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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Oct 30, 2013 16:40:55 GMT -7
Hi, I am new to IVDD but not to dachshunds, we have three at home.
Baxter is 7 years old and has up until now been pretty healthy, with a few instances of having difficulty getting up the stairs or on the bed in the last year. At check ups the vets just said to keep an eye on it. Well, last Friday Bax was having what we thought were tummy issues (his tummy was hard as a rock), and he was having trouble getting up the stairs. I thought he ate something like part of a toy, which is usually the case. Later that night, he completely lost the use of his back legs, it was so quick.
Took him to the vet who said he was paralyzed but still had pain sensation. Referred to a specialist and within one hour the specialist said he didn't detect pain sensation and that surgery was probably a must. They did a myelogram and saw the disk was ruptured pretty badly. He went in for surgery. Came home two days later, and now has some pain sensation but no control of bowel movements or back legs. We have to express his bladder which is proving difficult. He has some tarry stool which is probably from the prednisone, so we were advised to stop that and give pepcid ac. Pain seems controlled with tramadol twice a day.
Any stories about bladder control returning after stage V IVDD? What are his chances of walking again? We are trying to stay positive but it's so hard. We may try and start PT next week. Bax seems to want to sit (instead of laying down) in his kennel a lot when were active, is this okay or does it put stress on his back? Also, is there any safe toy or activity he can have in his kennel? I feel so bad for the poor guy.
I feel extremely overwhelmed. We have two other dachsies, a 3 year old, and I'm currently expecting.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 30, 2013 17:13:51 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name's Marjorie - what's yours? You certainly do have your hands full having Baxter experience an IVDD episode while you're expecting. I do know how overwhelming IVDD can be. We'll help you in any way we can. It's very good that his deep pain sensation has returned. There is no time table for when nerves can heal. Sometimes nerve function can return in a matter of weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years. You've done the best that you can by getting him the surgery he needed. Thankfully, he came through that OK and now he needs time to recover from the surgery and his nerves need time to heal. No one can tell you how much neuro function will return or when it will return. But certainly many dogs regain complete neuro functions again. Please know, too, that it takes a week or two for the swelling from the surgery to go down and until then, the nerves are not properly connecting yet. If you're having difficulty expressing his bladder, ask your vet for a hands on your hands demonstration. If they've already given you a demonstration, ask for another one. How often are you expressing and what difficulties are you experiencing? Here is our info on expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm It's fine that Baxter is sitting up instead of lying down. Can you give us some detail about your dog? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? -- Currently can your dog move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? -- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? -- Eating and drinking OK? -- What directives did the surgeon give for crate rest and for PT? -- Dogs with IVDD must be carried with their spines horizontal, carrying both ends. There's a video on this webpage showing how to properly lift and carry: -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html Dodgerslist website contains so much information that you need to read up on. Please go through the website and read, read, read so you can become knowledgeable about IVDD. Here are some links to get you started. Please click on all of them to get a good background of understanding. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmPrayers for a speedy and complete recovery for Baxter and peace of mind for you.
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Oct 31, 2013 8:48:14 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie, my name is Brittany. I want to thank you for responding to my post, it means a lot to me. Let me answer some of your questions:
No pain that I can see, he seems pretty comfortable actually, although maybe a little "down" if that makes sense.
Tramadol twice a day (will have to check mgs). He was on Prednisone once a day but we were advised to stop and administer pepcid AC because he had black tarry stool (not loose). He is going back to the vet today to see if we need to switch meds.
He cannot move his legs at all, no tail wagging. This morning though, we expressed his bladder and with some help was able to stand on his hind legs briefly.
Yes, if he has not been expressed for a long time there will be overflow on his bedding.
Yes, eating and drinking great.
Crate rest for 6 weeks, then reevaluation. PT such as laser therapy etc can begin very soon.
About the bladder, the reason I am concerned is that although I can almost always get quite a bit out when expressing (we do this every 4 hours or so), it is very concentrated and smelly. He also seems to have a bulging area on his right side, that the vet attributed to needing his bladder expressed when we brought him in on tuesday, but now it's back and I'm concerned.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Oct 31, 2013 15:29:11 GMT -7
Hi Brittany, if the urine is smelly and concentrated, then its possible Baxter might have a UTI. I would get a sterile urine sample to the vet asap to have tested.
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 1, 2013 14:48:29 GMT -7
So the vet says he is not concerned with the urine, he didn't test it so I'm still a little worried. I am always able to express him pretty well though so I don't think that's the issue. Maybe he's just not getting enough water.
I have a new question though, earlier I had mentioned that bax was getting dark tarry stool from the pred. The vet advised us to stop (he had only had two doses at that point), and since hasn't talked to us about restarting or switching to a different steroid. Should he definitely be on a steroid? Or do some dogs not need one. His poop is definitely back to normal now.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 1, 2013 18:44:03 GMT -7
The steroid would have been given to help get swelling down. Since he WAS given a steroid there would be a need for 4-7 days washout before starting the other class of anti-inflammatory called NSAIDs. So if the Tramadol is controlling post op pain fully there may be no need of additional meds at this point in time. So if he is his usual perky self, no shivering, no tight tummy, the Tramadol is sufficient. It would be a good idea to get a handle on meds used with IVDD..this is a very good article: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmHow about bringing in a urine sample to your local general DVM vet and ask him to run a urinalysis to rule out any bacteria starting to breed in the bladder.
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 3, 2013 8:00:43 GMT -7
Hi Paula, thanks I forgot about the washout period so that makes sense now. I thought his pain was controlled, but now that they have taken his pain patch off his tummy seems to be pretty tight. It's often hard to tell with him if he's in pain, he never yelps or shakes. I think a tight tummy was the only sign even before the surgery. Could he have a tight tummy from something else, or is this a for sure sign he needs some more pain meds? He does seem to rest comfortably and is not anxious, but I would hate for him to be in any pain.
The tight tummy, it seems, is making it very difficult to express him. He also hasn't been dribbling at all in his kennel, does this mean he's holding it on his own? If so, is that a good thing? We tried sniff and pee once yesterday with no luck. But some good news, he is able to wag his tail a little bit when we do happy talk right now.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 3, 2013 13:50:36 GMT -7
Britanny, good news on seeing the tail wag with happiness!! The next neuro function to return will be bladder control. When control starts to return they likely will not like you pressing on their bladders. Also where you express can make a difference. Outdoors with all the odors and goings on made my Clark tense up too much for me to feel his bladder. Expressing inside on a peed pad or at the bottom of a shower stall can help. I would take him out periodically for the sniff and pee test. Not dribbling means you are expressing often enough and fully at each session to keep him dry…that is the goal with expressing.
If he shows no other signs of pain other than a tight tummy…it likely is due to may a very early beginnings of sensation and bladder control coming back. Keep us updated on your giving him the sniff and pee test maybe once a day or every other day.
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 4, 2013 10:57:20 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
I definitely think he has bladder control back, because he tenses up a lot and hates it when I express. Plus no dribbling.
One question about the tail wag, he only does it once in awhile (not consistently), and it's just s mall amount of movement. Is this still a good sign?
Just spoke to the vet about the restarting the prednisone or another steroid, they say he doesn't need to be on any steroids. I'm sort of confused, I thought they were necessary for the healing process...Should I be pushing for them or is he okay without them?
Once again, he doesn't seem to be in any great amount of pain. He still gets tramadol.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 4, 2013 20:25:14 GMT -7
The tail wag is a great sign, even if he doesn't do it alot. Steriods are for inflammation and swelling, if there isn't any then he doesn't need them. The Tramadol will help with the pain that is due to having surgery. Keep an eye out for pain signs and let your Vet know if you think that his meds need adjustment. He is coming along just fine!
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 12, 2013 10:53:29 GMT -7
Thanks, I am trying to be hopeful and patient but it's so hard!
Update on Bax: He is making some small progress. More muscle tone in his back legs when we help him get into a standing position, faster reflexes when we squeeze between his toes, and *maybe* peeing a little on his own (it's hard to tell). He also tried to wag his little tail a lot this morning when we took him out of his kennel, sweet boy!
I feel like he's making progress, but I don't want to get my hopes up. The physical therapist seems optimistic but he's still showing no signs of walking or even really supporting his weight for more than a few seconds. Oh, also we are weaning him off the tramadol and he is doing so well, doesn't seem in pain at all.
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 12, 2013 18:46:07 GMT -7
Yay for tail wagging - he is showing GREAT signs of healing and good progress
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 12, 2013 18:48:03 GMT -7
We know the usual order nerves self repair in…. WHEN is the hard part…we just do have to have patience to let the body work on all the repair jobs.
So now that you have seen a happy tail wag to get out of his kennel, give the sniff and pee test a try. Carry him to an old pee spot in the grass. Watch for him to snff and then observe if he chooses to release urine…that would be passing the test! Let us know what you observe.
Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord:
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. -->Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 13, 2013 12:34:43 GMT -7
Some good news this morning, when we took bax out to pee he gave us even bigger tail wags, and proceeded to squat and poo on his own (tail in the funny arched position). I could also feel him flexing his muscles and stretching when I put him in the standing position.
We will try the sniff and pee test again, the problem is that in order for him to be outside we put him in the sling, and I can't tell if that's just putting pressure on his bladder so some comes out when he first sniffs...or if he's actually doing it on his own. If we set him down without the sling and support him he just goes wild trying to get going and will drag himself across the grass. Any suggestions?
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 13, 2013 13:37:52 GMT -7
You might consider making a sling like this one: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpgIt supports the legs with no pressure on the belly. Always use a harness when he goes out to potty so he doesn't take off. Also, you can use plastic stick in the ground type fencing to fence off a small area so he's limited to that spot to do his business. Use a harness with one hand to restrain him and hold his butt up with the other. If he does release some urine on his own, you should still try to express him for awhile until he gets complete control back to be sure that his bladder is completely empty. Let us know how it goes. It's great to see that big tail wags, isn't it?!
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 13, 2013 14:03:39 GMT -7
Those are great tips, thank you.
And the big tail wag put huge smiles on our faces!
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 14, 2013 10:50:13 GMT -7
More good news, Baxter passed the sniff and pee test! We took him out without his sling and he sniffed and peed an actual stream for a few seconds. Is it okay that he couldn't release all of it? We expressed him after to get the rest out.
AND I was just informed that he walked on the underwater treadmill at physical therapy this morning!
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 14, 2013 13:55:57 GMT -7
That's really wonderful, Brittany - all very good news indeed!! Sometimes when dogs first get back bladder control, it's not complete control and they still need a bit of help in completely emptying the bladder. So good job on expressing him afterwards. Very happy to hear of the improvements you've seen today.
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Post by Franck & Totoro on Nov 14, 2013 19:21:08 GMT -7
Awesome news for your little one. The joy we feel
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 25, 2013 17:07:59 GMT -7
Update on Baxter:
It has now been almost four weeks, and no recent major improvements, but Baxter still goes to physical therapy once a week. He still cannot support his own weight to walk on land but will walk in the underwater treadmill.
He seems content in his kennel, but I'm wondering if he will ever be able to be out again. I know I'm being impatient, but it seems as if many of the recent cases on this board began wobbly walking pretty soon after surgery...and Bax isn't really close to doing that. I really hope I'm just being impatient because I want him to walk again so badly.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 25, 2013 17:19:13 GMT -7
Hi, Britanny
I know how hard it is, watching every move he makes and wondering if he'll ever get leg function back again. Each dog is different and nerves have no time table for regeneration. My dog Jeremy took many weeks before he had any leg movement at all and then it was such little movement that I would think I had imagined it. And, as opposed to Baxter, when Jeremy did get some movement back in his legs, he didn't move them at all in the underwater treadmill. But he did regain use of his legs and he is walking again. It took him a good six months before he was walking and then it was very wobbly. It was almost a year before he was really walking well.
Not having deep pain sensation before surgery makes a big difference, too. Baxter has done quite well in the past month - getting that tail wag back, getting bladder control back and walking on the underwater treadmill. All are very good signs of nerve regeneration.
So hang in there and try not to look ahead to the future too much. Just enjoy every minute you have with your little guy.
Continued prayers for a complete recovery for Baxter.
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Nov 25, 2013 17:30:05 GMT -7
Thanks Marjorie, it really helps to hear Jeremy's story and to know that there is some hope down the line. I guess I just have my days!
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Post by Britanny & Baxter on Apr 22, 2014 9:47:01 GMT -7
I apologize for never updating his original thread but the good news is that Baxter began walking again about eight weeks after his surgery (he was completely paralyzed in his back legs and didn't have deep pain sensation before surgery)! He has one leg that is much stronger than the other, and because of that he compensates and sort of walks limpy and crooked. We are happy nonetheless. He also seemed to regain control of pooping and peeing around the same time he began walking. I do however, have a couple of questions for those of you who are veterans...
1. Baxters back literally looks "bent" now, or crooked...is this something we could help with physical therapy or is it just the way his back healed from surgery?
2. Baxter is starting to pee and poo in the house now all of the sudden, but it's almost like he doesn't know he's doing it...it just comes out when he's walking. Is it possible he is regressing? We are really worried.
Thanks so much for your help
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 29, 2014 7:31:44 GMT -7
Britanny, his back will likely over time have less of a hump. Dr. Isaacs tells us more about that in his Neuro Corner Q&A: www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/hump.htmDid Baxter had bladder and bowel control up til recently . By bladder control I mean he would sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then choose to release urine there. The order of nerve loss due to spinal cord injury has an order to it, so if this is spinal cord related you would expect loss of legs movement, then loss of bladder control. Since he can still walk, sounds like something else might be going on. Has he had a urinalysis to rule out leaking due to a bladder infection? Can he still pass the sniff and pee test? Have you observed any signs of pain (shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, not normal perky self)? As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions . 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function
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