|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 25, 2020 20:58:55 GMT -7
[Original subject line: New here, please help]
can’t find a comfortable position, appears restless, shivering, trembling (when trying to move)
Wolfie weighs 7.8 lbs. He is currently on 0.23ml (per dose) of meloxicam given via syringe. Given once per day, started Friday the 24th.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 7.8 lbs Meloxicam as of 1/24: 0.23mL 1x/day for 5 days, then 1/29 test stop for _pain/_neuro no pain meds are on board! needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/Melocicam! ]
Pepcid AC - No.
eating and drinking okay. No loss of appetite. It is uncomfortable for him to try to eat out of his bowl, so I hand feed him, and hold a cup of water near his head that he drinks out of (with gusto). No nausea. No vomiting. Still loves food.
My name is Madeline, and my dog's name is Wolfie. He is a Pomeranian. 5 years old since June 2019.
The DVM thought best case scenario it was a pinched nerve, but worst case scenario it's some sort of neurological issue. She put down "Intervertebral Disc Disease vs. Other" on his printout after the vet visit.
no surgery set. She wanted to get x-rays and possibly an MRI done but we couldn't afford it.
He cannot go on his own, but he hasn't soiled his bedding yet either. Going to try bladder expression. What do I do about helping him poop, though?
His right leg has always been weak because of his luxating patellas, and it's making it impossible for him to walk with his lame/knuckling left leg, because the right isn't strong enough to support him. When we pick him up to hold him, or try to set him on his puppy pads, he trembles almost non-stop. He didn't sleep well last night, so I imagine a lot of it is fear and stress and exhaustion.
Summary: On the evening of the 24th, started hobbling over to me for help. He wasn't crying, but he couldn't bend his left hindleg. He has luxating patellas in both knees, so it wasn't a surprise that he was having leg issues.
He started dragging his left hindleg, and completely lost his balance. His right leg has always been weak because of his knees, and it couldn't support his weight.
He was miserable and shaking, so we rushed him to an emergency vet in St Louis, Missouri.
The vet immediately checked his vitals, and they all seemed fine. However, his left hind paw was obviously knuckling, and the vet wanted to do an x-ray, but we couldn't afford it right now (working on raising the money for that).
She said best case scenario, it's a pinched nerve, and gave him an oral dosage of meloxicam (syringe) at 0.23ml per dose to be given once a day, and not on an empty stomach. She told us to come back after 48 hours, if he hasn't improved with rest.
We don't have a crate for him right now, we're here in St Louis visiting and taking care of family, so he's been resting in a hamper with a bunch of soft towels and some of our clothes.
I need help making him comfortable in the mean time. He's so frightened, whenever we pick him up, he starts to shake. He doesn't seem to be in pain, just discomfort from not being able to potty since yesterday evening. How can I help keep him calm?
What can I do to reduce his fear and exhaustion? He falls over when he tries to lay down, which terrifies him.
The vet was a general DVM.
He hasn't pooped since Friday morning, or peed since Friday afternoon.
Would stronger pain medication help? Where do we go from here, while we put together money for his x-rays and MRI?
Here is the link to his GoFundMe page. (If this isn't allowed, please let me know and I'll take it down ASAP)
[Link deleted}
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jan 26, 2020 6:08:17 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Madeline. So glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you. **Disc disease is not a death sentence! ** Struggling with quality of life questions? Re-think things: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmYou have a pain emergency that must be addressed ASAP this morning. Do you have an ER that you can get Wolfie to? Getting pain under control should not wait until Monday when you can reach your regular vet. Shivering, trembling when moving, not wanting to move are all signs of pain. Meloxicam is not a pain med, it's an anti-inflammatory. Pain meds are needed, IVDD is most often very painful. Pain meds used with IVDD are Tramadol as a general pain med, Methocarbamol for the pain of muscle spasms and Gabapentin for nerve pain. Sometimes all three pain meds are needed to control the pain. PEPCID AC: Anytime a dog is taking an anti-inflammatory, stomach protection must be added. Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health” issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). canigivemydog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/can-i-give-my-dog-pepcid-ac-300x300.jpg  Doxie weight dogs: 5mg Pepcid AC (famotidine) every 12 hours. NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.htmlA laundry basket is not a safe place for Wolfie during conservative care. When he starts to feel better once his pain is under control, hopefully today, he could get out of a laundry basket or it could tip over. Too much movement and the damaged disc could tear or rupture, possibly leaving him paralyzed, possibly permanent. An ex-pen or playpen or crate are needed to keep Wolfie safe from harm. Think of the recovery suite as a cast for the spine. More on that below. For how many days is Meloxicam to be given? The only way for you to tell whether Wolfie has bladder control is to carry him to a spot where he's peed before (or a pee pad if he's trained to use one), support his hind end but not under his belly and see if he can release urine on his own. If so, he has bladder control. If not, you will need to get a hands-on-your-hands demonstration today on how to express his bladder. It may be that he's in too much pain and is holding both his urine and poop. You'll be better able to tell if he has bladder control once his pain is under control. More on expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmIf you can't afford surgery, conservative care is an option for treatment. Neither x-rays (which don't prove IVDD but only to rule out other diseases) or an MRI are necessary with conservative care. The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎At home laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. DOGs with BLADDER CONTROL: Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg  Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn - excellent video series here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/theater.htm PRINT OUT this link and tape to your fridge: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm use the printout as your roadmap to avoid dangerous detours in your dog’s care make notes/highlight to keep yourself on track follow all the links in the next days to become the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog needs. Use the “search box” to easily locate topics over at our Main www.Dodgerslist.com website: www.dodgerslist.com/index/searchBOX.jpgFundraising is an issue on the forum for several reasons. So many here have not been able to provide surgery due to the dog's health, personal finances or just the desire to try the least invasive treatment first. Because so many members are heavily burdened with unexpected vet bills themselves, it is not likely you will find people in a position to help you financially. What the forum has to offer is priceless and that is support, creditable IVDD information to help you care for your dog and to work closely with vets. I do feel your stress and anxiety to raise funds. So let me mention this alternative to posting about fundraising as outlined in our posting guidelines dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/32/posting-guidelines-forum Please let us know what is prescribed for Wolfie today to get his pain under control and confirm that Pepcid AC is now on board. Healing prayers for Wolfie.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 26, 2020 10:11:36 GMT -7
Madeline, Marjorie has written out excellent information for you to read and absorb!
Just to chime in--- these thoughts: -- You have been seen by the ER vet, so there is no need to transport Wolfie. CALL the ER and report the bad pain Wolfie is in. They can Rx the usual 3-way pain med combo that is used with a disc episode given every 8 hr (tramadol, methocarbamol and gabapentin)
-- typically xrays are NOT used to diagnosie an IVDD disc episode. In fact the xray may do more harm to Wolfie'd disc and spending unnecessary $$.
Reference readings on Xrays (radiographs) with a disc episode: Let us know what the ER in St. Louis prescribes this morning to get Wolfie out of pain by your calling them now.
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 26, 2020 10:31:38 GMT -7
Update on Wolfie: He's doing better this morning, though he still wants to walk around (struggles to move). We are keeping him on a sofa cushion on the floor instead of the hamper until we can get a playpen.My Dad has just gone out to get Famotidine 10 mg, and we are feeding Wolfie breakfast right now. (✙ Famotidine acquired! How much should I give Wolfie? He's a 7.8lb pomeranian) I am not working or in college at the moment, so I am with him 24/7.The vet checked all along his spine and both his legs (during our visit), and didn't find any indication of pain. (Which lines up with you telling me that meloxicam is not a pain med, just an anti-inflammatory) He still chirps every time he hears the doorbell, and he was very interested in barking at and going after a fly on the wall (which is his usual reaction). Would it be safe to say he wouldn't do these things if he was in pain? Wolfie finally peed late last night, and so much of his shaking and fidgeting has been drastically reduced. I brought him to his puppy pads and tried to express his bladder. He was shaking and stressed out by the movement, so I carried him back to his cushion. Less than a minute later, he peed where he was laying.
The meloxicam is for 5 days. After today, he will have two doses left. I will take him back to the emergency vet on Monday to get him on pain meds, it's the best I can do. I just don't have the money to take him today. Thank you very much for the support. Wolfie seems to be very interested in resuming his usual napping schedule, so he's having a nice, quiet morning. In a few hours, I will try to express his bladder and bowels again. Should I be worried about his fidgeting? Is there any way to stop him from doing that? (he shifts around to try to find the best position to sleep in) Another big thing that concerns me. We are currently here in St Louis on vacation, and we need to go back to our home in Chicago, IL on the 14th of February. What precautions can we take to make sure the traveling goes smoothly? Is it possible to give him four weeks of conservative rest here in St Louis, and then do the other four in Chicago? or would that disrupt his progress? Would him being in a crate or doggie car seat during travel help? What size playpen should I get for him? Cloth or metal? Wolfie is my emotional support dog, so he's used to being with us (me and the family) pretty much all the time. How do I help him adjust to Conservative treatment? Added Info: reading now that the x-ray is unhelpful, what about an MRI? Is there anything that can give us a clear picture of where the issue is and what kind of issue? (herniated, collapsed, bulging, etc) And I called the vet late last night, they want me to bring him in before they prescribe him any pain medications.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 26, 2020 11:19:51 GMT -7
Madelilne, call the hospital where you saw an ER vet on 1/24. Wolfie's file is there. That means the current on duty vet at that clinic/hospital can read the file and has license and ability to prescribe without examining. Going to a new vet at a different clinic/hospital (such as when you get back to Chicago) means that vet would have to examine before prescribing any meds since Wolfie would have a disease never examined for by any of the vets at that clinic. -- If the dog was diagnosed with a disc episode, then the SINGLE most important care is the part where the dog stays INSIDE of a recovery suite that restricts movement of the back. Stay in the suite except for being taken out for potty time. Vets who know their IVDD, completely understand this principal. Carting a dog around, transporting them in a vehical to get to a vet visit is potential risk to the healing disc of too much movement and the disruption of the scar tissue trying to form. So even vet visits need to be carefully considered as to what exact benefit they would be that makes the risk of a transport less important. When things can be handled over the phone (such as adjusting pain meds to fully provide pain relief) that is what vet who know their IVDD do. Drastically reduced pain is still not good enough. Pain should be fully control dose right up to the next dose of pain meds. The Meloxicam is an anti-inflammatory and may take 7 to 30 days to rid all the painful swelling. 5 day course of Meloxicam may or may not get rid of all the painful swelling. It is ONLY the test stop of Meloxicam on Jan 29 that will reveal if another course is need + pain meds + famotidine. The full story on how an anti-inflammatory is used with a disc episode is here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmMetal is always an imperious material with dogs that chew and bite through stuff. Wire expen is a good choice. Some dogs are just fine with the plastic pen that are in the baby department or some pet shops offer. Yu know your dog best. You'll need a wire crate when you transport Woolfie back to Chicago. FAMOTIDINENOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html 7.8 lbs. X 0.44mgs famotidine = 3.432 mgs famotidine Round up to 5mgs dose which is one half of a 10mgs Pepcid AC (famotidine) tablet Give 5mgs famotidine every twelve hours. Give Meloxicam with a meal as added protection. Find a egg crate or memory foam to fit the crate bottom or for the expen to wrap around. This info is from our supplies list..check it out for more crate rest helpful tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm__ Bowls: Raised feeding & water bowls that can be attached to ex-pen or a crate. Attach at head height. How to make homemade bowl holder.__ Mattress: Soft firm mattress of some sort:2 inch 4 lb density memory foam mattress to relieve pressure points. NOTE: protect the foam mattress by inserting in a large trash bag and duct taping closed. Tuck in/cover with fleece bottom sheet. www.foambymail.com Check Walmart, etc. for human memory foam bed topper can be cut down and stacked for several recovery suite locations. Egg crate foam is another alternative:http://www.foambymail.com/rectangle-eggcrate-foam-pet-beds.html__ Blankets and change of bedding: 100% synthetic (no cotton) Fleece fabric as a bottom sheet wicks moisture away from skin (have 2-3 on hand) and dries quickly. Inexpensive fleece throw can be cut to sizes at Big Lots, Walgreens 2/$10. You can buy fleece yardage at JoAnn Fabric Store or the like. This is a no-sew project as fleece does not ravel. Layer in this manner: Trash bag enclosed mattress, pee pad*, fleece bottom sheet tucked in all around mattress. *Use human pee pads as they have no scent to encourage peeing. *OPTION to disposable pee pads are reusable waterproof absorbent bed pads: reasonably priced, washable and last a long time. www.allegromedical.com/ ; look for children's disposable bed mats at your grocery store. Cut down the twin size to make several crate size ones.BLADDER CONTROL
Dogs who have bladder control will not like you expressing! Ascertain first if he has bladder control -- does he leak on you when lifted - loss of bladder control -- The only way for humans to know if there is bladder control is with the “sniff and pee test.” Carry outdoors, set them on an old pee spot to sniff when you know he should have to pee. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. See if they will release urine on the old urine area. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is there. Learning how to express, should it be determined he has lost control, needs a hands-on-top-of-your-hands type of expressing lesson. First reading and viewing the video at this page you'll get more out of the lesson: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm UTIs can happen with a few days of not expressing when there has been lost bladder control. The concern is the UTI not move up into the kidneys where is become life threatening. BTW going in for a vet visit with Wolfie for expressing lesson would be due to the REAL benefit of not acquiring an infected bladder (UTI) and the serious nature of UTIs overrides the risk of transport. With urgent vet visits, secure the crate in your vehicle. Transport carefully using a crate padded out with rolled up towels on either side of the dog to prevent movement or jarring the spine when braking or turning corners.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 26, 2020 11:47:02 GMT -7
Madeline,
Reading reference:
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 26, 2020 12:29:06 GMT -7
Update: I did as you asked and called the doctor, she has prescribed him ✙Gabapentin, I will get the exact dosage information after I pick up the medication in an hour.
I gave him the ✙pepcid ac (half a tablet like you said!), and then his meloxicam 30 minutes later.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 7.8 lbs Meloxicam as of 1/24: 0.23mL 1x/day for 5 days, then 1/29 test stop for _pain/_neuro ✙Gabapentin 50mgs/1mL:50mg (1mL dose) 3x/day ✙Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day ]
We will look into getting a dog crate to travel in, and a pen to keep him in while he recovers.
Right now, Wolfie is trying to sleep.
I was able to express his bowels using the q-tip method! So proud it went so well!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 26, 2020 15:38:28 GMT -7
Madeline, kudos to you on your success in advocating for pain meds. Hopefully since Wolfie is having less pain just the one pain med will mask the last bit of pain still existing. Expect in one hour all pain to be masked. If not call back and update on the pain signs you specifically see. Normallly with a disc episode there are three different sources of pain and each source needs masking. - - Tramadol as the general pain reliever. It has a short half life of 1.7 hours and may need to be prescribed at a minimum of every 8 hours. - - Methocarbamol treats painful muscle spasms. Also prescribed every 8 hours. - - Gabapentin for nerve pain. This pain med also every 8 hours. Pretty much a vet would not have time to give all the details about the treatment, the meds, etc.in the short time of a vet visit. So it falls to us owners to be up to speed on IVDD. This allows us to ask the right questions and understand better what the vet is saying. Sometimes it allows one to learn a vet may not be that comfortable in their knowledge of IVDD and the need to find a new vet for Wolfie's IVDD health care team. Highly recommend this terrific page to bone up on IVDD (IVDD 101) over on our Main Website: www.dodgerslist.com/index.htmExpressing for poopThe safest for the delicate tissues of the anus is to avoid the Q-tip method. This method is kind to the thin tissue and gives you the feed back you need when expressing for poop
Timing is key for bowel expressing: Was Wolfie constipated or just a normal firness poop? When you can let us know the gabapentin dose/frequency and if fully out of pain.
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 26, 2020 16:53:23 GMT -7
We have been given ✙ Gabapentin to be delivered orally, every 8 hours. The dosage is 1ml. I am going to give him his first dose after he eats dinner at 6 o'clock (we are on central time). His stool was normal and firm. I'll review the video and the link you gave me. I appreciate the timely replies, helps me feel like I'm not alone in trying to get Wolfie on the road to recovery. Can I mix the Gabapentin with some kind of mushed food? He really struggles and twists his head around when we try to give him oral medicine. I used the peanut butter method in this article and managed to give him his first dose after dinner! My family and I are putting together the money we need to get him surgery. What's the next step, though? The surgeons obviously can't go in blind, but I'm being cautioned not to do an x-ray or MRI because the act of getting the x-ray or MRI may damage Wolfie further? How can they tell where on his spine where the specific issue is?
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 26, 2020 18:24:15 GMT -7
Madeline, look on the bottle to see how many mgs of gabapentin are contained in one mL of liquid. That way we'll know how many mgs of the med gabpentin he takes every 8 hrs. Best to not mix meds in with food as then if he doesn't eat all his dinner, he could be short changed on gabapentin mgs. Sounds like the peanut butter method will be a good one for liquid meds. Likey a surgeon would not want to do a surgery on a dog who has the ability to move one of his back legs but due to the other's weakness finds it a challenge to do walking motions with hind legs. It never hurts to establish your own self insured savings account would a day come with a future disc episode to be ready. You will find this article can bring you up to speed on conservative vs. surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmAs damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. YES Left hind paw Paw knuckles under 3a. ? RIGHT hind paw status? 5. ? Weak/little LEFT leg movement, can't move up into a stand 5a ? RIGHT rear leg status? can move in a walking motion? 6. ? LEFT Leg does not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 6a ? RIGHT rear leg status? 7. NOT YET LOST: Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. NOT YET LOST: Tail wagging with joy is lost when you specifically do some happy talk 9. Deep pain sensation identifed ONLY by a Neuro or Ortho sugeron!. The last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a general DVM vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho for a consultation when bladder control has been lost as the next easily identifable neuro function to go is inability to do a happy tail wag. Then it is time to have the referral in hand to a neuro or an ortho where a $2000+ MRI picture would be taken as a means to plan a maybe $4000+ surgery. No sense doing an MRI if financially a surgery is not an option. Many a dog has healed their nerves with time with the disc being healed with conservative treatment.
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 26, 2020 18:57:34 GMT -7
The only thing on the bottle is the label with instructions, Wolfie's name and the vet's name. I can try to call the vet, to see if they can tell me the dose in mgs?
Bladder control is considered lost when he cannot go without me expressing his bladder and bowels, right? So far the only time he's peed is on some towels while he was laying down.
The problem with number eight on your list is that Wolfie has never been able to wag his tail, not even as a puppy. He can move it up or down depending on his mood, but it, along with his right leg, have always been weak.
The next step is to get a consultation with a neuro or ortho, otherwise just continue with the conservative treatment until he potentially gets worse?
I'm having a little trouble understanding what you mean.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 26, 2020 20:02:14 GMT -7
Madeline, ask the clinic how many mgs of gabapentin are in one mL of liquid. That will give the info necessary to calculate and liquid dose (mL) prescribed such as 1.5mL, 2.0 mL, etc. Overflowing is what a dog does when they have lost bladder control. The body's relfex is triggered when the bladder becomes overfilled. Not the brain, but reflex causes the the bladder's sphincter muscle to open. The problem is reflex can not void all the urine. Quickly the remaining urine in the bladder becomes a breeding ground for bacteria (UTIs). If lifting your dog causes urine to be released on you that is by reflex. The brain would control the bladder not to release any urine til in an appropriate spot (outside). Let us know what you observed when you carrried out the "Sniff and Pee Test" when you think he ought to have to go to the bathroom. Test was explained in a post I made about 8 hrs ago today unter the heading " BLADDER CONTROL" Use your hands to support his hind thighs so he can move abit to smell the old pee spot you set him on in the grass. A sling is used as back up to catch a wobbly dog's butt and prevent twisting the back. Any sling needs to be accompanied by a front harness and leash to control speed to the very slow minimal footsteps at potty time especially during conservative treatment or the post-op crate rest period. A figure 8 DIY sling works especially well for the male dog anatomy at potty times. A front harness is to control Woolfie's speed and desire to maybe dart off. An expen in the grass? Then you do not need harness as the fence lets the dog know there will be no sniff festing nor darting off. If you have the money now and it turns out deep pain sensation has been lost not much longer than 24hrs by the neuro or ortho, then surgery might proceed. Since Woolfie has had tail leg issues making it difficult now to easily interpret where he is neurologically, a consult (if you have the money now in hand) with a neuro or ortho could be in order to be in the 12-24 hours window from the loss of DPS. If you don't have the means for a surgery, then there is no use in getting an MRI. It makes no difference to know which disc with conservative treatment. All the discs get limited movement of the spine. The one that is damaged will use those 8 weeks to form strong scar tissue. Surgery only treats the compression problem by removing the offending disc material pressing on the spinal cord causing nerves to loose function. Surgery does not heal nerves. Conservative treatment does not heal nerves.There are no meds nor treatments to heal nerves. The body has the ability to self heal nerves with time whether with a surgery or under conservative treatment. heals nerves. Think in terms of months rather than days/weeks for this slowest part of the body to heal and bring back as much nerve function as possible. Part of the healing that goes on in conservative treatment is the body's natural response to contusion. In addition an anti-inflammatory drug is also prescribed to reduce compression from swollen tissues in the spinal cord area. Often with time the disc material may also be able to be reabsorbed/shrink back enough to no longer press on the cord and aggravate it. The body does this by breaking down the herniated material by a process called phagocytosis. This relieves the compression on the spinal cord. There are no meds nor treatments to heal nerves. The body has the ability to self heal nerves with time whether with a surgery or under conservative treatment. Meds are used to provide comfort from pain, protect the GI tract, and help the body reduce painful inflammation. Please do explore further — all of the comparisons to help you discuss, ask questions and sort out a surgery or conservative treatment approach: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 26, 2020 21:40:12 GMT -7
Spoke to the clinic! There are 50mgs per 1ml of gabapentin.
They also gave me the number to the Missouri Veterinary Training Center (I may have the name wrong, but I wrote the number down somewhere), which is where they send all patients needing neurosurgery. I will call tomorrow and see if it cost anything to get a consultation. I won't pursue the surgery/MRI route until we have the money for it. I'll see what kind of prices I can get from the training center. Would this crate be acceptable for Wolfie's recovery process? He is not a chewer, and I tried to find something that would open from the top also (as seen here). I will work on getting him a sling. Tomorrow morning, I'll take him outside to potty in his usual spots, see if he still has bladder control. Thank you again for being so helpful and supportive. It's been a long three days with very little sleep. Wolfie is doing much better after the gabapentin. He's sleeping well. His feet are twitching in his dreams (even his back feet, though one better than the other!), which warms my heart.
|
|
|
Post by Judy & Vesper on Jan 26, 2020 23:41:26 GMT -7
Hi there Madeline, its seems you are right on track regarding Wolfies' treatment. The crate should be fine as long as when he is in it it is stable. Dealing with Ivdd is quite daunting in the beginning. Once you get into the flow of things it gets better. A daily schedule will help you both. And please remember o be kind to yourself as well. Take breaks and do normal stuff like having tea and reading a book. I found these articles quite helpful in how to introduce your dog to a crate therehabvet.com/2017/04/introducing-your-dog-to-the-recovery-crate/ as well as www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm"Entertainment Place the crate near a window with a view, on the coffee table in front of couch where you sit. Place the crate so the dog will be in the middle of family activities, near your bed at night. Secure crate to a flat moving dolly (or put casters on plywood) to easily move the crate room to room. Fill a kong with a slight slather of soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube." There are a lot of helpful hints in both these articles to make you Wolfies crate stay easier. I hope you find it informative.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jan 27, 2020 6:27:37 GMT -7
Madeline, you can get a wire crate at a much cheaper price than the one you gave a link to. A wire crate can be converted to open from the top - here's how: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/cratetopconvert.pdf Some members have found an ex-pen to make an excellent recovery suite. The recovery suite should only be large enough for Wolfie to stand up, turn around and lie down with his legs comfortably extended. Any extra space should be filled in with rolled up towels/blankets. A long scarf, ace bandage, belt, rolled up towel can be used as a sling. I do hope that the sniff and pee test will show that Wolfie still has bladder control so you have proof that he still has deep pain sensation. If the sniff and pee test proves that Wolfie still has deep pain sensation and now that his pain is under control, he would be a good candidate to proceed with conservative care.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 27, 2020 10:03:37 GMT -7
Madeline, the brain is where dreams happen. Thus if he was dreaming and then the back legs started to move, that happened because the brain's dream sent a message down to the back legs. Likely Wolfie probably still has deep pain sensation. From our supplies list (do follow the link for ALL the helpful tips in doing crate rest ( www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm ) ---Add crate casters to wheel from room to room. Available from local pet shops, or here is just one of on-line vendors A consultation with a specialist can run somewhere around $200, maybe a bit less. For how many days Meloxicam is to be used? This is important to know the number of days in the Meloxicam presceription ( such as a 7-day, maybe a 14-day course). When the course ends that will be the test to find out if Meloxicam completed its job. You will want to be prepared ahaead of time in knowing what your job will be. This is excellent reading on that topic: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 27, 2020 10:08:36 GMT -7
Had a terrifying morning. Woke up to Wolfie harking and barfing up some of his kibble (we overdid it with the peanut butter, getting him to take two different medications). I was concerned he'd choke so I immediately scrambled out of bed and tried to lift him up - but I SCARED HIM instead. He started thrashing around, and he was so scared he pooped. In the midst of his thrashing he saw me and went so still I was terrified he'd paralyzed himself. We carefully set him on his side and he just laid there breathing and processing, and shaking. After a little while, we were able to give him some water, and he was able to sit up without assistance (while laying down) Used a dab of coconut oil on a spoon (his favorite thing!) to inject the medicine into his mouth, after he refused the gabapentin-covered apple bits we tried to feed him instead. (He's currently trying to rest, seems like the medicine kicked in) I called the emergency clinic again to confirm some of the information I've been given here (the pepcid ac, the 8 weeks of crate rest), and also got referred to Veterinary Specialty Services, who were able to give me more information and support. Wolfie has a consultation with an orthopedic surgeon at Veterinary Specialty Services on the 14th of February. We're going to keep him on his current medication [? ?], though VSS suggested I ask the emergency clinic about possibly putting him on a steroid instead of the meloxicam. The c onsultation is just to see if we should continue with the eight weeks of conservative treatment or if we should consider getting surgery done.We have not done the pee and sniff test yet. Truthfully, I don't have a sling yet and I am so terrified to move him now. He's trained to go on pee pads, but we threw out his used ones before this started on Friday. To do the pee and sniff test, I need to carry him downstairs and outside to the grass. But I'm worried about all that movement. I'm so scared to make him worse. Replying to Paula's Question: he was given 5 days of meloxicam. When my nerves settle down, should I call the clinc to get another prescription for meloxicam? Or should I ask about the steroid? We have enough money to cover the specialist [consultation], and they're only 30 minutes away. Thank you everyone for the links and the support. I'll look over everything.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 27, 2020 11:36:44 GMT -7
Madeline, how scary all that thrashing, etc. Please keep us updated as the day continues on that Wolfie dodged the bullet of a disc relapse. That is his pain might increase if the disc re-tore. His neuro functions could have gone downhill, more diminishment. I understand witih his issues this could be hard to discern. Meloxicam Test stop on Jan 29 (QUESTION: Meloxicam + meds have been extended til Feb 13th? ?)A five day course of Meloxicam is a short one and perhaps not likely to have yet fully resolved all painful swelling by Wed, Jan 29. The best time to start a steroid is within hours of identifying neuro loss with a disc episode. Before there is death of nerve that make self healing a long process of perhaps months, the steroid can have the ability to turn around that neuro diminishment. I have seen this with my own eyes for my dogs and my vet confirmed that is the case. Now it has been 5 days of the neuro diminishment of knuckling (also not clear to what extent his neuro dimishment actual is due to his other issues), the steroid would be quite a consideration as to the benefit VS risk to the GI tract, washout ,etc.. Other times there can be a need to move to the more powerful class the steroid class is if there is pain that is very difficult even with max pain meds on board — but this is not the issue with Wolfie. Best you bone up on NSAIDs vs Steroids so you are able to join in discussion with vet and ask the pertinent questions. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm These powerhouse meds do wonders OR they can be dangerous. Vets who practice safe medicine and owners up to speed on medications make all the difference. Did you get all four questions right? Now you know Wolfe has a 5-day course of Meloxicam AND gabapentin was only just added on Sun 1/26 making is likely unrealistic to expect all the swelling to be gone. Discuss with the vet about whether is is a good idea to be stopping Meloxicam on 1/29. Should there like be another course, maybe an other short 5-day course plus pain meds to last. Or does the vet want to go ahead and find out if all the swelling might be gone. Most vets try a 7-14 day course for a disc episode. IF the stop is going ahead as scheduled on 1/29, have you prepared yourself on your job at home, what to monitor for, which your vet prefers at the stop of Meloxicam re: pain meds, do you have a plan B if pain would surface at night when vet is not open? --- Which does your vet prefer full stop of the pain masking pain meds on 1/29 or... --- backing off of the pain meds at the same time that Meloxicam is stopped on 1/29.
Sniff and pee test. Use a belt, long piece of fabric, a winter scarf as a rear end sling. Because Wolfie is trained to use a pee pad, going outdoors is not a must. He knows it is is ok to pee in the house (but only on the pee pad).
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 27, 2020 12:12:20 GMT -7
Small update. I believe Wolfie still has a little stomach upset. He didn't want his kibble this morning, but he happily accepted a piece of egg from my dad's breakfast.
I want to make sure he keeps eating. What are some safe, plain foods I can give him in place of kibble for a day or two?
Unsweetened applesauce? White or brown rice? Chicken broth?
Had another peeing incident (dog suddenly restless, trying to move around, then soils his bedding). Again, didnt get the chance to do the sniff and pee test or express his bladder, we were focused on managing his pain this morning.
He seems much calmer now. We had a pee pad underneath his towels, so it caught some of the urine. I kept the pad and there's plenty of room for him to use it again. I'll try the sniff and pee test after he's rested and eaten.
Steroid or NSAID: given what I've read, I think Wolfie should stay on his meloxicam and Gabapentin until his consultation on the 14th. He hasnt had any bloodwork done, so I dont know if putting him on a steroid is truly safe. I'll call the vet today to get another prescription for meloxicam to last him.
Does it come in tablet form? Wolfie is NOT a fan of liquid medication.
I am going to keep a close eye on his back paws when he dreams. It's my best indicator that he has feeling and sensation there.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 27, 2020 13:11:37 GMT -7
Madeline, easier to digest things have little to no fat/oil in them. Small amounts and more frequently. So you can see how his tummy accepts the food then an hour or two later another small amount. A good choice that has nutrients is a microwaved and mashed sweet pototato with defated chicken broth you'd make yourself. (Dogs do not digest rice well and not very much in the way of nutrition in rice). Boil up a chicken part (couple of wings or a thigh or a drumstick) with bone with a teaspoon of lemon juice or vineagr to leach the goodies out of the bones. When cool remove disc fat at top and trash the bones and fatty skin. What is left is jelly like bone broth that the watery boxed broth in the stores do not offer. You can serve it over the mashed taters warmed a bit. For dosing his liquid med, do you have a simple syringe you can slip inside of his cheek to dispense the one mL (approx 2/10 of a teaspoon) and forgo coconut oil, and other fatty substances? All oral pill can be compounded such as was done with the gabapentin to be in liquid form. All meds have side effects. All anti-inflammatory (NSAIDS or sterods) then have side effects. The safety in meds is a vet who uses the in a safe manner such as getting a bloodpanel to know health of organs to take NSAIDs or steroids) The other important safety factor is owner knowledge of each med their dog takes. I reallly LOVE this vet's drug directory for looking up all my dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pmlIt seems a good idea to discuss the pros and cons of two options with your vet : 1) Perhaps another course of Meloxicam, a short one of maybe a 5-day or 7 day course for a non-senior dog. In light of just getting gabapentin on board 1/26, it could well be unrealistic to count on all swelling to be gone. 2) or since 5.5 year old Wolfie has not had a blood test to check his organ health should the Meloxicam go ahead and be tested with a stop on 1/29 plus a full stop of the gabapentin 1/29 to provide a very quick access as to whether pain is still there and then knowing for sure if another Meloxicam course would then be definately in order. Let us know how the sniff and pee test goes later in the day and also how Wolfie is feeling/doing since all that trashing around this am.
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 27, 2020 15:58:39 GMT -7
I am really happy to report that after a nice 2 hour nap (he moved his back feet around a bit! Getting comfortable!), he ate his kibble and the pepcid AC half-tablet I gave him at 4PM. Even more excitingly, I saw he seemed a little fidgety, so I brought him over to his puppy pad, and he IMMEDIATELY pooped. I think this means he still has bladder control? I'm not sure how to get him to pee yet (I'll likely have to bring him to a vet to teach me to express his bladder), when he pees, he squats down. Always has, because of his weaker right leg. But when we set him down his feet kinda bunch together, both because his knees make them turn in, and I don't think he feels comfortable peeing like that. I think he wants to squad like usual, he just can't get his body to cooperate. About the Medication: YES we have a syringe, we've been using the peanut butter technique but with coconut oil instead. Wolfie hates it every time the syringe gets near his face, and I worry without some sort of distraction, he'll hurt himself trying to get free. He seems alert and responsive and relaxed right now, which is so, so good. Further good news! I pinched the skin between Wolfie's toes on his lame foot, and he pulled it away from me while giving me SUCH a look. He clearly thought my little test was VERY unnecessary.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 27, 2020 19:08:25 GMT -7
Madeline, using his back legs to attempt to move around is a good sign that nerve function is coming back. The reason to not pinch his paws is for the same reason we say only take the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or orth (ACVS) about the the last neuro function called deep pain sensation. Most DVM who give the neuro test for deep pain sensation very often do not correctly identify it. So you are not likely to learn anything new yourself, but may accidently cause Woolfie too much movement to his back. Since it appears Woolfie can move his back legs during a dream, it would go without saying then in order to do that he would of course already have deep pain sensation. It is a little bit difficult to confirm bowel control. Often dogs do not sniff before a poop. Still wanting you to observe what he does with pee. Maybe wanting to circle, maybe sniff an old pee spot AND THEN urine is released is what you would wish to see in order to confirm bladder control. --- do you have a long narrow piece of fabric. Cut two holes wide enough apart for his legs. Then the fabric should be long enough for you to stand and be able to hold on to the two ends. Notice how the long scarf can be held by the person. And the sling can be relaxed when the dog attempts to lower their body to release urine.
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 28, 2020 9:28:40 GMT -7
Based on the information provided, I am going to talk to Wolfie's ER vet about extending his dosage of meloxicam for a total of 7 days. I want to give it the chance to work with the gabapentin, which he only just got. Right now (2AM), with about an hour to go before his next gabapentin dosage, he seems restless. What is the safest maximum dosage of gabapentin for a 7.8lb dog? I want to be very vigilant about his medications and make sure he's getting enough. (It is now 2:39AM and he has since gotten comfortable enough to start snoring) I have found a scarf to use as a sling (until I get some fabric to make a better one). Wolfie doesn't like that at all. The first time we put a harness on him as a puppy, he refused to move. I think it's going to take a few more days before he gets comfortable with it enough to behave normally (sniff around, circle and pee). I don't think he enjoys being picked up, even when the pain meds are kicked in. When I set him on his pads, he looks longingly at the dining room table (even tries to take a few steps toward it), which he liked to sleep under and basically used as his den. What my tentative plan is to keep him on crate rest (going to order one this week!) and medication until his February 14th appointment, then I can get some guidance on the next step from the ortho surgeon. In the meantime, I really want to take him back to the ER clinic for a lesson on expression AND to get bloodwork done. I did not realize he should have had it done before starting meloxicam. I really want to give the ortho surgeon as much information about Wolfie's health as they could possibly need to help him. If he ends up being prescribed meloxicam in the long term based on the ortho's consultation, I want to be prepared. Wolfie has struggled with crate training in the past, directly related to separation anxiety. I want to look into those calming pheromone releasers? I can't remember the name. If anyone has any helpful articles on that, I would appreciate links. He's never liked his crate, so I know he's going to struggle with these 8 weeks of crate rest unless I take precautions. One last question: is it okay to wake him up for a dosage of gabapentin, even if he seems comfortable? I want him to rest, but I don't like the idea of skipping doses. -------------------------- Update on Wolfie this morning. Woke up at 10AM, he seemed a little restless and was sitting up. I gave him his half of pepcid ac (30 minutes before the meloxicam, right?), then brought him over to his pads. He made kind of an awkward half-circle and pooped. His tail was flexing and shifting and I could see his anus flexing to push out the poop. Because of his knees, he's having trouble figuring out a way to crouch, and won't simply pee standing up. I'm trying to figure out the best position for him, but I don't want to manipulate his legs if it isn't absolutely necessary. Wolfie just ate breakfast (no appetite issues here!) and now he's spread out, dozing until I give him his meloxicam in a few minutes, and gabapentin 30 minutes after that. This will be his last dosage of meloxicam. I am going to call the vet after I get feedback from the forum on my decision.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,805
Member is Online
|
Post by PaulaM on Jan 28, 2020 9:50:27 GMT -7
Madeline, is there an old towel, pillow case, maybe old sheet in the scrapbag. Then you would be able to rip or cut a long strip of the fabric. Two holes for spaced apart where each back leg would go in. Below is what you are aiming for. Most male dogs do not like a belly band because it is too near or even touching their penis. The Figure 8 sling with a picture posted on Jan 26 (scoll back up to view it) or the long strip of fabric with two leg holes is much preferred by males at potty time. ----------------------------------------------------- O O ----------------------------------------------------- Keep your ER vet updated on your specific observations when you are concerned or have a suspicion might be pain signs. The vet can't know how his Rx's are working or not working without your eyes and ear to report stuff to him. There are no "safe" medicines. The safety factor comes with a vet who uses drugs in a safe manner and calls for a blood panel test to see the health of organs. The other huge safety factor are the owners to read up on each of their pet's meds. They learn what benefit is to be expected, what the serious adverse side effects are to be on top of vs side effects that might normally come with a med. And what other meds would be contra-indicated. Personally, I love the Mar Vista Veterinary website for their drug directory: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pmlYou may not have to order a wire crate +shipping, have you priced the ones at shops in town? IF if Meloxicam were to be extended by your vet for say another 7-day course, that would mean the test stop date would fall about Feb 5. And of course the hope would be to see no pain surfacing. So then Woolfie would not kept any med until Feb 14th. In fact if all pain is really gone, then you know that conservative treatment works and really not a need to keep that Feb 14th ortho appointment. CALMERSUsing any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives (ACE, alprazolam or trazodone). Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog.
Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is: --DOG Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/
Use DAP diffusor with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php DOSING FREQUENCYNurses in hospitals wake their patients in the middle of the night for meds. You are Woolfie's nurse. Give meds promptly on time and observe that no sign of pain appears from one dose of meds right up to the next dose. Readings: Meloxicam's only purpose is to get the painful swellling gone. No one knows how long a course to prescribed. It takes in the range of 7 to 30 days to resolve swelling. So a vet must simply take a guess at how long a course to try initially. Some try a 5-7 day course some a longer course. The stop of Meloxicam after finishing the course tells the true story whether the swelling is really gone or if another Meloxicam course is needed. At the stop of Meloxicam the pain meds that blindfold you in observing for pain are either full stopped or backed off.
So you need to call the ER vet. Update him on your observations of how is he acting, nearing next dose of pain meds, when he has to move such as at potty time. Remind him that gabapentin was started on 1/26. Then the vet can best decide if to go ahead with test stop or provide another course added on. Let us know what options you and the vet discuss and what was finally decided regarding med if any tomorrow, 1/29.
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 28, 2020 12:00:09 GMT -7
I have improvised a sling for him out of a tank top (his legs go through the loops) and that is what I used for him to have a bowel movement this morning.
I called the ER clinic. The ER vet was not in. They also do not perform bloodwork as they are not a routine veterinary service center. I called Veterinary Specialty Services where he has his consultation scheduled, and they referred me to a local vet right here in the city of St Louis.
I called the local vet, he has an appointment to be seen at 2PM tomorrow. It is a 10 minute car ride to the vet's office.
I think the ER vet has done all she can for us. We need a regular vet willing to work with us on Wolfie's IVDD recovery. Tomorrow, my plan is to see Wolfie's vet and discuss the following:
If meloxicam is necessary If they feel the consultation on the 14th is necessary Adaptil & oral calmers Getting bloodwork done
Also the reason we are ordering a crate rather than buying one at a local petsmart/petco. We are not comfortable cutting the wire bars on the crate. The crate I am ordering instead has a door that opens on the top (and two other doors).
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 28, 2020 14:23:34 GMT -7
Making a sling out of a tank top sounds like a smart idea.
It is good to have a regular vet to work with you through the course of Wolfie's recovery. If you are comfortable with the way your local vet is treating Wofie, meaning willing to prescribe the meds needed to keep his pain under control and has an understanding of how conservative treatment works, you may not need to see a specialist. Although seeing a specialist always remains an option for you.
A customized crate with multiple doors should make it easy to move Wolfie in and out for potty time and cleanup. If it is too large, simply pad the excess space with rolled up towels.
Please keep us up to date as to what the vet says.
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 28, 2020 21:32:20 GMT -7
My fingers are crossed that he won't need surgery. I will give you guys an update as soon as we're back from the vet. reporting good news, we have Wolfie pooping on the pads regularly now. Tonight, Dad walked by him while he was on the pads, and his back legs moved, like softly pedaled in the air when I held up his back end with the sling. I think he's comfortable pooping with the sling, still need to work out the peeing issue. His disc issue may be in his neck, or he doesn't like to feel off balance, so that may be why he doesn't like leaning his head down to sniff his old pee spots? Just a guess. I'll keep watching him closely. SO happy to report that Wolfie passed the sniff and pee test! (I also bribed him with the promise of a dab of coconut oil if he peed) He drank out of his water bowl for a while, and then we brought him over to the pads. He walked around, sniffed around, and finally peed! I think he finally got comfortable with the sling! He doesn't enjoy being picked up, though. Even when he wants to. His limbs stiffen up and his eyes get wide. Do you think he's in pain? Is there anything I can do? Thinking back though, ever since he's hit a certain weight, grunted and stiffened his legs out when he's picked up. Once he can get regular exercise, I'm going to get his weight under control.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Jan 29, 2020 6:24:48 GMT -7
Such wonderful news that Wolfie has bladder control, Madeline! So very glad to hear it. That, coupled with the movement of back legs, is a good indication that you're on the right path with conservative care. Any vet at the ER should be able to pull Wolfie's records and give direction as to meds, it doesn't have to be the exact same vet who originally saw Wolfie. If you can get direction as to meds from them, then it wouldn't be necessary to transport Wolfie to a new vet today and risk too much movement of the spine. A test stop of all meds may indicate that the compression of the spine has resolved at this point, Meloxicam may have already done its job and no more meds would be needed (proved by no sign of pain). If there is still pain, then the meds would be needed for a bit longer. As for signs of pain, if this is something Wolfie has previously done when picked up, then it's most likely not a sign of pain. You would need to find a second sign of pain to confirm. If you believe this might be a neck injury, there are some things that you can do to help a neck injury heal and it wouldn't hurt to them in the event this isn't a neck injury - more info here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm
|
|
|
Post by Madeline & Wolfie on Jan 29, 2020 8:21:54 GMT -7
I actually had the ER clinic consult with another vet there, but they weren't comfortable prescribing more medicine without having seen him personally.
For security reasons they could not tell me when the ER vet who looked at him would be back in.
I don't want to leave him stranded without any medication if the test stop doesn't work [by having a new vet.]
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 29, 2020 14:33:08 GMT -7
If transporting an IVDD dog can be avoided it should be. All vets in a clinic should have access to Wolfie's records and based on the records should be able to adjust medication. The clinic also seem to be taking security to a new level. How can you make an appointment with a vet when you do not know when they will be in the clinic? Maybe if you have to transport Wolfie because the other vet won't adjust the meds based on the records, a new vet should be considered. This article shows what to look for in a Vet that treats IVDD. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm
|
|