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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 26, 2016 3:07:34 GMT -7
My wife and I are both in complete shock as to what has happened the past 48 hours. We have been in India and Sri Lanka on vacation while my parents care for our doxie, Moet. We got a call that she was not acting right at about 4:30am back at home. Said her legs looked wobbly so we instructed my parents to immediately take her to the ER vet. They sent her home without X-ray saying it was likely a disc bulge or muscle issue and saying she needs to have strict crate rest along with anti-inflammatory, pain meds and muscle relaxer. Later that morning or afternoon they said she was getting worse. She started having a nervous spasm or involuntary lift to her head so took her to our normal vet Dr Blonien from OSU (we are in DFW). He agreed she had a bulging disc and said X-ray wouldn't really help or change treatment. I don't know everything said but he sent her home with strict crate rest as well. He said surgery was not indicated yet. I believe at the time she was still using her legs but they were unsteady. I do not know if a deep pain test was performed there but would expect that he is certified to do this.
The next day she was worse again and by early afternoon I believe that she was not using her legs at all. My parents took her straight back to Dr B who sent them to the surgery center at 5pm and she was in surgery by 8pm I believe. The doctor called me afterwards and said that she tested deep pain and had no feeling in her legs or tail at all. She had a complete herniation at T12-T13 and mentioned something else about the upper L level, but I do not recall from the phone call. Surgery went well and we are waiting 24-48 hours to hope she regains pain sensation in her legs and tail. This was a bit shocking to my parents because she was not acting like she was paralyzed to them and noted tail movement at some point during the day I believe.
We are completely shocked and broken hearted over this happening so fast to our "child" when she was completely fine with only very minor possible symptoms of less desire to jump on the couch (a low couch, and we usually could not stop her), and one time a few weeks ago my wife thought she noted that one of her rear legs looked weird but then a few mins later she was running around completely normally.
We are still trying to get all of the details and specific timelines to figure this all out since we have been half way across the world and stuck on a 16 hour flight where the majority of this went down hill and surgery was started. We are most concerned that the deep pain test showed no sign of feeling in her legs and tail, but don't know exactly when that happened. My parents kept her in her crate as instructed so they only knew that she was getting worse when they carried her out to potty and had to help hold her behind up.
Thanks to all of the great info on this site I told them before we took off that it was imperative to do surgery quickly while we were flying home if she got worse, so we are grateful that happened, but we cannot figure out when her deep pain sensation vanished and the 12-24 hour clock for historically better outcomes after surgery begins. Can someone help with this? Is that 12-24 hours from the time they cannot use their legs anymore or from the first sign of a problem at all?
We are on our last flight home now and are going straight to the surgery center around 10am CT today to see her and get all of the detailed info that we can.
Additional information: Moet is 5.5 years old. Was very active before with daily walks and lots of ball and toy playing and chasing. We have always been extremely careful holding her and not allowing her to jump off high things like our bed, but as I mentioned above our couch it was difficult to prevent this. I grew up with a doxie that lived to be 18 and he never really had any back problems but ended up with kidney failure in the end. Our families have always had dachshunds and my aunt/uncle had one that also required 8 weeks crate rest conservative treatment for IVDD, then they later did laser ablation for preventative treatment.
Moet is around 10-11lbs I believe. Maybe 12. Very healthy besides this IVDD we now know about.
I have back problems myself with degenerative disc disorder and pain permanently caused by a car accident at L5-S1, so luckily I know a lot about the vertebra and nerves, however I'm still confused as to why a herniated disc in a dachshund can cause paralysis so quickly when I don't believe it does to humans, from what I've learned at least.
I'm trying to read as much as I can here on the board on my flight home to prepare myself as much as possible, but is there any specific information that would help in Moet's case?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 26, 2016 7:54:32 GMT -7
Curtis welcome to Dodgerslist. We are glad you are here. Being out of the country when all this is going on is certainly very stressful. I sounds like, though, the surgeon did the procedure in a timely manner and the hard part for us is having patience to let Moet's body do all the self repairing of nerves on mother nature's and his timeline. Keep doing as you are...reading, getting up to speed on the disease your dog was born with. Our treasure trove of information resides on our Disc Disease 101 page. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmJust a few points to expedite easing your mind while you are are learning all you can: --- A disc episode is not an injury, it is a progressive disease that a dog is born with. Often not until a dog is 4-7 years old when the first signs of pain happen, only then does the vet and owners understand their dog was born with the disease. --As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. -- Deep pain sensation once lost, often can come back. The surgery it self will cause temporary swelling and set back of neuro functions. In about 2 weeks that swelling should subside and you will get a better idea of the direction of nerve healing. The surgery does not make the nerves whole. It's purpose is to remove the offending disc pieces away from the spinal cord. Often we must think in terms of months rather than days/weeks for self repair if nerves. Dachshunds are not just short people with back ache. A disc episode for a canine is a much more serious situation demanding 100% STRICT crate rest in an effort to avoid a surgery. Sometimes even with the best of strict rest, the disc further deteriorates and loss of neuro functions may mean considering surgery. When the disc material invades the spinal cord’s canal that puts pressure on the nerves it causes painful swelling. Dogs are different than people anatomically!. The vertebrae go all the way into the hip area while for people the vertebrae stop mid back. This means for people with a disc problem there is not likely to be paralysis, loss of bladder control just pain as you have described for yourself. But with a dog, neuro diminishment is quite likely when the disc is in the back where the nerves get trapped and pressured by the boney vertebrae. Although even with a neck disc there is the potential for bladder and back legs to be affected. Starting a list of questions as they pop into your head will make sure that on discharge day all questions get an answer. Here is a starter list: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmThis page is good reading by Dr. Isaacs, ACVIM (neurology) as he explains many post-op questions for our IVDD community: meds, crate rest, PT and discharge day. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm#medsSee if there are any other things you can do to make post-op crate rest go smoother with these very useful tips and ideas: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm and www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htmWhen you can, do keep us all updated on Moet, how he is doing post op. |
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 26, 2016 13:36:42 GMT -7
Paula, Thank you for your quick reply. We got to see Moet around 10:30 this morning. The doctors said that she failed the deep pain sensation test this morning about 12 hours after surgery and they are not very encouraged. She had the herniation at t12-t13 and they had to clean up additional material from there into T13-L1. They found some signs of slight hemorrhage and notice that the spinal cord looked bruised. They said that otherwise the surgery was unremarkable, the only somewhat positive thing we've heard the past two days. They have a marker spot on the skin to indicate where she currently has feeling to make sure it does not progress forward with Myelomalacia. We are praying desperately that she doesn't develop that and the nerves begin to start allowing her to feel pain next time they test her. One tech said that she will probably be tested twice a day with the next time being 5pm tonight. We are scheduled to see her again 8am tomorrow. By tomorrow evening if she still has no deep pain sensation then chances of a full recovery seem very slim. By 7 days if she still has no pain sensation then they say it is permanent. This is taking a very hard toll on us right now. Her surgeons were Dr Chu and Thompson at Dallas Veterinary Surgical Center. The place seems top notch and I found the certifications and degrees for dr Thompson that seems like Moet is getting the best care possible. dfwvetsurgeons.com/surgeons/thompson/From your experiences with so many cases like this, does it seem her chances of full recovery are much lower due to the amount of time between onset of symptoms until surgery ( though we don't know when deep pain sensation disappeared really because there was no specific injury that we know if that caused the rupture)? We realize that no deep pain sensation before and after surgery is not a good sign at all. I'm very pessemistic about everything right now and we are horribly saddened by all of this.  |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 26, 2016 14:04:43 GMT -7
My Frankie had a disk problem in the exact spot about three years ago. After his surgery he had no DPS, although he had some before the surgery. He was in the hospital for 5 days after his surgery, still no DPS.
When I brought Frankie back for his one month checkup he was just as paralyzed as when he went into surgery, although the surgery relieved his terrible pain. It took a while, but Frankie now walks (with a little hop) and has bowel and bladder control. He has made a very good recovery from a similar situation to your Moets.
I am not sure if my surgeon even knows how well Frankie has recovered since I did not bring him back after the 1 month checkup.
The surgery itself causes swelling and therefore the true direction of healing cannot be seen so soon after surgery. Dogs have regained DPS months after it was lost. It is very hard watching our dogs recover from surgery, but please stay hopeful. From the thousands of dogs we have seen here at Dodgerslist, many have regained DPS and other neuro functions well after 7 days.
Nerve healing is very slow and we have to think in terms of months or even years but function can return. No one, not even a specialist, can tell how much healing will take place.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 26, 2016 18:00:58 GMT -7
Thanks for your story about Frankie, Romy. That is great to hear that he made a good comeback, even if it took a while. We are prepared to accept her condition no matter what, and would be so grateful if she could walk again as well, even if it's not a perfect walk or immediately. I know that I'm being pessimistic about her recovery but pretty much everything that could go wrong seems to be doing so right now, so I'm just running out of hope. We both feel horribly sad that this is all happening to her when we literally thought she was the healthiest dog we've seen and were told so by everyone that has ever seen her. She has been our best companion by far enjoying life to the fullest and just a really amazing dog. We realize of course that in the end she won't really care if she has to use a cart as long as she is pain free.
The latest update as of 5pm was that she had eaten some food and was getting some good rest. We are thankful for her appetite and hope for more improvements tomorrow. We go back at 8am to see her again and find out how the next DPS test goes.
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 26, 2016 21:57:09 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist Curtis! First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your Moet to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking after surgery or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm My Tyler woke up unable to use his back legs on Jan 28,2013 and went right into surgery later that morning. We were shocked and upset to say the least..Turned our world upside down at first! His surgeon said she would get him through this and gave us info on IVDD and what she said matched up with what Dodgerslist said when I found them online later that afternoon.. She called us after surgery to let us know that he came through surgery well and that they would keep us posted with an update later that night.. He recovered walking wobbly at first and gradually walked better as the weeks went on.. He is an active and playful dog today..who has occasional mild episodes and hasn't lost the ability to walk since.. Tyler has taught me never to lose hope! We don't allow stairs or jumping on or off furniture and take as many precautions as we can.. We know this is a lifetime disease but it can be lived with.. We have a great life with Tyler..IVDD and all! Don't despair because Moet needs your optimism to help in his recovery. Healing thoughts and prayers! |
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 27, 2016 8:41:48 GMT -7
We visited Moet again this morning and spoke with Dr. Chu. He said that there has been no progress with her DPS. They are checking it twice a day with morning and evening rounds. He showed us with a paperclip exactly where she can feel and where she cannot, and they are keeping a close eye on Myelomalacia around that area. He said that past 4-5 days post-op they will be much less worried about that. He also restated his estimate to about 2 weeks (when she has stitches out) as to when they think the paralysis is most likely permanent. He reiterated that chances are about 50% if they operated within 24 hours of loss of DPS, and around 5% if it was too much longer after that. It is very tough to figure this timing out since we were not here and there was no single major event where she immediately had pain and lost all motor skills of her legs and tail. The other two doctors before she was referred to surgery told my parents to not move her much at all, so they cannot really pinpoint when she had lost all motor skills and loss of DPS was setting in.
I reviewed the CT scan with Dr. Chu and could see that it was quite a rupture of both discs. The CT clearly showed white disc material enveloped around the spinal cord at T12-T13 and T13-L1. They did a laminectomy on the right side (all 3 vertebrae I assume) and removed the disc material at both levels. He said that there was some coagulated blood around the area of herniation and repeated that the spinal cord was indeed bruised. Seeing the CT and bad condition of the discs when I've spent excessive time looking at my own CTs and others is of course very concerning for her future.
We discussed laser therapy and he said that DVSC doesn't do it there since it's still not really a truly proven technique, however he said that we're welcome to start it as soon as her stitches are out and he could refer us to places that do it. We will also consider acupuncture at some point as well. Basically we'll do anything possible to try and help her.
They gave her a chance to lay carefully across our chest for a bit in the office to give Moet some comfort (and us too). She stopped shaking from being scared, ate a good amount of food for us, and then fell asleep on us pretty quickly - into a deep REM sleep with eyes rolled back and moving around and facial twitches. Clearly she is exhausted to go into that sleep so quickly. A little while later we let them take her back so that she could continue to rest. She tried to shift around a bit on her own but still hasn't realized yet that her back half isn't working. When he put her down on the table she started to lose balance and looked back at her back half trying to figure out why it wouldn't move.
This is all still incredibly sad and breaks our hearts so much to see her in this condition and we don't know how long it's going to take us to really come to terms with everything. I know I said it above, but it is just brutal how quickly this has all happened. It is by far the hardest thing to deal with as a puppy parent besides the loss of your best friend completely. If there were issues for her drawn out over years and she was 7-10 years older, I think it would be easier to cope with and accept what is going on, but she is so young and it feels like she's been robbed of her abilities. We do understand that eventually she will forget about her old ways and make due with her new life and ways, but that isn't making anything easier right now for us at all really.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 27, 2016 9:28:14 GMT -7
Curtis, it is very easy for the mind move to the dark side of things, replaying negative movies over and over again. Right now it is important not just to you, but also to Moet to have her pack leader project confidence. No one would be able to tell you if a dog can never walk again. We've had dogs self heal their nerves even close to a year out from injury when percentages said that would not happen. And thank goodness dogs are not able to read those memo's of gloomy negative percentages of permanent paralysis. We see all the time that a dog heals as much as possible and all the while gets on with the business of life, enjoying each moment of the day. Dogs are not like us. We need legs to drive a car to work. to the grocery store, etc. Dogs have us to pay the bill, provide food, love and a warm place to sleep. So see what you can do to make the transistion to learn from Moet....live in the moment. The past is history and the future is not here. Look for all the good things you see in a day. You had the ability to get her surgery with a qualified surgeon . Moet IS eating and resting. You had treasured time with Moet on your chest feeling your love and warmth. It is still very early in the nerve healing department... for piece of mind think months rather than every day being disappointed if there appears to be no nerve progress. Remember nerves are the slowest part of the body to heal. Depending on the degree of damage to nerves there may be just a little nerve growth needed and thus a dog may be able to move the legs in a matter of days/week after surgery. When there has been more severe damage, there may be quite a space between the neurons. It will take longer for regenerating axons and tip to spout to make connection to the next neuron. Regeneration has been reported at 0.5 to 9 mm per day. So when you see Moet put on a smile, do some happy talk and tell her everything will be OK... because it will. Soon you will see that is the case. My Clark had a surgery many years ago and for him his nerves were not able to self repair. He still remains the alpha dog, outlived his sister. He's still beat her to the kitchen scooting. Clark knows how to treasure each moment in the day and how to get on with the wonderful business of enjoying life. IF, if at the end of post op rest, Moet would need an assist of a wheelchair til more nerve repair could take place she'll still be the same loving, fun and wonderful companion she has always been. Life is a journey. No matter where you are in the travels, live in the now. Dogs know to take life a moment at a time and enjoy it for all it has to offer. They move forward in life in the best way they can. We can learn a lot from them! My Clark sends best wishes for a speedy healing and to remember to treasure the moment: Curtis DO investigate getting laser therapy started as soon as possible, not waiting til 2 weeks.
Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture send a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles). These therapies can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. When the nervous system gets stimulated it can respond by growing nerve endings. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 27, 2016 12:14:18 GMT -7
Ok, we'll discuss laser therapy again with the doctors when we see them tomorrow morning.
As of now, the expectation is that she will come home on Monday but we will see. If the doctors agree then we could begin laser therapy next week on Tues/Wed if possible.
Thank you for the encouraging words. We will try to keep this in mind as we continue to hit rough patches.
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Post by Kathy and Buzz on Oct 28, 2016 5:13:30 GMT -7
Curtis - I am experiencing the same thing as you right now with my Buzz. At least I was home when this happened to my little guy last week. I can't imagine how much added stress you had with being out of the country. My dog is home now in a pack and play pen and using a dog stroller so he can follow me around the house. I understand all the emotions you are going through. Hang in there.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 28, 2016 8:42:48 GMT -7
Sorry to hear about Buzz - this situation is horrible for our best friends. Yes being in the air oblivious to much of what was going on was torture, especially when at take off we thought she just needed 6-8 weeks of crate rest, then land 16 hours later to the text messages that she is going into surgery. I really wish that Cathay Pacific airlines had wifi on their flights so that we could have kept in touch with what was going on and maybe we could have read more on this site about what was going on and gotten Moet into surgery faster. Just don't know - it's hard not to second guess ourselves. We plan to get a pack and play pen and dog stroller as well. All I've been doing is reading about other people's experiences trying to prepare us for what is to come, but there is still more to do. Hate reading about bed sores and other complications though and really wish we could get a positive nerve test. Hope that Buzz starts showing some positive signs soon as well! Update as of this morning is that Moet's DPS test is still negative, unfortunately. Last night at 5pm she wouldn't eat, but this morning she ate for the nurses and a little bit for us. An appetite is always positive, so we're happy for that. We held her for about an hour as she fell into a deep sleep for us again. The pain meds are obviously making her drowsy and she is clearly exhausted. The Dr said that she is alert and staying up most of the time in her crate at the office with all of the noises and barks from other dogs. So we're glad to give her a bit of comfort and get some needed rest when we're there. It's amazing how quickly she is going into deep REM sleep with lots of eye movements and twitches. Her front paw where the IV was is looking better today. She had a bit of urine that came out on the blanket we were holding her on and noticed a sore around her groin already, hopefully not a bedsore. I don't think one could happen this quickly anyway. Tomorrow we will go see her for the 2 hours that they are open and the dr will show us how to express her bladder. Sunday they are closed so we won't be able to visit, but hopefully they will call and give us an update on her. Still no signs of ascending nerve problems related to Myelomalacia, so that is good news. We expect to bring her home Monday still, and by that time the chances of Myelomalacia will be pretty much gone. So, just on a holding pattern still as she recovers from surgery. It's difficult being at home without her. I've had to move baby gates and things out of sight to try and keep things off of my mind. This weekend we will get additional crate areas setup for her return home Monday. Here is a picture of her - wiped out.  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 28, 2016 10:40:29 GMT -7
Curtis good to hear that Moet is eating. What a very sweet picture of her deep in sleep with that bit of tongue hanging out. You might want to see the expressing video and tips ahead of your appt to get a lesson on expressing. You will get alot more out of the lesson that way. Also call to make sure Moet has had a drink of water an hour before you come so you have something to practice on when the vet places his hands on top of your hands. Here is the expressing video and all: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm You will also be able to express for poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poopAt home a memory foam or egg crate mattress will help with pressure sores. Some cooled decaf green tea will help if any urine gets on skin. Marjorie's tip: boil and cool decaf green tea to dampen a washcloth. It is mild with acidifying, antibacterial properties to neutralizes urine on skin and fur to avoid rashes from urine scald + clean earthy fragrance. You can also use unscented baby wipes.  White vinegar in a spray bottle to disinfect and remove the urine ammonia smell from floors, etc. Two spray bottles, one filled with plain white vinegar the other filled with peroxide . A spritz of each on urine and poop disinfects and removes the odor... good on linens, floors and other hard surface. Pre test for color fastness on important fabrics. articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/07/21/vinegar.aspxMy appologies for a mishap that caused your last post to delete. If you could would you repost that picture? We'd LOVE to see it in the Dodgerlist Photo Gallery. LOGIN www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/ : username: Dachsie password: dodgerslist14 Or you can email (owner's name, email addy, dog's name + photo caption) to : photogallery@dodgerslist.com Let us know if you get more updates and when Moet is back home on Monday! |
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 28, 2016 11:07:09 GMT -7
I was able to go back in my browser enough to get the text again and added it to my prior post.
Thanks for the tips on expressing and urine burn, etc. I went over the text and videos and hopefully it will make more sense in the morning.
I noticed on the link about emptying anal glands. That is something I had not thought of yet, and the doctors haven't mentioned either. The doctors have really only talked about expressing urine and that she will poop on her own. Do all dogs need to have the anal glands emptied on a recurring basis?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 28, 2016 13:23:10 GMT -7
All dogs do not need to have the anal glands emptied regularly. Healthy anal glands empty when the dog has a bowel movement. If the anal glands don’t empty properly, they can become impacted. A problem with the anal glands can be shown by the dog dragging its posterior on the ground ("scooting"), licking or biting at the anus. Impacted anal glands can be relieved by manually expressing. Otherwise nothing needs to be done, the anal glands will function on their own.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 28, 2016 13:48:35 GMT -7
Ok, thanks. And just to be sure, this applies to paralyzed dogs too? Still trying to understand what works and doesn't work with the paralysis of Moet  . |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 28, 2016 14:12:04 GMT -7
I don't see a need to express her anal glands unless you see symptoms that they may not be be working properly. The symptoms would be scooting the rear end against the floor, licking of the anus, discharge from the anal sacs, bad smell from that area.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 28, 2016 14:23:28 GMT -7
Well, she's paralyzed, so she will always be scooting her rear end from now on . I guess we will keep a closer eye on discharge and bad smell separate from poop smell. |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 28, 2016 14:32:52 GMT -7
It is true she may be scooting for a while. Some paralyzed dogs scoot along on their butts and some pull the back legs behind them. My Frankie was a scooter before he regained his ability to walk.
Did you have to express her anal glands prior to the disk issue?
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 28, 2016 14:34:27 GMT -7
Never had any physical [anal gland] issues with her at all prior to Monday
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Post by Julie & Perry on Oct 28, 2016 15:08:42 GMT -7
My Nala walks but bowel control never came back. I express her and she's never had any anal gland issues. Best wishes with Moet. Sending healing prayers your way.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 30, 2016 3:07:18 GMT -7
Update for day 4 post-op is that her deep pain sensation is still unchanged. We were going to learn how to express her bladder but apparently she managed to pee on the tech as they were bringing her in to show us, or shortly before. A bit confusing about her urination because one tech told us the morning after surgery that she peed by herself but the doctor said there isn't any way that she did without deep pain sensation. We asked the nurse and dr about this again yestersay and the doctor says he thinks it's because she is contracting her abdomen muscles. The tech said that she thought Moet knew they were about to express her bladder and peed for her previously. Who knows. This may be a good sign but without deep pain sensation in her legs we aren't too hopeful yet, but it's a thread to hold on to maybe.
I confirmed yesterday that a fenestration was performed at both disc herniations, so that gives us a little bit more hope that swelling will be able to go down as much as possible and there should be no further herniation from those discs.
We will get a call sometime today from the surgery center with an update on her today. They are closed for visiting on Sunday's, which is frustrating. We are trying to keep Moet's spirits up and let her get some deep sleep with us when we visit too, but hopefully she will get some good rest today regardless. We are on target to take her home tomorrow still sometime during the day and went to a few stores buying supplies yesterday. Major pet stores are definitely not setup for special needs dogs so it looks like we will be fashioning some of our own needs like the links Paula shared.
The immediate needs we are going through and trying to figure out are an additional crate so that she can lay down next to my wife while she works from home and another downstairs in our living room. Some friends gave us a pack and play they didn't need anymore and we will try to set that up today in the office. We are also trying to figure out how to get her normal crate up near the level of our bed. She previously slept with us in bed every night, so it will be a major change to all of us to have her in a crate. We tried when she was a puppy but the whining all night was too difficult for us at the time and we enjoyed bonding with her by having her at our feet in bed or when she got warm she would come put her head on the pillow next to us. We figure that she will have a difficult time if we put her in a crate and put her on the floor at the same time, so making one adjustment at a time might be easier for her.
One new question we are trying to figure out is where we should express her bladder at home. She is used to going potty outside and of course sniffing and observing all kinds of things when doing so. We could continue to take her out to do this, but we want to limit movement as much as possible so perhaps indoors on a puppy pad is best? We read somewhere that it's important to maintain consistency as usual with a dog, so either way we need to turn it into a habit.
Lastly, do we even try to figure out poop expressing or timing of her bowels immediately when she gets home, or do we save that for a bit later?
We are nervous about what to expect initially when we get home with her. We are going to figure out a place to start laser therapy this week and also acupuncture as well, maybe at the same place. It sounds like that may occur every 2-3 days for a while so we are also trying to get a good crate setup for her in my wife's car that keeps her stable during transport. I work full time during the day so will not be able to go with her to most appointments.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 30, 2016 7:21:31 GMT -7
It is good news that your Moet is coming home. Dogs always do so much better at home. Make sure you have your list of discharge questions ready. When I picked up my Frankie from the hospital there was so much going on I forgot to ask some of my questions.
If Moet does not have DPS she does not have bladder control and will need to be expressed. It is important to get that hands on lesson because expressing is a bit tricky to get the hang of. Maybe you can ask the hospital to give her water an hour before you come to pick her up so she will have some urine in the bladder. Do not be concerned if you have to be shown more than once.
When my Frankie came home still paralyzed we tried expressing in a few places. I live in a high rise so taking him downstairs was out of the question at that point. We used a pee pad right outside the crate. You can take her outside to express but being outside may make it harder for her to relax.
Having her in a crate right by the bed is a good setup. That way she can see you and you can touch her.
Poop is not the health problem that stale urine could cause but unexpected poop can upset the dog and of course will make a mess. Expressing for poop is a matter of timing.
Paralyzed dogs may not have regular, daily, bowel movements. They must go a minimum of every other day to avoid developing painful, hardened (or hard) stools. The fiber in pumpkin, along with water, will soften stools. Add one teaspoon canned, plain, pureed pumpkin one time per day to kibble with equal amount of water as kibble, plus providing water access during the day).
To know how long it takes for your Moet to process food, put a few small pieces of raw carrot or kernels of frozen corn in with dinner. The veggie pieces don't digest — watch for the stool with veggies and you'll know her digesting time.
We will be waiting to hear how she is doing at home. When you can let us know what meds she comes home with and what is recommended for crate rest and any PT.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,555
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 30, 2016 14:16:21 GMT -7
Curtis, you may want to investigate a pet stroller as one of the recovery suites. It would be easy to move Moet about the house as you move room to room. Also for pet visits, using the stroller to get her out of transport crate into the clinic, waiting room and back to car for one person could make life easier. Here are the considerations when looking into a pet stroller: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm |
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 31, 2016 7:07:51 GMT -7
Ok, we will try to do expressing both on puppy pads right outside of her crate and outside in the backyard in her normal areas if she is calm enough. We want as little movement as possible of course. We'll just have to see what works.
We are going to ask the vets today how her stools have been and I guess just have to see how that goes as well. We'll try to figure out how long it takes her to pass food once she is more settled in I think. She used to go every morning after waking up and then in the afternoon/evening sometime as well, but of course that was at her will and not just her bowels moving on their own.
Good idea with a pet stroller just getting her around the house. We hadn't thought of that and were thinking we'd only use that later on to take her on "walks" after crate rest is over. We have a 2 story house with bedrooms and office upstairs, so it will be a little more challenging than 1 story to get her around.
Update for this morning is that her DPS is still static. Also static on Myelomalacia signs - so that is good. We leave to pick her up in about a half hour. The start of our new family journey begins.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 31, 2016 13:45:56 GMT -7
We have been home for a few hours now and she is doing well. Initially after carrying her in we let her lay down for a couple hours across my wife's chest with a boppy. She's now in her crate on the coffee table staring at us both with a slight panic attack as we work on the couch, haha.
We've already noticed one potential issue with her unattended. When sitting in her crate she is licking her rear paws quite a bit. It may just be that she is trying to clean them off, or maybe she has some mental feeling of them even if she probably doesn't, and just thinks she needs to lick. We'll keep an eye on that, but may have to cone her for a bit if it looks like she's going to end up causing problems. The dr said the cone would only be needed if she licked her stitches, but we don't see how that's even possible due to the location.
She is setup to have stitches out Friday. We don't have any other appointments necessary at this time unless we see problems. They said we can start exercises a bit with her in a few days. We're also researching where we will begin laser therapy as well.
She's currently on
Tramadol 25mg (half a 50mg pill) every 8 hours, and
Carprofen 12.5mg (half 25mg pill) every 12 hours.
At the surgery center my wife tried to express her bladder but wasn't able to get it. I gave it a shot and the bladder was further back than I was thinking, but I was able to do it relatively easily. She didn't have that much urine really, so later today my wife will hopefully get a hang of it when she tries.
She is eating treats with no problem and a bit of canned food that we got like the hospital was feeding her (just to be consistent for a little while). They said we can go back to normal food anytime.
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Post by Kathy and Buzz on Oct 31, 2016 13:46:39 GMT -7
Good luck today.. Our lives have changed with out dogs. We used to walk 2 miles everyday and and play with toys in morning so we have a lot of adjusting to do. Good your wife works from home. I am sure Moet will be happier being home..
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 31, 2016 14:53:43 GMT -7
The licking of the back paws may be neuropathic pain. Everyone has experienced numbness or pins and needles tingling in the legs when sitting in a bad position for too long a time. Moet may be feeling something like this. If the licking becomes excessive or becomes chewing there is a medicine that helps control these potentially very painful sensations. The name of the drug is called gabapentin. More information on neuropathic pain: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/neuropathy.pdfI had a harder time learning to express my Frankie than my husband did. Eventually I found pushing the bladder with the flat part of a closed fist gave me more strength to push hard and overcome the sphincter muscles. Your wife may want to give that a try. |
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 31, 2016 16:28:39 GMT -7
Thanks for the tips on the neuropathic pain and expressing. My wife just tried again and wasn't able to do it, but I was. Moet is pretty small so I was able to lift her rear off the ground completely, holding one thigh in each of my palms, then with all fingers fully extended I reached straight across until my fingers touched under her, squeezed a bit inward towards her back, and then shifted my hands towards her rear. It certainly helps that her muscles are not tense at all otherwise I don't see how it would be possible to do this. We felt around quite a bit when my wife was trying, but really isn't easy to find right now. I don't think she has much urine right now. We'll try again with my wife tonight and in the morning before I go back to work.
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Post by Curtis & Moet on Oct 31, 2016 16:30:56 GMT -7
Good luck today.. Our lives have changed with our dogs. We used to walk 2 miles everyday and and play with toys in morning so we have a lot of adjusting to do. Good your wife works from home. I am sure Moet will be happier being home.. Yes, very thankful that she works from home and Moet is definitely happier here. Getting some good rest. My wife is having to sit out front in the yard to keep the trick-or-treater's from ringing the door bell or knocking though! |
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 31, 2016 21:57:25 GMT -7
Hi Curtis! Very happy to hear that Moet is home and is settling in. She is so adorable and so fortunate to have such dedicated care from you and your wife! All anti-inflammatories (steroids or NSAIDS such as Carprofen) can damage the stomach and other parts of the gastro intestinal tract. Proactive vets don't wait til there is nausea, vomit, diarrhea leading to serious bleeding ulcers from the extra stomach acids a steroid or a NSAID causes. The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) with a disc episode for doxies is 5mgs 2x/day (0.44mg mg per pound every 12 hours.) Get at the grocery store but FIRST do ask your vet in this particular way: Is there any health reason (heart, liver, or kidney) my dog may not take Pepcid AC?
It is best to give Pepcid AC 30 minutes before giving the Carprofen every 12 hours and always give Carprofen with a meal for added tummy protection. Know all about your pet's meds: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pmlwww.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html |
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