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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 11:20:15 GMT -7
My sweet dog's name is Bo, and he is a standard red short haired dachshund. Today (July 19) is Bo's birthday. He is 7 years old. Wednesday morning I let Bo out of his crate to go potty, and an hour later he ran back in there and refused to come out. When I reached in to touch him I immediately noticed his back and stomach was rock hard and spasming. I decided to wait to see if he would improve, and by the next morning he could barely walk when I tried to take him potty. I immediately called the vet, and within a couple hours he could no longer use his back legs. I knew doxies were at high risk of back problems, but did not know much about IVDD. Yesterday, the vet diagnosed him with IVDD and suggested surgery for the paralysis. He does still have deep tissue sensation in his legs and perineal. I balled my eyes out. We cannot afford surgery. He also said we could try medications and crate rest for a minimum of 8 weeks, but his recovery rate is much lower. I cried so much yesterday. I also have to drain his bladder, which has been a challenge learning to do. I have two young children (3yrs and 11 month old), which also makes caring for sweet Bo difficult. The crate rest and medications started yesterday afternoon (7/18/2013). He is on Tramadol 12.5mg every 6-8 hours for pain, Prednisolone - 5mg 2 x a day for 5 days, 1 x a day for 20 days, then every other day, and Robaxin 125mg every 6-8 hours. When Bo is on his medications he does not experience pain or shivering anymore, but as they begin to wear off the shivering or muscle spasms, and pain return.  Bo is currently unable to use his back legs at all, but is able to still feel in them. I have to express his bladder and I occasionally will find a little wetness under him, but I am trying to express his bladder every couple hours because he is on steriods and I know it increases urination to try and prevent an over full bladder. I am really struggling with knowing if I am emptying his bladder all the way. I am terrified of him getting a bladder infection because I am doing something wrong. I also worry everytime I pick him up that I may not be supporting him enough even though the vet showed me how to do it. Right now, Bo drinks well and will eat chicken, fruits, pumpkin, and other bland stuff but I cannot get him to eat dog food at all. Any suggestions? He is urinating and pooping ok at this point, and both look normal colored. His stools are on the soft side, and he keeps pooping in his crate. -Rhema |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 19, 2013 11:57:34 GMT -7
Hi Rhema, my name is Maureen - Welcome to Dodgers List. I am so sorry that Bo is going through an IVDD episode. Conservative treatment is a perfectly reasonable path of treatment and no one, not even a neurologist, can tell you how well any dog will recover - surgery or not! 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help Bo- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. The crate is the only surface that is firm, supportive for the spine, not inclining, always horizontal and keeps a dog from darting off at a TV doorbell and safe. The rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm The purpose of crate rest is to act as a cast of sorts to let the disc heal… only limited movement of STRICT crate rest allows that to happen…there are no meds to heal a disc. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. Here is a great place to start tyour reading - becoming a reader is going to be yours and Bo's best defense against this disease. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmYou should contact your Vet about Bo's pain control - he should not be hurting at all, and if he is showing signs of pain as you approach his next does of pain medication, then it needs to increased in dose or frequency. He also needs Pepcid to protect his stomach from the steroids. You can buy this at the drug store over the counter. We follow proactive vets and give our approx 13-20 lbs doxies 5mg 30 mins prior to Prednisone. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" Try not to despair - you are not alone anymore and we will do everything that we can to help you. Keeping you in thought and prayer  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 12:23:24 GMT -7
Hi Maureen, Thanks for the info. I forgot to add that he is on pepcid! He is in his crate 24/7 except when I take him to potty, which I don't let him scoot, or anything. I express his bladder and put him back into crate. I noticed that his stools are really really soft. Could it be from the medication? Also, his anus is starting to bleed. Blood is not in his poop. I assume his anus is irritated from the loose stool and having to wipe him off because he poops in his kennel and cannot move. I am nearby so I get him out of poop asap. This is soo hard. I want to cry everytime I look at him. I am an emotional basket case. do you know how big their crate should be? He can't walk around but he has enough room to adjust his position if that makes sense. |
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 19, 2013 14:03:32 GMT -7
Great to hear about the Pepcid! Loose stool can be caused by the medication- you can add a bit of canned pumpkin - to his food to help bulk up his stool. If it prgresses to diarrhea, or if there is blood in it then he will need Sulcralfate to coat his stomach and intestinal tract. His poor little bum can get irritated from all of the wiping - you can use unscented baby wipes to clean him up - they are easier on his more delicate tissues. His crate needs to be big enough for him to stretch out in, and turn around in - check out the link www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmWe are ALL basket cases when this happens, and we all need a shoulder to lean on. That is why we are here. Try not to show Bo how upset you are, you need to present a s calm and confident manner as possible ( yeah right, I know). He CAN recover from this - don't give up. Keeping you in thought and prayer |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 17:29:29 GMT -7
I picked Bo up this evening to go potty and he yelped when I touched his upper body. I am not sure if this is a normal or if he could have another slipped disc? I am totally balling. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 18:36:30 GMT -7
Bo was diagnosed with IVDD yesterday, and is paralyzed in back legs but still has deep tissue pain and reflexes. He has been doing so well all day, but then when I just tried to pick him up to express bladder he yelped when I touched his front leg area and Rhema's Bo 7/19 conservative. Is he getting worse? Is this normal? I don't know what to do. Im scared and so upset. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 19, 2013 18:47:45 GMT -7
Rhema, I sorry you have so much on your plate…young children and a disc episode to deal with. Hang in there there is no doubt you will get over this bump in the road. Smoother sailing is on the horizon, but you must do these things today, call the vet. 1. Any time there is diarrhea, not eating or other GI tract issues these are signs the steroid, Pred is doing some damage. Do not wait call and get an Rx for sucralfate asap. Pepcid alone works for most dogs, when it does not sucralfate needs to be on board right away. They work in different ways. Pepcid reduces stomach acids, sucralfate bandaids the damaged mucus lined areas of the GI tract. There will be timing when used with food and with pepcid ac…this is covered on this page: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.html2. How much does your standard doxie weigh? Very likely he is being underdosed for Tramadol at 12.5 mgs as you report he is in pain nearing the next doses.. My 13 lbs took 50 mgs every 8 hours. Again can you call and get an Rx for increased Tramadol mgs every 6-8 hours. How often are you actually giving tramadol 6 or 8 hours? Robaxin also has a high range of dose. Your vet is being very cautious and not aggressive enough with pain meds. When Tramadol and Robaxin together do not control pain, vets find good success by adding in a 3rd called gabapentin. So you vet has lots of options to get pain control right for Bo. There is no cookie cutter pain control recipe, just gotta work with the vet, give feedback and find what is right for Bo. Once pain meds are right it's in control in an hour and then stays in control dose to dose of the pain meds. Once pain is in control you can care for him without hurting him. While on pred you will likely need to express his bladder every 2-3 hours to keep him dry. Does he stay dry in between expressing..how often do you express his bladder? I doubt he has another disc…his pain meds are just not YET right. Once pain is under control caring for him will be so much easier. Getting sucralfate on board is a serious health issue right now…so do that as soon as possible to protect his stomach. Keep us posted. I know this is hard right at the moment until you get #1 and #2 accomplished. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 19:10:26 GMT -7
I will contact my vet in morning. they do not have emergency line. They open first thing in morning. Maybe it is 50mg of tramadol. I know the bottle says quanity 16 pills dosage 50mg, but the pills are cut into quarters so I assumed it was 16 -50mg pills cut into 4 pieces each making it 12.5 mg each quarter piece. Am I wrong with that thinking? lol I am confused on how to read dog medication lol I feel like a dummy. Also, now he is refusing to lay down. His back legs are paralyzed so he can't stand up, but he is in a sitting position and wont lay down. Right now I am expressing his bladder about 2-3 hours. He stays dry some of time, but leaks a little other times depending on how much water I give him if that makes sense. As he weans of pred will he pee less. I will be honest I am exhausted. Partly, because I also have 2 young boys so this is like throwing a newborn in the mix. I am starting to feel hopeless. I just want him to walk and be normal again. It happened so sudden. This sucks. I am seriously an emotional mess. Oh and if I can't bathe him what do I do about the urine smell? I wipe the urine off his feet and belly after I express, but he still wreaks of it. I use either baby wipes or a warm wash cloth with a little bit of mild soap. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 19, 2013 19:54:37 GMT -7
Your are correct a 50mg Tramadol tablet in fourths would be 12.5 mgs. He does not want to lie down (reluctance to move) because it is painful. How often had you been actually giving the Tramadol every 6 or every 8 hours. I'd be aggressive be consistent on the every 6 until you can get with the vet in the am. Do you have water inside his crate so he can drink as he needs?  Right now bathing would be dangerous to the early healing disc. That weak scar tissue can easily be disrupted by too much movement. So continue with the damp washcloth wiping or baby wipes that is the safest. If he consumes a good quantity of water say at breakfast time, then note the time... you should look to express about 1.5 to two hours after. As you hone your expressing skills, you will be emptying the bladder fully at each session thus lengthening the time between session to more like every 3 hours. Can you feel the last stage of expressing where one hand can almost feel the fingers of the other hand..then the bladder is pretty much empty! Do you have his bed set up to make laundry less of an issue. Mattress in trash bag…seal it shut with tape. Layer a pee pad on top, then a fleece bottom sheet tucked in all around. Fleece is synthetic, dries, fast, wicks moisture away, cut with scissors to needed sizes as it does not ravel.. get at local fabric shop. Put a hand spray on a bottle of white vinegar. Spritz on floor or fabrics and blot where urine may have landed..disinfects and takes away the ammonia/urine smell.  Decide to take control of your emotions, do yourself a favor and take a deep breath, you know breathe with your belly… and relieve some of that stress: video.about.com/altmedicine/2-Minute-Relaxation-Technique.htmStay in touch! |
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 19, 2013 22:43:12 GMT -7
Hi Rhema, My name is Jen. Welcome to Dodgerslist, I am so sorry about Bo. I was in the same position 4 weeks ago with our Tucker. Paralysis and, loss of bladder control plus his primary Dr said he would never walk again. He is now gaining the use of his legs back.
I see you are on a small dose of Tramadol. You should talk to your vet about getting him on 50mg 2 to 3 times a day for his pain.
I know this is a confusing and stressful time. The best advice I could give you is to read and educate yourself about IVDD. This site is loaded with knowledge. Have you looked into accupuncture and or laser therapy? Tucker has been doing so well with accupuncture. You can start any time. I highly recommend it. Please be sure he is on 100% strict crate rest. Only out to potty. This is key for progress. Stay strong! I know what you are going through. I promise once you develop a routine with Bo in his recovery things will get better.
Sending positive thoughts and healing prayers your way.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 20, 2013 4:34:55 GMT -7
I'm so sorry about Bo, Rhema. I know how horrifying and stressful this disease is. My Cocker Spaniel Jeremy was paralyzed 1-1/2 years ago, had surgery and was doing well until a month ago when he went down again. We're using the conservative approach this time. It can be terribly overwhelming. But know that once you get Bo's pain under control, things will get a lot better. Just take one day at a time and hopefully you'll be seeing improvement soon.
As for the urine, I found green tea to be a life saver. It neutralizes the urine so they don't get urine burn or smell. Just make a pot of green tea and wash Bo's belly and feet with a sponge or cloth. It really does help. I make a pot, pour some in a small pan to use and save the rest for later.
Keep us posted and we'll help you through each step of the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 6:30:48 GMT -7
Ok so here is an update:
He won't eat.
Bo is in a lot of pain today. I called vet they said I can just continue to increase his tram. until he is comfortable up to the 50mg, but if he is zonked out all day then to decrease it because its too high.
I did notice Bo did not ever yelp or cry when I touch his back legs to express his bladder, but today he yelped when I touched them. Since he is currently paralyzed is this a good sign showing that he can now feel in his legs beyond the deep pain sensation test? (obviously being in pain is not good, but I wanna know if it is a sign showing that he is improving.)
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 20, 2013 8:26:58 GMT -7
I'm sorry to hear Bo is in such pain. The important thing right now is to get his pain under control. I'm sure he is not eating and not wanting to do anything because he is in pain. Once the pain is under control I'm sure he will come around. Have you looked into accupuncture? I highly recommend it. This is a very stressful time but once you get Bos pain managed it will make you feel better that he can finally be comfertable and start the recovery prosses. Positive thoughts sent your way!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 20, 2013 9:58:36 GMT -7
Rhema, being in pain is a separate thing from the neuro status of being able to detect a pain sensation.
Being in pain is a bad thing. It actually hinders the entire healing process. Keep lines of communication open with your vet today on the pain, so you can have a plan B in case on Sunday when he is not open you know what to do.
I would go ahead and start being aggressive on the Tramadol at the 50 mg prescribed dose every 8 hours… the pain HAS to be brought under control ASAP. That should happen in 1 hour or less and then you want the pain to maintain being under control fully dose to dose of the Tramadol and the Robaxin. Let us know how the new Rx for Tamadol is working for Bo…. is he now out of pain. What dose in mg did you give him after calling the vet? As you can see we are a group who LOVE the detail! LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 12:40:12 GMT -7
I upped it [Tramadol] to 37.5mg, and so far seems to be MUCH better and comfortable with equal amounts of sleeping/awake time. Drinking well, and he ate a little bit! Does anyone know how I will know if he is making progress and healing or getting better or if he is getting worse? Just wondering. I am also looking into a rescue to possibly take him. He has been in my family for 7 years, and I don't have the heart to put him down, but at the same time it is really hard to provide him the care he needs with 2 small children. I really want someone who will be able to care for him and help rehabilitate him. |
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 20, 2013 13:13:55 GMT -7
I understand how overwhelming this all can be, Rhema. But I truly hope that Bo won't have to lose his home because of his illness and that you won't have to lose his love and affection. It's only been a few days. Please give it a little time. He may very well regain the use of his legs. He's already shown improvement now that the pain medication has been increased. It takes time for the nerves to heal and you may not see any more improvement for awhile. But that doesn't mean he won't get better. The love of his family is Bo's best medicine and is what he needs more than anything.
All that being said, there are people who rescue special needs dogs if you truly feel that you can't care for him. I think Bo would have a better chance of being rescued if you waited until his pain is completely under control and preferably until crate rest is over. It might be difficult for a rescue to take him right now. I can tell that you love Bo and want to do what's best for him. What area are you in? I work with a rescue in NJ, but I know that no one in that group is experienced with IVDD except me and I'm already rehabilitating my own dog.
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 20, 2013 16:21:24 GMT -7
It's only been a couple days. Please don't give up on him in his time of need. Putting him in a new home right now would only put more stress on him. His pain needs to be under control before he starts to heal. Like Paulina said I'd just start him on 50mg of Tramadol every 8 hours. That's what I did. I switched vets because my vet wasn't on board with the IVDD. So I told my new vet I wanted him on 50mg right away. As soon as we had Tucker's pain under control and he started accupuncture he was on the right track to recovery. Mind you this is a little dog that was paralyzed and lost his bladder control. We have just completed week 4 of crate rest and Tucker is now standing wobbly and starting to move his legs to walk while out to potty. PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP. I promise things will get better as soon as his pain is under control and you establish a routine. You have to be aggressive with this. We all know how stressful this is. It's full of questions and uncertainty right now. This not a disease that is reason for euthanasia or even rehomeing. Please be patient with Bo. This is a time where he needs you the most he ever had. STAY STRONG!
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 20, 2013 16:30:24 GMT -7
Rhema, As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable course of neurological deterioration: 1. Pain 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle (loss of proprioception) 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation As the nerves start to heal the healing prosses goes in the reverse order starting with #8. Read more: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/509/jens-tuckers-6-14-conservative#ixzz2ZdCguVGu |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2013 9:46:26 GMT -7
Bo has been doing tremendously better since I increased his tramadol even at 8 hours he isn't shivering and hunched over in pain like he was. He actually doesn't seem to be in pain at all when it is time for his next dose. He has some of his appetite back today! He also has been perking his ears up a lot and has spark in his eyes! Last night around midnight he managed to throw up I assume its an upset belly from all the meds, especially because he has been taking them on an empty stomach. The diarrhea has subsided, for 2 days now. Thank goodness. I am also finding that expressing his bladder is becoming so much easier to find and do. |
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 21, 2013 10:16:57 GMT -7
Rhema, you are doing a great job! Taking care of an IVDD dog is stressful, but as you see, not impossible! Thinking healing thoughts!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 21, 2013 10:31:04 GMT -7
Hi Rhema!
So happy to hear that Bo is perking up and acting alert today and expressing is getting easier for you and for Bo! Great sign that pain is under control! Great Job!! It takes several days for the new normal to fall into a routine for all concerned and I know you have so much on your plate with little ones and now Bo requiring so much care. If you stick with Bo, he will reward you with years of love.. It is worth it!!
Some dogs need something in addition to Pepcid AC.. Sucralfate works in a different way to bandage the irritated areas in the stomach and it would help settle that tummy.. With pain under control and tummy feeling better, hopefully he will start wanting to eat. I would advocate for the Sucralfate to heal his tummy..
Hang in there.. you are among friends here that understand.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 21, 2013 10:46:33 GMT -7
So glad to hear that Bo is feeling better! Once pain is under control, things really do improve. Glad to hear, too, that expressing has become easier for you. It's amazing the things we can get used to, given time. Now that Bo's pain is under control, he can start to heal. If you start feeling overwhelmed again, please know that we're here for you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2013 14:46:21 GMT -7
I read the info about making their bed, but I was wondering if there was a "too soft"?
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 21, 2013 17:30:09 GMT -7
I'm so happy to hear that Bo's pain is getting under control. He will be able to recover more comfortably now and you will be more at ease knowing that he is comfortable.
As far as the bedding goes the firmer the better. You want to make sure that his back has lots of support. You don't want a big fluffy bed because its not always that supportive.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2013 17:43:56 GMT -7
ok thanks.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 21, 2013 18:28:57 GMT -7
Memory foam or egg crate foam is very good as it can prevent pressure sores from lying about all these weeks. The typical dog beds will work too enclosed in a trash bag.
I'm so glad to hear all the good reports on the firmer stools, getting the hang of expressing and best of all the pain is under control!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2013 20:44:52 GMT -7
Anyone else's dog randomly whine?? He's not whining like he is in pain, i gave him water, and took him potty. Hmmmmmmmm , these r the times i wish dogs could talk! Lol
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Post by jochs311 on Jul 21, 2013 21:11:56 GMT -7
Lol. I think we all wish dogs could talk. You need to ignore the whining. As hard as it is do not give into it. Walk out of the room if you have to. He just wants attention. You could put an article of clothing in his crate for comfort. You can also get lavender oil and spray some on the underside of his bed. There is a product called Rescue Remedy too that you can give him to calm him. He needs rest. He will learn that it's a calming place to be as long as you ignore it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2013 21:37:19 GMT -7
Its driving me crazy bc its 1230am and he keeps whining!! Ahhhh!! Lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 6:02:45 GMT -7
I feel like we take one step forward and 2 steps back. Bo seems to be in pain again 3 hours into 50mg of tram and on his robaxin. ;( waiting for vet to call me back. Is he building a tolerance to tram? Is his pain getting worse? Is he getting worse? I feel like he did well for two days no pain now its back. Feeling discouraged.
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Bo is currently unable to use his back legs at all, but is able to still feel in them. I have to express his bladder and I occasionally will find a little wetness under him, but I am trying to express his bladder every couple hours because he is on steriods and I know it increases urination to try and prevent an over full bladder. I am really struggling with knowing if I am emptying his bladder all the way. I am terrified of him getting a bladder infection because I am doing something wrong. I also worry everytime I pick him up that I may not be supporting him enough even though the vet showed me how to do it. 
