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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 11, 2013 4:52:28 GMT -7
Hello all, I like to give updates if you are following us. Timmie is doing so well, I am proud of him and tell him every day. He is getting into his sphinx position all by himself now and when we go for potty breaks his legs can bear more weight than before. I don't let him do too much yet as I want the healing to continue. I am going to start to taper late next week a little at a time to see how he will do, so keep your fingers crossed. Still doing massages and passive range of motion exercises which I recommend to anyone as it comforts them and you as well and makes their muscles feel so much better. As I said, he loves them and now expects them. We both are counting the days that we can walk back into the vets and let him know what a mistake he would have made. I also recommend, if you can find or make, a flex seed pillow that you can warm in the microwave and cool in the freezer. Again, he loves it, when his little belly gets warm I will take the cool one and put it between his front paws along his belly, it is not too long before he is taking a nap.
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 11, 2013 5:46:29 GMT -7
Rhonda what a fabulous job you are doing with your Timmie!! Love your attitude. I hope more people read your posts because they are so encouraging and show just how wrong it is to just give up!! Can you tell me how you made those pillows please? I would love to make one for my Fred. And how do you know to use hot or cold? You two keep fighting and keeping you both in my prayers.
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 11, 2013 8:54:29 GMT -7
Thank you so much for your words. I didn't make the pillow, i bought it at a place called Mother Earth Pillows many years ago. I do plan on trying to make a few as soon as i find flax seed and some material.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 11, 2013 9:01:58 GMT -7
You can also fill a sock with 1-2 cups of dry rice or dried corn kernals. Knot the end. Microwave for 1-2 minutes. Test in crook of your arm for warm not hot temperature. Wrap in a towel so it's not too hot for the skin and place in crate. Let your dog snuggle against when you are present to supervise in case your dog has a desire to munch on the warm rice. Note: human heating pads can get too hot burning skin. Snuggle Safe is a commercial product that will keep warm the whole night. I've had mine for over 5 years and Clark does his happy dance when he sees it coming! www.petstew.com/B00008AJH9/pet-supply-imports-snugglesafe-pet-heating-pad.html [snuggle safe] |
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 11, 2013 21:41:10 GMT -7
Thank you Paula, I would not have thought of that solution. Stacy, I did not answer your question as to when I use warm vs cold as far as the pillow. First, pay attention to what your baby says....Timmie tends to get hot during the summer and with the Prednisone doubly so. When he starts panting due to heat, he will take a drink of water if he is hot and not take a drink if it is pain, I will take the cold pillow and put it between his front paws and along his belly. This will make him comfortable and he usually sleeps and starts snoring. If he is having pain or stiffness in his back, I will place the cold pillow along his back not over 30 minutes, each dog will tolerate the time differently, then I will take the pillow and heat it in the microwave for approx 30 seconds until it is barely warm, test this against your skin. I will take the warm pillow and put it along his back, this will help relax the tight muscles. I hope this helps you.
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 13, 2013 4:26:48 GMT -7
Timmie is no longer rolling to his sphinx position. He can hold it if I help him and his front feet tend to knuckle under. I have not been able to give him his pain meds every 3-4 hrs the last couple of days due to work and we have to wait approx 8 hrs. I do not know if this is causing his "backslide" (for lack of a better word). I am trying not to worry because I know that we have not even hit the half-way mark but is this normal?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 13, 2013 11:27:43 GMT -7
It is only the pain meds (Tamadol and Codeine) which were not given every 3-4 hours? Those would not affect nerve damage. If he was in pain you would see shivering, not wanting to move much, yelping showing he needs his pain meds given promptly and on time. Let us know what you have observed regarding pain. Was his prednisone given promptly and on time every 12 hours? Has the taper you mentioned started already? Prednisone works on getting inflammation down in the spinal cord. Swelling and pressure to the spinal cord is what causes diminishment of nerve functions as damage to the spinal cord's nerves increase. This is one med that is dangerous to the body's systems to not give it exactly and promptly as prescribed. Rhonda, are the front paws knuckling a new neuro diminishment you are just now seeing? Is the rolling to his sphinx position as in photo below or are you saying he can't rise up on his two front paws in more of a sitting position?  |
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 13, 2013 16:55:49 GMT -7
No the Prednisone is not given exactly 12 hours apart due to work. No the knuckling is not new but has come on again in the last two days. Rolling as shown in picture, he tries but does not always make it. He has not sat up since this started and got bad. Now if i sit him in a sitting position to eat he can hold it long enough to eat.
About the pain, he is moving gingerly and stiffens up. During massage he will pull back some
I am in my worry state again, i just want him to get better so badly and i want him to prove the vet wrong. Even though i am learning about this disease and treatment, i don't know what to do in these times. It seems to me, if i think about it, he is weaker and this is what i was seeing when he was in pain. When the pain meds were fully on board, i seen an improvement. Timmie does not show exact pain signs but if the prednisone is not working?
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 13, 2013 17:18:53 GMT -7
I am in my worry state again, i just want him to get better so badly and i want him to prove the vet wrong. Even though i am learning about this disease and treatment, i don't know what to do in these times. It seems to me, if i think about it, he is weaker and this is what i was seeing when he was in pain. When the pain meds were fully on board, i seen an improvement. Timmie does not show exact pain signs but if the prednisone is not working?
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 13, 2013 21:42:53 GMT -7
Hi Rhonda,
Have you discussed with the Vet that you don't feel the Prednisone is working? The taper of the Prednisone is to start in a couple of days but if he is showing signs of pain, it's not time to taper yet and it is important to inform your vet about what you are seeing regarding Timmie..
Since your work hours are during medication times, is there anyone else that you trust that could give the meds to Timmie at the right times? A trusted friend or a neighbor perhaps?
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 14, 2013 8:59:04 GMT -7
I have not spoke to my vet yet. I hate for him to tell me there is nothing else to be done. What suggestions can i give him or what else can we try? He has been on this dose of Prednisone since 7/5/13 is this enough time for the prednisone to work since he had been on such a low dose before? I know i read it can take a full month or so to work.......what are the signs and symptoms of it just not working? Again, is this normal for him to make progress the first couple of days of pain meds then nothing or even a little worse? It was right after i let the strict schedule go due to work. I am trying to find alternates for the meds.. Sometimes he looks as if he is shivering but i have to look closely.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335 
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 14, 2013 9:10:12 GMT -7
Hi Rhonda, Sometimes the prednisone has to be continued for a longer period of time to get the swelling under control. Signs that more time is needed on a full dose of prednisone is the return of pain when tapering off the prednisone. So if Timmie is still on a full dose of pred and showing signs of pain right now then he needs better pain control. I know how hard it is to get those medications in on time when you have to work. We do the best that we can. Nerves take a long time to heal - prednisone is to reduce the swelling in the spine so that the nerves can start to heal, and pain medications are to provide ease and comfort while the swelling is getting controlled. The only thing that heals nerve tissue is time - some days do seem to be better than others, and they do start to move more when they feel better, and they can over do it, the little dickens. I hope that your Vet stops acting like an idiot - if he won't help with medications then try to find one that will- there are lots of them willing to help and learn about IVDD too. Hope that this helps a bit - keeping you and Timmie in thought and prayer  |
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 14, 2013 9:18:58 GMT -7
The pain was controlled mon-wed then i, whether purposefully or due to work, started to make the time between pain med doses longer sometimes by 4 hours if i could not get back home. Could this have "set him back"? I am wondering if he strained his right side as he does not want to lay on that side and rolls to other side.
Sometimes 7 hrs [between doses while at work]
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 14, 2013 9:28:17 GMT -7
How long is he going between doses when you are at work? He may just find one side more comfortable that the other while he is healing - try not to worry.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 14, 2013 15:38:25 GMT -7
Rhonda, this is what you need to do:
1. Timmie is still in pain, so this is not the time to taper pred on 7/15. Speak with the vet about extending Pred 5mg 2x a day for a bit longer.
2. Timmie needs to have his pain better controlled. Pain management is treating every animal as an individual--not having cookie cutter prescriptions but being open to modification of dose, of frequency and the combinations of meds to see what works for a particular dog. The Codeine/Tramadol combo is clearly NOT working for Timmie. Advocate for your vet to try:
-- Methocarbamol for the pain coming from muscle spasms so often associated with a disc episode.
-- Gabapentin - this meds works synergistically with Tramadol to help to control tough pain cases.
-- Tramadol … are you consistently giving 50mg every 6 or 8 hours? Tell us exactly how often you end up giving it.
3. Work out a Prednisone dosing schedule that you can maintain as close to every 12 hours as possible. When do you leave for work, can you come home for lunch..what time and when does someone come home after work?
Please keep us posted on what changes and what the vet says.
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 15, 2013 5:15:35 GMT -7
I will call the vet today and speak to the vet tech, Carly, she is very good at helping. The vet never did tell me a tapering day, I was going to try if Timmie felt well enough.
So with the codeine, it could have worked for a couple of days and then not much of anything. I will be asking for methocarbamol, as he seems to be having the muscle spasms or gabapentin, I just hope that they are not very expensive but I will deal with that. He did prescribe 60 more prednisone pills the other day so we are set on that.
I have a neighbor that is going to help with the dosing of the pain med and I will find a way to be at least within a hour of giving the prednisone every 12 hours.
Thank you for the information, it is easier to deal with my emotions and to deal effectively with the vet when I have knowledge. I do not know what is "normal" and what is not in ivdd cases.....so what is progress and what is not progress (hypothetical questions) so I tend to get upset.
One last thing, Timmie seems to be bloated and his tummy does "talk" a lot. Any suggestions?
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 15, 2013 7:31:56 GMT -7
Hi Rhonda, Walmart and Target pharmacies have $4 generic prescriptions. Have your Vet write or phone in a prescription and make sure the pharmacy knows its for a canine. genericmedlist.com/Also when you speak to the Vet mention the bloating Timmie is experiencing. What food is he eating and does he have any other symptoms along with the bloating..Diarrhea or vomiting or ?? Glad you have a great neighbor that is willing to help. What a blessing! |
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 15, 2013 8:15:22 GMT -7
I did call the vet's office and spoke with vet tech. I told her the med i specifically wanted for muscle spasms and that codeine is not helping a lot. She did ask me if he was standing or walking. I said no but he is moving around as long as he doesn't have muscle spasms. She said vet was out until tomorrow so she will get back to me first thing tomorrow morning. I just want to get his pain under control so hopefully i don't get the speech about how he is not going to get better.
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 16, 2013 13:19:29 GMT -7
Update time, Timmie's pain is starting to subside with my lovely neighbor helping out. I think she is falling in love with him as he is her. She takes him to potty, makes sure he drinks and visits with him as well as giving meds. She let me know was setting up when she came in and moving a bit......progress. I did call the vet who is calling in a muscle relaxer, i will let u know dose when i get the med. This will start tomorrow and we will drop the codeine then. Of course when he feels better i feel better.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 16, 2013 13:31:07 GMT -7
Rhonda, this is wonderful news that Timmie is getting his pain meds are a regular schedule and his pain better under control. Would you say it is fully under control. You have a very kind neighbor to help Timmie and you out.
You know how we LOVE details LOL …when you get the names of the meds let us know what they are, what the dose is in mg and how often you may give them. Did you also get an extension of prednisone at the anti-inflammatore dose?
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 18, 2013 12:04:22 GMT -7
Hello it's Rhonda and Timmie again. Timmie has a new med, he is now taking 0.5 ml of Methocarbomal 3 x daily, codeine up to 4 x daily, 5 mg prednisone 2 x daily and 5 mg pepcid 2 x daily. I am continuing to give codeine instead of tramadol due to a mess up with script and i don't want to run out. On 7/2 the script states 3 x daily and the vet changed that on 7/5 to 4 x daily. Walmart says we can pick up new script 8/8 but we will be out approx 7/30 so i decided to stay with codeine but only 3 x daily to see how he does getting meds every 4 hours. He is getting pumpkin but i can use metamucil if needed plus deep belly rubs for his swollen belly. He seems to be doing well on this rotation but he has only been on this series for 24 hours and time will tell. He is rolling and scooting in his crate. Now hopefully is will just take time.
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 18, 2013 14:15:44 GMT -7
UPDATE.....PLEASE.....UPDATE, my poor little guy is panting and belly is hard. I took him outside to pee and he started dry heaving. I gave him the muscle relaxer at 12:30 then lunch at 1. At 3:15 I took him out to the bathroom hoping he would poop as his belly was hard again and panting very hard. His eyes were kind of wild. While out there, he started dry heaving. The codeine was not due until 4:30. I did give him some bites of hot dog, a 1/4 tramadol and a cold pack against his back. He did start to calm down after 30 minutes with breathing easier and eyes calm. I went to vet and they will call me back. Any Idea What I Can Do or What Should Be Done? Honestly, that made me want to end his suffering.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 18, 2013 15:32:45 GMT -7
Has he pooped yet?? Codeine is very constipating...that said he needs to be seen by the Vet, because what is happening sounds way over the top to be just constipation. You are right- he is hurting, but from what, is the question. I am not trying to frighten you but please call them and insist that you talk to the Vet RIGHT NOW (or Tech), or that they let you take him in as an emergency RIGHT NOW if it keeps happening. I'm so sorry that Timmie is going through this. You are doing such a good job with him - even though it may not feel like it right now. You are an awesome advocate! Please don't give up and do keep us posted.
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Post by momfortimmie on Jul 18, 2013 15:38:17 GMT -7
Thank you for responding. This is my last update. I took Timmie to the vet and after this last extreme bout of pain i had him put to sleep. We could not get his pain under control except for a day or two at a time and he was exhausted and hurting. I do advocate trying conservative treatment for all but it was not Timmie's way. He is now running and being spoiled by my parents. Thanks to each and every one of you.....God Bless.....Rhonda.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 18, 2013 15:40:39 GMT -7
Rhonda, I am so terribly sorry, so very very sorry that this happened. You both put up a brave fight, now it is time to rest. You will meet again at the Bridge. Tears and hugs for you,
Maureen
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Jul 18, 2013 16:06:56 GMT -7
I am so very sorry. I know what a hard decision that was to make. You did your best for him.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 18, 2013 17:36:19 GMT -7
Rhonda, I am so sorry. You tried so hard along with Timmie. Bless you for being the best mommie he could have.
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 20, 2013 21:31:14 GMT -7
I am so sorry for your loss of Timmie. This disease blows..you fought hard and tried your best. Timmie is now pain free and with your loved ones. Hugs
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