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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 12, 2022 19:24:49 GMT -7
[Original subject line: New member questions] Hi, My name is Elaine and my dachshund's name is Gracie. She is 6 1/2 year old long-hair tri-color, weighs 17.4 pounds and has been healthy up until now. On Saturday, Jan 8th we had an ice storm with freezing temps here (50 mile NW of Chicago) and she had a hard time walking outside as we all did (she is on a leash). Sunday morning, Jan 9th, it looked like she was having difficulty navigating the carpeted steps. I carried her and gave her 1/4 tab of rimadyl 75mg with food just in case she had pulled a muscle or something. I carried her on all steps and we made sure she did no jumping. On Monday Jan 10th she seemed a little better. I continued the rimadyl every 12 hours and contacted my vet. I crated her as a precaution, we carried her outside and did not let her walk about. On Tuesday Jan 11, she was definitely getting wobbly in her back end and we brought her into the vet. She can stand but has weakness in her back end and is very wobbly. Her right foot will flip under. She does have pain sensation and good muscle tone. She d oes not appear to be in any pain. She is still alert, has a good appetite and is whining to go outside to go to the bathroom. The vet did a thorough neuro exam and put her on the following meds: Stop the Rimadyl immediately (she had a total of 3 doses with a full meal each time). Pepcid AC 10 mg 1/2 tab twice a day start immediately, Tramadol 50 mg 1/2-1 tab every 8-12 hours with food (currently giving 1 tab to start), Prednisolone as of 1/11??? 5mg sliding scale.Currently on 5mg every 12 hours with food to start for 7 days, then cut to 1/2 tab twice a day for 7 days, then 1/2 tab daily for 7 days then 1/2 tab every other day for 7 days. Gave her one dose of each med on Tuesday Jan 11th. Started full dosing today, Jan 12th. No problems with eating or vomiting but we are watching closely. [MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
17.4 lbs 6.5 y.o
Rimadyl as of 1/9 for 2 days SToPPED 1/11
no 4-7 days washout before start Pred, no double GI protection
prednisolone as of date 1/11: 5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then 1/18 a test taper for: _pain / _neuro
traMADol 25 mgs 2x/day
Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day
2nd protector for no 4-7 day washout: sucralfate: marvistavet.com/sucralfate.pml ] Gracie is receiving laser treatments 3 days/week. Her first treatment was Jan 11th. Gracie is crated 24/7 and we are following the Dodgerslist care regimen. Our vet is a general DVM and has cared for our doxies for 13 years. I am trying to get an appointment with a neurologist but it is very difficult to do so in our area right now. I will keep trying. She had one accident in her cage, but I really believe it was us not realizing she was asking to go out and the fact that she is drinking a lot of water due to the Prednisolone. She usually rings a bell so we are working out new signals. After that, she whined and we took her outside to pee and poop. I use a winter scarf to support her back end and we have a harness on her with a 6 foot lead. She was able to squat and pee and squat to poop with support. She usually take a while to go and is always interested in her surroundings, so we are challenged with limiting her steps (we are doing our best and will continue to work on that). She can still wobbly walk but falls. She can wag her tail. I understand this is a long road and we are in for whatever she needs. We are retired and she is very loved. She is not left alone and her crate is the kitchen with us. ****My big question right now is if we continue to pursue conservative treatment have we given up on the opportunity for surgery if it does not work?? Are we missing anything in our care plan? Thank you very much. Your suggestions are very appreciated. Elaine
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 12, 2022 21:13:31 GMT -7
Elaine, welcome to the Dodgerslist IVDD Care and Support Forum! We are glad you've joined us all. IVDD is all about healing the disc with conservative treatment. A damaged disc can impact nerve function.
-- Calm your mind about nerve healing, know the facts: dodgerslist.com/2021/02/06/nerve-healing-after-disc-episode/
-- Calm your fears: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivdd Check with vet since there was no 4-7 days of washout from Rimadyl before the start of Pred in two days, about a 2nd GI protector on board: Sucralfate. That is the typical when deemed an emergency to start pred and dispense with a full washout from Rimadyl: use double protection for double jeopardy- both Pepcid AC and sucralfate.
HOW to a MONITOR FOR NERVE DAMAGE
As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order.
1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. 1/11 Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. 1/11 Right rear Paw knuckles under
5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand
6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors.
8. Tail wagging with joy is lost
9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment.
If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative treatment.
Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can also be a good outcome. However, each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS.
A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery:
dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative/
At this point in time with what you report about Gracie, in general, surgeons would not want to operate, choosing the least invasive and less risky conservative treatment. As your vet says monitor and take action to alert a vet if neuro functions diminish past no longer doing the happy tail wag (anyone can correctly id happy wags, not the case with deep pain sensation. Trust only a specialist about the hard to correctly identify deep pain sensation ability.
Right now the single most important care you can give is the 100% STRICT rest and limited movement of the back. This is to allow the disc to heal. To avoid more damage to the disc which could severely damage spinal cord functions to the point of loosing deep pain sensation.
At potty time I would try an ex-pen in the snow or even create a snow bank fence of about 6 foot diameter. This way Gracie will know there's not going to be any sniff testing going on. Just a few minimal footsteps to take care of business
So if there is a mobile vet to come to your house for laser that would eliminate a risky trip in to the vet where too much movement is always a potential for the early healing disc.
See what you can do to make it so Gracie can't fall...sling use. Recovery suite should only be large enough to easily turn around in and when lying down to fully stretch out the legs. IF suite has too much space, pad out extra with rolled up towel/blanket. Lots of tips and ideas here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/
About traMADol: which are you promptly giving every 8 hrs or 12 hrs?
Do you have a med chart?
A medication chart is useful to see patterns, have dates and specific facts handy as you discuss things with the vet. D/l a sample and a blank form to use with your dog's meds dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/med-chart-printable.pdf
Elaine, it seems you guys really have things very much under control! Keep up the good work. Got fingers crossed there will be no increased neuo diminishment. This would allow Gracie to go forward with the 8 weeks of getting the disc to heal. With time her current leg function can self-repair!
Set up an email alert so you know when you get a reply. Look forward to your next update and handling laser treatments at home, how often you give traMADol and if sucralfate can be added as double protection. |
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 13, 2022 7:17:54 GMT -7
Thank you for your reply, Paula. We are giving Gracie the Tramadol 730 am and 5pm with her meals. I am a retired nurse and my husband a retired pharmacist. Old habits never die so we started a log immediately to keep track of everything.
Last night she seemed a little more in control of her back end when we took her out to go potty. This morning, after being in a smaller crate and sleeping quietly all night her back end seems weaker. Is this from her being so still all night?
I have an ex-pen on order that should come today or tomorrow. She did squat and pee and her cage was dry all night.
We go in for another laser treatment this afternoon. Unfortunately there are no mobile services (we are fairly rural here) but the hospital is close by and we take a straight country road to get there.
I tried to check mark my thread and apply notifications but I am not having any luck with the check mark. Anywhere I touch it opens the thread. Can you help me with that? I think I figured out the notifications. Thank you.
Thanks again.
Edit:
I missed a question. Gracie received one dose of prednisolone at the vet on 1/11 and started on twice/day on the 12th.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 13, 2022 9:33:57 GMT -7
Elaine, after a night of sleep, the muscles can be a bit stiff. Once Gracie is moving such as a some few footsteps at potty time, repositioning her body in the suite, you should have a more accurate observation of any new/increased neuro function diminishment. Hope to hear you will not observe any nerve diminishment. Glad to hear traMADol 25mgs 2x/day keeps pain under control while prednisone works on resolving all painfully inflamed tissue around the cord in the course of 7-30 days. Your vet Rx'd prednisolone for a 7-day course. It is all guess work for a vet. The prudent thing is try a course, see if pred has done its work or not. If not, then Rx another course. Pred taper days are not a strong enough dose to work on swelling so do not count in the usual 7-30 days. We track how many days on prednisolone for reasons of the 7-30 day count. It appears then that the first taper of prednisone is either on 1/18 or 1/19. What date do you have for the pred taper to begin?You are likely aware that pred must be tapered to signal the adrenals to resume making their own cortisol steroid hormone. For a dog during a disc episode, that pred taper is a perfect window to test for pain or any increased/new neuro diminishment. So now you know our hang up about having accurate details about the use of pred.
The full story on how pred is used for a disc episode is here: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/With any test TAPER, it is always good to have worked out in advance a "PLAN B" should pain re-surface at night or on the weekend when your vet is not open. Could be an emergency RX script you could fill at local 24 hr pharmacy or some extra pills at home til the vet opens again. An ER visit is very expensive, a "Plan B" is free! RULE OF THUMB during a prednisone taper test Pain= another course of PRED + all pain meds, GI protectors back on board.
No Pain= go to TAPER conclusion...finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal.What is your vet's call re: preference on the pred taper to allow you an accurate and quick assessment about any hint of pain surfacing? -- to full stop pain med, traMADol? -- to back off of traMADol in mgs or frequency? All of life is risk management. Do the same during a disc episode weigh risk vs. benefit -- The benefit: Laser is a good therapy that can help with both pain and to increase cellular metabolism thus kick starting nerves to self repair. -- The risks: Stimulatory effect on existing tumors and cancer cells. Moving dog in and out of vehicle and at vet is a potential risk for too much movement for a weak still healing disc. Gracie: Mild neuro diminishment which can will self heal Pain is being managed with oral pain med IF your risk management concludes the Laser benefit overrides the potential risk to the disc that could then impact the spinal cord, make the trip as safe as possible for Gracie's disc. Use a rolled up towel or blanket to fit snuggly around Gracie's body. This will prevent Gracie's back from shifting as you brake or take a corner. |
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 13, 2022 16:53:37 GMT -7
Hi Paula, ugh this has been a hard and scary day. Gracie lost use of both back legs and couldn’t stand at all. She looked worse by the hour.
She is now [1/13] at the specialty vet undergoing an MRI and likely straight into surgery.
The neurologist said we were providing the correct care but she is definitely down. She can still feel her toes and that is key. He also said she seems very stoic. Does not easily show pain but relaxed tremendously when they medicated her.
Crossing our fingers and saying prayers for a successful surgery tonight.
Thank you for your support today. We have a long road but hoping for the best for our little Gracie tonight.
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Post by Jessica on Jan 13, 2022 17:14:24 GMT -7
Please keep us updated as you learn more. We'll be thinking of you both.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 13, 2022 17:43:30 GMT -7
Elaine, you've been on top of this from the beginning and done everything right. Sometimes this just happens.
You got Gracie into surgery immediately and gave her the best chance at a full recovery.
This situation also happened to my Nala and she did recover and walk. There's always hope.
Praying for you both. God bless.
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 13, 2022 17:47:22 GMT -7
Thank you for the encouragement and well wishes. It means a lot. ❤️
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 15, 2022 20:06:27 GMT -7
Gracie’s MRI showed 80% cord compression at T 11-12 so she went right into surgery on 1/13. She did well and on 1/14 she could still feel her toes. Whew. Her left leg was moving some and the right rear was starting to slowly wake up but remained very weak and floppy still. She is not urinating on her own and will need to be expressed. The MD feels hopeful that will resolve within a couple weeks. Her pain is controlled with oral meds and she is eating and drinking.
We picked her up today 1/15 after meeting with the neurologist for detailed instructions and hands on instruction on expressing her bladder. They supplied us with a walking harness, pads, meds, follow up instructions and contact phone numbers. They have been nothing short of wonderful.
Here are our instructions:
Crate rest for the next 4 weeks. Gabapentin 100mg every 8 hours. Codeine 15 mg every 8-12 hours as needed for pain. She is currently being dosed every 8 hours. Prednisolone 5 mg tabs 1 1/2 tabs every 24 hours until 1/16, then 1 tab every 24 hours x 3 days, then 1/2 tab every 24 hours x 3 days then d/c. Omeprazol 20mg 1/2 tab every 24 hours while on prednisolone. Diazepam 5mg 1/2 tab 30 minutes prior to expressing her bladder. Up to 3x day. Cefpodoxime 100mg 1/2 tab daily till gone
We are using a notebook to record meds, trips out, peeing and pooping.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
17.4 lbs 6.5 y.o
Rimadyl as of 1/9 for 2 days SToPPED 1/11
no 4-7 days washout before start Pred, no double GI protection
1/13 SURGERY
prednisolone post-op 1/13: 7.5mgs 1x/day; then taper 1/16
Codeine 15 mg 3x/day
gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day
diazepam 2.5 mgs as expressing aid
cefpodoximen (antibiotic) 500mgs 1x/day
omeprazole 10mg 1x/day]
When we got home I helped her squat and supported her with the harness and she did pee x1. Afterwards I still was able to express quite a bit of urine. Other than that time, she has urinated a large puddle while laying on her pad several times We are taking her out every couple hours to try and pee and I have been able to express quite a bit of urine afterwards each time. I’m trying hard to make sure her bladder is empty but I’m not 100% confident in my skill yet.
She did stop and poop when we had her out this evening. I never thought I’d be so happy to see pee and poop!
We noticed that her left leg has started motoring with increased strength tonight. Her right leg had become flaccid prior to surgery but it is also starting to wake up tonight. Thank goodness.
One day at a time. Gracie is trying hard to get well and we will do our best to give her every chance to get strong again. She’s such a good buddy. ❤️
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 16, 2022 0:46:16 GMT -7
Hooray! Gracie sounds like she's doing very well so soon after surgery.
Step by step, you can do it.
Take it one day at a time.
God bless.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 16, 2022 10:23:17 GMT -7
Elaine, so happy to read your update and how well Gracie is already doing post-op and home yesterday! PT? The benefit of surgery is with immediate removal of that offending disc material, often at-home PT can be started right away. Let us know what your surgeon wants for PT. Sometimes the PT could be the taking of footsteps/walking that happens at potty time, even walking to and from the potty place. Let us know. i.postimg.cc/cHpKVcSN/Cons-vs-surgery-chunk320.jpgEXPRESSING Yes, expressing is a new skill everyone does need some practice to perfect. In a matter of a weeks worth of expressing, you too will be proficient in learning all the shapes of the bladder as it empties, where to find it when it slips from your fingers to back in the pelvic area. More tips, video and ideas for building your expressing skill: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/---Expressing is just physics. Overcoming the resistance of the bladder neck. Diazepam can help relax those muscles. -- While learning and being on prednisone, expect to express every 2-3 hours. -- As you get good in really emptying the bladder you can extend to expressing every 3-4 hrs and then more practice to every 4-6 hrs even 8 hrs overnight. SNIFF AND PEE TEST With her legs already motoring to some degree, expect that she may very soon have full brain connection to the bladder to fully empty bladder on her own. Do give her a chance to prove she does have that brain connection to the bladder. ---Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder similar to expressing. --- See if she will sniff at an old pee spot. Then observe if she releases urine. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should continue to do a quick express check as you have been doing to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe. -- leg and tail movement during potty time can often be a reflex thing. So look for a head level sniff and then a release of urine. You both are doing an excellent job of caring for Gracie with good attention to the details and things she needs. Keep up the good work! Keeps us updated as your time permits, love to read how Gracie is doing. |
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 16, 2022 14:42:02 GMT -7
Hi Paula, Thank you for taking the time for your thoughtful replies. Gracie is not making it easy for me to feel her bladder ( she tightens up her belly) but I will keep working on it. I watched the videos and am trying the tips and tricks. Gracie is now sniffing, then deliberately squatting (with some sling support] and peeing for quite a while. We can see that she is tensing up and holding her posture more and more like she did before this episode. When she is done she either relaxes and sits or starts to try and leave the spot. She did this 3X today! We have a bit of snow on the ground, so we can see that she is going a very good amount. I’ve been trying to express her afterwards but maybe she is just empty? We’ve still had some spontaneously soaked pads. Lots and lots of urine  The neurologist did say he would like her to have PT after she recovers from the surgery but said we should start by focusing on this part of her care and then discuss therapy at her follow up. He’d like to see how she has progressed before we discuss options. He mentioned water therapy. He said we should let her walk about with both a harness on and sling support for 5-10 minutes when we take her out so I believe he is thinking of this as her early therapy. Thanks again. Mike and I both appreciate everyone’s support, and encouragement. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 16, 2022 14:56:18 GMT -7
Elaine, your report does indicate there is bladder control and even improving re: being able to more fully empty the bladder. Your doing the express check right after she finished and outdoors could be the reason for the tight belly. I found when expressing my dog outside, he was smelling and seeing outdoor stuff going on.... he had a tight tummy. Inside he was relaxed and not a tight belly. Also as a dog gains more control over their bladder they may not like you doing all that pressing and tense up.
So, for the express check after she pees, you may want to try that indoors on a pee pad. Express check until you are satisfied she is consistently doing a good job of emptying.
Excellent about the Neuro-directed PT at home. Walking to and from the potty place with support will be giving those joints needed flexing to stay lubricated and keep the muscles firing.
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 17, 2022 11:07:21 GMT -7
Good morning. Post op day 4. We woke up this morning to a really sleepy and unmotivated girl. She had wet her pad during the night (good amount) but was not anxious to walk about outside or try to pee when we took her out. She also seemed less motivated to motor, her right leg seems less active (although it is still moving and feels pain) and her abdomen seemed a bit round. She leaked a bit in the cage but it was not a full bladder release.
I was not able to express her bladder (UGH!!) and was concerned that perhaps she was overfull. I called my regular vet for some fresh eyes and expressing assistance and they had me bring her right over.
She turned into a charmer as soon as they took her from my car into the exam. They expressed a good amount of urine but said that her bladder was not overly full (whew) and the urine was normal (a bit concentrated from overnight, so we made sure she had plenty to drink when we got home). I discussed their technique tips.
The vet checked her out and said her abd was likely a bit tight because her AM pain meds had not kicked in and she was not excited to be expressed. It is relaxed now. The vet felt that all was well.
We thought maybe she had overdone it yesterday and plan to just let her rest today. She ate and drank with her usual vigor and is now sleeping in a relaxed position in her crate.
I have to say, after retiring from nursing after 40 years, it is much harder to care for a creature who can't talk than it is a vocal adult human.
One day at a time.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 17, 2022 11:35:16 GMT -7
Elaine, expressing definitely has a learning curve.
I remember being so confused and convinced that I would never get it.
However, one day it just clicked. Kind of like riding a bike.
You and Gracie are doing great!
Recovery from major spinal surgery is a marathon, take it a day at a time.
As you noticed, Gracie will need lots of rest and regular pain medication for a while. Even if she's feeling pretty good at times, those pain meds can be great, we know she needs to take it easy.
I agree, if only they could talk! Hang in there. It will get better.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 17, 2022 11:59:34 GMT -7
Elaine, it can take aprox 14 days for all of the surgical caused painful swelling to subside. If you and and your local vet are thinking signs of pain were due to 3x/day pain meds Codiene and gabapentin not giving round the clock coverage from pain, then do alert the neuro today. There can be adjustments to the pain med cocktail.
"(although it is still moving and feels pain)" Are you indicating Graciie was suffering with a pain. OR that she had the ability to feel deep pain sensation (DPS)? No need to test for DPS by the very hard toe pinch.
--- By definition if Gracie has bladder control or showing she can move her back legs, she would have to have DPS. Thus no need to give the DPS test.
--- Most general vets do not have the practice nor training to correctly identify DPS and owners as well.
Right you are, if only dogs could speak English! They only speak canine sounds and show us their body language for us to go on.
Keep up the good work of attention to detail and seeking help when things don't seem right.
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 20, 2022 12:36:22 GMT -7
Hi, well today we are one week post op and it has been a really rocky week. Hopefully we are on the upswing.
After I posted my update on 1/17 Gracie seemed to quickly become weaker and weaker in her back end to the point where she could not stand or motor at all.
Our neurologist wanted us to bring her in ASAP which we did. Once again, they were all wonderful.
Gracie still had feeling in her toes but was definitely very weak. Neither leg motored and she could not stand at all.
The plan was to keep her, increase her prednisolone back to 11/2 tabs (1/17 she dropped to 1 tab) and possibly do another MRI if needed. Possible issues were more disc material released into the canal at the operative site, spinal embolism, a new disk rupture or simply over fatigued.
The next morning she showed improvement. Our neurologist wanted to keep her another day so he could intervene quickly if there were any changes ( we are 45 minutes away). She continued to improve and we picked her back up yesterday 1/19 late afternoon. No MRI was done.
She is continuing meds as on the post surgical schedule with the only change that her prednisolone stay at 1 1/2 tabs through today then begin taper tomorrow as before. No diazepam.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
17.4 lbs 6.5 y.o
Rimadyl as of 1/9 for 2 days SToPPED 1/11
no 4-7 days washout before start Pred, no double GI protection
1/13 SURGERY
prednisolone post-op 1/13: 7.5mgs 1x/day; then 1/17 taper
as of 1/17: 7.5 mgs 1x/day for 4 days then taper 1/21
Codeine 15 mg 3x/day
gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day
cefpodoximen (antibiotic) 500mgs 1x/day
omeprazole 10mg 1x/day]
They also found her very hard to express and felt she had control and was urinating very good amounts. They checked her bladder with the ultrasound and were happy with the size. I was told not to express her and she has continued to urinate in sporadic large amounts on a pad in her crate. No dribbling in between. She is not asking to go out but definitely is aware when she is peeing. She does ask to go out when she needs to poop.
She is on strict crate rest as before and our md said to take her out about every 4 hours for no more than 10 minutes to offer her the chance to pee. She is peeing a little bit when we go out but it is freezing here and she has never been a fan of peeing when it’s cold or snowy. Gracie did poop a HUGE amount last evening and again today.
Our vet still feels confident Gracie will do well and walk (albeit not gracefully).
Both neurologists at our clinic conferred and examined Gracie and do not believe another disk slipped or that she has a clot. They feel like she may have been extremely fatigued or had a little more disk material enter the canal. Apparently it was a large rupture:( Whew. All good.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 20, 2022 14:18:03 GMT -7
Very good news that Gracie has improved since her episode of weakness. That must have been quite scary.
If you feel that the weather makes her reluctant to pee outside, consider using a pee pad inside the house. Sometimes dogs are reluctant to use a pee pad (mine was). If that is the case, try getting a paper towel or newspaper with another dog's urine on it. That will clearly indicate to Gracie that this is a place to pee. It worked for my dog, and it might help Gracie. |
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 21, 2022 13:52:56 GMT -7
Thank you for your suggestions. Gracie continues to get better and is now starting to act much more like herself! She is walking with sling and harness assist,and can pee and poop outside.
Most often, however, she pees while in her crate (a good amount) and it seems to always be when she is relaxed and in a deep sleep [pees] It looks like when she pees it wakes her up. She rearranges herself away from the spot and dozes back off again.
She is peeing about every 2 1/2 hours but I expect that to slow as her prednisolone and water consumption decreases.
My question is this: did your little friends also do this? We are trying to time it and take her out prior to the 2 1/2 mark but we are also being careful not to exceed our MDs instructions of outside only about every 4 hours. Tricky!
At what point do you think we may see her retain her urine while she sleeps? She is only 8 days post op so I am asking mostly out of curiosity.
Thank you, Elaine (and Gracie)
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 21, 2022 14:23:29 GMT -7
Gracie is doing very well so soon after surgery.
She will likely need to drink less and pee less now that the taper has started. Every 2 1/2 hours was about how often my dog needed to pee when he was taking pred.
For now, try giving her the last drink of the day about two hours before bedtime and take her out right before bed. She should have free access to water during the day.
Since your vet only wants her to walk every 4 hours, and she needs to pee every 2 1/2 hours, consider the pee pad right outside the crate or carrying her to the potty spot. You can use the ex-pen at the potty spot to make sure that she can take only a few steps.
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Jan 25, 2022 14:44:56 GMT -7
Thank you so much!
Hello! Gracie saw the neurosurgeon this morning. She got her staples removed and we discussed her progress and next steps. Our MD is thrilled with the amount of mobility she has regained in 2 weeks. Crate rest with short potty breaks will continue and will be reevaluated at her 4 week visit on 2/8.
He wants us to stop using the sling and change over to using a scarf for underbelly support as needed to avoid any falls and to help her correct when she wobbles (which she definitely does) He wants Gracie to start working on her own balance and to increase the strength in her rear legs.
We are starting to look into water treadmill therapy now. There is a waiting list so she probably would not start it until after our 4 week visit.
One quick success story: Gracie has always rung a bell at the door to let us know she needs to go out. We hung the bell in her crate and she immediately picked up that habit once again. She has had no accidents now for 48 hours including overnight. And she seems less anxious now that she can let us know she has to go out.
One day at a time. Things are looking up.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 25, 2022 15:08:46 GMT -7
I am happy to hear this about Gracie.
No accidents is definitely good news.
It is a good plan to let Gracie walk and support her own weight while having the scarf there to right her as needed.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 25, 2022 15:11:04 GMT -7
Hooray for Gracie! She has made a lot of progress in a short time. IVDD warrior 💙.
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Feb 6, 2022 9:44:43 GMT -7
Hello! Entering our 4th week post op. Gracie continues on crate rest. When we take her out to go potty we use a harness and a scarf to help with balance. Tuesday 2/8 is our next neurologist visit (4 week visit) and we are set up for a rehab evaluation the week after.
My question is this: Gracie definitely can stand up and walk using both rear legs. She is great going forward but any sidestepping or reverse often causes a loss of balance or start of a fall(I catch her with the scarf). I’m sure it is weakness, but where does this weakness stem from? Hips? Legs? Or simply part of the injury. I’m confident she will improve but just want to understand better.
Thank you. I received the brochures I ordered and will be dropping them off to my general DVM so she can provide them to other IVDD patients. So much helpful information!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 6, 2022 10:08:03 GMT -7
Elaine, so happy to hear Gracie is doing well with walking. There is still much time to perfect her muscle strength, brain/muscle coordination or a bit more nerve healing. Your neuro, who can observe Gracie, would be the best person to give you accurate information on where the weakness likely stems from (hips, legs, more nerve healing?, etc.) We look forward to hearing the neuro's report to know what Gracie's status is. At graduation day, then we can share lots of daily living ideas for enjoying many happy years ahead with your IVDD Gracie. We depend on members to help spread the word about IVDD. So very appreciative you ordered the free IVDD brochures for your vet! |
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Feb 9, 2022 14:03:55 GMT -7
Hello! We took Gracie to see the neurologist yesterday for her 4 week follow up. Got a great report! He is very pleased with her progress and said she is at the point he had hoped/expected her to be after 4 weeks. The doctor mentioned that we have seen approx 80% of Gracie's progress to date and will likely see another 20% improvement over the next 4-8 weeks. Then we will see subtle improvements from that point on. He said the improvements will be slower, but will occur. No matter what we see from this point, Gracie is back to being a walker and back to being a talker with spunk. So nice to see! Doctors instructions to us are to not use the scarf sling unless we see she is tired, wobbly or on an uneven surface. We want to avoid falling as much as possible. Take her on a controlled harness/leash walk on a flat surface 5 minutes/day 1, 10 minutes/day 2 and so on. correction: -- 5min/day for WEEK 1, -- 10 min/day for WEEK 2 etc. Stop walking if she gets tired and let her rest. We want her to gradually build up her muscles and endurance. He said we can start letting Gracie out of the crate for short periods in a small room as long as we are within arms reach, watching at all times and have her harness on. Slow, steady and careful over the next few weeks. We discussed long term changes in her activities-no couch jumping, no stairs etc. We get a rehab eval next week and our MD is primarily interested in water treadmill and an exercise program. Dr Cochran would like us to call him in 4 weeks so we can give an update and talk about next steps. All good! We are looking forward to learning about the resources Dodgerslist has for us at this point in Gracie's recovery. Elaine P.S. I asked Dr Cochran if he was aware of Dodgerslist and he was not. BUT, he was VERY interested and wrote the info down to follow up on. So today, I sent him a follow up letter thanking him once again and included the Dodgerslist MD letter as well as one of each of the brochures and emergency cards for his information. I also dropped off a letter and packet for our general DVM. |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 9, 2022 14:44:46 GMT -7
It is very nice to hear that Gracie has made such good progress and your neuro is suggesting (supervised) time outside the crate.
Graduation day is here, and slowly re-introducing her to regular activities is definitely the way to go. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions.
My dog Frankie made very good progress on the water treadmill. Here is some more information and a video of how it looks.
We have some suggestions on reintroducing back friendly activities and some things to avoid going forward here:
Ways to modify your home to protect Gracie's back are here:
Lots more ideas and tips in living with an IVDD dog:
Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions about surgery? We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/13/member-reported-surgery-costs-recommendationsState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: |
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Feb 12, 2022 16:47:52 GMT -7
This is great information. Thanks again! I posted a thread with our surgical info.
Hi, I need to correct something in my last post. Gracie is to walk
-- 5min/day for WEEK 1,
-- 10 min/day for WEEK 2 etc.
Only increase if she tolerates the activity.
Thank you.
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Post by Elaine & Gracie on Feb 15, 2022 16:08:52 GMT -7
Here is my final update-and it's all good. We took Gracie to be evaluated by a rehab vet. She said Gracie is doing wonderfully and, based on what she sees now, she is confident that she will regain 95-100% of her motion over time. We will be getting a home exercise program to follow and a short stint of water treadmill was suggested. We discussed home and behavior modifications and we also discussed that this is a chronic condition and there are no promises that this won't reoccur.
I want to thank you all for your knowledge, support and encouragement during this scary journey. You have helped us more than you can know.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 15, 2022 19:24:21 GMT -7
Elaine, it is a pleasure to hear this Forum has played a good supporting role for you and Gracie!! Thank you!
We would really LOVE it if you stop by periodically time to time to let us know how things are going with Gracie. If you can, a video of Gracie doing her PT or just having some fun would help new members just beginning a scary IVDD journey to let them know there is hope for their dog to get back to living and loving life with their family.
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