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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 25, 2014 20:23:16 GMT -7
Can a Vet tell if a dog isn't going to never walk after 4 days of being down? I mean her back legs don't work at all but she can lift her tail..this is all new to me..I'm getting lots of information just no answers..the Vet never said anything about stomach problems after being on meds!!!
It's been 4 days and I don't have money for surgery for my dachshund ..I just don't want to put her down!!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 25, 2014 20:58:10 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Beverly! First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your dog to get back to enjoying life after recovering. In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? We are a group that loves details and they are important so we can give you the answers you need. ☐ What is your dog's name? ☐ Did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc? ☐ What was the date you saw the vet and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for this current disc episode? …. STRICT means No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? ☐ Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? ☐ How much does your dog weigh? List the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and times per day given? What was the start dose if a steroid, date of taper? ☐ Currently can your dog move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off of all meds and there is no more pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm☐ Can your dog specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? ☐ Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? ☐ If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Are you ready? Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmThe rest of the details of doing crate rest to ensure the best recovery in this excellent document: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmImmediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the 8 weeks of crate rest… as nerves may take more than 8 weeks to heal. Do everything possible to preserve the spinal cord with good crate rest principals! The true success with IVDD is measured by the most important goal of returning your dog to a pain free, happy and full-of-love quality of life after crate rest. Please know that dogs do not view the lack of ability to walk as a minus as humans do. Dogs adjust to what is and then get on with the business of fully enjoying all that life has to offer until nerves repair! www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmYou mentioned your Vet didn't suggest stomach protection for your dog. Some Vets like to wait until there is vomiting or bleeding diarrhea before curing the problem. It is far better to be proactive and prevent stomach problems before they start. PEPCID AC The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAID or Steroids. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking anti inflammatories. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the NSAID. Pepcid is generally considered a safe-over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for a healthy dog and good insurance. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory is in alpha order: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/stomachProtection.htmAdd this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDord.htmTape this flyer to your fridge so the whole family knows what things are emergencies: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfSending comforting thoughts for you and and your dog..
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Post by Cindi & Kytt on Jul 25, 2014 21:02:48 GMT -7
Beverly, A moderator will be along soon to give you some help. In the meantime, read the information www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm at this link. No, a vet cant tell if a dog will never walk again after being down 4 days. There is every reason to hope your dog will walk again if you follow strict crate rest and provide the proper anti-inflammatory and pain medications. Some of the information the moderators will need: Your name Dog's name Dog's weight Breed List of all medications the pup is taking including dose times and amounts. A description of your pups symptoms and what you have observed. First and foremost...is your dog crated and only carried out to potty then placed immediately back in his/her crate? Hang in there my friend. Read the information at the link I posted and take a deep breath. Cindi and Keeghan
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 25, 2014 21:24:01 GMT -7
She is now on a whole tablet of each of her meds. They did this yesterday on July 24th And she has been crate bound since the 22nd of July. I'll find the money for therapy. She is eating ok but can't poop very good. Poop is alittle running ..no blood. She will urine when picked up. Currently she can not move her legs. She does pick up her tail when trying to poop
Yes they said she had a disc problem
The meds she was taking are 12.6 lbs Dexamethasone .25 1/2 tablet 2xday for 7 days . Methocarbamol 500 mg 1/2 tablet 3x/day as needed She is now on a whole tablet of each of her meds. They did this yesterday on July 24th
the date is 7-22-14 Dolly weighs 12.6 She does shiver and tremble She will urine when picked up I seen my Vet 4 days ago on July 22 2014. And she has been crate bound since the 22nd of July Yes they said she had a disc problem My dogs name is Dolly
I'm scared and I cry everyday..as I see it she is never going to walk again..she has NO movement in her legs at all..she doesn't show any signs of moving her legs her tail only comes up if she is going to urine almost like she has to poop. This is so new to me and I've made myself sick because I can't stand seeing her like this. I all I want to know is when would I see any improvement or will I ever.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 25, 2014 21:30:03 GMT -7
Hi Beverly,
Just type the answers when you reply.
No need to put Dolly down. Conservative treatment consists of crate rest for 8 weeks, only out of the crate to be carried out to potty and medications.. Many members don't have money for surgery and dogs can recover with the right care without surgery..
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 26, 2014 6:41:03 GMT -7
Hi Beverly, my name is Maureen. To answer your question about walking again - YES!!!!! My little Stevie was completely paralyzed in her back legs too , and she too would only lift her tail a bit to pee or poop. After 8 weeks She walked and after 12 weeks she ran and healed - a little wobbly but she did it. Complete crate rest, diligent about getting medication on time regularly and using a long towel sling to hold her up to potty (to save both our backs!) and time. Don't give up! We will help you anyway that we can. (Hugs)
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 26, 2014 7:17:07 GMT -7
Beverly, stools are a significant indicator. Runny stools are the beginnings of GI tract problems due to Dex. It is very important that you get Dolly's stomach protected this morning asap. Pauliana, went over all the reasons why Pepcid AC needs to be on board. and the exact way to ask your vet: hrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid? Some vets are just not proactive as they should be.
Your vet needs to know about your observations of pain (shivers and trembles) Your vet has alot of room to move to get the pain under control that is is not yet using. Specifically strongly advocate for Tramadol as the general pain reliever. Gabapentin works synergistically with Tramadol and vet are finding good pain relief success. Methocarbamol works with only the pain coming from muscles...so that is what a multi avenue approach is needed with several kinds of pain meds.
Please double check the methocarbamol. You wrote you are now giving a whole tablet of 500 mgs 3x a day? This would be a VERY HIGH dose for a 13 lbs dog.
Hang in there. There is plenty of time for nerves to heal, that may come during the 8 weeks of 100% STRICT rest or even months after.
Let us know you have Pepcid AC on board and what the vet Rx'd to get the pain in control in one hour and to stay that way dose to dose.
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 26, 2014 13:25:38 GMT -7
Thank y'all so much
Went to the Vet today..got Pepcid AC one a day and Methocarbamol is on the high end but he said bring it down some so we take a half in the morning and half at night..he pinched her back paws and he said it wasn't good bc she didn't yup in pain but he said it's 50/50. He also said I can put her in the pool or a warm bath a day also. I do feel better just wish it was more percentage he could have giving me!!
He also said if the crate is causing more stress just to lay her near me if I'm sitting
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 26, 2014 15:22:01 GMT -7
Beverly, can you update the med list with the current mgs for each dose and how often you give the doses 12.6 lbs Pepcid AC ? mgs 1x/day Pepcid is most effective when given 2x a day. For a 13 lbs dog that would be 5mg Pepcid 2x/day. Methocarbamol 250mg 2x/day Dexamethasone ?mg 2x/day for 7 days as of 7/22 After getting wet, a dog does that shake thing moving the entire body. How does that fit in with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7? Not to mention a wet dog is slippery and a chance to cause major trauma to the spinal cord with unexpected accident. This vet is telling you in so many words, he is not comfortable in treating a disc episode. All the more reason for you to be well read and in position to say "no thank you" to harmful treatments suggested. So many of us have found it takes being really aware of IVDD and the treatments in order to protect our loved ones from those who are well meaning but do not feel comfortable in treating a disc episode. To this end it becomes our job to read and absorb all we can about IVDD. Here at Dodgerslist, that job is rather easy as the information has been compiled in one spot. We hope over the next couple of days you will have been able to read all the links and get up to speed on the disease your dog was born with. Here the link to book mark: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm I think that video there on disc damage quickly summarizes why 100% STRICT crate rest is so important, that crate rest is called the hallmark component of conservative treatment by the vets in the know. Just as no parent would let a child take an arm cast off because he did not like it, we do not let a dog dispense with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7. If need be give Dolly something to take the edge off and help her relax in her recovery suite. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/ Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Bach's Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation bachflowerpets.com/rescue-remedy-pets/
Is there still pain (shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, head held high or nose to the ground, not normal perky self)? What did the vet give to make sure there is no pain surfacing dose to dose. Remember methocarbamol deals with only one kind of pain and he reduced the frequency to 2x day. Discuss with the vet an option to give 125 mgs 3x a day so the level will remain more even in the body. Did you get an Rx for a general pain reliever, Tramadol? Pain slows the whole healing process and just can't be allowed when there are meds to give comfort.
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 26, 2014 15:55:39 GMT -7
I'm so confused..I've seen 3 different Vets..
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Post by Cindi & Kytt on Jul 26, 2014 16:37:09 GMT -7
Beverly, Every time you take your sweet Dolly out of her crate, you risk further injury to the disk. This is why strict crate rest is called for. Keeghan is usually pretty calm in his crate, but when he gets antsy, I give him something to chew on, and sometimes I cover his cage with a blanket. This helps. Is Dolly able to urinate on her own? When you carry her to her pee spot, does she sniff and urinate? Honestly, I've been through this multiple times with three dogs, and the best and most accurate treatment I have found is right here at Dodger's list. Read EVERYTHING here --> www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm Knowledge is power, and the more you learn, the better your care will be for Dolly. Cindi and Keeghan
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 26, 2014 17:48:24 GMT -7
No ma'am she can't urinate by herself..when I pick her up she just urinates everywhere ..I'm reading everything I can and listen to all 3 Vets..but I AM keeping her crate bound..moving as little as possible. No swimming or bath..just using wet ones on her to clean her. The Vet said to keep her on her meds for another week.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 26, 2014 18:46:15 GMT -7
Hi Beverly, You are still in the early days with Dolly's disc episode. Very scary and emotionally draining. Been there with my dog but I am here to tell you it will get better with time. I calmed my nerves by learning about IVDD so I could help my Tyler... He was paralyzed in early 2013 and he is doing great now, can walk, run and play.. Keep your spirits up around Dolly. They get very upset when their people are sad and worked up and they think they have done something wrong. Be encouraging to her.. Believe it or not, this can be a very bonding experience between you and Dolly. Has the Vet or Vet tech given you a hands on your hands lesson on how to express Dolly for Urine? What is happening now is she is overflowing the urine that is sitting in her bladder. That can cause a urinary tract infection as bacteria can grow if it's in there too long.. If you learn to express her there will be fewer accidents to clean up after. It takes time and practice. Here is a link with videos to show you how so you can get more out of the lesson from the Vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmSending comforting thoughts..
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 26, 2014 19:07:25 GMT -7
Dolly seems to be resting very well this afternoon..I'm going to keep my faith and believe she will get through this and will walk!!!!!
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 26, 2014 19:32:22 GMT -7
Hugs! That's the spirit!
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 27, 2014 2:55:35 GMT -7
It's 4am and Dolly has been in her crate all night but she just seems to lay there even when I talk to her. I don't know if this is good or bad. Dolly has always been a quite and calm dog..not much barking or wagging her tail..she always wanted to jump on me..I don't know what to do and I know it's only been 6 days but no change has been made? She seems like she don't want to use her front legs now and she is trembling..I gave her 125 mgs of her Methocarbamol Is she dying? I just want to hold her if she is She is just breathing and tremblingIt's sad that in today's world the Doctor's want help people out...I didn't have the money for surgery but it's not the case that my husband and I don't work bc my husband does work but I had to stay home and help take care of my ill father n law until he passed away and then his grandmother who was in a wheelchair ..we had to give up our home so we could help his mother take care of them..but a doctor or hospital can't take payments..nobody cares anymore in today's world..I got Dolly after losing my other dachshund from a snake bite..she is the one who helped me deal with all this and now she can't hardly move..I just want to scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Linda Stowe on Jul 27, 2014 6:32:44 GMT -7
Beverly, How is Dolly doing now.
Paula suggested that you advocate for a pain reliever. Were you able to get this yesterday? Methocarbamol is a muscle relaxer and not a pain reliever. You should get her to a vet immediately and ask for Tramadol and Gabapentin. Can you do this right away.
Where are you located?
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 27, 2014 6:33:19 GMT -7
Beverly I don't want to frighten you unnecessarily but you need to call your Vet right now if Dolly's paralysis is getting worse. Did the methocarbamol that you gave her 3 hours ago help her? Is her pain getting worse?
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 27, 2014 6:38:22 GMT -7
I'm located in hamburg Arkansas and my Vet is in Bastrop Louisiana about 45 minutes..but like I said I have no more money and they charge me everytime I go..my heart breaks with nothing else to do ?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2014 6:43:43 GMT -7
Beverly, it is important you take these steps right away.
1. Take her to ER now. It is important to get that pain in control. She has been terribly UNDERMEDICATED for pain. methocarbamol alone is not enough. I know there is an expense to ER, but this is really necessary to do for Dolly.
2. While at ER the vet can assess her and determine if another disease which can follow on the heels anytime the spinal cord is damaged. Not all vets have seen Myelomalacia because it is not so common. So print out this list of symptoms below to discuss with the ER vet
It is important that owners are familiar with symptoms in order to promptly get their vet's help at any hour of the night or day.
With Myelomalacia, what happens basically is that the spinal cord starts to die from the point of the spinal cord trauma moving forward toward the head. It can happen fast, within hours. It is a very painful ending.. making a dog unable to breathe.
There is no cure for Myelomalacia and it is fatal. Should Molly be developing myelomalacia, before she has difficulty breathing, you would want to help her cross to the bridge to spare a very painful death.
I'm hoping and praying that she is not developing Myelomalacia and is just that your vet has not Rx the proper pain meds. We anxiously await hearing back on what the ER vet says and what he prescribes for more pain meds.
Symptoms of Myelomalacia: * about 3-4 days into recovery, they become painful. Within the first week, they are in a LOT of pain. * development of excruciating pain (more than just pain from the original disc herniation) • even the strongest pain meds do not help * acute disc extrusion with no deep pain sensation * loss of anal tone, the anus hangs open, (anal flaccidity) and areflexia (below normal or no reflexes) * loss of cutaneous trunci reflex at a level more cranial to a previous evaluation over a period of hours to days with or w/o surgery * development of fever (normal rectal temperature is 100.5 to 102.5 degrees Fahrenheit) * sudden twitching or jerking of the neck and/or head * loss of voice, hoarse bark * can't hold body up, can't hold head up * increased respiration/ labored breathing • hyper-esthesia (over-reaction to any touch sensation on body)
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 27, 2014 6:43:58 GMT -7
You can ask them to precribe a pain reliever based on her history, so that you don't have to take her in. Hopefully they will be more interested in helping you and Dolly that in being able to charge you for a visit, as they have already seen her about this condition. You still have to go get the medicine, but it would cost alot less.( My Vet did that for us - so we know it`s not an unreasonable thing to ask) Keep us posted! Keeping Dolly in thought and prayer. (((hugs)))
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2014 6:44:56 GMT -7
Beverly, can you call in any owed chips, borrow from a friend, family. Will someone in your Church help you today?
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 27, 2014 7:29:44 GMT -7
I have no kind of help and vet isn't open but I had some Tramadol 50mg so I gave her a half...she looks like she is slipping away
Thank y'all for all the help you have us
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 27, 2014 7:34:59 GMT -7
Sending Love and Prayers....
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2014 7:39:48 GMT -7
My 13 lb dog was prescribed 50mg of Tramadol 3x a day. I'm hoping with the tramadol and the methocarbamol Dolly will have comfort from pain. I dearly pray this is not Myelomalacia...as the end is a painful one because the dog can't breathe as the lungs shut down and that is the reason to help them across to the rainbow bridge. Does your vet have an answering service where they tell you who is available for emergencies?
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 27, 2014 7:47:44 GMT -7
I gave her the other half [tramadol] ...
She is resting now and no trembling..I pray for a miracle
No emergency number at all..I'll give her the other half
She is trembling and moving her front paws alot
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Jul 27, 2014 8:09:02 GMT -7
Hopefully she can rest with the pain controlled. Hugs to both of you.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2014 8:10:40 GMT -7
Trembling is showing you that she is still in pain. Tramadol should start showing the pain is in control within in an hour. Tramadol will be effective for 8 hours. Methocarbamol is also most effective for 8 hours. Are you giving the Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x a day?
How is her breathing. Is is labored, hard for her to breathe.
Tell us in more detail what you mean that her front paws are moving alot.
Can she hold her head up to get her treats, her pills?
Hoping to hear that her trembling is starting to reduce and that all trembling is gone by the end of an hour.
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Post by Beverly & Dolly on Jul 27, 2014 8:13:53 GMT -7
She is breathing good and she was jerking her front paws but is not now..she isn't eating but is drinking..we have to open her mouth to give her a pill and we used food to give it to her so she doesn't eat now..doesn't want a treat at all
She is laying on her side and she can pick up her head alittle to drink
I gave her [Methocarbamol] 250 mgs this morning
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2014 8:32:05 GMT -7
There is no way for a vet to know that a dog will not walk. Surgery is not for everyone... for many reasons of health issues to not a financial option for a family. Dogs can heal under conservative treatment and if their nerves have not yet healed at the end of 8 weeks, then they get a wheelchair and enjoy life while waiting on more nerve repairs to happen. Think in terms of months to a year for nerve repair as they are the slowest part of the body to heal. Not all vets understand IVDD nor how dogs react to being handi-CAPABLE. That is why us owners have to read all we can and be a savvy IVDD dog owner.
Does she lift the tail if you are doing some happy talk specifically. Tail movement during potty times are likely reflex movements.
What we are talking about today is IF Dolly has another disease called myelomalacia. This disease has no cure and it has a very painful ending. The end can come fast in a matter of hours. For my dog, I felt it was possibly M at 11pm and by 2am I knew it.... I was at the ER to have her put to sleep.
Myelomalacia would be the ONE reason to help a dog and give the hardest but kindest gift...help them cross to the other side before the body shuts down the lungs as the paralysis moves up the spinal cord to the head.
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