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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 11, 2024 13:04:15 GMT -7
Give the mashed sweet potato a try. My dog loved that.
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 11, 2024 21:12:51 GMT -7
I will try that! We have been gone all day (5/11) and I got home to a very happy girl - she seems to be adjusting to the Pred taper with no additional pain - she had 25 mg of Gab this am
and I gave her another 25 mg of Gab at 8pm … but I don’t see any shivering, any hunched back …so far…..
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 11.9 lbs 6 y.o. 4/29 left rear knuckles Pred inject 4/29 pred 10mg tab as of 4/30: 5mgs 2x/ay for 5 days, 5/5 TEST TAPER for √5/6 pain _neuro as of 5/6 owner has on hand: 5mgs 2x/day for 4 days. 5/10 taper test gabapentin 100mgs tab: ▼25mgs 3x/day diazepam 2.5mgs 2x/day to stop 5/11 robaxin 125mgs 2x/day to stop 5/11 Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
She still has some runny poo - but not as bad as last nite - it’s still brown, not red or black …. She seems hydrated and ok - giving her boiled chicken for dinner.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 12, 2024 8:06:33 GMT -7
Sara, the progress with the pred taper does sound promising that all pain might be gone with diazepam and roboxin having been stopped 5/11. It will be known for sure when gabapentin has also stopped and there is no reporting of surfacing pain.
Could you clarify the meaning: It is not clear if you are today, 5/12, reporting a change in Gabapentin or not: --- gabapentin 25mgs 3x/day (reported changed on 5/10) --- gabapentin 25mgs 2x/day ( ?????)
Did you use the 1 tsp pumpkin or the sweet potatoe 1x/day?
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 12, 2024 8:21:44 GMT -7
5/11 was her first full day of no Diazepam or Robaxin - and yesterday was also the first day of Gab at 25mg 2x day instead of 50 mg 3xday… so yes as of today 5/12 she is still on Gab 25mg 2 day, morning and nite - she had a morning dose already but I may not give her the evening dose - to see how she does - she seems good - she’s rolling in her crate doing her “moanygronies” 🤣 She will not eat pumpkin and I have not gotten sweet potatoes yet but I will get one today - she is drinking and peeing and she did have diarrhea again in the middle of the nite but it was they same as yesterday - no black or blood that I can tell - and it is much less.
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Post by Ann Brittain on May 12, 2024 8:31:43 GMT -7
I'm glad Maylee is doing better and, hopefully, will be pain free after you stop giving her meds.
It's too bad she won't eat pumpkin, but you might have better luck with a sweet potato. Have you tried mixing the pumpkin with something she likes to eat? It only takes about a tablespoon to help with her digestion and would probably resolve her diarrhea issues.
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 12, 2024 9:05:26 GMT -7
I have tried mixing it in food she likes - she won’t eat it 🤣 - edit I will go to the store today and get a sweet pork or 2 and cook them up and try. As far as the meds for pain - I am kinda doing my own thing for her. My vet did not give any advice about the Gab other than keep giving it to her as needed. After reading the article about signs u need a new vet, and this episode of IVDD and Daisys episode years ago, I have decided to switch vet offices and have already been in contact with another office. It’s very frustrating to do this without support from the vets office. They have not reached out one time to me other than to return my calls. So I hope I am doing the right thing with lowering the Gab - I am afraid to take her off all together, but I know it’s necessary. So I will not give her another 25mg today and see what happens.
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Post by Ann Brittain on May 12, 2024 9:19:50 GMT -7
I understand where you're coming from. Our doxie, Charlie, would pick, even the smallest pieces, of foods he didn't like out of his dish. Fingers crossed that Maylee will like sweet potato. If she doesn't, you might discuss other options to relieve stomach upset with your vet.
I'm also hoping that when you take her off the meds that she doesn't show signs of pain.
It is difficult when you feel a vet isn't being as responsive as you'd like. I hope your new vet will give you better guidance and support.
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 13, 2024 10:06:11 GMT -7
It’s almost 2:00pm in CA- Maylee is quiet this afternoon (5/12) - I do not see any signs of pain, arched back, shivering etc…but she’s quiet and I’m trying not to be worried.
5/13 - Maylee seems to be doing ok. She received her Pred this am, but no Gab at all. Yesterday (5/12) she received Pred and Gab in the am only. I do not see any indication of pain, although she seems quiet. Which is good, so I’m trying not stress that’s she’s in pain.
She hasn’t had diarrhea for 24 hrs, although she has also not had any bowel movements in the last 24 hrs ….hopefully nothing to worry about and she’s just empty!
I have been been thinking about getting her an MRI after her 8 weeks is up - just to confirm the episode and possibly give me an idea of future episodes. I have called around to a couple places in Sacramento, waiting to hear back. It would not be an emergency MRI, just a scheduled one, if the cost is something I could afford. I have no idea how much they are. I also will be asking for places for physical therapy. I wish there was a mobile acupuncture person near me!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 13, 2024 10:51:41 GMT -7
Sara, good to hear no gabapentin today 5/13 and you are not seeing any of these signs of pain begin to surface: SIGNS OF PAIN: ⚙︎ shivering-trembling ⚙︎ yelping when picked up or moved ⚙︎ tight tense tummy ⚙︎ arched back, ears pinned bac ⚙︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ⚙︎ slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shift positions I'm sure with the diarrhea having ceased to empty her out, her body can resume a more normal daily digestion routine of poop in a day or so. Advanced imaging is really a miracle to have when actually needed. But to use them just to "see if" into the future...not so much. -- IVDD is unpredictable. Some dogs have multiple disc episodes over their lifetime. Other dogs only have one disc episode. -- The range in price for an MRI varies widely across the USA. California, NY are very likely to have high ranges of $3000+ to $5000 -- At the time of a problem, an MRI is the gold standard to proove whether there is a disc episode or if another disease that mimics IVDD. Vets use MRI to rule out the other diseases when they have a very high suspicion it may not be IVDD. Set aside your proposed MRI $$, now so it can earn interest. Hopefully Maylee will not need an MRI and you can take a nice vacation with her. Mostly disc episodes are diagnosed by the breeds prone to being born with IVDD (such as doxies), their past history with the disease, the way they act at the-hands-on neuro exam. Be savvy on imaging in advance. Know your x-rays and what they can and can't show. Know more about MRIs: -- Dr. Isaacs, Neuro surgeon at the Neuro Corner: dodgerslist.com/2020/08/20/myelogram-vs-mri-vs-xrays/ -- Imaging- CT, MRI, X-ray dodgerslist.com/2020/05/23/imaging/You last reported on May 5, that Maylee could correct a knuckling under paw right away. In the scheme of things that is very good. Even good if she might be a bit slow to correct the paw. DO UPDATE us on the details of her neuro function, if different as of what you observe today 5/13.TYPICAL ORDER OF NERVE HEALINGThere is not a time table, just the known order. Think more in terms of months rather than days/weeks for this slowest part of the body to self-heal. 1. √ yes!Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. 2. √ yes Tail wagging with joy at specifically hearing happy talk, seeing you or getting food. 3. √ yes Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. √ yes Weak rear leg movement, and then √ yes ability to move up into a standing position, and then √ yes wobbly walking. 5. √ yes Being able to walk with more steadiness and √ 5/5 properly place the paw without it knuckling under. 6. _Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. LEARN MORE: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/Knuckling: thumb.ibb.co/k3dqRS/Knuckling.jpg
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 13, 2024 12:48:11 GMT -7
Hmmmmm ok. I was thinking an MRI would confirm the episode and how bad it was and possible give me an idea of whether or not I will spend every day from here on out worrying it will happen again. I don’t necessarily want to be afraid of that every day 😫 - but such is doxie life I guess.
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 14, 2024 17:55:08 GMT -7
5/14 - It’s been a quiet day. Maylee seems to be resting fine. She gets overexcited when we come and go and bounces in her crate even with a blanket draped on top, but for the most part seems to be adjusting to just relaxing. She does not like sweet potatoes- ha! But she is back to her normal food - I am feeding her just a slight amount less due to her inactivity.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 14, 2024 18:28:47 GMT -7
Sara, Maylee is not physical active, but her body is VERY active in performing lots of repair jobs. Now is not the time to reduce nutrition the body needs. Cut out hi calorie store bought treats You can give her instead if she likes a tiny piece of carrot, apple as a treat for behaving. Also a frozen low salt-no onion broth cube to lick on is a good nutritious treat. This essay is one of the best I've ever read about the fear of IVDD. Check it out: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivdd?page=1
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 16, 2024 16:34:18 GMT -7
5/16 - things have been fairly quiet around here except Maylee’s runny bowel movements returned after not pooping for almost 3 days. She had 2 episodes in the middle of the nite last nite, but has been fine since her last at 5:30 this am. Again, other than runny, they look ok - no blood or black. She has been sleeping all day, which I am grateful for - she obviously needs the rest and it keeps her quiet. Tomorrow am (5/17) we taper the Pred down to 1/4 tab every day for 7 days.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 11.9 lbs 6 y.o. 4/29 left rear knuckles Pred inject 4/29 pred 10mg tab as of 4/30: 5mgs 2x/ay for 5 days, 5/5 TEST TAPER for √5/6 pain _neuro as of 5/6 owner has on hand: 5mgs 2x/day for 4 days. 5/10 taper testing: for _ pain for __ neuro gabapentin 100mgs tab: 25mgs 3x/day Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
5/14 posted: What a wonderful story!!! I have no doubt I will hold my breath and be so nervous when she is released from the crate - but I have no doubt happy tears will fall at the sight of it as well!!! I will rethink her meals - I haven’t cut them by much - but admit I have a little - she does love an apple and carrot treat 👍🏻
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 17, 2024 8:06:48 GMT -7
Sara, sorry to hear loose stool is back. Are you trying plain mashed white potoato 1 tsp per day to see if that will help with loose stool.
Not sure the reason why runny stool. Hopefully with the final every other day (EOD) pred dose the loose stool will clear up.
What is the current gabapentin dose in mgs and times per day? When will gabapentin stop so that there are no pain meds on board al all to block you from observing if all swelling is actually gone?
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 17, 2024 8:09:43 GMT -7
I never thought of white potatoes- she won’t eat sweet potato or pumpkin. She has been off Gab for about 3 days (I’m not able to check my chart) - it may actually be closer to 5 days with no pain meds. She seems ok - she doesn’t appear to be wobbly when she goes outside - she bounces and wriggles with excitement when she see us - so much that it worries us and we rush to get her calm again! I worry about her lack of movement in the crate - I know she needs to rest but I don’t want her to loose muscle or strength either. My largest stress is a trip coming up the end of the month - I would normally take her as my sister has doxies as well - but of course I will not be this time - but that means I have to find a house/dog sitter who will be as vigilant as my family.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 17, 2024 14:05:45 GMT -7
It is possible that there may be some muscle atrophy during crate rest. Once crate rest is over, the muscles will quickly build up again. Too much movement at this time could cause a relapse of the healing disc, which may damage leg nerves. Muscle will return quickly after crate rest, but injured nerves take a very long time to heal.
dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Muscle-atrophy-500-94kb.jpg
When you take the trip, it is very important to have a pet sitter that understands the importance of limited movement. Perhaps your vet could recommend someone. Vet techs sometimes do pet sitting on the side.
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 19, 2024 18:49:31 GMT -7
5/19 - Maylee is doing ok - she still has a hunched back a bit from inflammation I am assuming. She is on 1/4 tab of Pred (2.5 mg) every morning.
She is becoming increasingly loud in her crate - barks all the time - bounces and gets excited to see us or demanding.
We have been mindful not to indulge her, so as to try not to reinforce the bad behavior, but the barking is becoming very irritating and stress the whole family out. I am not one to medicate my dog unless needed…. But sheesh, sometimes I wanna give her a Gab to calm her down and make her relax. The barking is fairly new - I almost feel like it’s gonna get worse as she feels better. She also now wriggles and wriggles to get out of our arms while carrying her to the bathroom - it’s scary cuz it feels as if we could drop her if not holding her tight and then we don’t want to hurt her. Just venting I suppose.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 19, 2024 19:26:01 GMT -7
Sara, as they begin to feel better, often they are a challenge! Keeping the back from too much movement til graduation day on June 24, is key to preventing a relapse to the disc. A relapse of increased pain and potential of damage to the spinal cord would mean starting at square one of 8 weeks crate rest to heal the disc. More vet bills. Do not use gabapentin or any other pain med as it will muddy the water regarding during the pred taper of correctly assessing if there is still pain or not. See what you can do to explain the behavior situation to the vet. Advocate for trazadone or other sedation drug to help her be able to be calm in the recovery suite. Check out the Emergency Crate Training page: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/tips-to-help-with-recovery-suite/( After 5/20/24: www.dodgerslist.com/adjusting-to-recovery-suite/ ) See if there might be something to help manage Maylee's behavior to be more calm, less noisy. Consider some of these ideas:-- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/17/pet-stroller-conservatve-treatment/( After 5/20/24: www.dodgerslist.com/pet-stroller-conservatve-treatment/-- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. -- Thundershirt® to calm anxieties similar concept as swaddling an infant to calm. thundershirt.com/products/thundershirt-for-dogs---Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. Dogs are generally much calmer when they are focused and aware of how to act to get what they want. To achieve this, reward your dog with a high-value food treat the moment she looks at you. You can also say "yes" or use a clicker to mark the exact moment your dog looks at you. Then quickly follow up with a treat [NOTE: for crate resting dogs, shift your body a bit] Wait for your dog to look up at you once more., Say, “Yes,” before giving treat. After about ten repetitions, say, "All done," and put the treats away. Come back later and repeat the exercise until you notice that your dog is genuinely beginning to make eye contact automatically in anticipation of hearing "Yes" once more and receiving his reward. [NOTE: treats should be deducted from the normal daily kibble intake to prevent weight gain gain weight during crate rest. The size of the treat is irrelevant to dogs. ] wholedogtraining.com/images/stories/Are_all_dogs_trainable.pdf-- Provide a lick mat in the recovery suite. Freeze with some soaked and mushed up kibble, a slight slather of canned dog food or other lo-cal smear, as a very tiny treat but one that will take a lot of time to consume. Use as long as your dog is not exceeding the requirement of little neck/back movement during the recovery rest period www.amazon.com/s?k=lick+mat+for+dogs&crid=RO08LX3WJGGZ&sprefix=lick+ma%2Caps%2C302&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_7
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 20, 2024 7:51:43 GMT -7
Ugh - this am 5/20 I gave Maylee her Pred on accident instead of the Pepcid first … I gave the Pepcid about 15 minutes later after I realized the mistake I made - that’s the 1st pill mess up I have done 🤦🏼♀️ - I hope it doesn’t mess too much up 😫
[posted 5/19] Ok - I’m pretty sure she’s not in pain anymore-ha. Between the bouncing and the wiggles and standing on her back legs against the Xpen after she pees, it’s everything we can do to calm her down and keep her down. She is the typical high-strung, high-energy, stubborn doxie! Haha - but I will call the vet tomorrow and see if I can get the other drug. Her crate is on wheels so she can be wheeled around the house with us, which helps for sure. I will revisit the other suggestions.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 20, 2024 10:22:46 GMT -7
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 20, 2024 11:44:06 GMT -7
I have been using the chart since her episode - it works amazing - I just accidentally grabbed the Pred instead of the Pepcid - she seems fine so glad to hear it stays in ur system 12 hrs or so. She is no longer on any Gab and has not been her last dose [gabapentin] at 7am on 5/12. I believe the last day of her Pred taper will be 6/2.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 11.9 lbs 6 y.o. 4/29 left rear knuckles Pred inject 4/29 pred 10mg tab as of 4/30: 5mgs 2x/ay for 5 days, 5/5 TEST TAPER for √5/6 pain _neur as of 5/6 owner has on hand: 5mgs 2x/day for 4 days. 5/10 taper testing: for _ pain for __ neuro; final dose 6/2 gabapentin 100mgs tab: 25mgs 3x/day STOPPED 5/12 Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
I also ordered her some Omega 3 and Dasuquin - I’m a little nervous to give her something new right now - I don’t want to cause her anymore tummy upset - we just got things back to normal.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 20, 2024 12:16:58 GMT -7
Sara, as you thought, it would not be a good idea to add any supplement while any of the IVDD meds are on board. If GI tract issues would surface there would not be a way to pin on the supplements or the IVDD meds. Loose stool due to meds is serious... loose stool due to supplements could be passing thing.
So do hold off on Omega 3 and Dasuquin until fully off of all meds and no indication of pain has surfaced.
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 20, 2024 12:55:13 GMT -7
Thanks - that’s my plan - to hold off until the middle to end of June - that way she can use the bathroom by herself if needed. I still would like to get her some physical therapy after she gets released - but the closest is an hr away, but probably worth the drive to help strengthen her back and legs.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 20, 2024 15:55:27 GMT -7
We look forward to graduation day on June 24. Mark your calendar for June 24.
Then with your update on neuro function and how she is doing overall, we will have LOTs of information that pertains to where Maylee is at that time. Info to help you decide on PT at home or PT at a clinic. Info on how to slowly and safely re-introduce her back to family life upon graduation.
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 21, 2024 18:54:37 GMT -7
5/21 - I was able to get ✙Trazodine [?mg ?x/day] for Maylee for her hyper anxiety at times . She is calm durning the week when it’s just me at home - but gets super upset on the weekends - when the entire family is home and very busy. how exactly does it work? Just make them tired? PS - She loves apples 🤣🤣
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 11.9 lbs 6 y.o. 4/29 left rear knuckles Pred inject 4/29 pred 10mg tab as of 4/30: 5mgs 2x/ay for 5 days, 5/5 TEST TAPER for √5/6 pain _neuro as of 5/6: 5mgs 2x/day for 4 days. 5/10 taper testing: for _ pain for __ neuro; final dose 6/2 ✙traZODone 50mg ?x/day Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 24, 2024 13:14:09 GMT -7
Trazadone works by increasing serotonin levels in the brain, which helps to relieve anxiety. It is mildly sedating, so it may make the dog more sleepy. Being a little more sleepy on busy weekends might not be a bad thing during the crate rest period if it helps keep her calm.
What dosage and frequency has been prescribed?
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 24, 2024 21:18:04 GMT -7
Thanks!! I didn’t get to talk to a vet tech, just the girls at the desk…. They gave her✙[traZODone] 50mg to take as needed - or morning and night …. I don’t plan on using it u less she’s very restless. Durning the week when it’s just me home , she’s quiet and good - bit when the whole fam is home and lawns are being mowed and outdoor work is done - she freaks out - cuz she’s usually outside getting her toys thrown 😩 and she knows it. Poor girl - but she is doing really really well in her crate for the most part.
Do u think I should use 1/2 a pill to test? Or give her a full dose? I would like to try it this weekend before she has a sitter next weekend.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 25, 2024 11:49:24 GMT -7
Sara, appreciate your providing the new Trazadone med information. We base our replies on your accurate information. In searching for other about 12lbs dogs on the Forum, their owner's have reported actual dosing of traZODone at 25mgs as needed. It is always a good thing to as you intend to do of giving the dose when you are at home to observe. Each dog can be different so, you will need to work out if you need more or less mgs of trazadone. This is a valuable website to get good information to be aware of. The Mar Vista Veterinary directory for drugs: explains how long in advance you may want to give a dose, why you may want to start with a lower dose, and what side effects there could be. www.marvistavet.com/libraries.pml Here is the direct link to traZODone: www.marvistavet.com/trazodone.pmlHow about some relaxing sounds to hopefully mitigate the agitating family outdoor work noise?? Relaxation Music for Dogs! Here's the playlist for all 70+ "tunes" 10 hours of calming rain sounds: 6 hours of Relaxing music: 6 hours of relaxing music for anxiety:
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Post by Sara & Maylee on May 26, 2024 21:29:43 GMT -7
5/27 Update - I think even 1/2 a Trazadone is too much - Has anyone ever given a 1/4?
------------- 5/25 Thank you for the links! I plan to give her 1/2 a [traZODone] pill tomorrow afternoon- we will be home and I will be able to observe her reaction to the meds. I will let you know!
Today 5/26 was Maylees 1st day of no Pred - she is beginning 2.5 mg every other day for a week …. I also gave her 25mg of Trazadone this afternoon while we were all home and busy - it seemed to help - she’s clearly relaxed - hahaha
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 27, 2024 7:51:39 GMT -7
Sara, every dog is different. So you will have to figure out what works for Maylee in mgs and times per day.
Let us know what works for Maylee. trazodone ?mg ?x/day
Fingers cross that the final every other day prednisone dose, will continue to show no pain surfacing.
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