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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 26, 2014 17:25:14 GMT -7
I was here last summer with my dog Axel, and now we're reliving this with Hope. Axel made a pretty awesome and full-ish recovery (he has a different gait now) last summer on crate rest, and we're hoping so hard that our little Hope will also respond well to crate rest. I'm heartbroken that both my babies have had to go through this. Hope, 12 lbs Miniature dachshund, no official diagnosis, but pretty obvious it's the same as her furbrother went through. She just turned 5 in December. After Axel's issues last summer, we were pretty strict about trying to prevent jumps from the couch, but she'd sneak by sometimes. We also have hardword and tile floors with a few floor rugs, but we know that they do quite a bit of scrabbling on the floor to get around corners when the doorbell rings.  April 11th was the first day something was wrong with her, sore, tight tummy, didn't want to eat, walking slowly. She has had gastro issues in the past with gas and assumed it might be related to that. Saw the vet on the 12th, 14th and 17th, each time we were worried it was her stomach and possibly her back, so at least she was on restricted movement, but not strict crate rest. She had a normal gait, a good "bounce" to her trot, immediately corrected her paws when they were folded over and repositioned her feet whenever they were moved out of normal alignment. She did have an x-ray done that showed her C8 and C9 vertebrae looked closer together than any other vertebrae in her back. April 25, 2014 (unfortunately) is when she lost some control of her back end. She never responded to any palpitation of her spine, and presented as a gastro problem for over a week (tight belly, pain, refusal to eat unless encouraged) that didn't seem to be able to resolve. Then, as of yesterday, she lost control of her back left leg pretty completely and her back right leg seems very weak.
Only anticipatory shivering when we open her crate to take her out to potty, otherwise, she seems pretty comfortable. 2.5mg prednisone in the AM, 5mg prednisone in PM half a 10 mg Pepcid in the AM She was put on the 2.5mg of prednisone in case it was her back, and after she lost control, it was upped. Was on Tramadol, but it slowed her intestines down and caused constipation, and then was given something to help soften her stools which caused stomach cramps - which I believe contributed to her worsening condition due to the muscle spasms. She doesn't want to try. When supported with a sling, she takes steps, but drags her left leg. She can still wag her tail. She still has deep pain sensation in her rear right foot, and some remains in her rear left foot, but I really have to pinch extremely hard before she notices.
Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Yes, but she's always been a nervous piddler, so we're not sure if she's losing control of her bladder or if she's peeing in anticipation of it hurting when we take her out to potty on a pee pad. Yes, still a good appetite now that her stomach seems to feel better. Poops OK - Yes. She's holding it as long as possible and then it comes out in a big rush, but she's also been a shy pooper. |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 26, 2014 19:32:37 GMT -7
Welcome back to Dodgerslist Hester! Glad to hear Axel is doing very well but so sorry to hear that Hope is having a disc episode. You know from experience how well crate rest works to heal the disc or discs involved along with medications as long as they are needed.
I noticed one of her doses of Prednisone isn't up to the anti inflammatory dose which is 5mg every 12 hours. It takes from 7 to 30 days at the anti inflammatory dosein order for the swelling to go down.. Sometime during that time the Vet will want to try a test taper to see if the swelling has gone down. But in the meantime it would be a good idea to be on the 5mg every 12 hours. Please speak to your Vet about this..
Also Pepcid AC needs to be given 30 minutes prior to the Prednisone every 12 hours.
It sounds to me Hope is still in pain if she is reluctant about being moved out of her crate and shivering, and how she waits as long as possible to potty. Dogs tend to be stoic and hide obvious signs of pain, she is showing you in other ways that she needs pain relief. Tramadol and other pain relievers can cause constipation but they are better off having relief from pain. Pain slows down healing. Please discuss with your Vet about putting her back on the Tramadol or Methocarbamol if she is having muscle spasms..
Laxatives are very hard on a dog with a disc episode as you noticed with her stomach cramps.. Pumpkin is a much better choice as it works very well to loosen the stool without the pain of stomach cramps.
Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato..
Healing thoughts and prayers for Hope and comforting thoughts for you..
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 26, 2014 19:57:00 GMT -7
We tried the pumpkin, and lots of water, and she still wouldn't go. She's stubborn about pooping when she's feeling fine, so she was really holding it and her stomach wasn't clearing so the laxative was a last resort.
The vet is closed now for the weekend, so first thing Monday I will be calling him to talk about more pain medication for her. She isn't shivering or crying, and she's stretched out on her side just resting, and I'm confident that she isn't in pain, or at least not in extreme pain, as I had watched her in pain for the past week previously and the signs were very obvious. She is a very tough and stoic dog usually, so it's something I've learned to watch for. When I fed her supper to her (in her crate) tonight, she did her little happy dance of shifting back and forth on her front paws, and seemed to have a great appetite, so that was encouraging. I pet her for a while as she lay in her crate and she really seemed to enjoy that too. She's asleep right now, and for that I'm glad.
I will increase her dose to 5mg every 12 hours for tomorrow. I will check with the vet on Monday so that he knows what's going on. He's very supportive of anything I prefer to do in terms of crating vs surgery, and he is a good listener when it comes to discussing options.
I have seen the miracle of crate rest with Axel, and I am hoping so much that our Hope will also respond this way.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 26, 2014 20:26:21 GMT -7
Hi Hester,
Glad she is resting comfortably.. She's in great hands! Happy to hear you have a supportive vet. That helps so much!
Thanks for keeping us updated!
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 27, 2014 7:54:27 GMT -7
Hope greeted us this morning by standing in her crate and doing a happy dance, and I felt so optimistic, but when we lifted her out to potty, she still had no real control over her legs. I was so surprised because she did STAND when she was excited to see us. I knuckled over her back paws and she stood on them knuckled over (she was in a sling for support) without any attempt to correct it, which is worse than yesterday where she at least slowly corrected her right rear leg. She is wagging her tail like crazy, though, so that's good. I pinched her toes, and she squeaked with her left, and just kind of pulled away and sniffed at her right when I pinched it. That upset me as well as it seems as though she definitely has loss of some sensation there. Again, yesterday it seemed like her right leg was much better than her left, but now it seems the right is catching up. Is this a normal progression until the prednisone can really kick in and start reducing inflammation?
She's been having poop accidents in her crate, and we're not sure if that's loss of control or the fact that she's so full and she just really has to go. My dogs are pee-pad trained anyway, and they have their own personal room set up with a potty area at all times, so she's not used to having to hold it.
When we just took her out again to potty, she did the girl "pee" stance with her legs spread wide, but her tail didn't go up like it usually does.
Her appetite was good this morning, and she seems bright and happy.
She's now in her crate in a patch of sunshine, we've been moving it around the kitchen all morning so she can sunbathe like she usually would.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member 
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471 
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Post by Sabrina on Apr 27, 2014 11:21:52 GMT -7
Hi Hester! I'm so sorry Hope is having a disc episode - ))Hugs!(( Regressing of progress/worsening of neuro function is something to speak with your vet about - is there anyone on call you could speak with today? Here's a great list to print out and put on your fridge so that everyone in the household knows what to be on the lookout for: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfWhen Hope pooped in her crate, did the poo look normal? Or was it soft/loose? Any dark or bright blood? It's great that you are so observant of Hope! But it's best not to pinch her feet. Deep Pain Sensation is only correctly identified by a specialist, and you don't want Hope to hurt herself jerking her foot away! If Hope can still wag her tail, sniff an old pee spot and release urine, and push herself up to stand, she still has Deep Pain Sensation: As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down) 6. Bladder control is lost 7. Tail wagging with joy is lost 8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function (only correctly identified by a specialist) www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmYou are such a good care-taker to move her crate around so she can nap in the sunshine! ))Hugs!(( |
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 27, 2014 11:36:37 GMT -7
I have no idea why my posts are randomly bolding certain phrases and colouring others. It looks like I'm doing it on purpose, but I'm not!
Her poop is "pebbly" because it's dry despite giving her 1 tsp of pumpkin with quite a bit of water with her meals (it looks like pumpkin soup with some kibble floating in it). It's the right colour. She's not shaking or squeaking with pain when it comes out. Last night after she peed, and I was putting her back in her crate, she started pooping and I watched it come out (I know, the things we do for our dogs!) and it looked like she was pushing it out because she "closed up shop" afterwards totally normally. She seemed embarrassed that she'd messed herself, which is completely normal for her because she's very private about that and it's rare that I actually witness her poop.
I just put her on the pee pad to try to potty, and she walked a few steps with her sling, so her legs are moving! I was happy to see that she wasn't just walking 3-4 steps with her front legs and dragging her back legs. She's now snoring in her crate, and it seems as though she's having quite the dream as all 4 legs are twitching. Never thought I'd be so happy to see that!
Our vet is closed today, and money is something that we are a little tight on right now. I will consult with my vet on Monday, who is awesome and calls me on the phone to discuss items that usually another vet would charge me for. We were treating her for a stomach ailment because I was so adamant that she had no loss of control for over a week, that she wasn't aggressively treated for her back (which I regret, I feel so stupid because I know what this is all about by now - this is my third dog that has had a back issue). Her prednisone wasn't at therapeutic levels, and so today is the first full day she's having that, so I can see how her neurological symptoms worsened.
She isn't in pain today, which is a blessing, but probably because of the "numbing" happening. She's happy and bright-eyed, and sleeping well. That wasn't the case a few days ago.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 27, 2014 11:53:29 GMT -7
Hester, moderators boldface important clues to help us with comments about Hope. Things in red are a red flag warning to us that we want to be sure to mention to you.
I would try soaking each of her kibble meal in equal part of liquid overnight in the refrigerator. At meal time you an slightly warm the soaked kibble and add the 1 teaspsoon 1x a day pureed pumpkin
Very good she is not in pain. And best yet is back legs moving during a dream and taking a few steps with back legs at potty time.
I would refrain from pinching toes. Many general DVM vets do not have a practiced eye in doing a neuro exam to correctly identify what they see. So you are not likely to learn anything from causing the leg reflexes to activate only causing undo movement of the back. Everything we do under conservative treatment is to limit movement of the back. The list Sabrina posted to you awhile back shows that of course Hope has deep pain sensation, so no need of testing for that with pinching.
I see on another's thread you mention Robaxin. Is Hope on Roboxin (?mg/—x/day) now or only on Pred?
Let us know what your vet says on Monday.
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 27, 2014 13:45:04 GMT -7
She WAS on Robaxin when she had full motion and we weren't sure if it was her back or her stomach causing her issues. Like I said, she'd had issues with gas in the past causing her extreme pain, refusal to eat, screaming out loud when picked up, etc. (when she was a puppy) and one big fart cured it all.
LOL, I had no idea what was happening with my bold and red writing because I wasn't doing it. Good to know!
She is currently only on prednisone. Just got back from a bike ride on a lovely day, and when we came in, she was standing in her crate to greet us as we came in the door. I ran right over and put my hand in her crate to soothe her because I didn't want her hurting herself with her happy excited dance. That's the tough thing, getting them NOT to do stuff like that!!
That seemed to have pooped her out, because she's back to snoring and dreaming again.
I won't pinch her toes again, it was just because I saw her decline so quickly from fully walking without even a wobble to not being able to stand in under 24 hours, and the pinch was a "Please please please feel this" test.
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Post by Sherry Layman on Apr 27, 2014 14:32:53 GMT -7
I'm so glad Hope is improving. Standing on her own is a great sign. It is ok to allow her to sit or stand in her crate, just so you don't worry. If she is getting exciting and standing on hind legs or twisting herself, as dachshunds can be prone to do, it will be important to calm her to protect her healing disc. Repositioning herself, sitting or standing now and then is good for circulation so as long as she's quiet about it it's ok.
I'm glad she's not on both the Metacam and the Prednisone. You might want to be aware of the interaction of these medications since she has some other medical history and now has the disc problems. These two classes of medications should never be taken at the same time or even within several days of each other. If this should ever come up be sure you have a conversation with your vet about wash out periods and stomach protection.
Remember that healing can come in spurts. You may see improvement and then nothing more for days. As long as she's not regressing you are on the right path. Please keep us posted on how things are going.
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 27, 2014 14:54:16 GMT -7
Yes, she was THRASHING in her crate and whining because her brother was running circles around us, that's why I rushed over to her. Usually she gently repositions herself, although the other night, she was trying to "dig" herself a little nest, and I got nervous about that!
Yes, the vet had a wash-out between Metacam/Robaxin and a change over to prednisone/Tramadol. The tramadol was discontinued because it was causing her distress with bowel movements, as you can see from the previous posts, and since she doesn't seem to be in any further pain and seems very comfortable and alert, I feel ok with not giving her pain meds right now.
I am watching her intently for any signs of pain or discomfort.
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 28, 2014 15:12:20 GMT -7
Hope seems very perky today. She stood for a moment today to shake herself (which made me cringe), and then flopped down on her bum like she surprised herself. She did the super happy dance when I got home from work and her tail was going nuts. I'm so happy that I am a supply teacher, and that I can choose to work a half day, it means I can come home and check on her. It was a good thing too because when I took her out of her crate around 1pm, she had a HUGE pee and poop. She can still take 3-4 steps with a sling when she's out to potty, so that is encouraging. The fact that she held her toilet needs until she was on her pee pad was a good sign! I spoke to the vet today and now they're up to date. I was very upset after speaking to her though. I have the vet I work well with (a man), and he's very supportive and understanding, and really tries to work WITH me when I make a decision about the care of my dogs. He knows I do my research, he knows I have experience caring for animals and that I'm not afraid to get dirty (I clip toenails, express anal glands, clean teeth, etc...) and so he talks to me like a normal person who is willing to try what she can to help her dogs be healthy and happy, without spending every single dollar I have. Then there's his partner (a woman). I got so angry today because she's the one I spoke to, and she tried to tell me that I was hurting my dog!!! She also wouldn't LISTEN when I was trying to explain what I have observed about Hope. I told her that I am well informed and watching her very closely, and that I have seen success with conservative treatment and at this point, I really want to continue with it because Hope is comfortable, she's on steroids and she hasn't gotten worse, and so it's just a wait-and-see thing, and she basically told me that if I didn't go for a neuro consult and consider surgery, I was doing a disservice to my dog. I told her that this isn't my first time with a dog with a disc issue, I have seen surgery NOT work on my dog before (my first dog Oscar actually went from knuckled-over walking to completely paralyzed with no bowel or bladder control), and I have seen conservative treatment work on my other dog. I am informed, I am comfortable with my decision, and as long as Hope is comfortable and pain free, and seems to be retaining her current status and hopefully improving, I will continue with this treatment. AGAIN she pushed surgery. That didn't I UNDERSTAND that I'm risking her ability to ever walk again?!?! And then she told me that waiting will probably result in permanent damage to my dog. I told her I understand the risks, and I want to continue. She sighed and asked about pain control, and I said that's why I had left a message to get a prescription for Tramadol for Hope, even though she doesn't seem to be in pain, maybe she might need it. I don't want Hope in pain, and I'm watching her closely, and, again, she's my dog, and I notice changes in her mood and behaviour, especially since I'm watching for it. She then agreed to the Tramadol. Then she told me that I shouldn't touch Hope's back, but that I have to try to move Hope's legs around because she might lose muscle tone and function! I think it's a little early to worry about that, isn't it?!? I mean, it's only been 4 days, and if she can stand randomly and turn around or something, she's obviously still able to use her legs! I don't want to go manipulating her legs and stretching them right now, I do pet her and stuff, but shouldn't I be worried about that later? At any rate - Hope now has Tramadol. 20 mg 2x a day. 5mg prednisone 2x a day. 5mg Pepcid AC 20-30 mins before a meal with pred In 2 weeks we will begin to taper her if we see improvement in her condition. She's snoring right now in her crate. It's so cute.  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 28, 2014 15:39:43 GMT -7
Hester, good report on the neuro functions. After surgery seeing a tail wag, being able to move up into a standing position, rear leg movement during dreams and bladder control is a super good sign the same as it is during conservative treatment. It means the nerves have great potential to regenerate enough to bring back walking at some point in time. While no one can say when the nerves will heal enough to return function there is a fairly typical order that happens in: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. Leg Movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the feet. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Many vets never have the opportunity to see with their own eyes how conservative treatment works and know the critical part of the care is the 100% STRICT rest 24/7 at the first hint of a suspected disc problem and continue strict rest for a full 8 weeks. You have a wonderful opportunity to make sure the lady vet tracks Hope's recovery and learns how you did it so she will not rule out conservative treatment to the many owners she will come in contact with. Make sure she gets some of our literature... it could save a dog's life of prematurely euthanizing a dog because an owner lost all hope if they could not afford surgery. We'd like all members to tell their vet about this Forum and share how Dodgerslist has helped you care for your dog. Just ask Linda for some free literature. Our brochure for your vet on crate rest would make an excellent addition to the toolbox for educating future clients. Don't leave the house w/o the small cards… you never know when you meet an owner of breeds prone to disc disease (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas are most affected) order here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm I also highly recommend adding the comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD; plus don't forget to order one DVD for your vet. Are you still giving 5mg Pepcid AC (famotidine) 2x a day — 30 mins before the pred and giving pred with a meal? Just checking...LOL. |
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 28, 2014 16:13:45 GMT -7
Hester - that female vet sounds like a challenge; you shouldn't have to justify your care for your dog. My vet told me a story about one of his clients who took his disc-injured dog to an emerg and that vet said it had to have surgery RIGHT NOW. The client had previously had the dog heal via crate rest and acupuncture with his home vet and wanted to pursue that method. The emerg vet called Animal Services on the guy for dog abuse for not giving it surgery. So the animal services people called the conservative vet, who was doing the conservative treatment and acu for this client, and animal services were fine that the dog was being treated, not matter the course of treatment decided. Can you imagine being told you HAVE to put your dog into surgery? Even if it is not the right choice for your dog? So stick to your guns - you've been around the block with this. I know how you feel about those four leg twitching dreams - they gave me such hope with Emmie. I love the picture of both your fur babies!
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 28, 2014 16:26:39 GMT -7
I updated to include the Pepcid, but for some reason it didn't take. Yes, she's getting 5mg 20-30 mins before a meal, and then her prednisone and Tramadol are hidden in a piece of Kraft singles cheese (it's so pliable and she swallows it right down) and then she gets her soupy dinner with 1 tsp of pumpkin to get extra water into her. Her poop is still pretty hard even with the addition of pumpkin. She also has a little water bowl attached inside her cage that she can drink out of while lying down. Her crate is lined with a flat mat, then a pee pad, and then a thin fleece sheet, so if she has an accident it will get wicked away, and it's super easy to change out the pee pad and fleece sheet. I bought about 5 of the $5 Ikea fleece blankets and cut them into quarters so they fit her crate!! I will definitely stand my ground. I know what I'm doing is caring and compassionate, and that I am looking out for my dog's best interest. I am pretty outspoken and don't get pushed around by anyone unless they have a VERY good reason. I suffer from a chronic illness that causes a lot of pain, and for years I was told it was in my head before I was diagnosed, so I know all about asking questions and pushing when I get told "Just do it". I told the male vet all about you guys, and he sounded so happy that I had a support group of knowledgeable people to help me with Axel, and now with Hope. His partner is a good vet, but she just is SET in her ways, which, I guess, makes her an ok vet. I always ask for the male vet when I make my appointments! It's my favourite picture of them. That's how they sleep and cuddle all the time, which is why crate rest is so hard! Axel keeps sniffing her through the bars (and she did the same when he was crated), and sometimes I open the door and let him lick her and that seems to make them both feel better. |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 28, 2014 20:11:59 GMT -7
Hi Hester,
You have a beautiful, handsome pair with Axel and Hope! Such a sweet picture of them snuggling.
Glad you have the male vet and don't have to deal with that lady vet all the time.. Goodness, she was something else again.. Conservative works too and I am glad you told her so! She'll find out in time when Hope recovers and comes walking in there.. Be sure to ask for her then. Haha
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 29, 2014 7:27:37 GMT -7
I'm so excited!
When my husband came downstairs this morning to let Axel out and help Hope go potty (he's so amazing and supportive in this), he called me downstairs, and there she was standing in her crate wagging her tail!!! We took her out of her crate, and with a sling, she practically trotted her to pee spot (not to worry, only 3-4 steps)! She wasn't wobbling or dragging her paws. She took the normal pee stance too. Then, it seemed as though that exhausted her, and she started to flop over, and when she went back into her crate, she just kind of dragged her butt around to get comfortable instead of standing, but it was progress!!!
She's still very reluctant to poop, so it's generally in her crate over night or when we're reaching to take her out of her crate and have to touch her belly, and I think it's so full she just lets it go.
I'm feeling very optimistic.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,611
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 29, 2014 7:45:58 GMT -7
Good news to hear Hope is not going backwards bodes very well for future walking! Normally bowel and bladder return very close in time. It may be she does not yet have bowel control.... are you expressing for poop so Hope does not have to be anxious to find disturbing poop where she sleeps? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poopNow that she is feeling so good, it will be more of a challenge to make sure at potty times she is not pulling on the harness or trying to run/trot. You may find as I did setting up an ex-pen or some of that poke in the ground garden edging wire fence will be perfect to let Hope have a visual plus physical reminder that there will be no running and no sniff fests going on at potty time. Form a 6 foot diameter potty area with the fence. |
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 29, 2014 7:56:50 GMT -7
Hope rarely goes potty outside. She and Axel are pee-pad trained, so they always seek it even when the weather is nice and they had access to the outdoors. Even when we would take them for walks, they both would hold their business until we got home and zoom into their "bathroom" afterwards. When Axel was a pup he'd refuse to go outside if it was remotely wet or cold, and then would have accidents in his room or the house (usually wherever he could find carpet), so we decided on the pee pad to allow him to go when he needed to, and it just stuck. Turns out it's very convenient for us because no matter what the weather, or if we have to work late, they have somewhere to go. Their crate is at the end of a hallway that splits into our bathroom or the laundry room, and the pee pad is in the laundry room. It's very easy to shut her into our small laundry room, then take her out of her crate. There is nowhere to escape! We also bought an X-pen for outdoors so that if there's a nice day (there hasn't been one yet, it's either been miserably cold or rainy or both - forecasted to continue for another week or so), we can take her out there too. I believe she has bowel control, mostly because she STOPS pooping when it starts, and closes her eyes, like she doesn't want us to see and she's trying to stop. Then, with encouragement and petting, she starts up again, but won't make eye contact like she's embarassed. She's always been that way, whenever I'd accidentally walk in on her doing her business, she'd slam up shop and walk away, and then circle back when I left the area to continue her business. My first doxie who had surgery, and lost all control of bladder and bowel, used to just drop it like a horse as he moved along in his cart. I have experience expressing bladder and bowel from that, and she definitely resists any attempt to express her, and with her bladder in particular I could feel resistance, so I know she has control of that. |
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 29, 2014 10:24:28 GMT -7
Hi! I found Emmie was relieved when we helped express poop so she didn't have to be mortified with it in her crate. Just massaging and getting her started and encouraging her to do it on the pad was enough. When she went in her crate she would have to work so hard to bury and hide it because she didn't want to be near it; I thought that was way too much activity for her! Sounds like Hope is a true lady - who wants to be watched in their most vulnerable moment? |
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 29, 2014 12:37:58 GMT -7
LOL, exactly. She is a lady. Axel doesn't care who watches him poop or lick his parts, but Hope is very private about it. She didn't try to bury her poop when she did go in her crate, she just kind of tried to leave it in a corner as far as possible.
I think she's feeling better today for sure. She's now in "donut-dog" position! She's been lying straight out for the past few weeks, this is the first time in a while that she's slept so peacefully and curled up. I'm assuming it's not hurting her to sleep like that?
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 29, 2014 19:40:47 GMT -7
Hi Hester, Yes it's ok for her to sleep curled up. She won't sleep in a position that is uncomfortable or hurts her. A sure sign she is feeling better.  |
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 30, 2014 16:11:37 GMT -7
Yay Hope! We love it when they feel more like themselves. I remember when Emmie first flipped onto her back for a belly rub - I wasn't sure if I should panic or be happy she wanted her tummy tickled!
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 30, 2014 18:57:34 GMT -7
Hope is starting to FLIP OUT when we come home from work, and we're not sure what to do to keep her calm because I'm scared she'll hurt herself standing up and wiggling in her excitement. We rush right over and put our hands on her and try to hold her down lightly and speak soothingly to her, but we don't know what else to do for her!
On the other hand, I'm super excited that she can stand and freak out! She falls over when she stands, but she STANDS. That is such a huge improvement.
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on Apr 30, 2014 19:20:30 GMT -7
HOPE JUST SCRATCHED HER EAR WITH HER REAR LEG!!
YAY!
She was digging away in her ear like she normally does when it "feels so good". So encouraging!!!
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 30, 2014 19:52:21 GMT -7
Great news tonight, Hester! Hope is improving day by day and I am so happy for her and for you!
I remember how worried Neil and I were whenever Tyler tried to go crazy greeting us when we
came home when he had his disc episodes. We did basically what you are doing, greeted him right away and soothed him. Tyler calmed right down after we attended to him. I mean this rascal gets excited if Neil goes outside to do yard work and doesn't even leave the property. When he comes in the door it's as if
he's been out of the country and Tyler hasn't seen him in months.. LOL
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on May 1, 2014 17:57:06 GMT -7
I know that dogs are "pretty" good at not doing something that hurts them, such as scratching, shaking themselves all over, sleeping in "donut" positions and wagging their tails (and bums) in happiness - but I still am so nervous that she'll hurt herself.
Today was a bit of a setback, and I'm not sure if it's because of the above things I just noted, or just part of the healing process. I know there are good and bad days, but she just seemed to be improving by leaps and bounds, I guess I got a little too excited.
When she went to her pee pad with the sling on, she didn't seem to be able to keep her balance all that well even with the support of the sling and her legs kind of spread out. Yesterday she stood there like there like she was perfectly fine (due to the support from the sling) and took several normal looking steps (not dragging her leg). She had several pee and poop accidents in her crate today, but it seems to be a refusal to go, versus not controlling it. My husband took her out to potty, and gave her the "go peeeeeeeeeeeeeee" signal that usually starts the squat and the flood, and she just did a little squirt. It had been 4 hours and I KNEW she had more, so I went over to help him and gave her the command again, and she peed a LOT. Usually she's more willing to please Eric than me, he's her favourite, so it was kind of surprising. I have no idea why she's being so stubborn!
I will continue to keep watch.
She's quite bored in her cage, and I've noticed her digging to make a nest and stuff (which I try to stop when I notice it), and I'm just wondering what I can do to occupy her? She's never been a chewer of toys (how undoxie-like of her!), and she's already 12 lbs, so a little heavy for a mini, so I don't want to give her too many treats. I do have to work half days at least to bring the money in, so there are 4-5 hours at a time where she's alone.
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Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
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Post by Vita & Emmie on May 1, 2014 20:15:37 GMT -7
Hester there are some things you can do to make Hope a little happier in her recovery suite. If she is feeling anxious and digging etc. the moderators here recommended using an oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser. It takes several days for diffusers to work - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option than heavy duty prescription sedatives. I used Adaptil as the diffuser and then Rescue Remedy spray. You can always give yourself a dose of Rescue Remedy at the same time to calm you down! Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. If Hope is bored then a treat that takes long to lick would be good. Emmie was a skinny thing so I would freeze peanut butter for her in a treat and she would work it for a good long while. If you are worried about the fat, things like frozen beef/chicken stock with some veggies in it (weenie popsicle kind of) would be fine. There is also just you lying there petting her and talking to her too... Read more: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/1435/vitas-emmie-conservative-calgary-canada#ixzz30WWQLj9t |
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on May 1, 2014 20:25:10 GMT -7
I don't think these infuser things are available in Canada. I've never heard of anything like that. Our pet stores are pretty sad and limited compared to the States. I see you're from Calgary - maybe Ontario is just pet-product impaired?!?!
She wants her Daddy, that's the hard thing. She and Eric are a pair, and Axel and I are a pair, that's just the way it worked out. Sure, she likes getting pet by me, but she really keeps looking around me for Eric! LOL I think she's digging out of frustration because she's always had full freedom, and now she needs me to take her everywhere, including chasing the sunshine across the kitchen floor in the morning!
I will see if I can find some interesting toys for her to fill with peanut butter (I can get the light stuff and use a little bit) so that she can lick it for hours. She doesn't like frozen things, I think it hurts her teeth!
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Post by Hester & Hope+Dashel on May 3, 2014 15:34:57 GMT -7
We found these little pocket-like licking toys that are meant to be smeared with something, so I gave it to both our dogs today and they happily licked the 1/4 tsp of peanut butter I'd smeared all inside of it for about an hour to make sure they got every last bit. Then they had a big nap.
Today Hope has made another stride, and has stood to eat! I've been feeding her in her crate, and usually she just sits there and eats, but today she stood all the way up! |
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