PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 20, 2023 18:39:36 GMT -7
Jackie, it is possible something is pressing on the nerve leading out to his leg or some damage at the paw level. Unless you observe some issue of pain at the paw, like from a thorn, a cut, etc., then assume it may be disc involved. Are you speaking about left front or left rear leg flamingo like?It is prudent to crate him at once with any suspicion of a disc issue to prevent a worsening of that disc. Get to a vet for an exam should the diagnosis call for getting on an anti-inflammatory ASAP, pain meds, and Pepcid AC. SIGNS OF PAIN with a disc episode: ⚙︎ shivering-trembling ⚙︎ yelping when picked up or moved ⚙︎ tight tense tummy ⚙︎ arched back, ears pinned bac ⚙︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ⚙︎ slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shift positions ⚙︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves ➕if a neck disc: ◻︎ head held high/ nose to the ground ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg up flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
STRICT rest with a suspicion of a disc episode is much stricter than for a post-op dog. You are trying to prevent worse symptoms than that of pain moving to damage the nerves. **
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Aug 21, 2023 14:55:59 GMT -7
[Possible? disc episode as of 8/14/23?] Thanks so much. We went to PT today and the vet examined him. She thinks he has some swelling higher up on his spine. [MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit [MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 36 lbs 3 y.o. Possible? disc episode as of 8/14/23? 8/24 hesitant to lift left back leg Rimadyl as of 8/21: 75mg 1x/day for 10 days ; 8/31 STOP (re: muscle soreness from overdoing) Gabapentin 100 mg 2x/day.] They did laser on his back and told us to follow the crate rest protocol and see how he does. It is likely a result of pushing himself too much with his dog cousin. I am hoping with some rest, we can prevent it from getting worse and begin working on recovery again. Thanks for the support!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 21, 2023 15:59:46 GMT -7
Jackie, is it the left or right back leg? The question is what is the thought that caused the swelling? Is it muscle inflammation from overdoing things? Or is it inflammation around the spinal cord tissue caused by a new bulge or crack in the exterior of the disc? When the vertebrae move, they push on discs. A weak disc, same one as surgery or a different new disc, then begins to bulge.
I hope it is mearly associated with overdoing muscles. That should quickly get better without meds just with the act of resting a few days.
If it is a disc issue affecting the peripheral spinal nerves as they exit the main spinal cord going out to a limb, it takes an anti-inflammatory to get the painful cord swelling down in a range of 7- 30 days. It is the STRICT rest of 8 weeks that allows the body to heal the bulging or cracks in the exterior of the disc. This issue would warrant touching bases with your neuro to get a good diagnosis from a boarded surgeon.
MONITORING NEURO FUNCTIONS As damage to the spinal cord increases, there can be a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions if excessive back/neck movement for example. 1. 8/14 Pain with initial tear of disc and ensuing swelling 2. Wobbly walking legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle under (left? or right?). Dog is slow to correct or can't right the paw(s) at all 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment.
Please keep us posted. Fingers crossed it's the muscles for a quick recovery in a matter of a few days.
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Aug 21, 2023 18:12:45 GMT -7
The thought is that it is muscle inflammation caused by all the activity he had last week with other dogs.
His left back leg is the one he has been picking up.
Today he was actually a bit better ([8/21]only did the flamingo leg once) after resting this weekend. But he was only standing and not trying to walk like he did the week prior. The vet prescribed an[name of?] anti-inflammatory and crate rest. I am going to give him a few days and see if anything changes and if he doesn’t appear to be a bit better, I will schedule an appointment with the neurosurgeon. I will continue with the crate rest for the full duration unless the neurosurgeon ends up telling me otherwise.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 22, 2023 13:54:49 GMT -7
I am happy to hear that, at this point, the vet thinks the problem is caused by too much activity. If that is the case, a few days of rest should be sufficient.
Starting crate rest is wise, as the inflammation may be caused by a disc issue. In which case, limited movement is essential.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 22, 2023 15:55:15 GMT -7
Jackie good to hear some relief from pain this soon.
What is the name of the anti-inflammatory, dose in mgs, times per day and for how many days?
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Aug 22, 2023 17:00:02 GMT -7
Rimadyl 75mg once a day for 10 days and Gabapentin 100 mg twice a day for same amount of time.
When you press on his spine he doesn’t react, so that seems to be a good indication of the pain not originating there. He is eating normally, happy, and playful with his stuff animals in his crate. He has a laser appointment Thursday so they are [8/24] going reassess how is doing…
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Aug 23, 2023 11:08:30 GMT -7
Hi All, So I came across this website today: youdidwhatwithyourweiner.com/owning-an-active-ivdd-dog-there-will-be-setbacks/In looking at the chart that shows the symptoms of an IVDD injury vs. a flare-up, Auggie is definitely exhibiting the signs of a flare-up up, so I am glad we got him on meds and put him on crate rest. One thing I noticed is that you can feel his pulse to the left of his spine, toward the top of where his surgery scar is. This makes me think that he is experiencing inflammation there. I emailed his neurosurgeon today, explaining the symptoms and asking her what she thinks. The problem is that although he loves his physical therapist and the vet there, he HATES the facility where the neurosurgeon is located as he has a lot of emotional trauma from his injury. He was not a good patient for the surgeon (he would not let anyone touch him before or after his surgery), and I am worried that not only would they be unable to perform a physical exam, but he would also get agitated and potentially exacerbate his condition. So I asked the neurosurgeon if we could do a Facetime and inquired whether she thinks the current treatment plan is appropriate - I am waiting to hear back. I am still considering carrying him to PT tomorrow as I think the laser would be helpful for the inflammation, and they can re-examine him without him getting so upset. Thoughts? I will keep you posted as to what the neurosurgeon says. Thanks!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 23, 2023 11:26:03 GMT -7
Jackie, IVDD is (correction) NOT caused by an injury. IVDD is a disease of prematurely aging discs. "Flare-up" seems to be the current term used for a disc episode. This term makes it sound to my ears like maybe not such a serious issue that it really, really is.Disc episode is when the exterior of the disc is disrupted. It could be the same disc, a different disc.The disruption of the exterior means that disc can bulge out of shape as the vertebrae move. Or it could develop into something more serious when there is a lack of crate rest. Should disc material escape and invade into the spinal cord's canal, it could develop into more than just pain. It could damage the nerves to cause leg weakness, loss of bladder control, etc. i.postimg.cc/VvytgLLC/Disc-Problems-Spine-Universe250x400.jpgIF this should be a disc episode for Milo, then doing whatever you can to maintain limited movement of the back/neck is the KEY element of conservative treatment --- Avoid transport to vet, whenever things can be handled over the phone. Vet's who know IVDD, know the importance of home rest. --- Hire a mobile vet to come to your home if you insist on laser. The reason pain meds are Rx'd is because they are given at home, not requiring any transports, allowing that STRICT rest to be maintained.
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Aug 23, 2023 16:44:20 GMT -7
Ok thank you. This is very helpful. We won’t go to PT tomorrow. We do have an at home vet but not sure about her level of expertise with IVDD. I am going to stick to the treatment protocol and see how he is after 10 days. I will let you know if the neurosurgeon who did his surgery provides any additional information. I can already tell that the anti-inflammatory is helping a lot so I am feeling like we are on the right track! Thank you!
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Nov 19, 2023 18:23:21 GMT -7
Hi! So we are 9 months in from Auggie’s injury [surgery for disc episode on 2/9/2023.]
Just wanted to share the good news that he is walking a lot! He just advanced to the next level of PT. He is now working on balancing and stepping over poles to pick up his feet. His therapists are thrilled and so are we. He had a 50-50 chance of walking again. I honestly thought at different points that it might never happen but I am so glad it did!
We still keep a diaper on him because he pees when he gets excited. But he is regularly begging to go outside to pee and poop and he hasn’t had a poop in his crate in the morning in a long time. Sometimes he gets excited and over does it. So we are tuned in and know when he is sore or in pain and scale back the activity. We are in a great routine though, and are so pleased with where he is at. Even if he doesn’t recover any further, we are ok with it. We are so proud of him and feel very lucky that he has made such great progress! We are so grateful for the support of Dodger’s List. We truly could not have done this without you all. Thank you so much! We will continue to keep you updated! <3
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 20, 2023 9:39:22 GMT -7
Jackie, what good news on how well he is walking!!!! Thank you for sharing that important news. You are doing such a good job of helping Auggie return to the best gait he is able to achieve.
Since we last heard from you on Aug 23, did the vet or neuro diagnose reluctance to lift left back leg: --- as a disc episode on either the same surgical disc or a new disc ? --- as likely muscle soreness from over exercising?
Tell us more about the protocol if it was suspioned to be a disc episode of same surgery disc or a different disc: -- How many weeks of strict rest was prescribed in addition to the 8/21 Rx of Rimadyl 75mgs 1x/day + gabapentin 100mgs 2x/day?
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Nov 20, 2023 19:36:27 GMT -7
Yes, we are so pleased. We didn’t really get a clear answer as to whether it was a new disc issue or not as we went to his regular vet, not the surgeon. Because Auggie hates the vet so much, he is a difficult patient to diagnose. I emailed the surgeon though and she recommended crate rest and meds (she prescribed 10 days of carprofen). She said to come in if he doesn’t improve. His condition was definitely more than just over extending himself but with rest for 2 weeks followed by laser treatment at PT, he made a full recovery. It’s a reminder to us that he will always be at risk for another injury so we just need to be on guard and ensure he isn’t playing to hard and hurting himself. But we are very happy with where he is at and will continue to do PT to help him improve his balance, coordination, and strength,
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Post by Jackie & Auggie on Nov 27, 2023 15:46:44 GMT -7
Sharing this story that Auggie’s physical therapist made about his recovery journey. It’s been 9 months since Auggie became paralyzed and had IVDD surgery. There were times that we doubted he would walk again and we are pleased to say that he is now walking and even running at time. He still is working on his strength and coordination but we feel very fortunate that he is where he is, especially since the surgeon gave him a 50% chance of walking again. We couldn’t have gotten through it without the support of Dodger’s List and wonderful pet owners who have gone through the same thing. Life is certainly different than it once was but we have adapted to the new normal and live our happy smiley boy no matter what his condition is like. Keep your hope alive! [ Instagram video of Augie's progression of nerve healing and eventually walking:]www.instagram.com/reel/C0IX61Ds9st/?igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 28, 2023 8:30:12 GMT -7
Thank you so much for sharing this update with us, Jackie. It's so good to see how well Auggie is doing. And sharing this reel will really help others to know that life isn't over when IVDD strikes. Giving encouragement to others going through this difficult journey is so very important. Thank you!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,884
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 18, 2024 20:32:07 GMT -7
Jackie, Auggie has a new thread over on the Conservative Board. Here is the link to add to your bookmarks: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/9254/Your post and my answer is waiting for you on Augie's new thread.
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