Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 25, 2023 18:31:15 GMT -7
[Original subject line:Tank Mini Doxie 7 yrs Cervical IVDD ] Dog’s Name: Tank Mini Longhaired Dachshund, age 7, 13.8 lbsMy name: Jodi Day No specific diagnosis but obvious cervical IVDD. We have only seen a general DVM 6.25.2023 Has been Very bad pain for 4 days in a row (was not good before but very bad now) Trembling and yelping when picked up or moved. Reluctant to move much in crate. Arched back from time to time, head held low to ground. My first instinct was no surgery - costly and not always effective. But now, I may be willing if it will help. He is so young. Still eating well. Potties well, and usually BM 2 X day. Tail wags. Progressively worse until now constant pain, can’t get up easily, walks slowly, muscle spasms, trembles if he hurts when being lifted out of bed (to set outside for potty). He is beginning [6/25?] to show signs of wobbly back legs. Current Medication Regimen: Gabapentin 100 mg for pain 2 x day Methocarbamol 500 mg 2 x day (muscle relaxer) Tramadol 12.5 mg 3 x day or as needed. Currently 3 x [MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
13.8 lbs 7 y.o.
Started crate rest 6/25
back legs wobbly as of 6/25
Meloxidyl stopped on 6/7 with 3-day washout to Dex
Dex as of 6/10: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days, then a test taper for: 6/25 pain / _neuro
?as of 6/26 relapse: ?mg ?x/day for ? days then a test taper for: _ pain / _neuro ] Gabapentin 100 mg for pain 2x/day
Methocarbamol 125 mg 2x/day
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/day]
So…today 6.25.2023 is day 1 one of strict crate rest! Tomorrow 6.26.2023 will be the first full day Have not started the strict crate rest as I’ve read here and now learned the reasons for. I didn’t realize how important it was since all he is doing is going from one bed to another but that is not enough. We thought walking when he wanted to walk the perimeter of the fence would be good for him. And…sometimes he needs to walk around before he will poop History: My dog first showed signs of this at the beginning of May but I did not recognize it. Took him to Vet because he kept walking with his head down. Doc prescribed Meloxicam. That seemed to work for while. 6.5.2023 Back to vet who prescribed: Methocarbamol 500 mg 2x day Gabapenten 100 mg 2x day Meloxidyl daily Doing well by evening. No stiff neck, no obvious pain. 6.7.2023 Back to vet: stiff neck, obvious pain, muscle spasms, doesn’t want to move. After this visit (which was traumatic for him, had a very bad evening. That evening: Hunch back in middle, tense stomach (first time – I thought it was the Omeprazole). Fed by hand (happy to eat, just not happy to move) New protocol: stop Meloxidyl. Will add Dexamethasone .75mg after a few days ( completed 6.20.2023) Add Tramadol 50 mg cut into 1/3 3 x day Adequan injection Omeprazole 10 mg cap daily (only gave once but will start again, see above for why) 6.10.2023 – 10 th day of what I was calling crate/Leash/confinement (which I now realize was not enough). Basically he is being taken outside for supervised potty on harness/leash and is only allowed to get up for potty, eat, and to move from one bed (or crate) to another and sleeping in crate at night. 3-4 “good days”. 2 bad days. 2 good days. So BAD. Has had 2 laser therapy sessions and one acupuncture. After the last vet appt with laser and acupuncture he has gotten worse. I’m scared, and he is in bad pain. Has been off steroid since 6.20.2023 All bad days since 6.21.2023. Terrible. Still potties, eats, tail wags if not recently moved. Very bad. Should I consider surgery? Should I put him down? I am so sad. Just now reading thru all the information here. 
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 25, 2023 20:32:37 GMT -7
Jodi, welcome! We are very glad you are here. We CAN help you and Tank. #1 Tank can heal now that you are giving him the single most important of care: 100% STRICT rest to let the the disc heal. All meds start the count from today in getting the disc to heal and to keep him in comfort round the clock. 1) CALL the vet asap in the morning unless you've seen an ER vet and can call them tonight to get the meds properly adjusted. Provide missing info in PINK on the med list so we can speak to the accurate and best understand Tank's situation. Meloxidyl stopped on 6/7?Dex as of relapse 6/25: 0.75mgs ?x/day for ? days, then a test taper for: _pain / _neuro ]
Gabapentin 100 mg for pain 2x/day
Methocarbamol 500 tab ? mg 2x/day
Tramadol 12.5 mg 3x/day
Adequan injection how often? last date given?Omeprazole as of 6/25 10 mg 1x/day] 🚩 Pain meds gabapentin, methocarbamol and traMADol last for 8 hrs and the reason to promptly Rx them for every 8 hrs ( 3x/day)🚩 traMADol is way under medicated for an almost 14lbs/6.35kg dog! The usual in controlling pain is to Rx at the higher end of the mg range AND promptly every 8 hours. 2 READING REFERENCES: 🚩 Steroid Dex needs to be back on board to work on all the painful inflammation. Bone up and be prepared to best understand your vet, speak up when necessary to advocate for Tank: ==> dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/ 🚩 Methocarbamol comes in a 500mgs tablet. Verify the dose mgs. Often that would be 125mgs for a 14 lbs dog.You may not have absorbed all that was said at a vet visit, with the emotion of learning your dog was born with IVDD. Tank can heal with conservative treatment now with your attention to very limited movement of his neck and back spine. 🚩 Dr. Lawsen explains how conservative treatment works, the meds, the strict rest
🚩 There are extra things you can do at home to help the neck heal, such as softening hard kibble, raising food/water dishes, etc. More info here: ==> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tips/🚩 Calm your mind. Gain a realistic idea of how long it takes to heal. This is one of the most frequent questions asked. Here is the answer along with two tools to help you during your dog's recovery time: ==> dodgerslist.com/most-asked-disc-disease-ivdd-questions Look forward to your filling in the med list info above in PINK. And that first thing in Mon morning what the vet does to adjust meds to get that pain in control round the clock plus the steroid Dex back on board. Without crate rest, the disc could not heal and all meds prior to 6/25 have been for naught. The count now starts at square one on 6/25 with Tank finally on a good track to healing with conservative treatment. |
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Jodi & Tank
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MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 26, 2023 8:10:30 GMT -7
Thank you so much!
Meloxidyl stopped on 6/7/23
Dex as of 6/10: 0.75mgs was 2x/day for 4 days; then 1 x day for 4 days, then 1/2 tab 1xday for remainder (threw away the bottle, will find out exactly)
No test taper done. Can I do that?: _pain / _neuro ]
Gabapentin 100 mg for pain 2x/day
Methocarbamol 125 mg 2x/day (500 mg tab split into quarters)
Tramadol 16.6 mg 3x/day (it's a 50 mg tab to be cut into thirds)
Adequan injection: began 6/7 2x/week; last date given: 6/21/23 I have a syringe but not good with giving shots. last attempt hurt Tank. now afraid to administer. Should I pursue this? I can get more syringes from vet.
Omeprazole as of 6/25 10 mg 1x/day - not currently on. took 1 pill.
Calling vet this morning
Waiting on a call back from Vet/Pharmacy about adding Dex and adjusting pain meds.
Can Gabepentin 100mg be given every 8 hours too?
Any suggestions on how to administers pills/capsules without moving neck?
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 26, 2023 9:42:15 GMT -7
Jodi, 🚩 Pain meds gabapentin, methocarbamol and traMADol last for 8 hrs and the reason to promptly Rx them for every 8 hrs (3x/day) to provide round the clock, night and day comfort from pain. Once pain ramps up it is more difficult to get back into control. Assume a disease that is painful IS, indeed, painful and treat as such. Michael Richards, DVM: When pain relievers must be given after an injury has occurred it sometimes takes much higher doses to tamp down the pain and get it under control. It is good to keep this in mind, because many people make the mistake of using low doses of pain reliever initially, hoping they will work.
Another way of thinking about it [pain] is like a seesaw. You can put a rock on the high end of seesaw and it might not cause it to go down. If you add a second rock that might not move it, either. But eventually you will reach the point where the weight on the upper end suddenly causes the high end of the seesaw to fall. This is how pain threshold works. You really don't feel pain even though something has the potential to cause it until there is enough "weight" to tip over the pain threshold -- then you feel it suddenly. www.vetinfo.com/dpain.html🚩 Giving meds 1. Three treat method: Put the pill into the well of a small mashed banana ball, a cream cheese ball, liverwurst ball, Gerber Lil' meat sticks, or inside of a sticky small marshmallow and sealed completely so no taste is on the exterior. NOTE: traMADol and gabapentin are very bitter! Wash your hands to be clean of all bitter pill dust when assembling the treat balls. Use the three treat method. Prepare 2 treats with no meds inside PLUS the med ball. Give plain treat while holding med ball in front of his eyes. The idea is your dog will be greedy after the first treat to get the 2nd. Immediately hold the 3rd plain treat so he will hurry to swallow the med ball to get to treat #3. 2. Pilling a dog
Steroids like Dex MUST be tapered by the direction of the vet. Your vet gave a very short 4-day course of Dex and then called for the taper (reducing of Dex). Expect with the 6/25 disc replase, it could normally take 7-30 days to get all the painful swelling down (excluding any taper days). Often vets will guess at a 5-7 day course or even a 14-day course and then a taper to see if all painful inflammation is gone or not. Sometimes it can take several courses to fully resolve painful swelling around the cord.With the use of any anti-inflammatory drug (Meloxidyl or steroid Dex), an acid suppressor should be on board. Best choice is Pepcid AC (famotidine) from grocery store which is effective in 30 mins. However, omeprazole may not be the best choice with IVDD..... because it takes 3-5 days to reach peak effectiveness until it is good at suppressing stomach acid production. Read and be able to discuss things and advocate for Tank: ==> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/ Hope these ideas will be a good help to you.
p.s. ➡️ EMAIL ALERTS You can receive email alerts when someone has posted. Timely interaction/communications is needed when helping your dog. Bookmark your dog's thread to receive an email alert when someone has replied.
1. Look for your dog's thread and checkmark it. 2. Look for the white ACTIONS button towards top. 3. Select “Notification Options" from the pull down menu — check mark “NEW POST” change from never to INSTANT email — press the SAVE button. Click the “x” to close the window 4. Next choose the “Bookmark” See the tiny book symbol now! |
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 26, 2023 10:35:32 GMT -7
Vet is prescribing another round of Dex today. Haven't picked it up yet.
New med protocol 6.26.2023:
Vet said not to increase the Gabapentin (currently 100 mg for pain 2x/day) - but asked if I was halving the capsule (I am not). Would it be more prudent to give half the Gabapentin (50 mg) capsule every 8 hours rather than 2x 100 mg doses daily?
▲Methocarbamol increasing from 125 mg 3x/day (500 mg tab split into quarters)
Tramadol 16.6 mg 3x/day (it's a 50 mg tab to be cut into thirds) (same)
Starting another round of Dex today. Haven't picked up yet.
Pecip AC will start 6.16 ? mg today.
Thanks for all the tips! Much love!
UPDATE: 6.26.2023
Start 6.26.23 (PM) Dexamethasone 0.75 mg tabs 2xday - 4 days
then 1/2 tablet 2x day 4 days
then 1/2 tablet 1x day 4 days
✙Pepcid AC 5mg tab 2x/day
Tramadol 16.6 mg 3x/day
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day
Gabapentin 100mg 2x/day
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
13.8 lbs 7 y.o.
Started crate rest 6/25
back legs wobbly as of 6/25
Dex as of 6/10: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days, then a test taper for: 6/25 pain / _neuro
as of 6/26 relapse: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days 6/29 a test taper for: _ pain / _neuro ]
Gabapentin 100 mg 2x/day
Methocarbamol 125 mg ▲3x/day
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/day
✙Pepcid AC (famotdine) 5mgs 2x/day]
How do I do every 8 hours for a med that is 2x/day (that is every 12 hours)
Do I need to set alarm for two different times during the night? (willing, just wondering if I should measure out the gabapentin somehow?)
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 26, 2023 16:11:49 GMT -7
Jodie, it is your vet's job to Rx (write the prescription) for meds. It is your job to be his eyes and ears at home to monitor. Report pain asap so he would know a med adjustment is needed. Have no patience at all with pain as it hinders healing. When the pain meds are correctly Rx for Tank's needs, expect pain to be in control in one hour and stays that way til next doses. The best pain medications control is using more than one approach to address pain from multiple fronts ( √traMADol-general analgesic, √methocarbamol- muscle spasm pain, √gabapentin-nerve pain). All three pain meds normally need to be prescribed three times a day (every 8 hrs.) If not getting full pain control, then your job is to report and advocate for 3x/day SIGNS OF PAIN to monitor for:⚙︎ shivering-trembling ⚙︎ yelping when picked up or moved
⚙︎ tight tense tummy ⚙︎ arched back, ears pinned bac
⚙︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position
⚙︎ slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shift positions
⚙︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves
➕if a neck disc:
◻︎ head held high/ nose to the ground
◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily.
◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain
◻︎ holds front or back leg up flamingo style not wanting to bear weight A medication chart is useful to see patterns, have dates and specific facts handy as you discuss things with the vet. D/l a sample and a blank form to use with your dog's meds dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/med-chart-printable.pdf** i.postimg.cc/6QLMK2Jp/Med-Chart-PREVIEW.jpgThe vet has prescribed Gabapentin for 2x/day. Your job is to advocate for 3x/day if pain is not being controlled. You should inch dose time backwards or forwards in hr increments over a couple of days til the dosing times are not having you waking in the middle of the night. The sample med chart gives you an idea of a pretty typical 3x/day dosing schedule. |
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Jodi & Tank
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MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 26, 2023 16:16:18 GMT -7
Thank you, Paula.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 26, 2023 16:28:55 GMT -7
Mark your med chart for a 6/29 (or maybe it is 6/30 morning?) start date to taper Dex. Tank got a 4-day course of dex. Normally, with the date of the taper, the pain meds are also stopped so you are able to quickly and accurately able to assess for pain. Let us know if pain meds will also be stopped on 6/29------------- Rule of thumb on Dex taper pain = swelling = back to original anti-inflammatory dex dose, +pain meds and Pepcid AC no pain = go to conclusion of Dex taper. No pain meds, just Pepcid AC for duration of dex. Finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal -------------
The full details on how the steroid Dex, an anti-inflammatory works with a disc episode. Good reading to be able to ask the right questions and discuss treatment: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/ |
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Jodi & Tank
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MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 27, 2023 12:00:35 GMT -7
The morning of 6/30/23 will be the first taper day. So, I should I stop the pain meds the day before? Skip the last 8 hour round or what? and when should I do the pain test?
6.27.2023 The vet said I could half the ▲Gabapentin 100 mg capsule and administer 3x/day (i.e. now 50 mg 3x/day)
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
13.8 lbs 7 y.o.
Started crate rest 6/25
back legs wobbly as of 6/25
Dex as of 6/10: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days, then a test taper for: 6/25 pain / _neuro
as of 6/26 relapse: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days; 6/30 a test taper for: _ pain / _neuro ]
Gabapentin ▼50 mg ▲3x/day
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotdine) 5mgs 2x/day]
I have a friend who had a doxie who hind legs were paralyzed. They gave Adequan shots daily for about a month or so. What are your thoughts on Adequan?
I already see a huge improvement in his pain level.
XOXO
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 27, 2023 14:01:12 GMT -7
Good news that you are seeing a reduction in pain.
All steroid type medications like Dex must be tapered. This is because when steroids are taken the body cuts way back on cortisol production. The taper doses are to get back down to the level the body normally produces and thus signal the body to again make its own steroid hormone, cortisol.
But the taper can also be used to determine if all the swelling in the spinal cord is gone. When the steroid taper starts and the pain meds are stopped or cut back, if pain is seen, there is still swelling in the spinal cord and more time on the full dose of the steroid is needed. The pain meds and Pepcid are also needed. This is what we mean by test for pain.
If the taper starts on June 30, stop or cut back the pain meds on that day. The vet can tell you if he prefers stopping the pain meds or cutting back.
Adequan injections, along with pain meds can be helpful but if you are having trouble giving the injections, they are not necessary. This is especially true if pain is already under control. |
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 27, 2023 16:58:33 GMT -7
Jodi, as Romy says, it is good to hear there is improvement in pain control. However what we want to know is there now full pain control round the clock, when he has to move for potty time, to eat? If not full control, let the vet know. The taper day is 6/30 morning. Make sure and let us know if the vet is on board with stopping of all pain meds (gabapentin, methocarbamol and traMADol) on 6/30. Your job at home is to observe for pain. Of course if there is any hint of pain before the taper, then it naturally would not be time to do a taper. Instead alert the vet of pain observations and expect another course of Dex. Thank you for making it clear the vet said gabapentin 50 mgs 3x/day is ok. Do it. gabapentin lasts for 8 hrs. and makes sense to dose every 8 hrs. Adequan® may be helpful for joints in the spine (zygapophysial joints) suffering with arthritis. Also a disk collapse often will increase joint stress which can contribute to pain in joints. Read more ==> about Adequan However, pain meds, which block pain symptoms, are the front line meds to fully block pain and provide full comfort for the dog. Paralyzed legs are due to nerve damage. It is only the body which heals nerve damage. There are no medications that heal nerves. Check out the Conservative ROAD MA{P to more fully understand the the 4 phases of healing with a disc episode. dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdfPlease update us with each post on Tank's pain and any changes in neuro function (details of improvements or diminishment). Is pain fully under control with your changing to Gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day? If not, alert the vet. He may want to use the max analgesic dose of traMADol 3x/day (see my 6/25 post). |
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 28, 2023 8:51:40 GMT -7
6/27/23 1:00 pm time for pain med dosing, noticed tense tummy. This was the day we switched from Gabapentin 100mg/2x/day to 50 mg 3/day. Pain seemed to diminish quickly after meds.
6/27/23 no yelps, no trembling, no tensing 5pm potty break and 9:30 pm potty break
6/28/23 no yelps, no trembling, no tensing 7:30 am potty break
6/28/23 no yelps, no trembling, no tensing 10:00 am potty break
6/28/23 no yelps, no trembling, no tensing 5pm potty break
6/28/23 no yelps, no trembling, no tensing, 8pm potty break
No BM today.
Goes back to crate no prob; low energy but oh so much better re: pain/comfort. TY
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 28, 2023 13:10:51 GMT -7
This is very good news. Gabapentin only stays in the body for a short time, so 3x/day is more likely to provide full pain relief.
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Jodi & Tank
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MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 29, 2023 18:58:03 GMT -7
The vet did not call me back today and I left a detailed message about having a plan since this is a holiday weekend. I will check in with her again tomorrow morning.
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Jodi & Tank
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MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jun 30, 2023 8:51:58 GMT -7
My Vet's advice for taper day was not to stop or decrease Gabapentin, Tramadol or Methocarbamol.
She said on taper day 7.1.23 if he does not do well, go back to 2x/day thru the weekend. She said if he did not do well I should consider consulting with Mission or Blue Pearl Vet Hospital which is 60 miles away. Tank has not pooped since 6.27.23. Still no signs of pain. What I did notice: yesterday and this morning that when I pick him up and have him in my hands/arms he is lightly grunting like a puppy does when picked up with belly is full. Almost like a wheezing, but not from lungs/chest. More gutteral. But not alarming, just slight discomfort of some sort maybe? Maybe cos his intestines are full! The vet advice given to me above does not line up with Dodgerslist.  |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 30, 2023 13:42:47 GMT -7
I understand your vet does not agree with stopping or cutting back the pain meds during the taper, some vets do not want to do this. Below is the reason many vets have for cutting back or stopping.
If a dog is on a steroid taper and pain meds are still being used, it will take longer to know if the swelling in the spinal cord is gone. Swelling in the spinal cord causes pain. If pain meds are used, pain will be masked. There might still be swelling in the spinal cord that should be addressed by the full dose of the anti-inflammatory, but with pain meds on board masking pain, it will be harder to tell.
I am sorry that Tank is constipated. This is fairly common for IVDD dogs. Tramadol sometimes has constipation as a side effect. Also, the lack of activity during the crate rest period may lead to a sluggish bowel. Consider trying pumpkin. It worked well for my dog and some others on this list. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with 1 teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight, 1x a day.
I didn't think my dog would like pumpkin but he did. If your Tank does not like pumpkin, alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato.
Blue Pearl is far away, but they would likely have a neurologist in the practice. Sometimes a consultation with a board certified neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) is not for surgery The consultation would be because the local general vet is not comfortable in aggressively using anti-inflammatory drugs for a long enough period to get the swelling down. If it does turn out that this taper does not work and your vet no longer feels comfortable treating Tank, you could consider a specialist. |
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jul 1, 2023 15:00:17 GMT -7
7.1.2023 today was taper day. Tank was supposed to have drop down to 1 Dex/day. I really didn't know when to give the 1 tablet, so I thought I would wait until evening?
Also, I went against my vets advice and stopped all pain meds anyway.
Around 4pm we went back on pain meds, gabapentin, tramadols and muscle relaxer methocarbamol.
He pottied around 1 or 1:30 and we left him in his crate, he seemed fine. Came back at 4pm and he wet himself in the crate. I think he did it when he heard us come home (excited) so maybe he is having some incontinence too. Took him out of crate, to see if he would potty more and noticed he was walking stiff and I also saw muscle spasms back in his neck.
Made the decision to give the pain meds and 1 .75 Dex and a pepcid.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
13.8 lbs 7 y.o.
Started crate rest 6/25
back legs wobbly as of 6/25
Dex as of 6/26: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days; 6/30 a test taper for: √7/1 pain / _neuro
Gabapentin 50 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/dayresumed upon pain 7/1
Pepcid AC (famotdine) 5mgs 2x/day for duration of Dex]
We did give Tank some pumpkin last night and a bit and he pooped! yay! that's the good news.
I will call for appointment with Neurologist in San Antonio Monday, and get a consultation since my vet said that's what I should do.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 1, 2023 15:24:28 GMT -7
If Tank is showing signs of pain, like muscle spasms and is walking more stiffly, the swelling in the spinal cord is unlikely to be gone. This means that more time on the full dose of pred, pain meds and pepcid is called for.
Please call the vet right away, let him know what you are seeing and advocate for more time on the full 2x/day dose of dex. Even though you will be bringing Tank to the neurologist at Blue Pearl, Tank should be back on the full dose until you have the appointment. Only the full dose of the steroid works on spinal cord inflammation. Taper doses do not.
Tank may need to be taken out to potty more often. Although dex is not know for causing more frequent urination the way pred is, more frequent potty brakes may still be needed. If when you take Tank to his potty spot, he can sniff and then release urine he has bladder control.
Good news that Tank has finally pooped! |
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Jodi & Tank
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MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jul 1, 2023 15:45:36 GMT -7
Thank you, Romy! Yes, I will call my vet Monday and advocate for more time on the full 2x/day dose of Dex and I would rather do this than go to San Antonio for either Blue Pearl or Mission Vet Specialty. But if they will not or prefer to refer me then I will go to S.A.
I do remember last time he had to potty quite often when he was on Dex. And yes, he will sniff and potty so that's good too.
I have just enough Dex to get through the weekend. Will call my vet for more Dex and another phone consultation first thing Monday morning.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 1, 2023 16:27:45 GMT -7
Jodi, thanks to you, it is known quickly that not all swelling is gone. A 4-day course was rather short and really often times brief courses do not have enough time to work on the inflammation.
To be clear, so we can track the days on the anti-inflammatory level dose....... Today, did you resume giving 0.75mgs twice a day? along with pain meds:
Gabapentin 50 mg 3x/day ?
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day ?
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/day ?
Hopefully you will be able to strongly advocate a continuation Rx of Dex 0.75mgs 2x/day for more like a 7-day course.
Tank should definitely not be left without Dex working on swelling until a neuro appt opens up.
The Neuro appt would be more of a consult for a local vet who is not confident in their knowledge of treating IVDD. At minimum you need a confident vet to supervise all taperings of Dex. And should pain still be revealed on a taper, another course. So often it takes in a range of 7-30 days excluding taper days.
However, fingers crossed that there even might be a possibility with
6/26: 4-day course
7/1 your: +2-day course this weekend AND if local vet will give you
7/3: +5-day course, that taper might just show all swelling is gone with 11 days
up at the anti-inflammatory level.
Please do keep us posted on how Tank is doing. You are doing a good job despite having a reluctant vet.
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jul 1, 2023 18:08:20 GMT -7
Today 7.1.2023 I resumed the anti-inflammatory .75 mg at 4pm
Tomorrrow 7.2.2023 I will give 2 doses of the ▲Dex.
Today 7.1.2023, I resumed pain meds at 4pm meds:
Gabapentin 100mg 4pm
Methocarbamol 125 mg4pm
traMADol 16.6 mg 4pm
Tomorrow (beginning at 12:00 a.m. 7.2.2023) I will resume the 8 hour dosing for pain:
Gabapentin 50mg 3x/day
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/day
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
13.8 lbs 7 y.o.
Started crate rest 6/25
back legs wobbly as of 6/25
Dex as of 6/26: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days; 6/30 a test taper for: √7/1 pain / _neuro
as of 7/2 : 0.75mgs 2x/day for 1 day; then obtain vet refill extension
Gabapentin 50 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/dayresumed upon pain 7/1
Pepcid AC (famotdine) 5mgs 2x/day for duration of Dex]
Thank you so much for the guidance and input. I am reading and re-reading and learning so much and feel so much more hopeful that where were were last a week ago.
Tank is better this evening and is restless, barking/yipping and I can tell it's a bored let me out kind of yip. All this time he has been pretty calm/chill and resting.
Happy Independence Day to everyone!
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jul 2, 2023 6:31:01 GMT -7
Glad to hear Tank is doing better. Learning all you can about IVDD will help you understand what's happening to him and how to help him heal. Happy July 4 to you too!
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jul 3, 2023 5:58:50 GMT -7
Saturday 7.1.2023 was taper day so he only got 1x dose (morning dose was skipped)
Does Saturday still count? I'm asking for another 5 day course when I call the DVM.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 3, 2023 15:43:53 GMT -7
No, taper days do not count. Were you able to reach the DVM today?
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jul 4, 2023 12:15:20 GMT -7
My DVM gave me 28 more Dex tablets, with instructions to take twice daily until my first consultation with the specialist.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
13.8 lbs 7 y.o.
Started crate rest 6/25
back legs wobbly as of 6/25
Dex as of 6/26: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days; 6/30 a test taper for: √7/1 pain / _neuro
as of 7/3: 0.75mgs 2x/day for ? days; then test taper for: _Pain / _ Neuro
Gabapentin 50 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/dayresumed upon pain 7/1
Pepcid AC (famotdine) 5mgs 2x/day for duration of Dex]
They have entered a referral and I am supposed to be contacted.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 4, 2023 13:00:25 GMT -7
I am glad that Tank is now on the full dose of pred. Hopefully, the specialist's office will contact you soon.
The vet may want to try another taper after 7 days on the full dose.
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jul 9, 2023 14:44:35 GMT -7
7.9.2023 - Today--Sunday-- is Day 8 of the Dex since the last taper day. Should I call the vet and ask about another taper?
Earlier this week, I received a call from the selected specialist vet clinic in San Antonio, Mission Vet Specialty & Emergency Clinic, but basically it was just to touch base and say they got the referral and someone will be contacting me to schedule an appointment, and said they were booking for end of July/first of August.
Tank is doing well. He is drinking alot of water, and urinating frequently. He has wet the crate 2-3 times when I have had to leave him but I honestly think it's when he hears the garage door open and he starts barking and gets excited and can't hold it. Those training pads you told me about have been life savers! Thank you for that tip.
On another note, I have noticed [date 1st noticed?] his front leg will buckle from time to time, and his back legs wobble/cross.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 9, 2023 16:53:55 GMT -7
Jodi, by all rights the date of the taper information is traditionally on the bottle. It is only the taper that reveals if all painful inflammation is gone around the spinal cord.
All vets must guess when Rxing any anti-inflammatory drug. Often that guess will be for a 7-day or maybe a 14-day course.
We need your help to aid us in what is going on with Tank
There would be no need to call vet re a dex taper if there are signs of new/increases pain or neuro diminishment. Cause then you'd know the swelling must not be gone. Instead you'd be calling the vet ASAP to alert the vet to increased neuro damage now in the front legs.
Either Dex would not have been used long enough at the anti-inflammatory level. That can't be cause as Dex has not begun the taper.
OR Tank has done too much movement of the spine causing damage to the early healing disc. This in turns can cause damage to the spinal cord nerves. The "cause" might be not strict enough crate rest, dog is too rambunctious in the recovery suite, too much walking at potty time.
1. Tell us your thoughts about now why all four legs are now being reported neurologically affected.
2. What date did you notice front leg buckle? Is this a new diminishement or an increase of it?
3. What date did you notice back legs wobbly/cross? Is this an increase in the neuro diminishment or about the same as on disc relapse of 6/25 when you reported wobbly back legs.
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Jodi & Tank
New Member
MALE- Dachshund . -2023 inflammatory disease of muscle weakness
Posts: 34
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Post by Jodi & Tank on Jul 9, 2023 18:29:38 GMT -7
The Dex prescription simply says 2X day until seen by specialist.
The front leg buckle has been noticed [6/30] for at least 10 days. It is an ▲[front leg buckle] increase from 6.25.23
The wobbly leg cross has been noticed for at least 4 weeks.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
13.8 lbs 7 y.o.
Started crate rest 6/25
back legs wobbly, frnt leg buckles as of 6/25
Dex as of 6/26: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days; 6/30 a test taper for: √7/1 pain / √6/30 frnt leg buckles neuro
as of 7/3: 0.75mgs 2x/day til neuro appt; then test taper for: _Pain / ▲7/9 frnt leg buckles Neuro
Gabapentin 50 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
Methocarbamol 125 mg 3x/day resumed upon pain 7/1
traMADol 16.6 mg 3x/dayresumed upon pain 7/1
Pepcid AC (famotdine) 5mgs 2x/day for duration of Dex]
His crate rest has been strict, although I will say that my husband is not as strict as I am, and has let Tank walk more than 6 ft for potty time. This has happened at least 2 times, despite my protest, and it happens when I am not here. I read this post to hubby to try and get into his brain that strict is strict.
The only rambunctiousness I have seen is Tank is getting restless during the waking hours and wants someone in the room with him at all times, or he will yip.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 10, 2023 13:35:56 GMT -7
Jodi, when you have the neuro appt, be sure to relate organized and accurate info including dates. The detail matters! Make a list before you go, to have the facts handy. Otherwise the neuro may receive the wrong impression whether conservative treatment is working or had been compromised from working by too much movement allowed for the early healing disc (not complying with STRICT rest). The details you give will help the Neuro assess if a surgery or continuing on with conservative treatment is a consideration.
It is not too late for everyone to get on board to provide Tank every opportunity possible to heal under conservative treatment. It is clear (with events you've provided with their dates) what happens when too much movement takes place.
At some point, it would be a good idea to start under direction of a vet tapering Dex to see if all swelling around the cord is actually gone now.
--- Unfortunately it appears about 7/9ish? too much potty time walking caused an increase in front leg buckling. Both the front leg nerves damage CAN heal with time.
--- What you want to know is whether the spinal cord tissue inflammation has healed with the use of Dex. The taper will tell the answer.
• Started crate rest 6/25 due to a relapse of the disc of too much movement
• back legs wobbly, frnt leg buckle as of 6/25
• Dex as of 6/26: 0.75mgs 2x/day for 4 days; 6/30 a test taper for: √7/1 pain / √6/30 frnt leg buckles neuro
as of 7/3: 0.75mgs 2x/day til neuro appt; then test taper for: _pain / ▲7/9 frnt leg buckles neuro
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