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Post by Meredith & Chevy on Jul 5, 2020 17:37:59 GMT -7
I think I need some reassurance that we are doing the right thing and just need to be patient. Chevy is a French bulldog and had surgery June 10. Two days before I noted pain and weakness in his rear end. My vet put him on carprofen and tramadol. By Wednesday morning he was unable to walk and I took him to the ER where he was evaluated and had surgery that night and had a ruptured disc in L2-L3. They said he did have pain sensation before surgery though was unable to move his legs.
It is almost 4 weeks post op this week and he still cannot walk or move his back end. He is able to urinate and have bowel movements and has control over both. He is walked outside with a sling. He spends time in his bed and if he cannot be watched, he is in his pen. He is off all pain meds and steroids at this time and is very comfortable. Two weeks ago the neurologist told us she was concerned that he wasn't even trying to walk yet and marked him as guarded. We met with the physical therapist 2 days later who seemed a bit more positive, said he had good building blocks to work with and while walking wasn't guaranteed she seemed more hopeful.
At least twice a day I do massage and passive range of motion and use vibration on his legs. I also do a couple active exercises, he can sit with assistance in maneuvering his legs and we are working on standing on a peanut (physioroll). He had his first real physical therapy appointment last week where they did active exercises, hydrotherapy, laser therapy and I requested acupuncture. He tolerates all this very well but he has extremely poor muscle tone and I can only get a reaction out of his right leg when I rub the webbing in his toes, the left leg is super non responsive.
I know spinal and nerve stuff takes time to heal but I feel like we should be seeing more improvements. Am I being too impatient?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 5, 2020 21:34:40 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist! So glad you’ve joined us all. I'm Paula and it appears you may be Paige? We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you! As usual, always qualify your source of information from anyone. So vet us, PLEASE!! Know more about us and comments veterinary professionals make: dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/ I say Wahoo! IF, if your Chevy has bladder control proved by an ability to go outside. Sniff an old pee spot and then decide to release urine there. If you find he leaks on you when lifted or are finding urine in his bed then he may not have bladder control, but a bladder that releases urine due to reflex...called overflowing. Please confirm bladder control for us. Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. HERE?: Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. See why you really do need to have patience with nerve healing. It is still early in the nerve healing department. Better to think in terms of months rather than days weeks. Gain an understanding about nerve healing and what other neuros have to say about length of time for nerve healing: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/healing-nerves/For how many weeks does your neuro want for post-op rest including the PT he has directed? Some say 4 weeks to ensure all the surgical sites are healed and other cases may need 6 weeks. Keep up those paw tickles. That is fabulous way to cause muscle to fire.Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain the muscles with lost nerve connection. Therapy keeps muscles in optimal condition while in wait to receive regenerating axon terminals. Check out the video below to see how that is done. Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog:
What kind of water therapy is it? Swimming or underwater treadmill? More on underwater treadmill here and even a take on that for at home water therapy: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapyWhat country are you in? |
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Post by Meredith & Chevy on Jul 6, 2020 11:19:57 GMT -7
Actually I am Meredith  Yes, he has full bladder control and will not urinate until he has found the perfect spot. For sure 6 weeks, possibly 8 depending on what the therapist says as well (they are at the same facility and work closely together). He is doing underwater treadmill. He was introduced to it 2 weeks ago to see how he tolerated it and had his first real session last week though no movement in the back end. in USAThank you for the follow up and positive thoughts. I am trying to absorb as much information as I can in order to best help him and you have been very helpful. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 6, 2020 13:12:04 GMT -7
Hi Meredith! Having bladder control REALLY bodes quite well for more nerve repair to take place. One of our moderator's dogs began to walk ELEVEN months after the disc episode. Never give up, stay strong! It is so early in the nerve healing department, lots can change. The main goal for all dogs is to be pain free and leading happy lives. Dogs live in the moment and treasure the good happening. We, humans have the ability to morn the loss of the past and frighten ourselves with the future. Not a bad idea to think like a dog on this nerve repair thing. Lots of good times can happen while waiting on nerve repair to take place. A perfect summer day is when….. As Helen Keller says "When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us." This pup didn't waste a moment finding the other open door. He loves life and and enjoys every moment. It's not the manner in which you get from point A to B, it's that you CAN get there.
Please do keep us posted on Chevy's doings and how the treadmill is working for him. |
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Post by Meredith & Chevy on Jul 7, 2020 13:30:56 GMT -7
Thank you for the follow up and additional information. I am going to ask his therapist on Thursday but I am curious your thoughts. I'm currently doing his at home PT and I have always noted his right leg seems stronger than his left. Today I seem to be getting some small movements that I believe are voluntary. His left leg is what I call "floppy fish" and I get nothing out of it except some muscle twitches sometimes. Would it be unusual for one leg to recover before the other? Or one leg recover and the other not at all?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 7, 2020 13:55:06 GMT -7
Good news that you are seeing some leg movement.
It is quite common for one leg to recover before the other. That is exactly what happened during my dog's recovery. Eventually the other leg seemed to catch up.
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Post by Meredith & Chevy on Jul 9, 2020 19:21:43 GMT -7
Chevy had his second PT appointment today and they didn't see any noticeable changes. They tried to help him walk on the water treadmill but he wasn't having it.
Are there any supplements that are recommended? A friend mention to me that Lion's Mane is supposed to promote nerve repair but I haven't heard of it before. I plan on asking his neurologist but was wondering what your thought and experiences were.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 9, 2020 20:18:09 GMT -7
Meredith, if nerves have not yet made enough growth to connect then, there can be no improvement in neuro function yet. Nerves are slow to self-repair than any other part of the body. Has Chevy graduated? Has the neuro said his 4-6 weeks of post op surgery rest have concluded? Have you investigated a wheelchair. Money may better be spent on that to give Chevy a new lease on life to enjoy a good run while waiting on nerve repair! Did the PT person have an opinion on that idea? dodgerslist.com/2020/06/06/wheelchairs/If you have plenty of money in your pocketbook to spare and would like to try supplements and he is not taking any big gun meds, then do your homework. Definitely a good idea to check with your Neuro's opinion. dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/devices-supplements/Nerves self heal. Some find the kick start that laser or acupuncture give have been beneficial. |
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Post by Meredith & Chevy on Jul 16, 2020 11:56:07 GMT -7
Chevy had his PT follow up yesterday. The vet came out and said she was now concerned as she cannot get a response from his quads using the electrotherapy like she would have thought she would by now. It's been 5 weeks since his surgery and she wants to give it 2 more weeks when he has his follow up with the neuro but she thinks we are looking at a wheelchair.
I keep reading that nerve damage takes awhile so I feel like this is somewhat jumping the gun but I'm not a dvm so clearly not an expert. She said I could try a TENS unit at home but she can't guarantee it will do any good.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 16, 2020 13:10:47 GMT -7
Chevy may recover his ability to walk, or he may not. It is still too early to tell. Nerve healing takes time. Dogs on this list have regained function in months and even in a few cases years. At this point post-surgery my dog was still paralyzed. He eventually regained his ability to walk and bladder and bowel control.
Getting a wheelchair does not mean that you have given up on Chevy learning to walk again. Wheelchairs can be modified to help with physical therapy. You can start out with his legs down and see what he does – many dogs use their wheelchairs as walkers. If Chevy is one of these, make sure that the wheelchair is set at a weight-bearing stance, so they can feel their feet touching the ground and use them for traction.
Sometimes when dogs get a wheelchair, they re-learn how to walk when they are in it. Then they start getting stronger and began walking when they aren't in the cart. In any case, a wheelchair will give him the opportunity to get around and explore.
You mentioned that Chevy did not like the underwater treadmill. Could you tell us a little more about his reaction? I ask because the underwater treadmill worked very well for my dog. I don't think he would have recovered nearly as well without it.
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Post by Meredith & Chevy on Jul 16, 2020 15:17:20 GMT -7
Thanks, his PT seemed frustrated and discouraged and I felt like she was giving up on him but maybe she was just bummed to give bad news. My husband wants him to have wheels so he has more freedom to do things, I just don't want to discourage any healing.
Chevy doesn't like water in general though with encouragement he will walk in on the water treadmill but only with his front end. This last time they put a lifejacket on him to see if he would try to swim and they said he was terrified and they won't try it again. They also tried to get in behind him and use his back legs for him but they said he didn't like that either, my assumption is he just sat down and refused to move after that.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 16, 2020 20:56:52 GMT -7
Meredith have you tried some at home water therapy? With a child's $10 plastic blow up pool, you could sit in the pool with him. That might make him feel more comfortable and give him confidence to be in water and overcome his fear of the water, the treadmill. Start out making it just about fun, going after a floating piece of apple or carrot treat, whatever he likes to get him moving with front paws and hopefully at some point moving those back legs with the aid of water bouyancy. Start with short session and as he water fear subsides, longer sessions. A life jacket would also make him feel stable in the water. Use the same principals of water height in the pool as in the video below uses for underwater treadmill. More about at home water therapy here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/ Do you still observe he is able to first sniff and then choose to release urine? |
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