Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on May 17, 2018 4:58:49 GMT -7
To calm your dog in the crate, it would be a good idea to cover the top with a towel. That should mellow him/her. It also creates a den like feeling that dogs love. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Dogs: Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/us/Products/ADAPTIL-Calm-Home-Diffuser with dog pheromones Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. 3) Bach's Rescue Remedy is a liquid 5-herb combo to help with relaxation (Star of Bethlehem – Orithogalum umbellatum, Rock Rose – Helianthemum, Cherry Plum – Prunus cerasifera, Impatiens – Impatiens gladulifera, Clematis – Clematis vitalba) Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Preferable is to start teaching what you do want before there is too much practice in doing the unwanted behavior. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will see they get rewards for four feet on the floor, quietly sitting, etc. Consider some of these ideas: -- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers:www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm -- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. -- Nan Arthur, CDBC, CPDT, KPACTP: According to the book "Stress in Dogs" by Martina Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt, the most well-behaved dogs get 17 or more hours of rest and sleep per day. Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. When dogs have a focus and an understanding about how to behave to get what they want, they are much calmer overall. To do this, each time your dog looks at you, say, something like, “Yes!” or use a clicker to mark the second he looks at you, and then give your dog a high-value food reward. [NOTE: for crate resting dogs, shift your body a bit] .... wait for your dog to look up at you again, say, “Yes,” and reward again. Do this exercise 10 or so times and then say, “All done,” and put the treats away. Come back later and do it again until you can see that your dog is really starting to make automatic eye contact in hopes you will say, “Yes,” again and give him his reward. [NOTE: treats should be subtracted from the normal daily kibble ration so as not to gain weight during crate rest.] wholedogtraining.com/images/stories/Are_all_dogs_trainable.pdf -- If your dog won’t get too excited seeing what’s happening outside, during the day try putting the crate on the coffee table or the dining room table so there will be a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the house from on high. -- Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows. Fill a Kong with soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the Kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube. Good thick low salt/no fat chicken broth is full of cartilage-building proteins and amino acids. Freeze it up into cubes for easy access as you need it. Fun and keeps the body hydrated: place cubes in a bowl for licking.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 18, 2018 7:59:38 GMT -7
Im a litte perplexed. I feel Paco has a upset tummy, not eating normally about 1/2 maybe 1/4 of what he normally does and gurgling stomach. I haven't seen any improvements, just gradually getting worse since adding pepcid 30 minutes before Rimadyl and 1 hour before meals, hard to do 1 hour before meals because he doesn't eat breakfast till about dinner time and doesn't finish that. I even gave 10mg after a few days of seeing no improvement of eating issues. Vet said pepcid 5mg to 10 mg would be ok but he shouldn't need it. This has been going on since 5/11. I called Vet 5/16 to ask about weaning him off Rimadyl cuz he doesn't seem to be in pain (moving around better quick to lift head to see what hes missing) and hes showing signs of tummy upset. Vet strongly recommended staying on course with Rimadyl till appointment on 5/28. I read how it may take 7 to 30 days for Rimadyl to work so I dont wanna set back his healing progression but one of the signs to report to vet is loss of appetite on Rimadyl. Could pepcid be making his tummy more upset or is that a crazy question? Any thoughts on this?
4/30 started Rimadyl 12.5mg 2xday 5/7 Rimadyl 18mg 2xsday 5/10 ate breakfast at dinner time 5/11 started Pepcid 5mg 2xsday 5/15 pepcid 10mg
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 18 ilbs Rimadyl as of 4/30 ER: 12mgs 2x/day for 7 days as of 5/7 DVM: 18 mgs 2x/day for ▼21 days, then 5/28 stop to test for pain Di Gu Pi San added 5/16; stopped 5/16 gensing contraindicated with a NSAID! gabapentin 100mgs every other day as of 5/13 Pepcid AC 10mgs 2x/day] He is moving quite well and is getting up to sitting position a little faster than i would like considering he needs to be still and resting so disk can heal correctly.
Im sorry for kinda asking same question twice. Im just not comfortable with this eating issue going on like this after reading all the health issues Rimadyl can cause, im probably overreacting.
Thanks Darlene and Paco Gabapentin 100mg has been every other day since 5/13 he has one left for 5/19
Only way to get pepcid or Rimadyl in him last 7 days is crushed in a litte bit of NY strip. I wonder if hes holding out for a steak dinner.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 18, 2018 8:57:53 GMT -7
Darlene --- Pepcid AC side effects are rare but may include loss of appetite --- Aloe Vera for some few dogs may cause diarrhea. How is his stool, soft or normal firmness? --- For most dogs Pepcid AC alone will be protection enough to avoid beginnings of stomach lining disruption: nausea leading to not eating> vomit>, diarrhea> bleeding ulcers> blood in diarrhea. For some few dogs a 2nd stomach protector is needed. Pepcid AC to suppress extra acids from Rimadyl AND sucralfate to bandaid those areas of the stomach lining or intestines that are beginning to show damage signs of the Rimadyl. Pepcid AC needs 30 mins to become effective. Rimadyl is given 30 mins after Pepcid AC and given with a meal as extra protection. How long to use Rimadyl is all a guess. When it is guessed that all pain is gone, then Rimadyl is stopped along with the pain masking pain med gabpentin. This way you can very quickly assess for pain. --Pain would mean to get Rimadyl back on board asap plus get pain meds back on board to conitinue working at resolving all swelling. -- Most vets try a guess of 5-7 days for a course or even some may call for a 14 day course of Rimadyl. Your vet has now called for a 21 days course of Rimadyl to possible end on 5/28. -- Most vets do not require a risky to the disc transport for an office visit to adjust meds. Often owner reporting specific signs meds can be adjusted over the phone. Upon the stop of Rimadyl + pain meds, owners can also report no signs or what signs of pain they see. If pain is observed another course of Rimadyl, naturally would be needed. If on the stop of Rimadyl, no signs of pain surface, then there is no need of any meds--- no more potential for adverse side effects that ALL anti-inflammatory drugs carry. When an anti-inflammatory drug is needed the benefit is immense. When there is no work for the anti-inflammatory to do all that remains is just possible serious adverse side effects. That is why no one wants a dog on them any bit longer than necessary. -- Rimadyl is a non-steroid anti-inflammatory drug. Rimadyl does not need to be backed off or tapered, it can just be stopped to do a quick assessment about pain AND even you may well see if the stomach issue goes away. It can take 5-7 days before Rimadyl has gotten to so low a level that is has finally left the body. What is your understanding of the benefit to be gained with a risky to the disc transport on 5/28 VS. if you could test for pain by the stop of Rimadyl and then report your findings if any signs of pain surface via a phone call. Vets who know IVDD, understand these concerns and very do often work with clients over the phone in order to keep the dog with minimal movement. Just see t hat gabapentin is now every other day....almost like not giving it. So if the pain med is being stopped, seems like a good idea to get conclusive proof now if all the pain is now gone by the stop of Rimadyl.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 18, 2018 10:20:53 GMT -7
Stool perfect so far well he didn't go yesterday put now that hes not eating as much he may not go every day.
No Aloe given cept once 5/17
I want to wait on adding anything else unless its absolutely necessary at this time I would like to see how he does, with out Rimadyl but Vet closed on sunday
I have plenty of Rimadyl, Trazodone,and Acepromazine but only 1 gabapentin 100mg
He wouldn't eat AM Rimadyl dose so he has a jump start I was feeling sketchy about it so I didnt leave it in crate like i had to do yesterday, even with steak bits. Husband would say I feel sketchy about giving it and thats why Paco won't eat it.
What if inflammation comes back from being off Rimadyl, could that somehow hurt his injury or nerves that have healed without the inflamation
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 18, 2018 13:42:50 GMT -7
Going off the Rimadyl would not hurt healing nerves. If off all meds and no pain the inflammation is gone. If the inflammation was not gone, which would be known because of pain reemerging, he would be back on all meds right away. You can't hurt Paco by doing this test for pain because he can just go right back on meds if still needed.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 18, 2018 13:43:14 GMT -7
Sure enough Paco just poo, 75 % of poo had black coating on it. Tech says bring him in Vet agreed
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 18, 2018 14:01:30 GMT -7
If he is going to continue on Rimadyl, you could ask the vet about adding Sucralfate which protects the stomach differently than Pepcid AC.
Please update us when you have spoken to the vet.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 18, 2018 17:29:46 GMT -7
Vet insisted he be seen before he would give anything for stomach upset. I asked for Vet to please see Paco in vehicle so not to upset him any more, SHE did.
This was different Vet,my vet has 4 that practice in Office. I explained situation and after a quick evaluation of mostly his mouth, im guessing that was mostly for dehydration. She agreed it was likely the Rimadyl that caused his intestinal issues.
He is to STOP Rimadyl Start ✚carafate oral suspension 2ml 2xs daily Continue pepcid 10mg 2xs daily
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 18 ilbs Rimadyl as of 4/30 ER: 12mgs 2x/day for 7 days as of 5/7 DVM: 18 mgs 2x/day for ▼21 days as of 5/18: STOPPED due to black digested stomach blood in stool gabapentin 100mgs every other day as of 5/13 Pepcid AC 10mgs 2x/day ✚Carafate as of 5/18 2mL 2x/day ✚ lactated ringers solution- fluids and electrolytes replacement 1x/day]
They did CBC and Chem 8 roto prep profile ll Gave lactated ringers solution 100ml. He should have it once a day. I can do it at home or bring him in I will be doing it at home. Liver numbers were on high side and should fall when Rimadyl is out of his system. Im not too happy right now cuz i seen this coming and vet advised me to stay on course 2 days ago. I should have listened to my gut, next time I will trust myself
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Post by Pauliana on May 18, 2018 22:21:23 GMT -7
Now that Rimadyl has been stopped, Paco's tummy should settle. Plus you will be able to see if the inflammation is gone or not. If no pain happens then no further medications would be needed. If pain call Vet ASAP to get another anti inflammatory, not Rimadyl, on board. Hopefully Paco's Rimadyl stop will show inflammation is gone!
Fingers crossed!
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 19, 2018 7:49:04 GMT -7
Thanks Paulina Can someone please explain to me why it seems so many Vets aren't more knowledgeable on treating IVDD and is it just conservative treatment dogs that see this lack of knowledge in your regular veterans?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 19, 2018 9:35:56 GMT -7
Darlene, The Dallas Veterinary Surgical Center ortho specialsts explain what to look for in hiring an ideal IVDD knowledgeable vet to be on our dog's IVDD health care team: **A veterinarian experienced in management of all aspects of IVDD treatment, both medical and surgical, is invaluable in helping to guide pet owners. ** Most DVMs in a general practice see many different species- hampsters, cats, all breeds of dogs, reptiles, birds, maybe even farm animals. When you think about it, general vets are awesome people. They practice many specialties in the course of a day: pediatrics, dentistry, surgery, internal medicine. Dr. Mike Richards, DVM explains why your vet may not know IVDD in depth: Many people know the symptoms of one disease very well...Veterinarians are almost all general practitioners. Most work on several species of animals and treat disorders of all body organs and systems medically and surgically. Inevitably, they are not going to know the medical problems of every single dog breed or cat breed well. They are not going to have "cutting edge" knowledge about every organ system in their head. It is very easy for a non veterinarian to learn the medical problems of one or two breeds in more depth than their veterinarian. It is a little more difficult, but not close to impossible, for a lay person to learn more about a particular organ system than the average veterinarian. Especially if it affects a beloved pet of theirs...My knowledge of veterinary medicine surpasses almost every lay person's knowledge, in general. That gives me the ability to research many topics more quickly than a lay person can. It doesn't take me as long to get "up to speed" as it took a particular client to acquire an in-depth understanding of a particular disease affecting their pet.
One thing about the inexpensive meds and no-cost crate rest of conservative treatment is lack of grant monies available to study Conservative Treatment, run a well designed trial to provide the evidenced based science on what the optimum kind of treatment should be, leading to what conservative treatment principals would then be taught in school. Veterinary school gives a vet a vast knowledge base. Everyone graduates with individual knowledge gaps and different abilities to apply that knowledge efficiently. A vet adds to their knowledge base with every new case. If they don't see enough IVDD cases in their practice, then IVDD may not be their strong point. The good news is that each of us owners CAN be very knowledgeable about the one single disease that is very important to us! Treating a disc episode is not rocket science when there is an understanding about how the disc heals, how meds are used with a disc episode. We owners can get up to speed if we are willing to read on behalf of our loved one. All of us can advocate for our dogs and be their voice! Dodgerslist has an unusual vantage point in observing well over 10,000 vets and how they treat a disc episode. Not many vets other than at a very busy surgical referral center will see so many IVDD dogs. Since 2002 we have seen patterns of which dogs tend to do well and which dogs have problems of relapse to an early healing disc, which dogs have GI tract problems when on anti-inflammatory drugs, which dogs suffer needlessly due to being under medicated for pain. Couple all these anecdotal stories with our consults with neuros and other veterinary professionals we have collected an unprecedented amount of information on disc disease for owners to quickly learn.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 20, 2018 17:59:24 GMT -7
Update Pacos back seems better, no painful movement, actually he stood up for a few seconds when I came in from work. It startle me quite a bit, happy to see it but I dont want him hurting the healing progression. Wondering if Vets ever reccomend sedatives to keep dogs from doing to much, its only been 3 weeks since injury? He was only on sedatives first week but now hes obviously feeling a bit too froggy for me.
How long does it take for appetite to return after stopping Rimadyl? He will only eat once a day, half as much and only if I hand feed him. He hasn't drank any water on his own since 5/18 that is also the day he started subQ fluids 75mg and not peeing much at all, small amounts 2xs daily since then as well You would think the subq fluids would make him pee more, not less?
5/18 stopped Rimadyl 18mg 2×s daily 5/18 started subq fluids 75mg once daily Continued pepcid 10mg 2xs daily.. 1hr before meals 5/18 carafate 2mg 2xs daily... minimum 2hrs after pepcid and 1 hour after meal if he eats. No food 1 hour before or after carafate and no pepcid 2 hours before or after pepcid. Small poo today 5/20 not as much black as 5/18 Ok poo amount 5/19 just as much black as 5/20
Paco has also started licking his chops, like he smells something to eat and sneezed twice that I heard
Nevermind the sedative questions, i found the post where I was given options for that
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on May 21, 2018 6:29:34 GMT -7
Licking his face could be due to nausea. He had no Rimadyl at all on 5/18 so that would be a full three days of no Rimadyl? If you don't see an improvement today, I would speak to the vet again to double check. It may take a bit longer for any GI damage to heal, according to how much damage there was. Good sign that his poop is looking better.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 21, 2018 6:55:10 GMT -7
Correct....Last Rimadyl 18mg was 5/17 @ 7pm
This morning 5/21 Poo was all brown, formed but a little softer/wet than normal in some spots, could have had mucus in it, sorry hard to be sure. Still not eating, unless hand fed and not drinking water unless I use dropper in mouth. His belly gurgling hasn't been as bad. I hope its just his belly taking a bit longer to settle down and not some missed kidney or liver issue from Anti-inflammatory Thanks for replying Magjorie
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 21, 2018 7:31:59 GMT -7
Good report on poop firming up! With Pepcid AC and carafate on board his tummy can carry on with healing the bleeding ulcer (black blood in poop was digested blood) and you ought to see he feels more like eating as the healing goes forward. Are you slowly introducing a temporary for a few days of a gentle bland, no fat diet to help those sores heal? Offering him smaller portions but several times a day? Check with your veterinarian if this type of temporary bland diet is appropriate for his ulcer situation. From Dr. Becker, DVM: ....begin a bland diet that is fat-free. I recommend cooked, ground turkey, and canned 100 percent pumpkin. If canned pumpkin isn’t available, you can use cooked sweet potato.
Many vets still believe in a bland diet of ground beef and rice. I don’t agree. Even the leanest ground beef is too high in fat, and while rice is indeed bland and contains fiber, it’s a complex carbohydrate that tends to ferment. This can make your pet gassy, and rice often passes right through the GI tract, exiting with the next bout of loose stool in exactly the same condition it entered.
Pumpkin or sweet potato, on the other hand, is usually digestible even for pets suffering with diarrhea, so there’s some absorption of nutrients from the fiber source.
Mix the turkey and pumpkin 50/50 .... healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/09/28/pet-diarrhea-symptoms-and-causes.aspx
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 21, 2018 10:10:26 GMT -7
God Bless everyone that has helped Paco,other Animals and Caregivers that are lucky enough to find Dogerslist. Poo never looked loose at all, untill 5/21, up until then just black coverd, like a coating over poo... i didn't actually touch it though. 5/18 75% black coverage 5/19 50% black coverage 5/20 25% black coverage 5/21 no black slightly less firm and may have had mucus. All good signs to me, keeping a eye on mucus. Stomach does still sound like a simmering pot though. Was not aware of any simple bland diet. He has always had boiled chicken with broth, carrots and rice or oatmeal over Nutro Natural kibble for meals. Past 2 weeks only chicken and broth over kibble. I see a issue with that due to fat in broth. Diet changes will be made today 5/21.. going to store when dad gets home. I will increase to 3 to 4 small feedings a day with turkey and pumpkin. Should i change pepcid with meals... maybe decrease dose to 5ml 1hr before the mini meals? Hes on pepcid 10mg 2xs daily 1 hour before meals. Check with Vet? I called this morning 5/21 and asked tec for some sort of time line on when I may see improvement with food/water and should I be worried about all the stomach gurgling still going on? She said bring him in if meds are not working.. I explained that they are in poo color and its very risky to bring Paco in with out having help. After speaking with doctor She called back and said I could come get script for loose stools Paco doesn't have loose stools. (Am i missing something here) Asked tec to check with doctor about that script I don't understand Paco has never had loose stools She called back Doctor said I could pick up script for loose stools or bring him in. I will give it a day and see, he doesn't need a script for loose stools and I dont have safe transportation for Paco. I have lost faith in Reg Vet at this point I have Holistic Vet that seen Paco once last week 5/17 she recomend I keep regular vet on board, she doesn't do emergency hours and most vets dont mind working with her. I do have an appointment with her along with safe transportation tomorrow 5/22. Im looking into new Vet today and speaking with her tomorrow.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 21, 2018 10:55:17 GMT -7
Darlene some dogs enjoy microwaved and mashed sweet potato over the pureed pumpkin.
Turkey or chicken can work in the bland diet you will use for a jus a few days and then transition slowly over a couple of days back on to the fully balanced nutrition of his kibble.
I would keep Pepcid Ac on the same schedule.
Be aware of high fiber foods such as pureed pumpkin and sweet potato regarding stools.
Plain pureed canned pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. NOTE: alternatives microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potatoe. --To loosen the stool, add equal parts water (no salt broth) to equal the meat/fiber portion.
So just keep an eye on his poop, see if you need to add more or less broth/water to his small meals several times a day.
Let us know how his stomach sounds do with the bland diet for a few days.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 22, 2018 6:16:22 GMT -7
bland mini meal 5/21 6pm 10mg pepcid 7pm 1/4 cup chicken breast wanted more = almost no gurgling belly 830pm carafate 2mg No water on his own and couldnt do subq fluids 10pm 20 ml h2o in mouth dropper
5/22 530 am tried subq fluid again, no go. 30mg of h20 in mouth dropper 610am pepcid 10mg 7am 1/4 cup turkey/pumpkin 75/25 little less pumpkin to be sure he doesn't have a reaction. Never had pumpkin before. After lunch I will use 50/50. He wanted more. Absolutely NO gurgling! 830am pee ok amount a little on bright side, poo small amount good color good form 9am carafate 2ml Belly is looking good very quickly. Im watching anxtiously to see him atart drinking. I sure miss my step daughter, she kept Paco busy and made putting/keeping subq needle in easy.
Holistic Vet roday 5/21 after Dad hets home for acupuncture spine and belly issues, check to make sure he hasn't become dehydrated, maybe check liver numbers if needed. Asking her about local vet recommendations. Am I missing anything?
Oh and no more lip liking/smacking or yawning unless i come at him with water dropper or water dish. Like water is making him stressed or nausea
I thought I seen a thread on transportation, or maybe we could have something where local IVDD caregivers could help each other with this issue. Maybe start with a sub group by state? Im lucky to have a few people to help and when Paco is crate trained enough to stay home alone I would like to help others. I dont feel one of the hardest things for me has been not being able to leave Paco home alone due to his separation issues. We're slowly addressing them but Im doing my best to not cause any stress now.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 23, 2018 7:48:44 GMT -7
Darlene, sounds like his GI tract is settling down, and poops good color and form. No more signs of nausea with lip licking lips is good!!
Maybe some homemade meat broth (no salt, no onion) will inspire him to drink on his own? Simmer a chicken part. Cool, remove fat disc from top and toss bones/skin. You can freeze the broth and serve as an ice cube he can enjoy licking on OR slightly warm the broth for an inviting fragrance to want to lap up.
Sounds like he does not like the water dropper thing...yawning is a stress sign.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 23, 2018 13:19:16 GMT -7
I have chicken broth already made. Top part is yellow wax like, i know thats fat. What about the clear jelly like that is under that? I guess I could Google that. Its very important I het him drunking. He did show signs of dehydration yesterday, sticky gums and skin test, 5/22pm at his holistic Vet. They helped me with 100mg of sub fluids, he hadn't had any for 48hours. I will have friend help tomorrow if he continues to not drink. I showed Vet yesterday how he starts the lip smacking and occasional yawn when i put water in front of him and ask him to drink. I suspect that the thought of water stress him or makes him feel nausea. She said its possible. Keeping a eye on it for sure. I will try broth right away. I wanted to add he didn't care for the needles yesterday but quickly relaxed after she moved away from him. I actually had to hold his face at one point he turned and growled at her. Nuro signs better and seems maybe a little hypersensitivity even before the treatment. He really flinched when I tried the past 3 days to do subq fluids. Maybe just grumpy from belly being upset. Belly seems good and i plan on finishing today out on the bland diet. That gives him a full 48 hours on it. Then slowly going back to regular diet Car ride was great to Vet. He only wanted to lift his head a few times, otherwise he was content to lay head down as long as I was hovering over him. He stood up on all 4's again today when he seen cat outside. Should I keep windows closed so he doesn't do that?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 23, 2018 13:34:45 GMT -7
I hope the broth works for him. Please let us know.
It is not surprising that he does not like getting subcutaneous fluids. I don't think any animal would. Having a friend help you if he still needs the fluids is a good idea.
When you say neuro signs better, could you be more specific?
It is not a problem for Paco to stand up on 4 legs but if seeing things out the window may make him want to jump up or move around more in general then it is important to keep the window closed.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 23, 2018 15:20:04 GMT -7
Lifts leg higher to pee, twitch when Docter put acupuncture needle in on left side, didn't do that last week.
Chicken broth jelly like substance? From what i have read, it is the colegen from bones in chicken Very good for him and easy to digest.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 23, 2018 17:40:53 GMT -7
Darlene, you nailed it with your broth...the goal is to get all the beneficial nutrients out of bones and end up with a jelly when cold! You can't get real broth from those thin watery grocery store boxes labeled "broth." Collagen is a primary component of connective tissue. It is found in various forms in the skin, tendons, blood vessels, organs, bone, cartilage, intervertebral discs...
Darlene, let us know how Paco likes the jellied broth or some slightly warmed and a bit poured over his dinner or some just to lap up and get more hydrated. Most dogs LOVE broth.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 24, 2018 3:46:28 GMT -7
No Go on homemade broth 5/22 1030pm Gave 1/4 cup and he loved it, licked every last drop! 12am Gurgling returned, had not had it in 24hrs, with belly ache did lip smacking. Not as bad as previous more like a slow simmer. 1230am I gave 1tsp of aloe juice, too soon to give pepcid. He had 7.5 mg at 615pm 115am 1/4 cup plain chicken breast and no more gurgling buy 230am
Anyother ideas to keep this dog hydrated besides subq fluids? I dont want to go back to vet unless i need to.
5/18 pepcid 10mg 2xs day Started carafate 2mg 2xsday
I feel desperate to get him fluids.
Going to try 1tsp pumpkin+1/4 cup h20 this morning or tbl spoon finely chopped chicken breast in 1/4 cup h20 Husband says pedilite? I dont know if dogs with upset belly or ulsers can have that. Mom says broth from meat flavored babyfood?
5/24 610 am pee 2xs small amounts, Poo small amont slightly constipated and a spot of black
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 24, 2018 8:15:04 GMT -7
Pedialyte is to replace electrolytes (salt, potassium, zinc) lost during diarrhea and vomiting. Looks like plain classic Pedialyte no longer contains things a dog should not have. Ingredients: Water, Dextrose. Less than 2% of: Citric Acid, Natural & Artificial Flavor, Potassium Citrate, Salt, Sodium Citrate, Sucralose, Acesulfame Potassium, Zinc Gluconate, and Yellow 6.
It would be best if you keep your vet in the loop with updates.
Double check the carafate @ 2mgs. For an 18 lbs dog the dose would be more like 500mgs every 12 or 8 hours. When suspended in a liquid there should be listed on the bottle how many mgs are contained in one mL. Carafate can cause constipation.
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 24, 2018 21:26:03 GMT -7
Correction☆ Bottle says give 2ml 2xs daily doesn't have mg
I did call vet a few days ago, always get put through to a tec. Tec talks to vet calls me back. If i leave voice mail for vet tec calls me back. I spoke to tec a few times early this week with questions not anwsered. Tec left off telling me to come get Rx for loose stools or come in. That was the only answer she could give me. Paco has one dose of Carafate due tomorrow tomorrow ar 9am. I have appointment with New Vet tomorrow at 3pm friday 5/25 Paco did get subq fluids 75ml today with help from a friend. Still not drinking unless I use dropper eating only bland diet last 72hours. He was very chipper this afternoon/evening even barking to go out to pee,normally its just been a head raise or tail wag when asked. No belly rumbling but when he was due for pepcid He started lip smacking,
im now wondering if its stress, nausea or his throat from acid.... if thats even possible. I hope this New vet can help Paco with GI issues. I won't be surprised if they ask for bloodwork to compare it to laat week. I am now concerned that the Rimadyl may still be messing with him, is that even possible a full 7 days later? [5/18 stopped Rimadyl 18mg 2×s daily] I read something about it could have side effects that linger for many weeks and some cases permanent. I had vet send records over earlier today. I figured why go in tomorrow and then have to take him again to new vet sometime next week. I was going to go in to have a face to face, maybe address the issues i have had.. but I feel its in Pacos best interest to move on. Im sorry for my dog that I/he found out the hard way... asking correct questions. When your in distress about a ill pet it can be overwhelming at vet visit.
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Post by Pauliana on May 24, 2018 21:44:19 GMT -7
Hi Darlene,
I think the lip smacking may be from nausea and most likely acid.. Once Rimadyl causes side effects they can last for a period of time until stomach protectors get it under control. I hope the new Vet will be more helpful to you and Paco and get his GI issues under control and be more knowledgeable on IVDD.
Ask the former Vet or Vet tech what the Mgs per ML for the carafate.. They should have put that on the label.
Please let us know how the Vet appt goes and any changes made to his medications.
Healing thoughts...
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 26, 2018 5:20:30 GMT -7
5/25 am last dose: pepcid 10mg 2xs day, carafate [sucralfate] 2ml 2xs day -Carafate 20mlg 2x's daily since friday 5/18 pm
pm started: omeprazole 5mg once a day, sucralfate 1/4 of a 1gram tab every 8 to 12 hours gave shot cerenia 0.80 10mg/ml at 4pm may be adding cerenia to this Vet will call 5/26 go over test results
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 18 ilbs Rimadyl as of 4/30 ER: 12mgs 2x/day for 7 days as of 5/7 DVM: 18 mgs 2x/day for ▼21 days as of 5/18: STOPPED due to black digested stomach blood in stool Cerenia shot on 5/25 omeprazole 5mgs 1x/day sucralfate 250mgs 2x]
brought in pee and poo, just in case... Vet was happy to take pee fresh but maybe poo was too old, 7 hours, took her own sample. also did blood work, index sermon profile with standered and will call me today with those results. she wasn’t completly convinced that he had blood in stool.
Paco wasn’t dehydroated and I can stop sub fluids, last given was 5/24 am 75ml. suspected he’s not drinking as much cuz he is nausea and getting just enough by subq. and moist food that he’s not thirsty
I haven’t seen hardly any lip smacking/yawning so far 5/26 5/25 he ate his all 1/2 cup turkey/pumpkin dinner at 8pm acted like he was starving so i gave a few bites of boiled ck breast still not drinking water yet. i haven’t heard tummy gurgle since 5/25 am. vet seems to think we about have this GI stuff licked, will have better idea after blood wTwo vets in office I was reffered to her , young fresh might be a good thing. We talked a little about IVDD, was interested in dogerslist printout I left,This will be Pacos reg vet office from now on. She did mention that other Vet praticing with her has a few IVDD dogs I felt very comfortable with new vet Paco was OK concidering what he’s been through last 4 weeks. He growled a very low quit touch me kinda thing. I think he’s sick of all this and needs a break to just rest with out being messed with for a bit I’m canceling his acupuncture for Tuesday
Transport went great as always, will be nice to drive myself again. I can’t wait to be able to take golf cart rides with him again, He loved that.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
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Post by PaulaM on May 26, 2018 7:05:54 GMT -7
Darlene, hope to hear back that the new vet is correct the GI issues are on the mend! Good news on Paco scoffing up the turkey/pumpkin meal.
Is he still taking gabapentin? still taking lactated ringers solution?
Sucralfate is the generic for carafate. Which do you actually give every 12 or every 8 hrs? Hard to tell if the dose was increased as never could get the correct information about how many mgs werein one mL. Anyway if increased, do know this med can cause constipation. Pumpkin has high fiber and could cause constipation IF, if he is not taking in enough moisture (via food, lapping up water).
Thank you for introducing Dodgerslist to your new vet!
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Post by Darlene & Paco on May 26, 2018 9:20:18 GMT -7
No gabapentin last dose 5/17 100mg I did get rx refill just in case when seen at old vet 5/18.. reminds me i only have one from old script I need to get it filled just in case I need it, at least drop it off so its waiting to be filled. TY
no lactated ringer subq last dose 5/24am 75ml.. I have set up if needed was told it should be good for 30 days. best to use in a week tho
Sucralfate 1/4 of a 1gm tab every 12hours first dose 5/25 8pm as of now, could change after I speak to vet today. seems ok with 12 hour, then again we were sleeping at 4am, i sleep about 5 feet from him and we all slept till 630am. I gave 1 hour early this morning. Im trying to work out a good schedule for his eating / meds. will ask vet if she thinks 8 or 12is better. blood work might determine that... I’m guessing
agree with previous carafate dose, anyway. I recall you or someone else on here mention that constipation issue, keeping a eye on that and will mention to vet when she calls today so I can be prepared i was thinking pumpkin would cause loose stools,,, good to know that.
I hope to meet with other Vet in practice, she has a few IVDD dogs she sees...so I can share info with her in more detail how helpful dogerslist can be to other IVDD care givers. I found out yesterday that other vet there does laser therapy ... stage 4 or 4 whatever that means. New vet told me to check it out and call if I’m interested. Things looking good with the new vet hopefully on right track. I feel a little relief at the moment. I will certainly update after vet call today, i work tonight so it will likely be late before i have time to post. Thanks for being so helpful!!!!!!!
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