|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Jul 16, 2020 8:36:14 GMT -7
[Original subject line:Willow's Surgery 30/06/20 (UK) ] ★1 10kg, currently taking Gabapentin 100mg 3 x per day. Was meant to be taking meloxicam but as Willow was vomitting from this we were asked to stop. She is showing no signs of pain. ★2 What breed? Willow is a 4 year old Cavapoo, my name is Lauren. ★3 On Monday 29th June, Willow was very lethargic and not her usual self, i let her rest in her bed all day and didn't take her on any walks. I kept checking on Willow throughout the night/morning of Tuesday 30th June and at around 5am Willow suddenly lost the use of her hind legs, we rushed her to the vets who did an MRI that day. It showed Willow had 2 slipped discs and she was operated on within 12hrs of first signs of paralysis. ★5 No pain... Willow's personality has definitely come back! If i'd let her, she'd scoot herself everywhere! She always wants to play still and isn't fussed about being confined to a crate. I am not giving into those puppy eyes though so she has her toys in her crate and she can cuddle up to them! ★6 Still needs help going to the toilet with bladder expression. ★7 Willow wagged her tail when I got her dinner ready 5 days post surgery, not seen anything since! She can hold herself in a standing position for about 3 seconds with our help. She also stretches out her back legs - is this a reflex or can she feel them?? ★8 Willow is not wetting the bed but does need help with Bladder expression 3 - 4 times per day. I know I am definitely in good company when I say this, but this has really hit me like a ton of bricks. I never imagined Willow would be in the state she is in at such a young age. My partner and I were heartbroken that day we took her to the vets and I wake up feeling sick everyday with the unknown.One minute she was OK, the next, paralysed! Upon taking her to the vets she had positive DPS & anal tone. I'm so lucky to be currently working from home but i worry about the day that i get a call back to the office. The neurologists report upon discharge from the hospital was 'paraplegia with questionable deep pain suspected to be present in the tail and left pelvic limb The cutaneous trunci cut off was stable at the same level prior to surgery. She was comfortable on spinal palpation. Her examination was consistent with some improvement from her neurological status compared to hers prior to surgery'. Thats just a lot of jargon to me, i read paraplegia and fear the worst. The vets and neurologist were excellent but due to covid we are unable to sit down with them and go through the prognosis. We do have a follow up in 2 weeks time so i hope at that time we can go in with Willow and ask the raft of questions i have in my head! We have been doing physio with Willow 3-5 times per day with 5 min walks on a sling. She just wants to get going bless her, she is determined! When i pick her up she stretches her back legs really strong, I got really excited seeing that but now doubt myself as to whether this is just a reflex? As I say we are 15 days post op and Willow can bear weight on the hind legs for a few seconds when assisted so I know we have improved from 15 days ago when willow's back legs were like noodles. I suppose i would just like a crystal ball if anyone has one going spare  |
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jul 16, 2020 9:46:28 GMT -7
Lauren, welcome to the Dodgerslist Forum! We are glad you are here. As usual, always qualify your source of information from anyone. So vet us, PLEASE!! Know more about us and comments veterinary professionals make: dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/Sounds as though you have a good handle on expressing the bladder if you find no urine leaks in bedding. Are you also expressing for poop more as a measure to avoid Willow feeling anxiety to find poop where she sleeps? Easy to do, no demo required: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/It is very overwhelming to be blindsided by a diagnosis of IVDD. Education is the key to IVDD! Our goal is to help you maneuver things that can be overwhelming with an IVDD diagnosis in caring for your dog. Getting quickly up to speed on intervertebral DISC disease helps you in understanding the why of what your vet advises and the ability to bring things to the table in working together to help heal the disc. You will be very amazed how quickly you can learn a lot about just one disease which a vet is not able to know in great detail for every single disease known to cats, dogs, birds, and many other species they treat. The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to read and learn as quickly as you are able.
-- You are likely concerned when nerve functions will self repair. Want to have a sense what other neuros say about how long it takes: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/healing-nerves/
QUESTIONS: For how many weeks does your surgeon want for crate rest which will include his directives for PT. Some want 4 weeks and other 6 or more weeks. |
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Jul 17, 2020 1:10:53 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Thank you for your response, the links you sent to me made for good reading and i do need to educate myself on this disease.
I am not expressing for poop, Willow will do it in her bed and move out the way (she has enough room in her crate to do so). I am by her side day and night so i clean her up straight away. We had some bed wetting in week 1 but thankfully in week 2 i haven't seen this.
We were called last night by our vet to submit a video of willow 'walking' ... i told them she isn't yet walking and still drags her back legs along. The response was 'oh' which obviously panicked me more.
I've submitted videos this morning of willow walking with a sling and a video of us helping willow get into a standing position only supporting her chest. She can can hold herself for about 3-5 seconds.
The aftercare plan from the vet was:
Short & frequent walks (5-10 mins per walk, 3-5 times per day) on the lead with a harness and pelvic sling. This can be increased depending on how Willow recovers but exercise should be kept to a minimum over the next 6 weeks. When left unattended Willow should be confined to a large crate. No stair climbing, off lead walking, jumping or vigorous exercise for the next 8 weeks.
Now i have submitted my videos to the vet this morning, i should get a call from them to discuss later on today. I will update once i have had feedback from the vet.
Thank you for your help, kind words & inspiration.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
|
Post by Marjorie on Jul 17, 2020 5:25:52 GMT -7
It's still very early days in Willow's healing, Lauren. So hang in there - nerves are very slow to heal and can take months. No one, not even the surgeon, can tell you when healing will take place. But one way to look at the hospital thinking Willow should be walking by now - they must have very good expectations for her! One thing I see in the aftercare plan where the wording could be misleading is "No stair climbing... jumping...for the next 8 weeks". There should never again be any stair climbing or jumping for Willow. That causes too much stress on her spine and since IVDD is a life long disease, steps must be taken to help prevent future problems. Here's how you can start to prepare your home to be back friendly: dodgerslist.com/2020/07/09/home-protect-ivdd-backs/Many of our members have found underwater treadmill therapy to be very beneficial in getting those legs moving. Always check with the surgeon before starting any type of PT: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapyAlso acupuncture and/or laser light therapy can be helpful and usually can be started right after surgery if within your budget: dodgerslist.com/?s=acupuncture&id=4083Here is our page on post-op therapy. There may be exercises here that you would like to run past the surgeon to get his approval for: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/27/surgery-dog-pt/?highlight=therapyHealing prayers for Willow. |
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Jul 17, 2020 6:00:25 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie, I understand it is very early days and I need to try and silence my anxiety, but i have been completely blindsided with Willow's condition. We have had an update from the vet after submitting Willow's videos and they are pleased with her progress. They also reminded us we are only in week 2 and shouldn't be expecting any huge improvements in the first 4 weeks. This period should be focused on plenty of rest and physio, which is what we are making sure we stick to. They said Willow is exactly where she should be considering the surgery she had and they weren't expecting her to be walking... (mixed message from what we got before). I was relieved to hear that the stretching Willow does with her hind legs is a positive as it shows muscle tone. Which is something I guess. They said even if she doesn't regain DPS then she could 'spinal walk'. She had DPS before surgery and after surgery so i don't know why they used the word 'regain' - again probably lost in translation as we speak to a different nurse/vet every time... sometimes i think its just the receptionist passing on a message! I'm interested in the DPS and know I shouldn't test this myself. But when i pinch Willow's toes she lifts them up? She also lifts up her tail and legs to do a wee when we express her bladder... maybe just a reflex? We had another tiny tail wag this morning but only lasted about 3-5 seconds. We have a follow up appointment in 2 weeks which will be 4 weeks post surgery to have a full exam and hopefully a better understanding of Willow's prognosis. They have recommended we find a facility that has an underwater treadmill that Willow can visit 2-3 times per week. Unfortunately our insurers are not forthcoming in even paying for the surgery so i am sure it is a long, expensive road to recovery... however, i'd pay the earth if it meant getting my Willow back to her old self I agree with you Marjorie, after Willow has completely healed i will treat her like glass for the rest of her life. No jumping or going up the stairs again for little madam! Thank you for your advice - it is greatly appreciated. |
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jul 17, 2020 6:26:22 GMT -7
Deep pain sensation can be difficult to determine and you should only take the word of the surgeon. It would be difficult for you to determine. However, should you see any sign of neuro function, such as a happy tail wag, that would prove the existence of deep pain sensation.
You need to look for a brain/nerve connection, such as wagging her tail when she hears a happy voice or someone she knows comes into the room or she's given a treat. Tail movement during potty time is usually reflex. Moving her leg in an attempt to scratch her head would be a sign of brain/nerve connection.
Occasionally you should try a sniff and pee test to determine whether bladder control is returning. Carry her to a spot where she or another dog has peed before, support her hind end but not under her belly and see if she can release urine on her own. If she can, then bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express after she's gone on her own until you're sure she can completely empty her bladder on her own.
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk.
3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test.
Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine.
4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking.
5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
Please do continue to keep us updated on Willow's status.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Jul 19, 2020 7:49:00 GMT -7
Hello everyone, Hope you are having a great weekend Willow's given me some encouraging signs this weekend... well i think they are positives anyway  I got her out of her crate yesterday to lay beside me on a nice blanket. Within seconds she'd dozed off! Whilst she was dozing, i kept on tickling her paw pad. She hasn't reacted at all since the surgery on 30th June but yesterday she flinched! This morning when doing her physio i tickled her paw again and this time she kicked! I've been having trouble expressing her bladder all day so thought i might take her outside and try her on the grass. As soon as her front paws touched the grass, the back legs and tail went up and she pee'd! Not sure if this passes the 'sniff & pee test' as she didn't sniff, but Willow only pee's on the grass, any grass, in any spot! And we've had no pee accidents in her bed. Unfortunately we did wake up to a big poop this morning but it can't be helped. Take care, Lauren |
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jul 19, 2020 11:01:00 GMT -7
Yes, I would say that Willow has passed a sniff and pee test, Lauren! What wonderful news! She made a conscious decision to release urine when she reached the grass. And was able to hold her urine until she reached the grass. It would be a good idea to do a quick express after she's gone on her own until you're sure that she's able to completely empty her bladder on her own. Way to go, Willow!
Tickling the paw pads is a great way to get those reflexes firing so do keep that up. Leg movement when tickling paw pads is most likely reflex but that's good, too. Have you seen a happy tail wag yet?
|
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Jul 22, 2020 1:50:02 GMT -7
Good Morning, Sorry for the delay in reply. Today marks 3 weeks since Willow's surgery... She wagged her tail when we got her food ready 9 days after surgery but it was only for a couple of seconds and i haven't got her to do it since.  The sniff and pee test is hit and miss at the minute, sometimes she does it when i take her outside but mostly she goes on her pad when i express her (especially in the morning). The paw tickling that resulted in 'twitches' a few days ago are now full on kicks and she turns her head when she kicks as if to say 'whats going on back there'. I am due to get a phone call from the hydrotherapist today to get an appointment on their underwater treadmill asap. Our vet has suggested 3 times per week but i think we will only be able to manage twice a week due to work and money as our insurers will not pay out. |
|
Mary & Mila
Helpful Member 
FEMALE— DACHSHUND
Posts: 218
|
Post by Mary & Mila on Jul 22, 2020 2:46:16 GMT -7
Hi Lauren, Please don't be discouraged with what may seem like slow progress with Willow. It does seem like she did indeed pass the sniff and pee test as Marjorie said and that's a very good indicator of things to come. I think you'll find when Willow starts the water therapy you will see some more improvement, my dog's back legs were very weak following 8 weeks of conservative treatment for IVDD but her muscle tone improved from very early on in the water therapy. This can happen for Willow too. I've included a quote from Dr Issacs, a neurosurgeon who provides us with valuable insights and info here at Dodgerslist and also included the link so you can check out other post op Q & A's information in your own time. " I will advise owners that I do not get concerned or discouraged until 2-4 weeks post-operatively. The status at 2-4 weeks sets the tone for the dog’s recovery. At 2-4 weeks post-operatively, I hope to have seen some (but not complete) improvement. Sometimes the degree of improvement is dramatic and other times, only very mild. Regardless, as long as some improvement has occurred, I am not concerned/discouraged.
Before 2-4 weeks there has not been enough time for the spinal cord to heal, and we have not allowed enough time to pass to see the benefit of surgery. Even if no improvement is noted by 4 weeks, it is not hopeless, it is just not as likely.
I also advise that at 2-4 weeks, we are not seeing the end result of the healing process – this typically does not occur for 6-12 months and in some cases, even longer."
dodgerslist.com/2020/05/12/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers/Looking forward to updates when Willow begins the water therapy. kind regards Mary |
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Aug 2, 2020 4:04:46 GMT -7
Hi All, Just a quick update on Willow's progress...  She seems to have taken a bit of a backwards step on peeing outside, she was doing well on the sniff and pee but over the past couple of days she's pee'd when I've picked her up out of her crate and not made it outside. However on a more positive note, Willow is now wagging her tail!!! Every time she comes out of her crate for her physio and a 5 min walk, that tail don't stop wagging We took her for her hydrotherapy first [underwater treadmill] session on Wednesday and the physio was really positive with Willow's outlook. We are going to take her once a week, we would prefer twice a week but because of Covid, appointments are scarce! Willow also keeps herself standing for a minute or so when we get her into a standing position. We have to help with her stability as she sways side to side, but she certainly has the strength to stay standing. Take care x |
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Aug 2, 2020 6:55:26 GMT -7
So wonderful to hear of that happy tail wag from Willow, Lauren! Great news. Leaking when being picked up indicates that the bladder is overflowing and that's not healthy for the bladder. If Willow cannot hold her urine until she gets outside, then she needs to have her bladder expressed, possibly more often than currently. How often do you currently express her bladder or try to take her out to potty? The goal when expressing is to get proficient enough to keep Willow dry in between expressing. Be sure to express her after she's gone on her own or leaked to be sure the bladder is completely empty. The bladder should feel flat, almost like your fingers are touching. Tips on expressing: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/Not having full bladder control can also lead to urinary tract infections. UTIs can cause leaking, too. You should have Willow's urine tested for a UTI. Often vets will allow a urine sample to be brought in to be tested but sometimes they want to take a clean sample directly from the dog. |
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Nov 15, 2020 15:10:08 GMT -7
Good Evening,
Firstly I want to apologise for not keeping up with this thread. It's been quite hectic these past few months but none the less that is no excuse.
I am super pleased to update how far Willow has come now we are 4 months post surgery. Willow walks unaided, albeit she is wobbly. Her right leg is almost 100% there, the left leg has some catching up to do. It drags along and is less coordinated than the right leg and trips her up, however our physio says it's very common for one leg to come back quicker than the other when recovering. We continue to go hydrotherapy every week and we see tiny improvements each week.
8 weeks post surgery we took Willow for her follow up with her neurosurgeon who signed her off as she was so pleased with her progress but said she may always be wobbly but she will be just fine which was a great relief, it felt like winning the lottery in all honesty.
To those that were like me 4 months ago, hopeless & heartbroken... It can get better! Never give up and trust the process. Willow is such a happy pooch, she never has let her IVDD hold her back. I admire her, I wish I could be so carefree!!
We do have one setback and it seems to be behavioural... Willow's toileting habits are not improving! She was having pee accidents round the house as I said in a previous post but that turned out to be a water infection. Since her antibiotics she hasn't had any pee accidents in the house... quite the opposite actually, she will not pee unaided! I have to touch her belly when we are outside and then hold her hips to go, it's like she doesn't trust herself that she can squat! Now and then she will sniff where another dog has been and pee on her own, but it's really on her terms! More often than not I have to help her.
On top of that, Willow has picked up a habit of holding onto her poop all day and going to the toilet in her crate [poops] every single night between 2am-4am!!! I was concerned and told her neurologist who checked her over and said it was purely behavioural as she was continent, and she is actively getting up and walking in her crate to squat and poop! This has been backed up by her physio who said she would be more concerned if willow was pee'ing around the house too but as it's purely poop accidents its highly likely its behavioural.
I don't know what more i can do to get her out of this habit? I've tried telling her off, rewarding her when she does it outside, even moving all her food allowance for the day into 1 sitting first thing in the morning, but she is still pooping at 2-4am .... has anyone had any experience with this??
Take care all,
Lauren
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 15, 2020 21:28:23 GMT -7
Lauren, thank you for stopping in to let us know how nicely Willow is progressing with walking. Good news in that department! !
I'm not sure what to offer about the behavioral potty habits. Other than to make sure you have a source of another dog's pee to spritz on the grass for continued proper peeing opportunities.
Maybe try changing again her eating time to try to get it to approach during normal day times or right before bedtime.
Do you have a trainer in your area who may have other ideas?
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Nov 16, 2020 6:02:02 GMT -7
Dogs heal in many different ways. While most dogs regain bladder/bowel control before they start to walk, other dogs do not. My own dog, Jeremy, has never regained complete bladder/bowel control although he started walking several months following his surgery. I have to express his bladder in order to keep it from overflowing. And yet when we go for a walk, he does release urinate on his own when he smells another dog's urine. It's as though the nerves connecting the brain to the bladder only work one way. His brain can tell his bladder to release when he smells another dog's urine but his bladder cannot let his brain know when his bladder is full. Willow must have some bladder control as she's able to hold her urine while in the house. But possibly her nerve from brain to bladder hasn't completely returned yet like Jeremy's. Plus Jeremy has never regained complete bowel control. Very occasionally he feels it coming and squats but most times he just keeps walking as he goes and doesn't seem aware of it. His bowels also release when he's sleeping. I express his bowels before we go anyplace I don't want him pooping at and also every night before bed. It's easy to do and helps prevent accidents. Here's info on how to properly express the bowels: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/%E2%80%8B?highlight=expressDo you actually see Willow get up in the middle of the night and squat or is it possible that her bowels are releasing on their own without her control? She may have enough control during the day when she's awake but not when she's asleep. If Jeremy does have an accident in his bed, he wakes me up during the night walking around his bed but he's trying to cover up the poop that has probably awoken him from the smell. The smell sure wakes me up! I also see his bowels release when he's sleeping during the day and can see he has little control over it. Most dogs will not want to soil their beds. It could very well be that Willow has not yet regained full bladder and/or bowel control. Dogs sometimes can confound their vets and owners with the progress of their healing. |
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Nov 16, 2020 9:26:45 GMT -7
Thank you Paula & Marjorie for the reply! We don't have a behavioural therapist nearby but our physio works in a lot of areas and has been speaking to a behavioural specialist she knows and she said the same thing about getting another dog to pee in our garden! Unfortunately, we've not yet found another dog that can come into our garden, although we seen a neighbour passing with their dog last week so we are going to ask them to come round tomorrow and let their pooch christen our garden Marjorie - It sounds similar to how Jeremy behaves but Willow is definitely standing up in the night, then squatting and pooping, it's not like she isn't aware of what's happening. I don't know if she is 'scared' to poop? Sounds silly I know but if I am stood at my back door and Willow is at the top of the garden and starts to squat and poop, she runs/squats to get nearer to me whilst she does it? It's very odd. Also, Willow has a play pen around her bed upstairs which I carry her up to every night. Before bed every night she runs into her little bed in the kitchen and hunkers down and growls if i try to pick her up to go upstairs? Maybe she doesn't like being upstairs and is pooping out of fear? I don't know.... tonight i am going to leave her in her kitchen bed and shut the door behind me.... then i'll see if i come down to any mess in the night  |
|
|
|
Post by Lauren & Willow on Mar 23, 2021 14:28:46 GMT -7
Evening All,
Thought I’d pop on to update you on Willow’s progress.
The physio was really impressed with willows recovery in January 2021 and willow now only has to visit once a week instead of once a month.
Since willow has been able to walk again we haven’t been walking her very far at all. No longer than 10 mins a day because we are just so scared something will happen again. Our physio advised us to walk willow for longer and try not to be scared (easier said than done) but since we’ve been taking her on longer walks, I’ve got to say, we’ve really seen an improvement and willow seems happier than ever. Her left leg is still the weakest one, she drags it when she gets tired and often trips up over it!
She now pees on her own in the garden without having to smell where another dog has been. The pooping is still a problem. She just doesn’t have the ability to hold on to it! As soon as she feels it coming she can’t stop it which worries me. Our physio says to stay patient, she still has some healing to do... but is it possible to regain bowel control??
|
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 23, 2021 15:21:40 GMT -7
I think many pet parents of IVDD dogs feel scared that our dogs could have another episode, and we become overcautious. We have a thread here where members talk about this: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivddUsually bladder control and bowel control return around the same time, but this is not always true. My dog Frankie regained bladder control months before he regained bowel control. He would just poop wherever he was and often seem surprised about it. I thought he might never regain bowel control but with time he did. There is certainly hope that Willow will regain control also. |
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Mar 23, 2021 17:57:18 GMT -7
Lauren until such time as nerves are repaired for pooping, you could express. This is not necessary for health reasons, but just to avoid accidents in the house you'd need to clean up and to avoid anxiety for Willow if she would find poop where she sleeps. A video and tips to help you with easy-to-learn poop expressing: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/ |
|
