Jeannie's Duncan 3/10 Surgery4-6wk-French Bulldog; GRAD 4/21

Welcome to Dodgerslist, Jeannie. So glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you. Know more about us and how we team up with veterinarians:
dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/

Disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions? Re-think things:
dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/hope-quality-life/

When you say that Duncan is "more anxious to move today", do you still feel that there is any reluctance at all to move?  Pain hinders healing so have no patient with it.  Should you feel that there is any pain at all, don't hesitate to contact the vet and advise of the sign(s) of pain that you're seeing so that Duncan's meds can be adjusted.  Should there be any sign of pain, it would not be time to taper off of Prednisone.

Neuropathic pain is not common but is something you should be aware of. This kind of pain is abnormal, phantom pain sensations with severe spinal cord damage. Signs are obsessive licking of paw, leg, genitals, tail. Escalates to biting, life-threatening chewing off parts. Immediately put on an e-collar (or lengthwise folded towel around neck and duct taped closed) to prevent access to lower body. Contact vet immediately for Gabapentin or stronger Lyrica (pregabalin) for neuropathic pain. More info: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/10/neuropathy/?highlight=neuropathic

It's very important for Duncan to be on a stomach protector for the duration of time he's on Prednisone.  PEPCID AC: Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer,then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
Doxie weight dogs: 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) every 12 hours. NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html
i.ibb.co/DCN9611/91x-Aj-s00z-L-SY355.jpg

Usually vets will start physical therapy or at least mild exercises following surgery.  Did the vet say that no exercises should be done for a certain period of time or there just wasn't mention of it?  If  no mention of it, do speak to the vet about when physical therapy can be started.  Here's our page on post-op exercises that can be done at home.  Do run them by the surgeon to get approval before starting.
dodgerslist.com/2020/05/27/surgery-dog-pt

If there is great pain or severe neuro diminishment, acupuncture or laser light therapy can be be started right away as an adjunct to pain meds and to kick start nerve cell energy production. Options: Acupuncture vet who does home visits to avoid back moving during transports. For transport to necessary visits, pad out the recovery suite extra space with a rolled up towel/blanket to prevent body shifts during braking or cornering.
CAUTIONS: ~~ Laser light therapy is contra-indicated with tumors which are detected via x-ray.
~~ Why Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/

Also water therapy can be performed after the stitches/sutures are removed. Some of these exercises can be done right in the bathtub. Many members have found underwater treadmills to be very helpful in regaining their dogs' use of their legs. Please check with the surgeon before starting any of these.
dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/

The best way to avoid UTIs and keep the bladder healthy is to learn to express Duncan's bladder.  
Review video then get a hands-on-top-of-your-hands expressing lesson from your vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm

There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks, months or even a year or longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag!  Where is Duncan in this list?
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)

2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk.

3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test.

Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine.

4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.

5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws.

6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.


Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn.

At the MAIN WEBSITE, use the orange SEARCH bar feature to easily access the treasure trove of more IVDD information. You will feel so very empowered to help your dog! dodgerslist.com/

Duncan is at the very early stage of his healing, only four days post surgery.  IVDD healing can be very, very slow.  Stay strong, stay positive and never given up hope!  Healing prayers for Duncan.

Jeannie, sorry to hear expressing is a problem.  Just so we have the correct picture would you fill us in.  I think the questions asked and the info accompanying will help you understand why I'm very concerned about this constant release of urine with possible condition of no bladder control.  Something is just not  right. Your answers will help our understanding of Duncan's neuro function
 (bladder control or lack of it).

Upon discharge 3/10 did the surgeon say Duncan had bladder control?  
Upon Discharge did the surgeon say Duncan had the ability to perceive deep pain sensation (DPS)?

What date did you go back to see the surgeon?
On that date did the surgeon say Duncan had DPS plus bladder control?

OVERFLOWING bladder
Filling many belly bands would not be a "good thing" for Duncan IF, iF, if he does not have bladder control!  That type of releasing urine is called "OVERFLOWING."  An overflowing bladder has had urine released by reflexes when bladder is overfilled 
    Two dangers with overflowing
      1) continuous over stretching of the bladder to fill point, can cause damage to the bladder muscles.  Then when nerves repair, the bladder may not work properly
      2) Reflexes can't get all the urine out, just some of it overflows.  The remainder of the urine can quickly cause a urinary tract infection.
      Did the surgeon comment on the possiblity (if Duncan does not have bladder control), that he has a UTI?

PEEING
When a dog has bladder control, the brain directs the bladder to release urine when the dog knows he is in an appropriate spot. Peeing where he sleeps to dogs is not appropriate.

How often are you trying to express the bladder?  While on prednisone that might be every 2-3 hours expecially when you are trying to learn this new skill.
    Have you gone back to your own general DVM vet to get a hands on expressing lesson?
    Is the surgeon the same person as your general DVM vet? 
    Does the surgeon have addition letters after her name, DVM.  Such as ACVIM or ACVS?

What is the current prednisone taper dose in mgs and times per day given?

Finally, have you taken Duncan outdoors to get proof positive if he has bladder control----The sniff and Pee test?

When you know Duncan should/would have to pee, do the test
    The "sniff and pee test" is the only way for humans to determine whether bladder control exists. Carry the dog outdoors, set him down on an old pee spot for a sniff. Make sure that neither the sling nor your hands are on the stomach region as this could put pressure on the bladder. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. Until you are certain that full voiding is always occurring, continue to do a quick express check after dog pees. Tell us what you observe.

NOTE: When the bladder is full, it fills the entire area of the abdomen; therefore, any pressure can cause the bladder to release urine for dogs who do not yet have bladder control. It might be necessary to maintain the pressure for a little longer than you anticipated. The bladder shrinks as it empties, making it more likely to escape your grasp. Feel around for it once more. A small bladder can move back toward the pelvic region. Continue pressing the bladder until it feels so flat, that one hand can almost touch the fingers of the other hand.

Jeannie, did you know you can get an email alert when there are new posts waiting for you to read?

Thanks for replying. The surgeon is Jennifer Kelsey, specialist DVM, practice limited to surgery. She made no UTI comments. She is not my regular vet. She is at vca asec and emergency vet near me.

The prednisone is 3 days am and pm, 3 days am only, 3 days every other day. He is drinking less than at the beginning. After my previous reply I took him out to a spot where he usually pees. After a few minutes I picked him up and there was a little pee there. Hope this is a little better news
Thanks again

Duncan had a hemilaminectomy on the left side of the L1-L2 vertebrae. A large amount of disc material was removed according g to the surgeon’s notes. I just took him out to pee. He peed a little then I expressed a little more. I’m going to try again in an hour. He also pooped outside while he was drinking
Thank you

Duncan is releasing urine. Not peeing. I’m taking him out every few hours, most of the time his belly band is wet. I’m trying to beat him to it but not having much luck. Thanks

Duncan actually passed the pee test just now. Thank god. Next visit is [3/24] Friday. I’ve been massaging and tickling his feet. Hoping for good news on Friday. Thanks for everything

I took him to a regular pee spot in the garage because of the rain and brought a used diaper there as well. I set him down and when I picked him up the spot was wet. I will keep doing this and will elevate his hind end to verify. Thank you 

I just took Duncan out and followed your procedure. He sniffed and I gently raised his butt. He actually peed some and not on me Thrilling. Thanks again

I try to position his rear legs and he seems to be able to support himself on bent legs for a few seconds. I’m going to continue to follow your instructions. You’re the best. Thanks again

Hello and thanks so much in advance. Duncan went back for a recheck this morning. The doc was very happy with his progress.

He’s standing for a few seconds and can push himself up if his feet are in the right place. We are still taking him out all the time and also expressing some.

We will start physical therapy although I’m not sure what they can do that I cannot. I’ve learned so much on this site and in this forum. Thanks again

Hello again. It’s been a little over two weeks and Duncan is slowly improving.

His bladder control is not. He seems to have gone backwards but I think it’s because he can move around so much more. He wiggles out of his diaper so it’s much more obvious.

I have been doing physical therapy at home. Do you recommend I take him to a dog physical therapy place? He hasn’t eaten his food for the last two days. I find this very surprising. I think I will call his regular vet. What do you think?
Thanks
Jeannie and Duncan

So sorry I have been MIA. Duncan is slowly recovering. And I mean slowly. He saw the surgeon [ 4/7] this morning and got a good report. He also started PT and acupuncture twice a week and will start hydrotherapy in a week or two.

Unfortunately he has a uti that is staph. We are currently waiting on a test to determine what strain and will start some awful antibiotic for that strain. That should be this week. We are struggling with the diapers lol. He won’t keep them on. Out latest solution is suspenders but they don’t work that great lolol. Hopefully this will be a temporary problem. Thanks for your help 

Thank you for your help. Duncan is eating normally, maybe a little slower actually. He’s standing for longer periods. He’s moving around his pen much easier. He’s peeing occasionally when he smells my other dogs pee but not regularly. We are doing our home pt stuff from the physical therapist. I take him every 2-3 hours for a water/pee break. He usually is thirsty and I express him then as well. I will check out those diaper things for sure. Thanks for the recommendations