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Post by Craig & Bo on Apr 14, 2021 9:29:44 GMT -7
Hi All My Girl has just had spinal surgery for a disc on her neck , when she went in she stil had deep pain sensation. She is now 6 days post op and still in the vets, not standing , has some movement in her front legs and some tone in her back . She doesnt seem to be making any progression . Note , she is a Dogue de bordeaux ( I know weight is not on her side) .
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit about 100 lbs? 4/14 some front leg movement, no back leg movement Meds? at hospital]
The vets ring me every day and I visit every other day . I am worried she may stay this way. Does anyone have any experiences with a larger dog ? I live in hope she will start to try and walk . Thanks
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 14, 2021 13:45:22 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. We are glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve learned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you! Learn more about us and how we team up with veterinarians: dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/Disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions? Re-think things: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/hope-quality-life/One thing to keep in mind is that nerves are very slow to heal. We need to think in terms of many months and not days for enough nerve repair to take place before functions would return. Six days post surgery is very, very early in the healing process. Please do not be discouraged if you have not seen any progress yet.
Dogue de bordeaux is a large breed, but being large does not make her chances of recovery any less. The information on Dodgerslist applies to dog's of all sizes. The difference is mainly logistical. A large dog is more difficult to care for during the recovery process because they cannot not be lifted and moved easily. Although the breeds most prone to IVDD are smaller like Dachshunds and Shih Tzus, many larger dogs also have the disease. Planning how to care for your dog before she comes home will make things easier.
One of the things that helped me and other owners of larger dogs is something like the "Help Em Up" harness. This harness is designed for lifting a larger dog. "Help Em Up" is just a brand name for this type of harness. There are other brands as well. Having something like this for her when she is discharged will make things easier.
When your girl is discharged, she may not yet have bladder control. Dogs that do not have bladder control must be expressed. This is because stale urine in the bladder can lead to UTIs. Prior to discharge, please ask the vet for a hands-on lesson in expressing. For a larger dog, expressing while the dog is lying on the side on multiple pee pads may be easiest in the beginning. When I first brought my dog Frankie home after surgery, I expressed this way with one arm under the body and one on top. As Frankie healed I tried other positions for expressing. Use whatever method works for you. We have information on expressing here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/When she first comes home, she will need strictly limited movement to allow time for the surgical areas to heal. We have information about the strict rest recovery process and tips for setting up the recovery suite here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-processWe have some home care tips at the link below: dodgerslist.com/nursing-care-during-the-disc-episode/
Dr. Andrew Isaacs, DVM, ACVIM (Neurology) answers some of our members questions about surgery here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/12/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers
What is your dog's name? Your name too? I am Romy.
The very best thing you can do for yourself and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD as soon as possible. Understand the 4 phases of healing, what to expect with pain, with swelling, disc and nerve healing:
At the MAIN WEBSITE, use the orange SEARCH bar feature to easily access more IVDD information: dodgerslist.com/
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Post by Craig & Bo on Apr 19, 2021 1:40:07 GMT -7
Hi Romy
I am Craig , my dog is Bo . I have been to see her 4 days last week . She is now able to pull herself onto her belly and drag herself up. Her front legs are trying ( right is stronger than left) but she's not able to stand. Her back legs are retracting too but she's not trying to stand on them yet. The vets are optimistic as am I that she'll stand soon on her own. So she's making good progression given she's only 11 days post op . Still not peeing on her own and still has a cafetar in.
Thanks for all the info you provided I will do some reading .
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 19, 2021 5:03:14 GMT -7
Hi, Kraig. So good to hear that there has been improvement so soon after surgery. Keep in mind that there is still surgical swelling for about two weeks following surgery and sometimes not much improvement is seen until that swelling resolves. Nerves are so very, very slow to heal so it's great hearing there has already been improvement.
It sounds as though Bo is still in the hospital. Any discharge date given yet? Usually we see dogs confined to the hospital following surgery for 3-4 days. They can be given oral meds at home. As for the catheter, you can be taught to clean and change it but best for the health of the bladder is to learn how to manually express Bo's bladder. Take a look at the link Romy gave you above about expressing so you have an understanding of what's involved. It's really not difficult. Just get a demonstration by the hospital before her discharge. Is there any specific reason why Bo is still in the hospital?
Occasionally we hear of a surgeon who wants to keep a dog in the hospital until there is more nerve healing seen (bladder control, standing, etc.). As Romy mentioned above, nerves can take a very long time to heal, months rather than days or weeks. It took my Jeremy six months following surgery to walk again and he's never fully regained bladder control 9 years after surgery. So unless there is another specific reason why Bo is still confined to the hospital, do speak to the surgeon about allowing Bo to come home and be with her loving family. Dogs heal much better in a familiar environment and with their loved ones.
We're here for you and Bo so do reach out to us with any concerns that you may have. Healing prayers for Bo.
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Post by Craig & Bo on Apr 19, 2021 7:16:59 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie .
Thanks for your kind words.
She is still in the hospital , they have said they would like to see her standing and able to pee first .
I am visiting every other day , I do understand your comment that she be better at home with me and I will speak to them to ask their thoughts on this , I am hoping she has now turned a corner and will continue to improve . I think they have concerns because of her size and she has nurses and vets on hand to help her , Its a tough choice as she is getting great care there and going through rehab with them , but my presence motivates her more .
Thank you Craig
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 19, 2021 8:09:21 GMT -7
Craig, caring for a front and back leg paralyzed 100 lbs or so dog does come with a challenge. You know your strength ability best and if you have someone at home who could help you. It is good that you live close enough to make every other day visits a possibility. What country are you in, if it is not USA? Do you have a back end and front end harness that is very helpful with large breed dogs as Romy mentioned? Folks at the hospital have training in safely moving a large dog. Ask for a demo on using those techniques to see how you might use at home, if/when you would feel capable. HELP 'EM UP: A complete shoulder and hip harness system: helpemup.com/features/sizes for 10 to 225 pounds dogs. No one will be able to give you a date for nerve functions to return. However, it is known what the typical order for return of nerve function happens in. Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. YES! Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. 2. YES! Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. ? Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test.4. YES 4/14! Front leg movement & attempts a move up to a stand ? back leg movement then ability for back legs to move up into a standing position then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. More info: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmLet us know if you have seen a happy tail wag when she sees you coming.
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Post by Craig & Bo on Apr 19, 2021 9:19:08 GMT -7
Hi Paula I am in the UK .
Bo is wagging her tail a lot , moving her front legs , has sensation in her back and will retract when pulled. She can pull her self onto her belly . She does attempt to push on her front and when on a harness / lift she will place her front Paws but still not enough strength to hold herself .
I am going to see her tomorrow so will discuss options with the vets .
Thanks again .
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 19, 2021 10:21:02 GMT -7
Craig you may be interested to read about 60lbs Fifi so you do not feel alone in caring for a large dog. Sarah's greyhound Fifi: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7995/sarahs-fifi-surgery-greyhound-switzerlandHOW TO IDENTIFY NERVE FUNCTION For us humans to be able to distinguish between reflex and brain directed, we have to see some sort of head level involvement with the tail, with a limb or with release of urine so we know the movement was done with purposeful thinking. --- Sniff (head level nose) on an old peed spot, then release of urine would be brain directed. --- Hear (head level ear) you doing some happy talk and then tail wags is brain directed. Tail movement during potty time can often be a reflex --- Itchy sensation at neck and then tries to scratch would be purposeful movement. Tickling paws, etc can cause reflex leg movements of pushing in or out. Look forward to what you and your surgeon feel would be best for Bo's care at this point in time.
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