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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 2, 2013 14:39:50 GMT -7
Hello again! This is Sally, Hitch's and Vinnie's Mom! Vinnie, who is paralyzed with IVDD, had another episode, this time more in the shoulder / neck area. Of course it happens as we brought him up with us to the lake on vacation. Thanks to Dodgerslist and my Vet, I knew what to do. Got him on crate rest on Saturday, June 31. I had some Tramadol with me, and put him on that immediatly, (he was yelping when I would pick him up). Then I called my vet and explained what was happening and asked if he could send up a perscription for prednisone to a nearby pharmacy. He did so promptly. I had pepcid AC so I started him on that as well to protect his tummy, thanks again to Dodgerslist. After a day I decided that I might need some gabapentin. Called the vet again and he said to go ahead and put him on it instead of upping the dosage of tramadol. So for the last two days he is doing much better and not yelping when I go to express him and pick him up. Of course, this was very upsetting, but it feels so good to have some knowledge about what I am doing thanks to Dodgerslist. And it's true, the vet seems to appreciate talking to owners who have some knowledge and understanding of the condition. So, now we are on to 8 weeks of crate rest and my daughter is joining us up here today and is bringing the doggy stroller so Vinnie can join us outside in the beautiful weather we are having and not be chewed up by the bugs. Thanks for all you do on Dodgerslist!
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Post by Linda Stowe on Jul 2, 2013 14:56:00 GMT -7
Hi Sally, Sorry to hear Vinnie has had another episode. Looks like you did exactly the right things considering you were on vacation. Can you give us the dosages of the meds? We have an article that will give you additional things to help during a cervical episode. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm |
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 2, 2013 15:16:25 GMT -7
HI Linda!
Thank you for creating this wonderful site! Here's Vinnie's meds as of today;
Prednisone 5mg today tapered from 2 a day to 1 a day
Famotidine 10 mg 1/2 tab one half hour before giving prednisone
Tramadol 1/2 of 50 mg tablet now every 8.5 to 9/10 hours. Was giving every 6 hours
Gabapentin 100mg 1x a day
We have a lot of guests coming up, so I will be putting Vinnie in the bedroom as people arrive. Otherwise he will get pretty crazy. My biggest struggle is with my son, who Vinnie adores. He thinks cause he's not crying he's fine and Vinnie is dying to go play with him. My son thinks we are over protecting Vinnie and being paranoid. Oh well, that just too bad. He needs the crate rest and that's how it will be. I even put his wheelchair away for now. I am more stressed than poor Vinnie!
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 2, 2013 16:58:35 GMT -7
Hi Sally, wow..sounds like you got this  Coming from someone who had no clue and was totally unprepared for my furbabys IVDD episode it is comforting knowing that there are people who manage and give their baby's quality life. Ill be praying for Bonnie and have a good vacation |
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 2, 2013 18:12:03 GMT -7
Thanks Stacy! I was not so prepared when Vinnie went down in January2012. What a nightmare! But I found this site, and I read and read and read and got inspired and educated. this website is fantastic!
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Jul 2, 2013 18:28:14 GMT -7
So true..I have said it before but I don't think Fred would be walking without this site. And bonnie = vinnie..darn that auto correct |
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 3, 2013 10:02:11 GMT -7
Sally, have your son look at this video so he has an understanding of why movement can be detrimental to Viinnie's healing disc: Add this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD; plus don't forget to order one DVD for your vet www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm |
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 9, 2013 17:33:39 GMT -7
Ok...so a week ago today, things started to go downhill with Vinnie rather quickly. His pain was starting to increase and last Wed. Vinnie started to scream while eating! He was also showing some lameness with the left front paw. Now, mind you, Vinnie is a parapalegic from his first episode in Jan. 2012, even after surgery, so we were very alarmed as this made expressing him even much more difficult! We are 6 hours from home on vacation in Wisconsin, so we went to the local vet, thinking we might have to put Vinnie down, as his quality of life seemed to be deteriorating. My daughter and I were total basket cases. The vet we saw in Hayward, Wisconsin was so kind. He agreed that Vinnie was showing signs of IVDD Cervical , but he felt he could help him. He gave him a shot of Dexamehtasone and acepromoazine. Vinnie seemed to calm down and we went home. The next day was the 4th and the vet said, if he was not better by Friday, that we could bring him back...also, he told me to keep giving him pepcid and the Tramadol. He was not familiar with the Gabapentin, but said to go ahead if I wanted to. I was half crazed because I was scared that we were going to cause terrible GI problems! I felt so helpless to help poor Vinnie! He has been through so much!
Well, the next morning he still screamed when eating...but did ok if we hand fed him. Now my daughter and I were just sick, we were sure that the 4th of July was going to be Vinnie's last day Started him on 50mg Tramadol 3 x a day. We took him in his cage outside in the shade, and he actually fell asleep looking out at the lake. Then, in the afternoon, he started to perk up! He started doing better and better, less struggling when we expressed him, no screaming when eating. Drove home on Sunday (It took 8 hours! He slept most of the way and drank water, we stopped two times to express him and he did well. Its been good now that we are home. I am still giving him Tramadol, 50mg every 12 hours and Gabapentin 100 mg once a day. Also giving him pepcid 1/2 tab two times daily. His poops had gotten softer during all the trauma, but no blood. Today, his poop was back to normal1
We had his Hayward vet transfer his records back to our regular vet and she called me and checked up on him. She said to continue with the Tramadol and maybe change to 25mg 2x a day and see how he does. What a roller coaster! Both vets stressed crate rest for 6 to 8 weeks, and we are going to of course go the full 8 weeks. I've been reading alot on here about cervical disk issues and thank you all for your valuable advice. Sorry about the rambling, but I wanted to get this story out to you all...we learn from one another!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 10, 2013 9:11:39 GMT -7
Sally, is Vinnie on any steroid currently? If yes, what dose in mg and how often are you giving it? Is his pain controlled with the backing off of Tramadol to 25mg 2x a day? If he is showing any signs of pain, the prednisone needs to be on board back up at the anti-inflammatory dose of 5mg 2x a day to work at getting all the swelling in the spinal cord down. New members are always looking for IVDD vet recommendations, those who understand the need for strict rest and meds until all the swelling is gone. Please consider recommending a vet here: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting |
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 10, 2013 10:24:01 GMT -7
Hi Paula! No, he is not on any steroids at this time. Backed off on the Tramadol this morning, so far, so good! Will be giving him that dose 2x daily unless pain resurfaces, and then will up the dose as well as the prednisone. Also continuing with the Gabapentin.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 10, 2013 10:48:58 GMT -7
The taper has to be done for health reasons, but it is also how to prove all the swelling is gone and no more need of any meds at all.
Often it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. On the taper the dose of pred is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain. Pain meds are also at the same time backed off and stopped to get a clear picture on the status of inflammation.
Rule of thumb is:
pain = swelling = more time on Pred needed.
If there is no pain on the taper then it goes to completion. Then no meds at all are needed any longer.
I don't understand why pred has been stopped but the pain meds are still on board masking any pain if there is pain. There has been no proof that all the inflammation in the spinal cord is now gone. Have you discussed this with your vet why he is still on pain meds, what is your vet's thinking?
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 10, 2013 13:10:52 GMT -7
Not sure it isn't more my thinking. My vet really didn't say to give the pain meds, I told her I would be weaning him off and she said ok...he is really feeling like his old self, and wanting out of the cage today. He is being very sturdy with his front legs when we go to express him. Basically, just holding our breath to see how he's doing.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 11, 2013 13:06:28 GMT -7
Paula, took him off the pain meds today, so far so good! He' s just such a pig with food! I am spoon feeding him because he eats so fast and lunges with his head. You'd think I never fed him!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 11, 2013 20:42:42 GMT -7
Sounds like Vinnie is feeling good since he has a healthy appetite. So glad he is out of pain! Great news, Sally!
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 11, 2013 21:07:39 GMT -7
Thank you,Pauliana. Watching him carefully. He's very relaxed, but I do notice a little twitch in his left leg every now and again when he is sleeping. May call the dr. About that if it continues.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 12, 2013 5:43:30 GMT -7
second day w/o meds. heres what i notice;
1.have to spoon feed him, as he gulps his food and jerks his head toomuch
2.occaisional twitching of left leg when resting...very slight
3.he leaked in his bed this am
4. licking his front paws more than usual
I will be calling my vet today with these observations, but was wanting your expertise, please.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 12, 2013 9:47:25 GMT -7
Let us know if the leak was a 1x thing or is continuing.
Watch that licking does not turn into chewing or biting. Everyone has experienced numbness or pins and needles tingling in your legs when sitting in a bad position for too long a time. Your dog can be feeling abnormal nerve sensations that are mild pins and needles to quite painful burning, on-fire feeling that makes them bite to stop the pain.
You would need to stay on top of observing for any more signs of chewing on body parts as this can lead to death. Immediately you would put a e-collar on or a lengthwise folded towel and secured closed with duct tape. Gabapentin helps to control this kind of very painful sensation.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 12, 2013 12:06:17 GMT -7
The leak was a one time thing today, and it was there when my daughter brought him down for his first potty this morning. HE was very excited for breakfast, so we hope that he just had some break through. Will keep out a watchful eye.I have an e-collar and gabapentin, so it he does that more, I will alert the doctor and start him on the meds. Thank you for the alert. I am so nervous regarding Vinnie that it is making it hard to lead a normal life. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks that he has been on crate rest!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 12, 2013 17:29:45 GMT -7
Know how it is, Sally.. 2 weeks that seems like a very long time but actually Vinnie is still in the early stages of healing and now that you have a routine underway in your new normal things will begin to settle down.. The first two weeks when you and family as well as Vinnie are settling into a new routine with IVDD, during an emotional time that is very trying. Been through it with Tyler...It got better as time went on.. He is now almost 6 months out from his IVDD episode and all is well here.. We have taken all precautions to try to prevent jumping and running downstairs or upstairs.. We take nice long walks now and it's all good.. I was very fearful at first but after putting the precautions in place.. I did start to relax but he knows I have my eye on him.  |
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 13, 2013 5:48:58 GMT -7
Pauliana, thank you for your empathy and kind words. This has hit us so hard because Vinnie already is a parapalegic. We are concerned that what precipitated this episode was a vet visit were he went to get nails clipped. We have to take him there to do this because he gets so crazy wheneve we go to do this! He uses his neck to throw his upper body around. It takes 3 - 4 people to hold him safely and to cut them...and this is only for his front paws. His back paws are no trouble because he can't feel them. I'm worndering if we need to give him something before vet visits or nail trims. I have tried the method suggested on this website of gradually getting him used to the trimmer and giving treats, but he wants NOTHING to do with it! His nails were just getting too long and that's not good when especially after crate rest, when we need to get him back into his wheelchair!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 13, 2013 11:35:47 GMT -7
Until the time you can desensitize him to getting his nails cut, it would be best to give him a calmer for that particular vet visit.
Is this the video you viewed and have not yet found it helpful?? I would perhaps do this desensitizing over a course of several days before you even try to clip a nail.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 13, 2013 12:34:34 GMT -7
Paula, I never saw that video! We will have to see how that works once we are done with crate rest. Meanwhile, what calmer would you suggest? My daughter and I would really like to be the ones who cut his nails, so we will have to give this a try once crate rest is over. I wish he would accept the Dremel. I use it on his back paws and it works wonderfully! (However he can't feel it!) unfortunately, vet visits have become a major issue for poor Vinnie. None of our three pups love going, but for Vinnie, it is major stress. We are glad they like him so much!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 13, 2013 13:12:53 GMT -7
Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. ACE and other high powered prescriptions sedatives can have the opposite effect to excite some dogs…so you would need to give at home and see how it works for Vinnie , what dose, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Other brands of calmers may be available in your area… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label. |
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 16, 2013 5:56:16 GMT -7
My next question. Vinnie is doing well and has been of all meds now for 5 days with no break through pain. Because his disc problem this time is cervical, we have not given him toys or chew treats in his crate. He seems very bored. Besides moving him around in his crate, and putting him in the pet stroller, what can we do? Looking forward to your suggestions.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 16, 2013 7:54:44 GMT -7
Sally,
Does Vinnie like to cuddle with any soft toys? If he doesnt get too rambunctious you might try a stuffless raccoon or fox.. Tyler loves these things.. they come in small and larger sizes and he cuddles and finds lots of comfort with his.. He isn't a chewer though.. Maybe something to brighten Vinnie's spirits a little..You know what kinds of toys he likes more than I do but if it encourages chewing that's something else again.. Maybe playing some soothing music or something like that..
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 16, 2013 8:24:01 GMT -7
Pauliana, unfortunately, he loves to 'kill' his soft toys, remove the squeakers, tear out stuffing etc. He loves balls, but then again if they are small and squeaky, he will chew and tug to get the squeakers out. We have a ball with holes that you can put treats into, but then he's chewing and crunching on stuff. Will try the music thing. Otherwise, he'll have to be happy just hanging around us and his fur siblings!
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 21, 2013 8:30:50 GMT -7
Ok, this is a rather strange happening, not sure any of you have any answers, but maybe a similar experience? We have discovered that when we leave the dogs for the day,or even for a short trip out to do errands, that they start a howling fest. We have found this out because my son and daughterinlaw are currently staying with us as they are looking for a house to buy, and this has occurred more than once when the rest of us have left, and Vinnie and the other two are bac in their, 'holding area'. What is that all about? Is is some kind of pack behavior? Reminds me of wolves howling!
Btw the dogs don't know that my son and his wife are in the house when they do this.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 21, 2013 10:14:00 GMT -7
Hi Sally!
I am thinking the dogs are howling to get the rest of the pack (meaning you and family) to come back.. Wolves use howling to communicate to the rest of the pack in many different ways, be it in celebration, please come home and other reasons.. Dogs have many similarities to their wild ancestors.
Sending positive thoughts to you and Vinnie!
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Jul 27, 2013 9:40:24 GMT -7
Well Vinnie has made it to the halfway point in his crate rest. This second disc episode has been emotional to say the least. The fact that his back end is paralyzed from the first episode over a year and a half ago, and now healing from the cervical and is taking a toll on my emotions. He was doing so well with his wheels ans swim sessions building up such strong front body strength, and now to see that strength weaken, making expressing more of an issue ( he seems to tire quickly), just makes me feel a bit hopeless. I am so fearful that when crate rest is over, he will have another episode. I am reading, reading, reading and am living in fear of my other two doxies going down. This disease has really taken much of the joy of having doxies from my family. Thanks for being here to listen to my 'pity party', but I need to let my feelings out, it's good therapy I believe.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 27, 2013 9:45:36 GMT -7
We all need a shoulder to lean on when this happens, and that is why we are here! I remember that the 3-4 week mark of crate rest seemed never ending, especially the second time. I shed alot of tears that is for sure. Try not to concern yourself too much about muscle loss right now - muscle can be rebuilt.
Everyone is entitled to a "pity party" now and then, and where better than here, where we are going through or have been through IVDD as well! (((hugs)))
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Coming from someone who had no clue and was totally unprepared for my furbabys IVDD episode it is comforting knowing that there are people who manage and give their baby's quality life. Ill be praying for Bonnie and have a good vacation 
