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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 13, 2013 7:38:41 GMT -7
My 6 year old mini dachshund had surgery, decompressive hemilaminectomy, this past Tuesday. She is home and recovering slowly. About 6 months ago she had an issue with her back but with crate confinement and pain meds she seemed to recover. Or so I thought. Then 2 weeks ago she began having issues again. Crate confinement and meds prescribed again. However, this time she seemed to worsen as the days went on. Her back end began to wobble as she walked.
After a week there was no improvement but seemed to be getting worse and I brought her to the ER at 3am this past Monday. Got a consult with a surgeon that day and he said she was a "50/50" dog. He said if I took her home and if there was no improvement within 48 hours...bring her back ASAP for surgery. Against my better judgement I took her home. I was back in 24 hours later, telling them to go ahead with surgery. Penelope still had some use of her back legs but it was still getting worse.
Later that morning the surgeon called to tell me about the surgery. He said he couldn't say 100% but it appeared her injury from 6 months ago never healed completely. She had some calcification on her bone which he thought was from the previous injury. He said he was confident he got everything but her recovery may be a little longer than normal but still expected a complete recovery.
We go back in 2 weeks to have her staples removed. She is currently on 1/4 of 50mg or Tramadol twice a day and amoxicillin. I carry her out 2-3 times a day to urinate, she won't urinate outside but has in her crate. Obviously, she does not have use of her hind legs. Dr thinks maybe 3-4 weeks before that happens. I think she looks better today....by "better" I mean less painful than the previous days, though I know she is still in pain.
That's my Penelope. She's an awesome dog.
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 13, 2013 11:20:19 GMT -7
I took Penelope outside to go potty a little while ago. While I know she was in some pain, I saw her tail wagging. She still is unable to move her legs or use her hind legs (this is killing me because before surgery she was at least walking...though stumbling). However, when I saw her tail wag, it gave me some hope.  |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2013 13:33:34 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Paula, what is yours? Have you given feed back to the surgeon or a vet that she is still in pain. This is not right. the pain meds need to be adjusted to get pain control just right for Penelope. Pain relief is not a one size fits all deal. It will take team work with your vet/surgeon and communication. Did you get a lesson on how to express the bladder. From what you write she does not yet have bladder control. Did they tell you upon discharge that she did? How to express tips. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmWhat to look for in tail wagging is does it wag after you do some happy talk to her, or she sees a treat coming that makes her happy. Let us know. |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 13, 2013 13:43:10 GMT -7
WELCOME to Dodgerslist. First things first, Penelope is still in pain, please don't have patience with pain. Please call your vet and ask that the Tramadol be given every 8 hours and here are the the medications normally used for IVDD to keep her pain free. Tramadol and Gabapentin kept my Tyler pain free after his surgery on 1/28/2013. You are very important to Penelope and she needs you to be her advocate. This needs to be taken care of right now. She may or many not need an anti inflammatory depending on her level of inflammation.. THE pain medication is top priority. Also she may be developing an Urinary tract infection.. If she is urinating in her crate, most likely she may be losing bladder control and needs to be expressed.. Have your Vet give you a hands on lesson on expressing. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm -Tramadol as the general pain reliever. It has a short half life of 1.7 hours and may need to be prescribed at a minimum of every 8 hours. -Methocarbamol treats muscle spasms stemming from aggravated muscles due to nerve trauma related to the spinal cord inflammation. -Gabapentin may be added to the mix for hard to control pain.Excellent for nerve pain. Veterinarians are finding this medication works very well in combination with Tramadol. Our hope is that you will take on the duties of self education to be able to understand the IVDD enemy and take an active roll in working with the vet, be an integral part of making decisions based on a sound understanding. As quickly as time permits, begin to devour each of the articles in our Disc Disease 101 area. Your is going to be dependent on your abilities. www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmI highly recommend you start with the article entitled "Answers about IVDD Surgery" www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm Add this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD; plus don't forget to order one DVD for your vet www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? -- What is your dog's name? -- Are you now doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty and for surgeon directed PT? …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No chiro (aka VOM)? What did your surgeon direct for PT and for crate rest? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved? -- Can your dog move the legs at all or wag the tail if you do some happy talk? -- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Helpful videos with tips on expressing both urine and poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm-- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? Please keep us posted on how she is doing.. Healing wishes for Penelope! |
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 13, 2013 14:24:17 GMT -7
My name is Jeff.....and the surgeon did not show me how to express her bladder. The vet said she was urinating fine at the hospital. Last night her bedding was wet when I came home. Surgeon told me to let her sit in the yard for about 4-5 minutes but said he was confident she would go since she had been going at the hospital.
I added another 1/4 pill today. Surgeon said to up it if she seemed to be in pain. She's on 1/4 of tramadol 1/4 of 50 mg tramadol. He also put her on Amaxocillin...half pill. That does seem to help. She is eating fine and drinking. When I take her outside she wags her tail....she likes being outside. She does appear to look better when she is in her crate...she's crate confined 24/7 except to go potty. When I take her out of her crate she will stiffen up but will sit in the yard when i take her...she tries to move when I support her back. She has barked a few times today.
I do have a call into my Vet Tech who is on call today.
Thanks to everyone for the help! OH...her surgery was Tuesday.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2013 14:44:30 GMT -7
What did your surgeon direct for PT and crate rest? Are you doing any massage and range of motion on her back legs? The way bladder control is proved is if you see her sniff an old pee spot in the grass and the urine is released. Leaking on you when lifted or finding urine leaks in bedding are the signs that bladder control is not yet 100% back. Carry her to and from the potty place, use a sling... a winter scarf, a long belt to steady her rear and to keep the spine aligned. If she does not release urine, then you would need to express. You will get more out of the lesson if you review this video and tips first: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Since she can wag her tail with happiniess, she may be soon at 100% bladder control. But for the interim you'll likely need to first give her the sniff and pee test and then if nothing, express her bladder. Let us know what the vet tech says. |
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 13, 2013 15:03:10 GMT -7
Surgeon said he did not want PT for 2 weeks. He said the less movement right now the better. He said he she might not begin to use her legs for awhile. The amount he had to scrape off her spine was fairly large and he said her recovery might be a little longer.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2013 18:10:43 GMT -7
Yes, that is why we ask...because each surgical case is different. Can you update us on expressing, bladder control?  What about the pain is that now fully under control dose to dose of 1/4 of a 50mg tramadol tablet? No shiverning, no tight tense tummy, no yelping, no reluctance to move much in the crate or at potty time? |
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 13, 2013 19:12:22 GMT -7
She is moving around her crate more. My niece was here and said she thought Penelope "looked" better. I took Penelope outside to go potty but she just sat there. She does not like to go outside. The Surgeon said to leave her for approx 4-5 minutes and that she would go. She didn't go outside. However, As she was in her crate, I watched her sit up and it looked as though she tried to squat in her crate even though she couldn't. Then she urinated. I feel better because I she knew she had to urinate, or so it appeared.
She likes staying in her crate and is very uncomfortable when I take her out. When she is outside sitting she shakes. However, when she gets back in her crate, she's fine. The only time she seems to really be in much pain or discomfort is taking her out of her crate.
This has been way more than I thought.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 13, 2013 19:49:56 GMT -7
Hi Jeff,
It's still early in Penelope's recovery from surgery and yes indeed, it can be overwhelming! Been there, with Tyler but I can tell you it does get better, it takes time to heal. Learning about IVDD is your best defense.
Still very necessary to get an expressing lesson from your Vet tech. The fact that she is going in her crate when dogs normally won't urinate where they sleep, shows she is losing bladder control which isn't unusual when they lose the ability to move their back legs. What is happening is she is overflowing when her bladder gets too full and it lets go. If that is allowed to happen she will begin to lose bladder tone and then it won't work properly when she does recover.. Also she can get a Urinary tract infection..
What type of crate does Penelope have, one with a front door or a top door? If she has a front door, it would be a better idea to convert it to a top opening so you can reach down to pick her up instead of pulling her out from the front.
How to lift and carry:
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 13, 2013 21:12:21 GMT -7
If she "attempted" to squat that would be a good sign she has bladder control. How about putting a pee pad down on the floor and take her to potty there where maybe she'll feel safer than outdoors. You want to see some sort of brain level activity...such as the brain telling the legs to squat, or the nose sniffing and then urine comes out. Most dogs abhor making waste where they sleep. So let us know that you are taking her out every 4-6 hours and how it goes with a pee pad outside of her crate. If she is just overflowing urine that is not good.... bacteria breed very fast when a dog can fully void their bladder. Amoxicillin may or may not be the match for the bacteria she has/had, also.
Put on your detective hat. Does she shake outside because she is scared, cold? Then as soon as she is back in the warm crate with her blanket she should stop shaking. If she is shaking because you moved her that is pain. Then you would need to continue to let the vet/surgeon know and get the pain meds right for her.
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 14, 2013 13:40:44 GMT -7
I got some good news. The surgeon came in today to check Penelope. This morning she was shaking and barely holding her head up. I was scared. Surgeon checked her out. He said he is impressed with her progress. Said she IS gaining strength in her back legs and seems to be getting some feeling in them. He showed me a couple exercises to do with her. nothing big just "posturing" with her back legs. He said she does not have myomalacia due to the gaining strength he saw in her hind legs. For the pain, he wants me to increase her pain meds [Tramadol?] by 1/4 of a pill 3 times a day. Plus he put her on prednisone, 1/2 tab 2 times a day for 3 days then reduce to just once per day for 3 days...they 5mg pills so 2.5mg would be 1/2.
He is really happy with her progress. As far as urinating, he does not want me to express her. he said to keep the pee pads in her crate and let her use that. Said since she does not want to go out, do not take her out of it right now. And said if she got up when she relieved herself, she has functioning. He mentioned to get her a little bigger crate...so i purchased an exercise pen and keeping the size small but a little bigger than what her crate was.
This afternoon I heard her whining...but it wasn't like a pain whine...it was her "i need to potty whine". So I took her outside, much easier with this pen, and she had a bowel movement. Put her back in her crate and she seems to be doing much better. And as I type this, she heard a dog barking outside, to which she began to give a few barks back to it.
He said he wants me to bring her in Tuesday morning for quick check up. The hospital is open 24 hours and he said to bring her in before i go to work, and pick her up after work, since I can't take off work Tuesday. He said it was no extra cost.
I'm feeling better than I did this morning. I know this is long update...sorry. This has been WAY more than I what I thought it would be.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 14, 2013 15:55:51 GMT -7
Good news Jeff. Barking at another dog means she is feeling much better.
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 14, 2013 20:23:17 GMT -7
Good news...not so good news. Tonight Penelope whined in her crate. Again, it was a "i need to go potty whine". Apparently, she didn't like the way I picked her up. Went outside but she didn't go. Brought her back to her pen and she went right away. And now tonight, she is sleeping and having doggie dreams. She's grunting and moving her back legs. I am taking this as a good sign.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 15, 2013 8:36:21 GMT -7
Yes, dreaming (head level) and then legs moving means a message traveled down her spinal cord to the legs. A very good sign indeed.
What does "she didn't like the way I picked up up" mean. Did she yelp or give a sign of pain while on 1/4 of a 50mg Tramadol tablet every 8 hours? If yes, you need to tell the surgeon so he can further adjust her pain meds.... such as perhaps adding in Gabapentin. Let us know
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 15, 2013 16:10:54 GMT -7
Sometimes when I pick her up, she'll yelp, it's happening less and less though. When she is in her crate and I stand her up or move her legs like the surgeon showed me yesterday, she fine. She doesn't like to be picked up. Yesterday evening and today she has been in her crate doing much better. But when I take her outside, she'll sit there shake. She really does not like to go outside right now. This is all on 1/4 pill of tramadol 3 times a day every 8 hours. The full pill is 50 mg. She goes in for a quick check up tomorrow. I'll speak with him about it...Thanks!
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Post by Linda Stowe on Apr 15, 2013 17:34:58 GMT -7
Did she like to be picked up before surgery. Do you think shes just anticipating pain. My Jolene was like that after her surgery. Sometimes she would yelp before you even touched her.
Good you are going to have her examined tomorrow.
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 17, 2013 3:07:08 GMT -7
Saw the surgeon for a quick check up. He said he is very pleased with penelope's progress. He was showing me how most of her yelping is more of an "anticipation" yelp. He didn't downplay her pain but said some of it is she is still scared. She is moving much better though not using her back legs. Doc says her back legs appear even stronger from this past Sunday and she can stand up though she can't get up on them. She also has good tail control.
She is letting me know when she has to go potty now but many time she waits until she get back in her crate to urinate. She still does not like being in the yard. I'm beginning to have more hope.
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member 
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294 
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Apr 17, 2013 9:16:56 GMT -7
Hi Jeff, just wanted to let you know I feel your pain, and to let you know it does get better and you can do this. Penelope is beautiful by the way, and she is looking for you to help her through this. I know how hard it is, I literally "Lost it" many times in the beginning, and thought I was gonna lose my mind. But with the support of DodgersList I made it, and you can too, just be patient, and calm, especially in front of Penelope, she can feel if you are upset. The calmer you are, the calmer, she'll be..  |
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 17, 2013 10:57:00 GMT -7
Jeff, Penelope may be shaking outside because she is feeling uneasy/scared about being out there in her condition. I am glad she got a good report at the Vet. Recovery takes awhile and each dog progresses in their own time. I think you will see continued improvement.. Here is a link to nerve regeneration that explains the healing time in more detail. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm |
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 19, 2013 15:32:46 GMT -7
I want to thank everyone for their assistance in helping me help penelope. I try to find something positive about her recovery every day. She is now 10 day post op. She no longer is wetting in her crate and is whining to go out side. She no longer shakes when I pick her up and take her outside. She is slowly beginning to use her left hind leg tho she still does not have control of her right hind leg...nor has she tried to use it. When I prop her up she is able to stand and will stay that way until she tries to move. I massage her hind legs as instructed by the surgeon and continue to prop her up and let her stand. I am not seeing indications of pain. She still likes her crate and only whines to get out when she needs to potty. I have been following STRICT 24/7 crate confinement...except for potty. Next week, Thursday, she will get her staples removed...I counted a total of 40.
I am hopeful that she will regain control both hind legs...though I know it may take some time. Once again, thank you all.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 19, 2013 16:37:55 GMT -7
Hi there! Thanks for the update on Penelope. It sounds like she's doing very well this soon after surgery. Some dogs stand up a couple weeks after surgery, and some dogs (like my Goosie) take a much longer time. It took him 11 months after his surgery to walk on his own again. So count yourself lucky! :-) If you are not already getting it, we highly recommend acupuncture and laser light therapy for IVDD. They both stimulate the nerves to heal and reduce pain and inflammation, and acupuncture has the additional bonus of relaxing the dog. I firmly believe acupuncture helped my Goosie regain his bladder control more quickly, and his movements were stronger after his treatments. These treatments can begin asap, as long as you can safely transport your dog to and from the appointments (crated). You can ask your vet for a referral to a holistic vet that does acupuncture and laser light therapy, or you can search for one in your area here: www.holisticvetlist.com/ Are you giving 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 minutes before each dose of steroid to protect her from internal bleeding? If not, get your vet's permission to give it. Better to be safe than sorry. For some reason, many vets aren't proactive about protecting the stomach from the excess acid the steroid produces, and do not prescribe a stomach protectant until after a bleed occurs. Do her poops look normal? Dark/tarry looking poop or bloody poop mean there is an internal bleed. We look forward to hearing how Penelope does in her recovery. Feel free to browse through our Success Stories to get an idea of how differently IVDD dogs can recover. My dog Goosie's story is there: www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htmBest wishes, ~Lisa |
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Deborah & Angel
Helpful Member
No current back issues... Living Life.. <3
Posts: 294
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Post by Deborah & Angel on Apr 21, 2013 6:38:45 GMT -7
Hi Jeff, just wondering how Penelope is doing? I read she had 40 staples...wow..Angel had 14, I'm wondering now what is normal, maybe someone reading this will answer. At first I thought maybe you had a Standard Doxie, but went back and read you have a Mini, so I was just blown away by the 40 staples...:/
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 21, 2013 15:24:47 GMT -7
Surgeon said he had to go in a little deeper due to the amount he had to get out. He said quite a bit had calcified on her spine. I was going to ask him a little more on Thursday when Penelope is supposed to get the staples out.
Penelope is doing much better. She is letting me know when she needs to go potty. She has some use of her right hind leg, wags her a tale only a little, but still isn't using her left hind leg. She is also off all meds...her last one was last night. Currently, she does not seem to be in pain, at least she doesn't display any signs. I'm hoping the worst is behind us.
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 21, 2013 16:25:30 GMT -7
Quick question...as I said earlier, Penelope is using her left hind leg a little but not her right. She wags her tail a little. I have gently squeezed between her nails, on the webbing part, she turns her head and looks down at it. I'm assuming this means she has some feeling in her leg?
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Post by natureluva on Apr 21, 2013 17:07:37 GMT -7
Hi Jeff, yes, if Penelope is moving her leg and wagging her tail, then she DOES have deep pain sensation, so no need to pinch her feet. Has she been able to release urine on her own outside?
I again encourage you to get her some acupuncture if it is within your budget. It reduces inflammation and pain, increase nerve activity, strengthens movements, and induces a state of well-being.
Best wishes, ~Lisa
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on Apr 26, 2013 16:03:14 GMT -7
Penelope had her 2 week post op check up. Staples were removed. Surgeon said Penelope is doing great and that the only physical therapy he wants for her is 10-15 minutes a day walking in the yard. She continues to improve every day and uses her right hind leg more and more. She wags her tail like normal. Now, she is also becoming less tolerant of her crate. Next check up is in another 2 weeks. I take our 8th grade students to DC in May for a week so the Surgeon said they would watch her for the week I am gone.
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Post by natureluva on Apr 26, 2013 16:10:02 GMT -7
Jeff - all great news!! Sounds like she is going to have a great outcome from the surgery. How nice that the vet will watch Penelope while you're in DC. It's great to have a pet sitter you can trust when you have a special needs pup. Now that Penelope can have more freedom from the crate to do her PT and for potty breaks, hopefully she'll take the crate rest a bit easier. We look forward to your next update. Best wishes, ~Lisa PS - what a beauty she is!! Love that silky wire coat.
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Post by Jeff & Penelope on May 4, 2013 10:35:20 GMT -7
Penelope is now almost 4 weeks post op. She continues to make improvements. She is using her right hind leg though it still drags. She will pull it forward but to walk but I have to make certain she goes slow. She still "knuckles" it but only as it drags forward and then she'll put it in the correct position. Also, she is beginning to move quicker than she can move it. So, I have to make sure she goes slow. Her physical therapy still consists of of 10-15 minutes of walking twice a day. I have started to let her walk around the living room on the carpet instead of outside in the yard...which she does better on.
This has seemed like a slow process...especially after reading the quicker success stories on this site. But I know she will get there.
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Post by Pauliana on May 4, 2013 11:12:59 GMT -7
Hi Jeff!
It sounds like Penelope is making progress, she is attempting to walk correctly even though part of the stride is not quite there yet. Still wonderful progress. There is a great variation on healing from dog to dog, so even though her healing pace is slower, the fact is, she is healing and sometimes that process takes longer than we hope.
Thanks for the update!
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