Linda & Max
New Member
M - Dachshund Pancreatisis 2016
Posts: 21
|
Post by Linda & Max on Feb 11, 2019 8:27:12 GMT -7
It is worth a shot... I will order something in and try this setup... Thanks for sharing! :-)
|
|
|
Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 11, 2019 8:29:41 GMT -7
Linda, I know it's tough. My sister's always telling me, if you don't take care of yourself there won't be anyone to take care of your animals. Love Paula's tip.
|
|
Linda & Max
New Member
M - Dachshund Pancreatisis 2016
Posts: 21
|
Post by Linda & Max on Feb 25, 2019 10:26:55 GMT -7
I was planning on posting a 'half way there, going so well' message today, but yesterday Max could not stand up and I had to call the vet who was wonderful enough to come to me so I did not have to get Max into a car and into a practice (and she offered to do that on a Sunday!). Max showed delayed reflexes but they were still there. So we got him on 20mg of prednoral (once daily) and 25mg of Tramadol (up to four times a day) as of Feb 24. Max is now 21 LBS.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify] 21 lbs Dex injection on 1/6 Prednoral (prednisone) as of 1/16: 10mg 1x/day for 14 days then 1/30 tapering to test for pain/neuro issue as of 2/20: 20 mgs 1x/day for 3 days • ortho manipulation on 1/18! • increase neuro diminishment 2/18, 24 due to struggling at potty times tramadol (100mg tab): 25mgs 4x/day Omeprazole 5mgs 1x/day]
He was able to support himself this morning but not this afternoon so an earlier dose of the prednoral and a phone call to the vet. Keep it up for 3 days, see how things progress, but then consider the quality of life if he cannot beat this hernia. He does not like the crate, but accepted it. To have to start again from scratch for another 8 weeks is making me wonder what I am doing to him. And with what guarantee? I was diagnosed with a burnout last week myself so I know that I am spiraling. I want him to live, but not so I can keep him. I was finally starting to breathe again and trust he would make it, then this happens. I really don't know what is the best thing for him now. I will note that he is in no apparent pain. He did snap at the vet yesterday during examination but other than that he has not been trembling or shaking. He is eating and he is calm.
I was feeling so bad for all those owners who saw their beloved four legged family members get worse again and now I am one of them. I had it four times where Max relapsed after doing better during a four month period in 2017 and now we seem to be back there. When does one stop?
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 25, 2019 15:08:14 GMT -7
Jeesh, Linda, I am sorry to hear you have to contend with a vet not on Max' side to help him heal and implying you should think of putting him to sleep. PLEASE, do what you can to tell her you do not want to hear unhelpful advise. Either ignore anything this vet suggests that is not helpful or find a new vet who know more about IVDD. Believe me it is like night and day to work with a vet who knows IVDD where you are supported in helping Max.
There was a cause to what you've indicated is a worsening of neuro function from when you last wrote. Is there anything you can pinpoint that might have caused too much movement to the early healing disc (any ortho manipulations, any extra movement at potty time w/new pen-crate setup?, being too rambuctious in the recovery suite). Being suspicious of the cause, can help design a solution to prevent in the future.
Normally prednisone is given in a divided dose morning and evenings (not the entire dose once a day) Can you discuss with the vet about going to an anti-inflammatory level dose of 5mgs pred every 12 hrs in line for a 21lbs/9.53kg dog and typical for use with a disc episode? The 20mg dose once a day is a VERY high dose meaning putting Max' GI tract at a higher level of risk and not a typical use with a disc episode. Do you have Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board in light the extra GI tract damage risk? It is important to get his tummy properly protected. Let us know Puur Stomac has ceased? How often do you actually give tramdol 25mgs?
|
|
Linda & Max
New Member
M - Dachshund Pancreatisis 2016
Posts: 21
|
Post by Linda & Max on Feb 26, 2019 7:26:12 GMT -7
Thanks Paula, he is getting 25mg tramadol 4 times daily. No more puur stomach.i am giving him 5mg omeprazole.
My vet knows how far I went with my terrier before and also when max had hernias two years ago. She was not advising me, she was telling me to prepare for the fact that max might not beat this hernia. If the swelling won't go away with the meds, what do i decide?
I would like to ask about superficial breathing and sudden cries. I sat with max for four hours last night while he made noises while breathing, almost whistling, and other sounds that might have been cried of pain but he would just have this empty look and shallow breathing. And panting as well. He also wanted water and I know that is because of the meds. It was a restless night. Today he just doesn't move and is unresponsive. Same shallow breathing.i ask him to go on potty breaks and he just stares so I leave him...
The only change in the last week was that I let him out once at night and he suddenly noticed a cat and made a sudden move but that was days ago. Also I have held him on Monday Feb 18 when someone passed by our house and he was struggling to be let go of. This was during potty break but I had him in my arms. He did struggle. Perhaps that is when he hurt himself again.
I also had to lift him back down (belly up) yesterday when I had to take him out and he struggled as well but he was already unable to stand when that happened. That is why I am not forcing him out today. No more struggles.
|
|
|
Post by Merriem & Spike on Feb 26, 2019 7:49:16 GMT -7
I am really sorry to read that your baby is having a relapse. I know we all worry about this. However just try and hang in there. You are getting some great advice on the board. Just wanted to send kind thoughts your way.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 26, 2019 9:33:24 GMT -7
Linda, it does sound like Max is in pain because he is being WAY, WAY under medicated with pain meds! And it may well be too much movement of recent struggling, caused a retear in the early healing disc scar tissue. You and the vet need evidence that all is being done to get pain in control--- it is a MUST to rule out other disease that an actual max analgesic has been given with this re-tear. Can you call and very strongly advocate that each of the 3 sources of pain be covered? ---1. Tramadol is the general analgesic. The 4x/day is a very tough schedule regarding you as the care giver's sleep! Better is to actually use the MAX ANALGESIC dose every 8 hrs! See how successful you can be about getting tramadol changed with the vet: This info is not for you to adjust meds but as a basis for being able to talk with your vet. A 21lbs/9.53kg dog would be in the neighborhood of 95mg every 8 hrs. --- 2. gabapentin covers the sources of nerve pain. It is also used every 8 hours to provide round the clock coverage.
--- 3. methocarbamol addresses the type of pain that comes from muscle contractions. Also used every 8 hrs.
Are you still considering a pen around the crate to be used as a potty place. This is to eliminate you needing to lift/pick him up?
|
|
Linda & Max
New Member
M - Dachshund Pancreatisis 2016
Posts: 21
|
Post by Linda & Max on Feb 26, 2019 10:50:46 GMT -7
Honestly, two years ago I did the best I could. And now I have a good friend to thank for all this additional information because she pointed me to you.
So I am under medicating Max and he is suffering. Knowing this I can make different decisions, take better care of him. I am going to call the vet but I already went on 2x5mg prednoral and he can stand so not getting worse. I do recognize the other medications, maybe he got them after surgery but I have none left. I have metacam but that is it.
Max just went potty and he stood. I helped support him and lifted him straight after. He was wet from the urine so I will clean him up. He is in the crate. He is not protesting, he seems so far away today though. If that is pain, then I feel terrible for not noticing it. I thought the panting and licking, heavy breathing and smacking were side effects of Tramadol. If anything I thought I overdosed him!
Hanging in there, at least he did pee on his own, with my support but still.. He could have done it alone. Such a brave little boy he is. I hope he has a better night. I will give him 100 mg prior to going to sleep, 8 hours after his last dose, combined with 5mg prednoral, 12 hours after his last dose.
O and I am managing with lifting him. I guess when you must, you simply do. My pain has been manageable. Max will pee anywhere, but not when instructed. Not with pee from my other dog, not with his own, he is just stubborn so I am okay to take him outside.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 26, 2019 11:44:35 GMT -7
Linda, maybe I did not make it clear. YOU should not ever be changing meds on your own. That is the vet's job to prescribe. Your job is to report the signs of pain you observe and then advocate that the vet adjust the pain meds. You do not necessirly know all the meds that should not be used in high doses, nor which ones do not go together, nor if with Max' disease what meds are best for him. We, also do not know these things.
So DO NOT adjust Max meds by your self. PHONE your vet report signs of pain and do your best to present the idea of adjusting pain meds.Find out if a lower, more typical anti-inflammatory level of prednisone rather such a high level used for other diseases are possible.
Did the vet tell you to go to Pred at 5mgs 2x/day (down from the reported 20 mgs 2x/day???) --What date was pred reduced to 5mgs 2x/day? --For how many days is he to take 5mgs 2x/day?
Pred is one med you NEVER, EVER want to mess with. This is a hormone that regulated life giving body processes. ALWAYs follow what the vet prescribed. Your job is to advocate and present reasons or concerns if you want meds adjusted.
We are really lost when we do not have a date to go with changes or in use of meds (mgs and frequency)
|
|
Linda & Max
New Member
M - Dachshund Pancreatisis 2016
Posts: 21
|
Post by Linda & Max on Feb 28, 2019 6:56:42 GMT -7
I have been in daily contact with the vet since my last post. But pain meds and pred were not enough to keep him comfortable/reduce the swelling. Since yesterday he was paralyzed and a shot of dex could not help him and he was in agony this morning. Rest was not enough for him to recover and this morning I decided to let him go. I did discuss options but letting him go was the best one for him considering his condition and medical history. Max was never the same after the first surgery. He had acupuncture and hydrotherapy to keep him going but this 5th hernia would have required another surgery and I did not want that for him. I was tempted, but the vet also told me I would be pushing it and it would not be in his best interest. I hope these words don't upset anyone. I really did try and this forum helped. My heart is broken right now as I see him all over the house and then his empty crate..
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 28, 2019 8:41:04 GMT -7
Linda, I am so sorry to hear your heartbreaking news. I am so sad that things did not turn out differently for you and Max.
|
|
Linda & Max
New Member
M - Dachshund Pancreatisis 2016
Posts: 21
|
Post by Linda & Max on Feb 28, 2019 8:59:32 GMT -7
Thank you Paula, I so wish he would have made it. I would have done anything. I did read the messages and I never changed the medication without consulting my vet. Everything you and everyone else told me, has helped with his care. He was my everything and I would have given anything to keep him. But sometimes, you just can't... He was just too young...
|
|
|
Post by Merriem & Spike on Feb 28, 2019 11:23:48 GMT -7
So sorry to read this. Sending warm thoughts to you.
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 28, 2019 13:57:46 GMT -7
I am very sorry for your loss of sweet Max. My deepest condolences.
|
|