Butch's Max 1/29th ish Conservative

Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name's Marjorie - what's yours? With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

When was Max switched over from Prednisone to Rimadyl? Was there a 4-7 day wash-out period when the switch was made? Please let us know the exact dosage of the Rimadyl in mgs and frequency given. How much does Max weigh?

Max should be immediately crated due to the fact that there still may be swelling pressing on his spine. Quivering when doing PT is a sign of pain. The pain is caused by swelling pressing on the spine. Most likely, the disc has not yet healed completely due to not being on strict crate rest and having too much movement. There should not be any physical therapy done while still on medication. You should speak to the vet about the sign of pain you're seeing and return him to an anti-inflammatory dosage of the Rimadyl and have pain meds prescribed. 

100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty for a full 8 weeks is the SINGLE most important thing you can do to help your dog-- it is the hallmark component of conservative treatment. Carried in and out to potty. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.

Pepcid AC should be given to protect your dog from the excess acid produced by the anti-inflammatory. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before the dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep him from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board.

Eating and drinking OK?

Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to him.

Hi Butch!

Rimadyl is an anti inflammatory and not a pain reliever.  What it does is work on the inflammation and swelling in the spine which is what is causing the pain. It normally takes from 7 days and in some dogs more like a month on the Rimadyl for the swelling to resolve.. Once the swelling is gone, so is the pain and then no further medications would be needed.  Signs of pain are: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy.

For Rimadyl to work, it must be given as prescribed. Skipping doses limits it's effectiveness. 

Has Max had his urine tested to see if he has a urinary tract infection?  Sometimes dogs that have a UTI hold it as long as they can because it burns when they do pee, so they put it off as long as they can.. 

This disease is one that really takes knowing the enemy in order to win the battle. Misjudgements about care can easily be made without full understanding of the IVDD enemy plus there is no way to be alert to professionals offering harmful treatments if we are not educated, too. This disease is unpredictable... a dog can have only one episode their entire life or they can have several disc episode. So to protect Max, it is worth it to invest in learning all you can about IVDD to be prepared should another episode occur. This is our treasure trove of "All Things IVDD" well worth reach each of the articles to be well rounded in all aspects of this disease.

The reason to restrict with 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for a full 8 weeks is that is how long it takes for the disc to form strong scar tissue. Here at Dodgerslist want to give our dogs every possible opportunity to preserve the spinal cord. If an early healing disc should retear with too much movement allowed their is a potential for the nerve damage to be permanent never have the chance to self repair.

So, thank goodness, that Mac is a lucky boy. He did not suffer a relapse to his disc at the 7 week point.

Correction: Max can ONLY safely slowly work up to more activity when he has completed a full 8 weeks of 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 after the most current disc episode.  After crate rest has been completed if there are neuro deficits think of Max as a baby learning to walk or a stroke victim relearning to walk...it can be a slow process. The nerves and muscles have to learn how to coordinate moves again and the muscles need to strength too. Are you doing any water therapy?

Here's that link to our treasure trove of IVDD information including how to handle things after crate rest when Max graduates from this current disc episode....look to the column on the right: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm

Butch, I don't like to speak for Paula but knowing her as I do, I believe that when she posted today, she was under the impression that Max had been on 7 weeks of crate rest when it was stopped. Conservative care only started on 3/17.

When you first came to this forum on 3/17, you reported that Max quivered as though he had pain when you did his exercises. Max was never treated correctly 9 weeks ago and due to the pain that you saw on 3/17, the disc has never healed. Just because he appears to be better does not mean the disc has healed. 8 weeks of crate rest is necessary to completely heal the disc and allow for scar tissue to form. Allowing movement can re-tear the not-yet-healed disc and he could lose the neuro functions that he still has. Please take a look at this video to learn how a disc damages the spinal cord:



The fact that you were seeing a sign of pain on 3/17 means there is still swelling pressing on Max's spine. Max needs to be on an anti-inflammatory dose of the Rimadyl he was taking, pain meds to deal with the pain he has on certain movements and Pepcid AC to protect his GI tract. Strict crate rest 100% 24/7 needs to be started TODAY to protect Max's spine from further damage - only carried in and out to potty. No water therapy until the 8 weeks of crate rest is completed.

I can't stress this strongly enough. I'm very concerned about Max. You had said that you were sorry you hadn't known about the 8 weeks of crate rest at first. It's not too late and it needs to be started now so the disc can properly heal.

With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

Please confirm that you will speak to your vet today about the sign of pain that you saw on 3/17, ask that Max be returned to the anti-inflammatory dosage of Rimadyl, pain meds and whether Max has any health reason why he shouldn't be allowed to take 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 mins before the Rimadyl to protect his GI tract. And please also confirm that the 8 weeks of crate rest has started today.

Well I got confused, wrote a long post with all the info then lost it trying to post......I am busy now and will try to reply later but Max has not had an additional injury and is NOT showing any signs of pain.

Max is now done with the laser and acupuncture treatments and is off of Rimadyl. He only took Rimadyl for about 10 days and took Prednisone before that with several days between the two meds. Max mostly lays in his bed and sleeps, but that is what he did before his injury. (9 year old Dachshund) He does get out of bed to drink and eat and he is standing at those times without pain, he is showing no signs of pain. I carry him out to potty and he does his best to walk around while outside, still wobbly and one of his feet turn under some.

Can someone explain the water therapy and how to do that? Are there any vitamins or meds that can help to strengthen the spinal cord and back?

Max is continuing to improve and is on his feet about half of the time. In the house on our slick wood floors he still drags himself a lot but when outside he is on his feet a lot more. He still knuckles some but is getting better. I have just read about Spinal Walking and wonder if that is what is going on as he still does not react to deep pain, at least not very fast. If it is spinal walking will he continue to improve? We are pleased with his progress so far.........

Thanks Paula Milner, yes we do have rug runners in the house and Max has learned that he can get up easier on them! I was only guessing about the deep pain, I pinch in between his toes and he will pull his feet away from me but not right away.

I am so pleased with his progress and agree that he will continue to improve. When outside now I need to keep him on a leash because he almost gets away from me and I am afraid when he sees a squirrel or cat he would be gone!

I am still trying to not over do it with Max and he can go 10 to 12 hours between bathroom trips. He does do the sniff and pee well and the happy tail wag as good and he ever did! He is trying to run some and seems to stay on his feet better when going faster but I try to slow him down some!

We have a pen off of our porch that is about 4 steps lower that the porch. I have a drain pipe about 14" in diameter running down to the pen from the porch. It has a rubber pad inside of the pipe so that the dogs can get good traction. I had been carrying him out in the yard to do his duties but last week he got down that "tunnel" and did his job! He also came back up it a few times but I am not encouraging that at this time.......

Tried to login at the upload center with the Username: dachsie Password: dodger08
and got error. Any other way to upload pictures?

OK got logedin, now trying to figure out how to upload......

Gave up and loaded them elsewhere.........

Ok Max has a little sister, Coco.

Butch, love your ramp solution to outside — no way your two can jump off the "ramp" Thank you for sharing. I have moved your post with photos to our Ramp section so other members can see what you have done. dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/867/ramps

Sorry you had problems loading to our calendar. We'd love to see the Max and Coco's faces. If you don't mind post another with a caption here and I'll put it in the Calendar section for you.

At 3 months out Max continues to improve and is on his feet a lot more now days. He seems to have developed a "hunch back" but does not seem like it bothers him. Of course he is still somewhat unsteady and "tips over some when walking. He wants to run and keeps his balance better when running, he kind of hops using both back legs together.

I am wondering if I should put him on wheels, especially in the house. With our slick floors he has a harder time getting up and walking, he does use the throw rugs to help him up......I know that you can't leave their wheels on for long periods of time an he is not up & around in the house a lot. Really he only goes outside 3 times or so a day and is not out for long. On nice days he still loves to lay out on the porch in the sun. I am not pushing him to do a lot but he has walked down to the mailbox with me a few times (about 150 yards round trip). His left leg seems stronger than his right but he does place both feet correctly when walking and has all but quit knuckling.

Just a quick update on Max. He continues to improve, I notice things all the time like yesterday for the first time he hiked his leg to pee. He is trying to scratch the yard with his back legs when he is done. He is still a little unsteady, you can tell that he had some injury and sometimes his back is humped up other times not so much.

I do have a question: Has anyone used traction socks while inside? Max gets to running and slides into things in the house, we have wood floors that are slick and I think some good traction is what he needs but worry that he will just pull them off. Are there training steps to take so that he will leave them on?