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Post by Dee & Gidget+Molly on May 7, 2014 8:04:50 GMT -7
Hi, Lola and Hurley. I'm new to this Dodgerslist board. I've read all of Dodgerslist but just found this informative part of it this morning. I have a almost 9-year old doxie, Molly, who had back surgery January 5 of this year. I noticed twice her shivering but didn't relate it to pain. A few nights later I notice her knuckling her left foot and took her to the vet. Vet wanted to see her next morning early which showed Molly dragging her left leg. Took her for a 1 1/2 hour drive to surgeon who did surgery. After 6 weeks of crate rest (not as strict as I should have been near the end) she was walking normal. I took my 2 doxies to a campground I belong to for a weekend with crate, harness and leash. The night before we came home, I carried Molly out to potty in the small fenced in yard but didn't put a leash on since it was very late, dark and quiet. A cat walked by and Molly went ballistic running back and forth several times before I could catch her. A day or two later, she was walking funny again. I took her back to surgeon who said she injured another part of her back and to crate her for 4 weeks with Rimadyl for 2 weeks. Molly is always like your Hurley - she has a puppy personality and wants to chase animals, bees, birds, lawn mowers and will spin around and really pull on her leash to check something out. She had her first laser treatment on Friday. The vet tested her back and said if Molly was in pain, she didn't show it. She saw her walk "drunk" in the rear legs and said I should let her walk about 5 minutes at potty time to keep her muscles strong. Said I could keep her in crate as well as play pen. Sunday I had company and my son-in-law cut my grass. Molly (I thought) had to potty and I took her out and she tried to run after the mower. My big mistake. I started Rimadyl again that evening 5/4 since I thought she might be in pain next day due to inflammation. She had 2nd laser yesterday (Tuesday). and is scheduled for another treatment on Friday. Vet recommended acupuncture along with it. Not sure about doing this yet. Molly has "atomic" energy while out to potty and even in the cage when I'm preparing her food, someone comes to visit and she can be very vocal and will jump on her 4 legs or stand on her hind legs in the cage and while in the play pen. Another one of her specialties is spinning around - sometimes slowly and sometimes fast.
I am somewhat confused since many on Dodgerslist say 24/7 crate rest and the vet is saying 5-minute walk and playpen. Molly does not seem to be in pain even though she will look back at her hind end (not as often now) and the surgeon and I thought that was due to pain - like "what is causing me to hurt back there"?
I would like any feedback, comments and/or suggestions. She has mostly been caged since surgery in January.
I just registered as a member a little earlier today and cannot find my post. I'm wondering what I did wrong. It doesn't even acknowledge me as a new member. I need help. Thanks
Thanks for responding, Paula. Her initial surgery was January 5, 2014. First episode (running after cat) was approximately 7 weeks later. Crated her after visit to surgeon on March 26. At this time, the surgeon checked her back and assessment was "Molly has lower back pain and possibly mild signs of ataxia (incoordination) at home. These signs are most likely due to an intervertebral disc herniation. She had surgery for herniation at one site in January." Further, his recommendation was "4 weeks limit Molly's activity. Continue strict cage rest and short walks on the leash. Avoid running, jumping or rough housing."
However, as I stated in my post, Molly is like an atomic filled bundle of puppy energy when it comes to hunting, smelling other animals who have been in her yard, going after bees or loud motors. She even barks excessively at the windshield wipers in my car when they are on. When I take her out to potty, she pulls really hard on the leash, tries spinning around if she senses something as well as tries to run. For only about 11 1/2 lbs. she is very strong. I guess it is all that pent up energy she is holding onto.
Paula, I hope this helps.
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member 
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135 
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 7, 2014 10:44:49 GMT -7
Hi rvmama, what's your name? I am Lola my dog is Hurley and he is 9 years old, like your Molly. I'm happy you found Dodgerslist, and our thread - I feel we are in a very similar situation and happy if you find comfort in reading our story. I will answer what I can here but you may also think of starting a new thread just for Molly.
Walking drunk is definitely one of the signs of back injury so if indeed Molly is doing that it sounds like she has reinjured her back, and even if not, even if you only suspect she might have, you should definitely crate her for full 8 weeks (not 4 as advised by your vet) and keep her in the crate 24/7, only out for very minimum short potty breaks. Looking back to the hind leg is and always has been a definite sign of pain/numbness in Hurley's case, relating to back issues. If Hurley ever does that, or licks his belly or paws abnormally (also a sign of pain), I give him Rimadyl. Now he has not done it in a while, so I know there is no pain. We have done laser sessions once a week and 2 acupuncture sessions now. We found the acupuncture a bit of an ordeal this time around because Hurley would not sit or lie down and would try to "escape" all the time during the 60 minute session, so I decided not to take him again unless the pain returns (which I hope it will not). Acupuncture was much easier and more helpful when Hurley's symptoms were more severe in December, prior to surgery.
Also, I have learned to time Hurley's potty time so that there is minimum traffic outside. A lawn mower is a definite no-no. Hurley goes ballistic even if he sees a child with a football far, far away. I find it challenging to keep him calm but we are learning to cope with it. A harness and a really short leash, and only out to potty and back in. It is not a "walk", just a short potty break, minimum steps. Dodgerslist has really good instructions on how to do this, have you found those instructions and are you following them? How are you carrying Molly outside to potty? I am using a SturdiBag, just in case Hurley sees something and gets excited, I'm afraid he will jump off my lap. And if I see someone approaching with another dog, I order Hurley into the SturdiBag and we wait until the "danger" is over. Then we do our last 1 minute of potty and come back in.
Overall rvmama, please don't be worried that Molly's been in the cage/crate since January. Hurley's been in his crate almost all the time since mid December. It's the only thing that is helping him get better. You are doing the right thing. Just be strong.
Lots of love and patience,
from Lola & Hurley
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Post by Jean & Mimi on May 7, 2014 11:11:36 GMT -7
Hi there and Welcome to Dodgerslist! I found your posts and included them here so now they are all on the same thread. First and foremost, please know that Molly can get better. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Are you ready? Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm Add this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm Tape this flyer to your fridge so the whole family knows what things are emergencies: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfTo quickly answer your question on crate rest, crate rest is 24/7. Molly would stay in her crate all the time for 8 weeks, eating/sleeping, spending time with the family, all within the confines of her crate. She is only allowed out for potty breaks and for that she should be in a harness and only allowed minimal steps (no sniff-fest party for Molly). No running, no jumping...just doing her business and then back in her crate. In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? ► What is your dog's name? Your name, too. ► What breed is your dog and did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc? ► What was the date you saw the vet and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for this current disc episode? …. STRICT means No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? ► Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? ► How much does your dog weigh? List the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and times per day given? What was the start dose if a steroid, date of taper? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. ► Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment nt once off of all meds and there is no more pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm► Can your dog specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? ► Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? ► If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. Looking forward to your answers  |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2014 12:25:54 GMT -7
With updated and clarified info that crate rest for the most current disc episode was started on March 26, then that means it takes 8 weeks for that disc to heal with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty with the very, very, fewest of footsteps. Graduation day would be on May 21. Molly is one dang lucky dog she has not re-injured a weak and still healing disc being allowed so much movement prior to graduation day. So at this time is she on any med at all? What are the names, dose in mg and how often do you give it. Today does she show you any pain: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, head held high or nose to the ground, not normal perky self? At potty time she DOES need to restrict footsteps. This worked the best for me using an expen or some of that poke in the ground garden edging fence. The visual and the physical limit of the fence lets Molly know there will be no darting off and no sniff fests. Do you use a harness and leash, a sling to keep  ----------------- Glad that you did view the on-line presentation "Short Cut through IVDD" A dog is only on 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks from the date a disc episode started if being treated conservatively. The 8 weeks is to let the disc heal. If post op then the dog is only on 6 weeks of rest to let all the surgical sites heal. So the question is on May 4, did Molly re-injure her disc, or a new disc injury that requires strict rest. If there is no disc injury there is no need of Rimadyl, no need of crate rest. Giving Rimadyl before a vet can examine is not a good idea as they don't have a chance to see for themselves and make a good diagnosis. Has Molly been to the vet for an exam since May 4? We'll be looking to read the answers to the questions Jean asked you. Then we'll have a clearer picture and best be able to support you and Molly. |
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Post by Dee & Gidget+Molly on May 7, 2014 12:46:31 GMT -7
Hi, Lola. My name is Dolores. So glad you replied. Haven't read your post yet. I'm still learning how to use this site.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2014 12:55:27 GMT -7
OK Dolores, so glad to see you here on the Forum. You did it right! Want an email alert? expand picture for how to:  |
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Post by Dee & Gidget+Molly on May 7, 2014 13:58:11 GMT -7
Hi, Jean. Thanks for your reply. I'm still not sure about using this site - it's me, but it seems confusing. I thought I put my post here but Paula found it in my e-mail. Hopefully, I will get better!
To answer your questions:
1. My dog's name is Molly, and she will be 9 in July.
2. Molly is a red dappled dachshund. When I figure out how to add a picture, I will
3. My name is Dolores
4. Molly's surgery was on January 5, 2014. She did extremely well and was walking just about normal like always.
5. The episode where she ran after the cat was on March 22, and she saw the surgeon for check on her due to walking funny on March 26. His assessment was that Molly had lower back pain with mild signs of ataxia at home. These signs are most likely due to an intervertebral disc hernation. Currently, her signs are rather mild. Recommended
2x daily Rimadyl for 2 weeks
4 weeks crate rest with limiting Molly's activity, continue strict cage rest and short walks on the leash.
I was too lenient with the crating and would let her sit on the couch with Gidget (my other dachshund) in the evening while watching TV. She would stay next to me and be quiet. And, she wakes up in her crate in my bedroom around 5:00AM or so, and I've been getting her out and putting her in bed with Gidget and I.
The vet doing the laser checked her walking and said she did have a little bit of a drunken walk in the rear. She said she needs to keep her muscles strong and I could take her for a 5-10 minute walk at potty time, which I have been doing again. She also said I could put her in a playpen to divert her attention when she got frustrated at being in the cage. So, I'm a little confused on what I should be doing. However, Molly still is not walking correctly and she does at times look at her back end.
I don't think there is much pain right now. She does not yelp. On Monday, the day after she tried to catch the lawn mower, she did make a small grunt when I shifted her to my left arm as I usually do so I can open the slider. That was the only sound I've heard. No shaking or trembling.
Molly weighs 12 lbs. (a little heavy due to inactivity). I currently have her on
12.5mg Rimadyl 2x daily
1/2 tab Pepsid AC.
I'm not sure if I need to continue this too much longer??? My other doxie was on Rimadyl for a couple of years and I gave the Pepsid AC along with the Rimadyl in her food. She did well.
Molly can walk pretty well, a little lagging in the right or left leg at times. She can run (not that I let her) and she can bunny hop (not that I let her). She can wag her tail and really tell me off when she wants out of the cage!
Molly can squat and pee and poop fine. Poop is good consitency and she always did eat good.
I did start laser on Friday. She had her 2nd treatment on Tuesday and is due for another on this Friday. How many treatments of laser is usually necessary?
About 1 1/2 years ago, Molly started blinking her eyes really fast which later turned into blinking and slightly shaking her head which has now turned into jerky movements of her head and upper body. She does not go into a trance, and the vet and surgeon said if it is not diminishing her quality of life, don't start her on any meds. I read someplace where if there is spinal cord injury, it could cause jerky movements.
Thanks for getting back to me.
Dolores
Hi, Paula. the only sign that may be attributed to pain is every so often she will turn around to look at her hind end. The surgeon and I thought this may be due to pain. She injured another part of her back, not the surgical site. She does not tremble as she did before her surgery. She has yelped 2 times, but that has been about 2 weeks ago. Monday, the day after she tried to run after the lawn mower, when I picked her up she did a little grunt so I started her on Rimadyl 2x daily. Yesterday and today she got it just once in the morning 12.5mg. I'm trying to see if she can do without it. I crated her more today than she has been for about 2-3 weeks. I do have the child/pet play yard which has 6 panels to make 18 1/2 sq. feet or 4 panels to make 6 sq. feet which I may put out tomorrow morning for her potty and leave it out there just for that. I'm afraid she won't want to poo in that area, though. The surgeon's clinical examination on March 26th states: Molly had moderate, repeatable signs of pain on caudal lumbar spinal palpation. His assessment of Molly is as follows: Molly has lower back pain and possibly mild signs of ataxia at home. These signs are most likely due to an intervertebral disc herniation. She did have surgery for herniation at another site in January. He said currently, her signs are mild and he r He recommends Rimadyl 2x daily and rest for a month and see how shge progresses. He advised strict cage rest and short walks on the leash limiting Molly's activity. Avoid running, jumping or rough-housing.
I am hoping she will get over this. I am on pins and needles every time I take her out since she wants to jolt or tackle anything that sounds like or is another animal.
Dolores
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2014 19:35:15 GMT -7
Delores it is clear now from the dates you provided that Molly need to remain on 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks until graduation day of May 21. Rimadyl should only be giving when it has a known observative job to do, not as given in anticipation of a disc problem. So yes, I would stop the Rimadyl. Assess then closely for any hint of pain. If there is pain then you would report that observation to the vet. Likely he would say the anti-inflammatory would be used. Rimadyl can have some extremely serious sides effects. The FDA pamphlet is one of the best to educate about NSAIDs, what to watch for, when to stop and get vet help. Take a look at it here: www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htm I'm am pleased that your vet appreciates protection of the GI tract with Pepcid AC! Molly will learn to poop inside the small fenced area you provide. Give her a minute or two to do her business 1 and 2. Then pick her up and back to the crate. Take her out every 4 hours and give her a chance to potty. When you see her circling start giving the command "go potty" When she does give lavish praise. Soon Molly will get the idea to potty on command. |
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 7, 2014 20:50:00 GMT -7
Hi Dolores,
I would like to attempt to comment something about the laser, based on my experience. We've been doing laser sessions since September 2013, still, I am no expert, but I'll give you my own point of view. I've found it a great help after Hurley's two last surgeries (we've started laser after the incision has healed, once a week throughout the crating period), and in the beginning of / during conservative care (once every 1-2 weeks for the first month or so). As long as your Molly is otherwise healthy, you can go for laser sessions as often as is needed. However, if your dog has e.g. tumors, it is not recommended, since the laser "activates" the body and thus also the tumors can start growing. This is what I've been told, as cautionary advice. Your vet will know better. Anyway, in general, the laser itself is completely harmless, it just "boosts" the body and can assist in the healing process in case of spinal injury. My Hurley LOVES it! When we go for laser, he immediately goes and lies on the mattress on the floor and starts wagging his tail, ready for his session.
Our physiotherapist has used some type of a "dual" beam laser, so it penetrates soft tissue but also goes deeper into the body and really helps the spinal healing process. I think that's what most of them use. We've always started with 3-5 minute sessions and advanced up to 8-10 minutes/time. Your vet/physiotherapist knows what is the correct dosage and treatment cycle for Molly. I have noticed improvement in Hurley always about 24-48 hours after the laser session, not necessarily immediately after. This, I hear, is normal. You should watch for little signs like more ease in getting up to four feet, little more tail wag maybe, more alertness, perhaps a position lying down that Molly has not done in a long while. Also, you may note she looks less back to her back / leg. If you notice improvement, the laser is most likely helping Molly's recovery!
Lots of love,
from Hurley the dog - and Lola
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