to take: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm Are the pain meds going to be backed off on the test taper to have a clear picture on on any hint of pain surfacing and quickly get back upon the original dose? Not all vets are proactive about stomach protection when on steroids. Be sure to phrase the question in this manner: Does my dog have any health issues to keep her from taking Pepcid AC (famotidine)? If there is no health issues for this pretty safe over the counter stomach acid suppressor, then give 5mg of Pepcid AC 2x/day as vets who are proactive do. We can best help with those details on exact names of meds, the dose in mgs and how often you are to give. ALso how much does Roxy weigh? While on pred she will need to be taken out more often to pee, every 3-4 hours. And she will need access to water inside her recovery suite. ![]() |
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Post by Mitch & Roxy on Oct 15, 2014 15:32:36 GMT -7
She is on
[Pred as of 10/14] 5mg at night and 2.5mg in the morning for 3 days. 2.5mg once a day for 3 days. Then 2.5mg every other day until gone.
Pain meds: Gabapentin 50mg. 75mg every 12 hours as needed for pain.
Roxy is around 12.5 pounds.
She was more or less back to normal and was really excitable in the cage when I got home. I may have to work from home more to prevent these excitable periods. She definitely still has control over her bladder as she went as soon as I got home. No bowel movement but she goes max once a day anyway and went in the evening last night. If she doesn't go by tomorrow night I would be worried.
I would love to try an ex pen but I'm scared she will want to put her front legs up to tell me she wants out.
She does have water in her cage. It was funny: I had the door open and was trying to calm her down and Kiki just jumped right in and wanted to lay down next to her. Obviously I immediately pulled her out, but it was an adorable moment. They aren't related but have basically known each other since they were puppies and Kiki is not a fan of the separation.
Anyhow, thanks again for all of your help guys.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,561
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 16, 2014 7:53:35 GMT -7
Mitch, glad to hear very minimal pain med Rx (gabapentin) is keeping all pain under control. The gabapentin is so minimal that your reporting not her perky self may well mean that she WAS painful, if that is the case currently it would not be time to taper but to also get the typical pain meds on board that are used with IVDD: Tramadol, methocarbamol and gabapentin added when there is hard to control pain. Details on pain med use with IVDD and how prednisone works: Before discussing pain meds, these articles can give you good background information: pain meds: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmprednisone: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm On the taper of pred this Fri 10/17 do be watchful of any backward steps, pain. The vet would need to know at once to quickly get back up to the original dose for a bit longer. Did you get Pepcid AC on board yet? Is the knuckling of the paw still the same or can she now place her paw correctly?  There should not be a problem at potty time using an expen in the grass. You would be there with with her on a sling. As soon as you see she had completed her business, scoop her up and carry back to the recovery suite. Otherwise at potty time you would use a harness with 6 foot leash PLUS sling and stand in one spot to limit the number of footsteps and darting off. |
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Post by Mitch & Roxy on Oct 20, 2014 11:34:20 GMT -7
Just a quick update: Roxy seems to still be fine. She's starting the final step of the tapering of the steroids so I don't plan on giving her any pain meds for now. She seemed fine at lunch, happy go lucky/tail wagging when I took her out for a bit to go. But just super sad when she goes back in the cage. So I don't think there is really any pain.
She is still wobbly but can walk just fine. She does respond to her feet being placed on her knuckles. It's not an immediate reaction like I would hope (more like a full second) but I'll be happy with some form of correction rather than just letting it be.
Will be taking her for a checkup on Wednesday. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,561
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 20, 2014 13:02:17 GMT -7
MItch, we've got our fingers crossed that the taper will go through without any pain showing, meaning finally all the painful inflammation is gone. With your sticking to 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for the full 8 weeks, you very likely see maybe at the end of rest or weeks later that those nerves will be able to heal even more so that she'll be more stable in walking.
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Post by Mitch & Roxy on Oct 22, 2014 13:23:07 GMT -7
Great check-up today. The neurologist checked her out and she did not tense up or appear to be in any pain during all of the poking and prodding so hopefully the swelling has died down. She agreed that she still needs to be in rest mode for a while and we're not out of the woods, but certainly everything is extremely positive at this point. When placed on her knuckles she corrected them instantly today as opposed to the sluggish second or two response late last week. What a difference a week has made.
Two more doses of 25mg of prednisone tomorrow night and Friday, then off the steroids. After that still have a lot of the pain meds, but doubt they will be needed. Then just continued rest for a while.
Also, the tiny crate has given way to her new resting area:
Thanks again all.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,561
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 22, 2014 17:55:51 GMT -7
Mitch what a wonderful report ... it certainly does appear that all the swelling in the spinal cord is gone. Now all that is left is to let the disc make good strong scar tissue with the balance of the 8 weeks. Very nice recovery suite. I suggest you enhance it a tiny bit with attached bowl holder at head height. This will also eliminate changes of food/ water being spilled over.  |
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Post by Mitch & Roxy on Apr 16, 2015 9:21:56 GMT -7
Roxy has been doing well, thanks everyone again for the help. It's always nice to know what to look for now instead of early last year when her spine ruptured and surgery was needed.
Anyhow, I have a secondary question relating to my other dachshund Kiki. She is a little heavier than Roxy and I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it but I notice her hind legs sometimes shake when out and about. It usually doesn't happen all the time and I don't notice it often in the house, but I do notice it more often when she's outside running or just after she comes inside from running. It's not a violent shaking and it's not like she's losing any mobility, I'm just curious if this is somewhat normal or if there is any other issue that might come up from this.
I have her checkup coming up soon, but honestly I'm not sure the vet would be a huge help if it is related to her back as he was relatively oblivious to Roxy's situation (not being mean, just honest). I could also setup a quick checkup with the neurologist if needed.
Anyhow, any thoughts would be appreciated. Or if it's just best to see someone and go from there not a big deal. Just wanted to check in. Thanks!
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Apr 16, 2015 12:44:23 GMT -7
Hello Mitch, In this business it is really great not to hear from someone in a long time, you since Oct last year. But you also know we love to hear "good" updates also. So glad to hear Roxy is doing good and certainly hope she stays that way. About Kiki, from personal experience of having three dachshunds with IVDD and taking in a 6 day old litter of dachshunds and bottle raising them, then realizing 3 of them have IVDD, resulting in three IVDD surgeries for myself and 2 additional surgeries for the siblings. If anyone is IVDD aware it's me. I watch and look for any sign of trouble and get on the medications and crate. I'm not saying Kiki has IVDD, but shaky legs can and is a sign that trouble may be ahead. Also it could be related to something else entirely so if you are worried about it then as you say "bypass the local vet" and see your specialist. If your local vet is not up to date on doing a neuro exam then you might not get the answers you seek. If you do know it is early signs of IVDD then you might want to take the extra steps now to prevent a future surgery. No jumping on or off furniture, etc., you know the drill by now. Walking is good and builds up muscle in the legs and back, or so my neurologist tells me. As far as the weight goes, this is what my vet told me a couple of years ago at an annual exam. He said, "Debbie, I know how much you love your dogs and I have to tell you this, Rooter is not overweight by any means but I want you to take 2 lbs off of him." I almost cried, my dogs were at normal weights and I did not want to see them go any lower, I am from the South and in the South a little extra weight is considered golden. I listened to him and bought the food he recommended, the Hill's Prescription Diet Metabolic. www.hillspet.com/metabolic-pet-food.htmlIn three months he was the sleekest prettiest waist dachshund you have ever seen and I hugged my vets neck for bringing this to my attention. I'm not pushing the food at all - I'm just saying that now I can sleep better knowing I have given my Rooter every chance in the world at beating IVDD. Now all my four dachshunds get cooked carrots, green beans, and any other vegetable I have plus fruits as all of their snacks. I also feed 1 teaspoon of pumpkin to each dog per day plus soak all kibble in equal parts of water a couple of hours before feeding. I also went to dogfoodadvisor.com and chose a 5 star dog food to feed them and now I feel they are at their optimum balance and ready to fight the IVDD beast. Debbie |
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I just want to say that Roxy is gorgeous, what a sweet face! Please know that it is in the cards for Roxy to get better. The most important thing for you right now is to be well versed in all the phases of IVDD. I know you went through this before but sometimes we all need a refresher. The below link is a great place to start:
