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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 5, 2014 16:30:38 GMT -7
My little girl just turned 6. She is on her second episode. The first one she wa walking after 13 days. We are on day 22 and she still isn't walking ?. She is on crate rest and getting her meds. She is getting so blotted from the meds. My heart breaks for my baby
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on May 5, 2014 20:10:23 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist! I'm so glad you've found us! First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your dog to get back to enjoying life after recovering. YES, Your Dog CAN Have a Great Quality of Life! - www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmIf you haven't already spoken to your vet about the bloating you are observing, be sure to call whoever's on call at your clinic tonight to see if this is something that needs vet attention now. With this disease self education is critical - not just so you make sure the right things are being done for your dog's best recovery, but also for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place! Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Are you ready? Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmAdd this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm Tape this flyer to your fridge so the whole family knows what things are emergencies: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfIn order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? ► What is your dog's name? Your name, too. ► What breed is your dog and did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc? ► What was the date you saw the vet and started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for this current disc episode? …. STRICT means No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? ► Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? ► How much does your dog weigh? List the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and times per day given? What was the start dose if a steroid, date of taper? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. ► Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? The very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage is necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment nt once off of all meds and there is no more pain. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm► Can your dog specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? ► Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? ► If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html www.serenityvetacupuncture.com/index.php/faq_/ [one vet's overview/prices] Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. There is a page on the main Dodger'sList site that overviews the 4 Phases of Healing from a Disc Episode: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm I've found it to be such a great resource to read and re-read! Medications for = --Phase 1: total pain control dose to dose of pain meds, while --Phase 2: the anti-inflammatory resolves the swelling/inflammation causing the pain. Time and the Body work to = --Phase 3: develop secure scar tissue over the 8wks of 100% strict crate rest to protect the healing disc(s) --Phase 4: regain neurological function, which can happen weeks, months, or years later. The great thing is that there is no "expiration date" for healing nerves! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm))Hugs!((
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 6, 2014 8:34:56 GMT -7
Sabrina, thank you so much for all this information. Teeney weeney is a dachshund tweenie . 16lbs age 6 currently get accupuncture . My name is Holly ☺️. Teeney can't use he back legs at all. She doesn't have control of her bladder. Poops on her own fine. Is on her 23rd day of crate rest. Though I do take her outside in the stroller but she is on a flat surface and I have rolled towels on each side of her so she can't move much. Her tail wags a lot and she pulls her foot away when I pinch between her toes. Thank u so much for your help and support
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 6, 2014 9:14:55 GMT -7
Holly, good to hear about the tail wagging with happiness, that is a good neuro sign indicating there is potential for more nerve healing to happen. We are kinda in the dark until we learn a bit more about Teeney. Can you tell us some specifics: -- Would you list the name of each med along with the dose in mgs and how often you give it. Has there been any recent reduction of any of the meds? Is one of the meds a stomach protector such as Pepcid AC (famotidine) Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach by giving doxies 5MG Pepcid AC (generic name is Famotidine) 30 mins prior to steroid. Pepcid AC is a generally safe over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for healthy dogs. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm -- Does Teeney stay dry, is her bladder overflowing where you are finding urine in the bed. How often are you expressing the bladder. Depending which meds she is on she may need you to manually express the bladder every 2-3 hours. Did you get a hands on top of you hands lesson from the vet. Lots of good tips and good videos about expressing both for poop and for urine: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Staying dry is a health issue to prevent urinary tract infection. So do tell us more about the how expressing is going. -- Do you observe any signs of pain: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, head held high or nose to the ground, not normal perky self?
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 6, 2014 15:42:33 GMT -7
Hi Paula, teeney was on 5 mgs of dexamethazone 2 times daily for 3 days also robaxin 5 mgs 3 times daily for 18 days and 5 mgs tramadol for 20 days. After 3 days of dexamethazone she went to 5 mgs of prednisone 2x's daily. Currently just doing prednisone 2xs daily. She doesn't have bladder control and leeks often. I change he bedding every hour. And express her bladder every 2 hours
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 6, 2014 15:44:13 GMT -7
She was very needy but back to her normal perky self now. She isn't in pain or depressed like she was in the beginning . I wish I could say the same for myself ?I want my baby to b ok
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Post by Pauliana on May 6, 2014 20:44:47 GMT -7
Hi Holly!
Has Teeney's urine been tested for a Urinary tract infection?
It's a great sign that she is tail wagging.
There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag! Which Teeney is already doing! : ) 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
Teeney was on very low doses of pain medications when she was on Tramadol and Robaxin.. That's the lowest dose I have seen for a 16 pound dog with a very painful disc episode. Keep this in mind if she has disc herniation pain in the future, that your vet was too tentative in dealing with pain. I am so glad she isn't in pain now..
I learned when my Tyler had his disc episode and lost his ability to walk, to appreciate every little improvement no matter how small. When he wagged his tail the first time, I cried for joy! He is walking and playing and leading a normal life now.. Healing happens.. Keep the faith!
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 8, 2014 7:03:34 GMT -7
My Teeney weeney????I'm on day 24 and she still has no use of her back legs and no bladder control. It's breaking my heart to see her like this. Though her spirits are good.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 8, 2014 7:52:17 GMT -7
Holly, I'm so sorry you are stressed to see the loss of neuro functions. Day 24 is still VERY early to be concerned there is still plenty of time to have good hope.
The good news you report is that her spirits are good, so I'm taking that as there are no signs of pain surfacing. Please do let us know that you do not see ANY of these signs of pain: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy.
Can you tell us about the urine leaks that you have reported. Leaking is something you CAN address... it is a real health issue to be leaking. As your level of expressing skill increases there should be NO leaking between expressing sessions. Do not hesitate to express in the vet's office and have the vet tech check your work and provide additional tips. Please give us an update on Teeney staying dry.
A sample of urine for the vet to run a urinalysis can help to rule out a urinary tract infection a cause for leaking. When is the last time she had a urinalysis?
Is Teeney's stomach being protected now. Is she on Pepcid AC?
I realize it is hard to write details on a cell phone. Do you have an opportunity to use a computer? I have asked you important questions in pink so we all can better help. So we look forward to your answers in the next post.
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 10, 2014 8:15:42 GMT -7
I started Teeney on anti biotic for a urinary infection and pepsid AC . She does appear to be in pain . Her spirits r very good. Way better then mine .
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 10, 2014 8:49:10 GMT -7
Holly being in pain just can't be permitted it would be shameful malpractice if you have told your vet about the pain. So if you ARE still seeing shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy at any time you need to get to the vet today before he closes for the weekend and get pain meds on board. Prednisone is not a pain reliever. She is not on any pain reliever such as Tramadol, methocarbamol. Before discussing pain meds, these articles can give you good background information to be the best advocate you can for Teeney www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmPlease help us know better how to support Teeney with this important extra info: 16 lbs Prednisone 2x/day. How many mg each dose?Antibiotic - what is the exact name of it? Pepcid AC - are you giving 5mg 2x/day?
We anxiously await hearing that Teeney is NOT suffering with pain and that she IS staying drying inbetween time when you manually express her bladder.
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Post by Holly +Teeney on May 10, 2014 12:46:55 GMT -7
Teeney is getting 16lbs 5 mg prednisone 2xs, pepsid AC 5mg 2x, tramadol 5mg 3xs, ciprofloxacin 75mg 2xs , Methacarpanol 5mg 3xs
She doesn't seem in pain, and she is not staying dry at all in between expressing bladder
When I look back on what I wrote the other day it said that teeney wasps in pain and that was wrong she doesn't seem to be in pain
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 10, 2014 14:45:53 GMT -7
Holly, thank you so much for letting us know that Teen is NOT in pain. Pain free while healing is the goal.
Let see what we can do to help Keep Teeney dry. This is a real important health issue to prevent urinary tract infection. Your vet put her on Cipro because she got the UTI. There are two ways to prevent it. Fully expressing the bladder til it is so flat you can almost feel the fingers of the other hand. When first learning this is the tricky part learning to feel the bladder. So I recommend ot not hesitate to bring her back to the clinic and express right there. Then the vet tech can check your work and give you additional tips. Re-reviewing the video and re-reading the tips we have for you will also have you reaching the skill level you need.
The 2nd way to prevent overflowing which can cause UTI and damage to the tone of the bladder is to express often enough. Are you expressing every 2-3 hours? Once off of Prednisone you would be able to extend the sessions to every 4-6+ hours.
Share with us your specific areas of concern about expressing so we can be of better help.
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 11, 2014 9:06:45 GMT -7
I did show the vet how I expressed her bladder and he said it was perfect . I am happy to report that last night was a much better night. First off I got a side by side infant sleeper which she was much happier sleeping in next to me and also the times I got up through the night to empty her bladder he bed was only damp where as in the past it was very wet. As always her spirits are very good
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 11, 2014 10:59:45 GMT -7
Holly, wonderful to hear you are approaching the gold star level of expressing. Just a bit more tweaking of how often and continuing to express til the bladder is rather flat and that should have Teeney staying absolutely dry between expressing sessions!
Keep us posted!
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Post by Holly +Teeney on May 12, 2014 12:28:24 GMT -7
Day 28 , I was told to look for wheels for my baby . It's so sad . I hate to c her like this she wants to go but her back legs say no ?. My husband thinks I love her more then him which isn't true but I love her as much. But I know for sure she loves me more then anything and for that I will b at her every beacon call. From now until she no longer needs me .
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on May 12, 2014 13:18:09 GMT -7
Holly I hope your readings have served you well to avoid harmful advice of the well meaning but uneducated remarks of others about looking for a wheelchair even before 100% STRICT crate rest has been completed!! Graduation day is June 9. Only then will you be best able to assess the direction of neuro function self repairs and make the best judgement on expenditure of $$. It may be that dollars are best spent on physical therapies or it maybe that a wheelchair is a good decision to give Teeney good aerobic exercise while waiting on more nerve healing to take place. All that is unknown at this point in time. On graduation day you would begin a slow and incremental schedule of getting Teeney used to physical activity over the course of weeks. You may wish to peek ahead and get that kind of plan in your mind: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmHow's expressing coming? Is she now staying dry in between each expressing session?
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 12, 2014 19:51:44 GMT -7
Thank u Paula u r right. Teeney is staying much dryer now between expressions. The vet ask when he did her acupuncture today any improvement and I said she is not wetting her bed like she was ?so that's something positive
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Lola & Hurley
Helpful Member
2 paralyses, 3 surgeries, 2 conservative treatments. Now walking :)
Posts: 135
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Post by Lola & Hurley on May 12, 2014 20:47:48 GMT -7
Holly, I just wanted to point out something that you briefly mentioned in your post. There's much talk on this site about the anxiety that comes along with caring for your little IVDD patient, but less talk about the stress that enters your relationship or marriage because of it. We humans are all different, too I'm the kind of person who likes to do everything by myself "to get it done" and my husband often feels he is an outsider, asking, as you said; do I love my dog more than him? This, of course, is not true but you can't help the fact that these episodes take up a lot of energy and redirect your focus. Please let your husband know it is temporary, and he can be a part of the recovery process if he wants. My husband has been most excited about building ramps and fences for Hurley, while we wait for the recovery - maybe there is something similar your husband can do as well, such as constructing wheels for the crate to make it easier to move around, or...?
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 15, 2014 10:04:41 GMT -7
Thank u Lola that is a great idea .
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on May 15, 2014 10:35:42 GMT -7
Hi Holly! I was just reading up on Teeney's episode and what is going on. I must agree with the moderators and let you know that you are WAY TOO early into this to be considering wheels or giving up on Teeney. My Emmie did between 8 weeks strict crate rest with no walking, no wagging and no bladder/bowel control. She slowly got a little better with the nerves starting to reconnect and now it has been 3 and a half months and she can walk and wag and go potty outside. She doesn't walk perfectly and is still wobbling but I have confidence that she will improve when her muscles build up. I'm continuing with the acupuncture for her and do physical therapy with her when we sit together. As you've probably been told - knowledge is power so read what you can on this site. It is amazing and the moderators are so supportive and helpful! We're all pulling for your Teeney weenie. Healing thoughts from Em and me.
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 18, 2014 20:20:42 GMT -7
Thank you so much vita for the incouraging words it is so much needed. I could never give up on my girl . So June 7 th will b 8 weeks if no sign of improvement at what point do I consider wheels? We r doing acupuncture 4 xs a week now
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Post by Pauliana on May 18, 2014 21:40:44 GMT -7
Hi Holly, You can consider wheels after 8 weeks is up but even giving them wheels doesn't mean it is hopeless they will walk again. Some dogs have gone on to walk even after getting their wheels: www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory/goosieSullivan.htm Even if they don't walk again, they are happy flying in the wind with the aid of their wheels. www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmJust look at Paula's Clark and how happy he is! and also Tabby: Remember your Teeney knows where there's a will, there's a way..
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on May 20, 2014 9:08:19 GMT -7
Hi Holly! When you do consider wheels, you'll want to consider a lot of things. I know that Paula told me there is one set of wheels that is less expensive and ideal for "helping" learn to walk again - just offering support which, if the dog stays completely paralyzed can be converted to that style. Then there are other, more expensive, but more comfortable and more permanent solutions. So let's make that decision in a month or so - let's give Teeney and nature a chance. I'm not sure if my Emmie has hit a plateau with gaining mobility - she has a weak side and does knuckle quite a bit. The other day she insisted on walking in the park with the other dogs - usually she walks 50m and then goes in her carry bag - and she ended up knuckling on the pathway and sharpening her toenails into saber swords! So I'm thinking of wheels or something to let her go as fast as she needs to to lead her pack!
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 24, 2014 19:24:25 GMT -7
Thanks Vita, I have been reading a lot of reviews on different wheels and it seems the more expensive are more expensive because they are better and perhaps worth the extra money.
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Post by Jon & Frank on May 25, 2014 6:31:55 GMT -7
Holly, I've read your threads and I'm going through something similar with Rocco. If you look at my brief thread you can see his story. Not to be critical, but actually to help, it sounds like you may be expecting too much progress too fast? Something that really helped me when this first happened a few weeks ago was the "success stories" on this site. They are divided into "surgery" success stories and "conservative" treatment success stories. If you haven't started reading them, I highly recommend you go to that section and check out some of the conservative treatment success stories. They are labeled with a C. There are a number of stories in there where they did use the wheel chairs only to walk again eventually. success stories
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Post by Kari & Bella on May 25, 2014 10:26:09 GMT -7
Holly hang in there and stay positive!! I'll tell u what my vet told me, regardless of if your precious baby regains full use of her legs or not she will never know what she can't do! She will be just as happy as long as she isn't in pain and she has her mommy! And she can lead a full and happy life with wheels if necessary but give her time to show you what she can do on her own:-) sending you happy and healing thoughts from Florida :-)
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Post by Holly & Teeney on May 25, 2014 13:14:41 GMT -7
Thank u so much Jon and Kari it really means a lot as you both know what a difficult time this is . I have read other posts and it is so helpful . I keep reporting to the vet that is doing her acupuncture that other dogs started walking after 7 months and more. He just says well that's nice, I'm not going to give up on Teeney. I know for sure I would be lost without everyone on dodgerslist. I told Linda I want to get a car wrap that says dodgerslist so others know about it and know there is hope
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Post by Holly & Teeney on Jun 1, 2014 5:40:28 GMT -7
June 7th is the last day of my babies 8 week crate rest. She still isn't walking but she moves her back legs and as always her tail is always wagging. We are doing acupuncture 4 days a week and one day it's electrical stimulated acupuncture. I'm going to measure her soon to order some wheels for her. ? the vet said I should start to cut her prednisone dose. She isn't in pain and is happy as can b.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jun 1, 2014 6:57:47 GMT -7
If the vet is just now starting to taper her off of Prednisone, unfortunately Teeney will not be able to graduate from crate rest on June 7. She would need to be off of all meds and completely pain free for at least a week before graduating. Until the Prednisone is completely tapered off, there is no way of knowing if there is still swelling. Until there is confirmation that there is no swelling (by going off the steroid with no pain returning), she would still need to have her movement restricted.
During the taper of the Prednisone, it will be your job to be on the close lookout for any signs of pain. If you see any sign of pain returning, you would need to immediately notify your vet so Teeney can be returned to the original anti-inflammatory dose of the steroid. Pain = swelling = more time on meds.
Continue to give the Pepcid AC every 12 hours even during the taper of the Prednisone until the Prednisone is stopped.
We recommend that the ordering of a cart wait until 6 weeks after crate rest has ended. Until movement is gradually re-introduced and muscle strength is built up again, it's difficult to tell just how much movement they'll have once out of the crate. She may be moving more once her strength is built up again and you might want to use the money for more PT or water therapy rather than a cart.
Please keep us updated during the taper of the Prednisone.
Prayers for a pain-free taper for Teeney.
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