derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26 
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 7, 2013 12:10:56 GMT -7
My 6 year old dachshund chased a possum on top of my privacy fence 2 days ago. He immediately could not bear weight on one of his back legs and I thought he had broken his leg. I realized it might be more when he tilted over to one side while trying to stand. I took him to a local vet Friday morning and they prescribed him only steroids despite my insistence of needing other medications. I have been down this road once before with my older dachshund who has neck problems. He dismissed me and continued his assessment by flipping my 6 yr old from one side to the other while holding him down. The next day the dog was unable to move either leg. Of course it was a Saturday so I took him to his regular vet and he prescribed Robaxin and Tramadol. It is now Sunday and the dog has not improved. I called the neurologist and of course she never called me back eventhough she has a cell phone number listed on her card and website! I called the office and he is going to see her in the morning at 11:30! Of course they are planning on doing a MRI and if he needs surgery it will all be $4800! I don't know whether it is the right thing to do or not by putting him through surgery. The poor dog is peeing on himself and pooping. I am keeping him crate rested and expressing his bladder. I feel so helpless and am not sure what to do!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 7, 2013 12:32:42 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, my name is Paula what is yours and your doxie's name? We can best help if you can give us specific details: -- Have you been doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc. -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Pepcid AC should be on your list. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not to take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. -- Currently can your dog move his legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? -- While on a steroid, you would need to express his bladder every 2-3 hours to keep him dry. Did your vet give you a hands on lesson on Saturday. Good tips and video to help learn this new skill: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm-- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? Education will play an important roll in helping your pup...this is a very good overview: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm |
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 7, 2013 13:44:50 GMT -7
My name is Deonna and my dachshunds name is Bobo. He will be 7 next month. He is on crate rest. Definitely no sleeping in the bed or moving around. We take him out and express his bladder and I sit with him outside for a few minutes. No moving around though. He gets very uncomfortable when he has to pee. He has no movement in his legs whatsoever and does not wag his tail. He is pooping regularly. He is drinking ok and up until today was eating ok. Today he doesn't seem to want to eat. I did give him Pepcid due to reading it on this forum. He was prescribed Prednisone 5 mg twice a day for 3 days then taper down, tramadol 50 mg every 6 hours, and Robaxin 250 mg twice a day. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 7, 2013 14:10:59 GMT -7
Deonna, very glad to see you are beginning your reading program it is so very important to complete it. You will want to become the confident leader of the health care team.... to discuss confidently various issues from medications to recognizing if suggestions of activity would be harmful to the healing disc. All that takes being a reader. Do start with this very good overview: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmFor most dogs Pepcid AC alone is enough. For others 2 stomach protectors need to be on board. Bobo is showing suspicious signs of not wanting to eat that tell you not to delay...get sucralfate on board. It is an Rx item that you will need to read about the timing of it with with other meds. This is my go to place for looking up all my dogs meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmlOften it takes being at the anti-inflamamtory dose of prednisone (5mg 2x/day) for 1-2 weeks or even for some dogs more like a month before all the swelling is gone. On the taper the dose is lowered to less than the anti-flammatory dose and that is the time to assess just how well reduction of swelling is going by observing for pain. Rule of thumb: swelling = pain = more time needed on Pred. If no signs of pain show on the taper then it is continued to the finish and no meds at all are needed. Usually the pain meds are also stopped or backed off to give a clear picture of pain on the pred taper. So is Monday the date the pred taper begins? Does he stay dry in between expressing times? How often are you expressing? Do you see any of these signs of pain: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? |
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 7, 2013 14:26:27 GMT -7
I am trying to keep him dry and for the most part do a good job. The only problem is at night. Even if I get up, he still gets wet. I switch him from side to side when laying him down after taking him out. We express him every 2-3 hours. He is still in pain. Shivers when moved and tenses up. Yes, tomorrow (Monday) is supposed to begin the taper. He goes to the neurologist tomorrow so hopefully she will be more receptive. Thank you for taking the time to explain things to me.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 7, 2013 15:33:23 GMT -7
Hi Deonna, sorry to hear that Bobo is still in pain. Please address this with your vet asap. Ask if they will add in the pain medication called gabapentin. It is an excellent medication for breakthrough pain. Since Bobo is still in pain, hopefully your vet will continue with a longer course of the steroid, because pain means there is still pressure on the spinal cord. Remember that it is the strict crate rest and time that heals the disc while the meds mask the symptoms. Is he eating today? If not, this could be due to stomach irritation from the steroid. If your vet agrees, ask for Sucralfate to coat the stomach in addition to the Pepcid. Steroids make dogs drink and pee more, so once he is weaned from the steroid (when the inflammation on his spinal cord is gone), he should be able to hold his urine longer between expressings. Hang in there and let us know how things go at the neurologist. If surgery is an option for you and if the neurologist recommends it, here is an article to help you: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmWe look forward to your next update. Best wishes, ~Lisa |
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 8, 2013 14:18:55 GMT -7
After a long day at the neurologist, Bobo and I are home. We got our hopes up after an initial exam. When they took him to the back to do blood work and xrays they came back and said he doesn't have pain in his hind legs and will only have a 50% chance of recovery. This was horrible news for me and I immediately thought of putting him to sleep. After him looking at me so lovingly I couldn't do it! They gave me more medication for another 2 weeks. I was a disappointed to not see the Neurologist, Chauvet. Her intern was very nice but not really who I went to see. Chauvet didn't even call me back on Sunday when I called her emergency number but instead called me this morning. Should have been my first sign. Looking back I should have been more persistant. I should have taken him on Friday when it happened. Now I am left with trying to make the best out of the situation and not even sure where to turn to next. Thank you for listening and being able to relate.
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Apr 8, 2013 17:05:22 GMT -7
hello Deonna! Sorry to hear of your troubles with Bobo? A year ago January, our Vinnie went from playing around with his pals to 14 hours later, having surgery. His symptoms progressed very quickly, and by the time we got him to the specialist he had lst deep ain sensation. We opted for surgery especially after looking at his sweet face. We were given a 50% chance as well. He made it throough the surgery fine, but has never gotten use of his legs back. BUT, his quality of life is amazing! He loves to swim in the bathtub and chase his ball, is extremely strong on the front end and drags himself very quickly, we bought him a wheelchair and he runs like the wind and did so right away! Both my daughter and I learned how to express him and we for the most part, know when to anticipate his bowel movements . He is a very happy boy, but it was hard at first. Right now, our 2nd doxie is on crate rest as we caught him having some back problems right away. He is going through conservative crate rest right now, and is doing well with no loss of back legs, still able to poop and pee on his own, and is back to wagging his tail joyfully! Read everything you can on here, ask questions, and read some more. Don't give up on Bobo! Regards, Sally
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 8, 2013 17:38:58 GMT -7
Thank you Sally for your story about Vinnie. I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions. Does Vinnie pee on himself? If so, how do you keep him dry especially at night? Does he get many UTI's? How do you keep up with his skin so that he doesn't have any pressure sore problems? I try to take Bobo out every few hours to express him but he still ends up leaking on his bed especially at night. I put chucks underneath him and was lucky that the injury occurred while I was off so I could constantly change him. Now it is the week and I am back to work. I feel bad sleeping at night! I definitely feel your pain having 2 injured dachshunds. Abbie my oldest had cervical issues but I was extremely lucky and caught it early enough that she was treated with medication and made a full recovery over a few months. I hope your 2nd doxie has a speedy recovery! Sounds like Vinnie has a good life regardless of his injury. One other question. How much time do they spend in their wheelchair a day?
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Post by Sally & Vinnie on Apr 8, 2013 18:02:18 GMT -7
Deonna, Vinnie pees on himself very seldom. If he does, we use unscented baby wipes to avoid urine scald, which has happened a few times. So far, no UTI's. During the day, he wears a belly band with a feminine pad inside. The work well, as they wick the urine away from his skin. We always wipe him off when we express him or change the pad. So far, no problems at night. He got a few sores on his ankles initiallly and we cleaned them up and then used anitbiotic ointment and that really worked well. We would take a baby bootie and then use the tape that holds gauze bandages in place to wrap around the ankle of the bootie. that worked well. We are on our second wheelchair. The first one was from Dogs to Go and was made of pvc pipe. He took to it right away, put he is so strong and liked the movement it gave him so much that he flipped it pretty often, so, I broke down and got him Eddie's wheels and it is amazing! Sometimes he's in it up to 2 1/2 hourss at a time. He is able to walk up to his bed on the floor and put the front part of his body in, and leave the wheels and the back part out and he just rests whenever he wants. Having those short doxie legs really help with that! Keep the faith!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 8, 2013 19:16:48 GMT -7
Deonna, I'm sorry your neuro consult did not work out as you would have liked. Do know that the nerves that function for deep pain sensation can regenerate... only time will tell... so there is always hope in that department. What IS in the cards for Bobo is being able to return to a happy life after his recovery period.
Can you tell us about his pain, is he still showing pain by shivering, not eating?... did the intern extend Prednisone, did she add gabapentin in for better pain control you were observing?
What about sucralfate for the not wanting to eat... indicating Prednisone is the culprit?
When is Bobo's last drink before bedtime about 8 pm? When is the last you express before bed? If around 10pm then you might only need to check him mid way through the night. Let us know how he is doing as far as staying dry.
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 8, 2013 22:01:32 GMT -7
Yes, he still seems to be in a lot of pain eventhough everyone I see seems to insist on him not being in pain. He has been up all night crying and just seems so restless. He seems to really enjoy a warm pack on his back so I try to do it a few times a day. We took him out tonight at midnight. His last drink of water was at 11. He still is not eating but thank goodness he is drinking today. I have been able to keep him dry today. The intern did extend the prednisone but only for 11 more days totaling about 2 weeks of it. I am not going to continue letting him suffer! I will call his regular doctor tomorrow about the gabapentin and sucralfate. If he doesn't prescribe it, what is my next course of action??
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 9, 2013 3:54:14 GMT -7
Woke up this morning and he is having diarrhea and was laying in his own poop. He was covered! Not interested in drinking etc. Called both the regular vet and neurologist to try and get the suggested other meds. No one seems to be interested in treating him with anything else. I told them the only other option is to put this dog to sleep b/c he is miserable. I work in a hospital and seem to be finding Dr's whether it be for humans or pets seem to be so apprehensive about treating pain! Neurologist refused to add more medications as well as his regular vet. The neurologist is also saying that we declined surgery for the dog!! They were the ones who discouraged us from having the surgery to begin with yesterday!!!! He was in the back getting ready to have the MRI. How am I suppose to help the dog when NO one will help us even get the medications on board much less treat him! God I feel so helpless!!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 9, 2013 7:01:10 GMT -7
Deonna, this is now become very serious. For the time being if you have plain TUMs (calcium carbonate) in the house, give him a tablet ( but do not give any adult Pepto Bismol). Then get on the phone and make an appt with a new vet, tell them of the emergency nature of the effects of Pred (diareah this am, not drinking). Bobo needs help right now....sucralfate needs to be on board along with Pepcid AC of 5mg every 12 hours. The new vet also needs to tweek his pain meds to take care of your observations of pain. So describe what you see (any shivering, trembling, not wanting to move much, yelping, tight tense belly muscles, arched back) I know the frustration you feel. Now is the time to take that negative energy and convert it to postitive action in finding a new vet pronto this morning. Finding a new vet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm Tell us your city and state and I will check our database from our old support forum for IVDD recommended vets. I would also call back the Neuro, and tell them of the emergency and ask strongly but politely request they call in to your nearest pharmacy an Rx for sucralfate. |
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 9, 2013 8:10:28 GMT -7
I did call back the neuro they told me the pepcid does the same thing as the sucralfate. I live in the Tampa, FL area.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 9, 2013 8:41:43 GMT -7
Since this is a public forum and everyone including guests can see your personal information, I have deleted your phone numbers for your protection. Being a reader is required of us all. As you will read Pepcid AC works to block acid formation. While Sucralfate works in a completely different way to bandaid the damaged areas of the stomach. Did the receptionist tell you this misinformation or a veterinary professional? I bookmark the Marvista Vet webpage www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.html to start my learning with each of my dog's meds. I looked at the old support group and no one had entered an IVDD knowledgable general vet in the Tampa Bay area. I'd just get on the phone and find a new general vet this am, asap. This really can't wait. IVDD knowledgeable vet recommendation wanted
for Tampa Bay Area, Florida
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 9, 2013 10:25:14 GMT -7
The veterinary professional gave me this information.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 9, 2013 10:59:50 GMT -7
I just contacted some of my contacts in Florida to see if they had any recommendations. Hopefully, they can help.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 9, 2013 11:38:07 GMT -7
Deonna, Sorry, I'm a little confused, have you personally talked with Dr. Chauvet?
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 9, 2013 12:14:41 GMT -7
This all started Sunday morning at 10 a.m. when we placed a call to her emergency phone number that is listed on her card and on the website. After not hearing back from her at 2:00 p.m. that afternoon we called the office. They said she was busy and we could make an appointment to see her Monday morning at 11:45. She finally returned our phone call at 8:30 that morning. Guess my dog not walking wasn't so much of an emergency. When we arrived for our appointment Monday, she walked out to greet us with an intern, talked about how pretty Bobo was and stated that the intern would get things started. That was all we saw of her! The intern assessed the dog in the room and seemed very confident about the dogs chances for a positive outcome with surgery. We went there expecting to have the surgery and were prepared. We went ahead with the MRI and surgery. After the dog was taken to the back, I decided I wanted to speak with Dr. Chauvet. I was told she would come and speak with us after the MRI results. An hour passed and she never came to the room once. The intern returned to tell us that she reevaluated the dog in the back and things had changed. We were told he didn't have deep pain sensation in his rear legs which during the initial assessment she believed he did. It was stated that the percentage of a positive outcome was only 50% and it was unlikely he would walk again. The chest x-ray and blood work were completed resulting in a $600 dollar visit. This was not about the money though b/c I expected to spend $5000, simply about the fact, I am extremely unsatisfied with a series of events that continue to occur and lack of proper treatment I seem to be unable to get for him. Today, I called them again and yet again spoke with the intern requesting the medications discussed here on the forum. I was told that they all basically do the same thing..the tramadol and gabapentin and the Pepcid and Sucralfate and the Valium and the Robaxin. I finally gave up. It seems like a battle that I can't win.
It is like the moderator said earlier, I am going to stop wasting my energy on what has happened b/c there is nothing I can do about it. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 9, 2013 12:28:55 GMT -7
Deonna, we don't give up around here. We are used to fighting the IVDD battle and we aim to WIN!!! Join us this way. We regroup and the proceed to the next action that will help our dogs. Are you on the phone lining up a new vet in the Tampa Bay area to get in asap this early afternoon? Forget those who can't/don't help. Move on to the new people who can...they ARE out there.
Bobo needs your energies to get his stomach protected and his pain under control...those are the priorities right now.
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 9, 2013 13:03:02 GMT -7
Thank you for the encouraging words! I am just so sad today. I made an appointment in the morning at 8:30 with a vet that has always been receptive. He treated my other dachshund with neck problems and hopefully he will be receptive. I just hope! This forum has been the one thing I look forward to every minute of the day when I am not with him. I will update you tomorrow.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 9, 2013 13:15:10 GMT -7
Deonna, the concern is today, not tomorrow morning at 8:30 am.
Not eating is a BIG concern before this gets to bleeding ulcers or life threatening perforated stomach lining. Is he still not eating? Are his poops loose or runny? Please do update us as that is the only way we know what is going on. We are concerned here.
What about his pain, can you update us.... does he still show signs of pain.
Call this other vet's office and explain about the not eating even though you have him on Pepcid AC. Request an Rx for sucralfate to your nearest pharmacy so you can help Bobo asap.
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 9, 2013 15:46:44 GMT -7
He seemed better toward the mid to end of the day. He ate today cottage cheese, yogurt, and salmon with rice. He was drinking water and enjoyed staying outside for a little while today.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 9, 2013 16:43:36 GMT -7
Deonna, good news that he is eating. I was looking at the ACVIM website and found two other neurologists in the Tampa area.
Gillian Irving Tampa Bay Vet. Neurology Tampa
Yoshio Kimura BluePearl Veterinary Partners Tampa
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 10, 2013 6:52:33 GMT -7
Well, more news. He went to the vet today and they gave him all the drugs requested here on the forum. They stated he would only continue to get worse and that we should consider putting him to sleep. They said the injury will continue moving up the spine and maybe we have 2 months left with him.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 7:22:20 GMT -7
Hi there, did the new vet specifically diagnose myelomalacia? That is a disease that can follow on the heals of any disc injury. It is fatal, but the dog usually only has up to two weeks from what I've seen on this forum. Myelomalacia is a progressive death of the spinal cord. It is extremely painful and requires euthanasia. Here is a link on myelomalacia so that you will know what signs to watch for: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Myelomalacia.pdf However, IVDD is NOT a fatal disease. It is very treatable, either with conservative treatment (8 weeks of STRICT crate rest to heal the disc, plus meds to reduce inflammation and mask the pain) or surgery. Even dogs that remain paralyzed have wonderful lives! My dog was paralyzed for 9 months, but he couldn't have cared less. He went on about his business and used a cart - was very happy. At 11 months after his injury, he started to walk on his own again. Each dog recovers at a different rate and to a different degree. Some dogs stand up a week into treatment, and others, like my Goosie, require a much longer time. PLEASE read through some of our Success Stories to give you hope: www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htm You will notice dogs in there that had no DPS or bladder control who had a full recovery. Some dogs remained paralyzed and use a cart and are very happy. The only reason to euthanize your dog is if he has myelomalacia. Other than that, there is no reason because IVDD dogs do live happy, fulfilling lives, whether walking or not. Hang in there and don't give up. Best wishes, ~Lisa |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,928
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 10, 2013 7:27:30 GMT -7
Deoanna, kudos to you for sticking with Bobo and getting the meds he needed..... good job!!!! I am so very terribly sorry you are seeing a rash of vets who either let the ball drop or are just not comforatable in dealing with disc disease. Could you update us, list for us the exact names of all the meds prescribed. The dose in mgs you are to give and how often. Is Bobo now out of pain? Is he eating better now, back to eating his more nutritional kibble? Many dogs are lactose intolerant the same as people. So if you can avoid giving dairy (cottage cheese, yogurt) that would be best while he is on meds. We do not want there to be any confusion if he is not wanting to eat, what the problem is and what action to take. IF, IF, IF Bobo would develop myelomalacia it would happen quite fast in a matter of hours. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Myelomalacia.pdf It is true anytime the spinal cord has been injured another disease could happen. Right now there is no evidence Bobo has this disease and so for this vet to make a prediction that he only has two months left is simply misinformation. We do not put dogs to sleep because they have a disc problem. Educated owners and vets know you treat the symptoms of pain with meds, doe 100% STRICT crate rest to let the disc heal for 8 weeks. Then the dog can get back to enjoying life with the family again. I hope you will continue to read and re-read from our IVDD page www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmThis is one disease where knowledge is the best defense! Most DVMs in a general practice see many different species- hampsters, cats, all breeds of dogs, reptiles, birds, maybe even farm animals. They practice many specialties in the course of a day: pediatrics, dentistry, surgery, internal medicine. Is it surprising, that keeping current and indepth knowledge of each and every disease for every species is probably not likely? However YOU can easily become a mini-expert on one very-important-to-you disease. |
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derobe16
New Member
Bobo was not a graduate. He passed away.
Posts: 26
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Post by derobe16 on Apr 10, 2013 14:47:36 GMT -7
No, he did not say he has Myelomalacia. He is taking..
Prednisone 5 mg twice a day for 2 more days then taper down
Tramadol..50 mg every 6 hrs for pain
Prilosec
Carafate 1 gram..1/2 a tablet before meals
Robaxin 125 mg twice a day
Valium as needed
Gabapentin..waiting to receive from compounding pharmacy 24-48 hrs
Drinking but not eating well. Last night was the most he has eaten in 4 days.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 10, 2013 15:55:23 GMT -7
Deonna, you said that your vet said this: "They stated he would only continue to get worse and that we should consider putting him to sleep. They said the injury will continue moving up the spine and maybe we have 2 months left with him." That is why I asked you if your vet had diagnosed myelomalacia, because that is when paralysis "continues moving up the spine" and eventually causes the lungs to collapse. However, as Paula said, this usually happens very quickly; rather than two months. Just wanted to make you aware of the signs of myelomalacia so that in the event Bobo develops symptoms of it, you can take him to the vet asap. We gave you the link to myelomalacia which you can read.
How is his pain level now? Have you tried tempting him to eat with a special treat, like boiled chicken or boiled hamburg (fat drained off)? Hopefully once his pain is under control, his appetite will return. Hang in there and let us know how you're both doing. ~Lisa
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