Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 13, 2014 9:48:12 GMT -7
My name is Debbie and I think this is the first time I have posted since DL left yahoo groups. My Abby had surgery April 2010 for a herniated disc and then again in June 2011 for another one. ( I think those dates are correct) She has been doing great up until Tuesday. I took her in to the vet for vacinations , toe nails and her anal glands needed expressing. They also drew blood for heartworm test( neg). she was happy and healthy Monday and Tuesday morning she didn't want to go down the ramp to potty. Wound up using a potty pad ( which we do when it rains anyway) I had to run errands and when I came home , she met me at the door but her tail was between her legs. I rubbed her back and the area close to where she got her rabies shot and she yelped. I then crated her and called the vet and told them I was afraid she was having a back episode. The vet assured me she wasn't had she had seen her the day before , that it was just from her shots and had me come up and get her some tramadol 50mg to give her 1/4 every 8 hours. Tuesday evening she was worse so I had prednisone and methacarbanol that my previous vet had given me back in Dec , in case she was to have a back episode during the holidays or on a weekend when they weren't in . She said it was very important to treat her immediately should she have another disc episode. So Tuesday night when abby seemed worse to me I started the prednisone 5mg 2 times a day and the methacarbanol .
She can still walk ( but doesn't want to ) and still has bladder control , however she did wet all over her bed Tuesday night. Was dry all day yesterday and pottied last night and again just a few minutes ago. I have an appointment this afternoon at 2 30 with the neuro that did her prior surgeries. I know if it is a disc ( and I truly believe it is) I do feel she is a good candidate for conservative treatment this time , but I just wonder and my question is , has anyones furbaby had to have more than 2 surgeries? It is def not an option this time and I am a nervous wreck with worry. I am sorry this is so long but I wanted to let you know what all is going on here. Thank you , Debbie and Abby
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 13, 2014 11:04:25 GMT -7
Sorry to hear of Abby's problems. What is the name of the vaccination? Was it a combo vaccination, then what is the name of each element? If rabies, had she had the last vaccination 3 years ago as per the new guidelines?
What exactly were the "worse" symptoms Tues evening?
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Debbie&Abby
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surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 13, 2014 11:16:11 GMT -7
hey Paula, she got the 3in 1? distemp/parvo in the upper part of her body and and the rabies ( yes it has been 3 years since her last one) in her right hip area. the " worse" was on top of her tail tucked between her legs (and at times almost looks broken) , she was trembling and yelped when I picked her up.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 13, 2014 11:33:06 GMT -7
You may wish to discuss these points with your vet 1. Location of vacinnation injection Many people are aware of VAS (Vaccine Associated Sarcoma) which are highly malignant and often rapidly fatal tumors that form at the site of vaccines - especially ones that have adjuvants in them - but sarcomas can also form at the site of an injection of other medications.***Please note: Vaccines are NOT to be given in the scruff area. They are to be given as low in a limb as possible. This is to allow for amputation if a VAS occurs. catinfo.org/?link=convenia2. Convenience to humans vs. the dog Maybe the injections should be given one at a time at different visits rather than all three on the same day. Let us know what the neuro says. We'll be here if he believes it could be the early stages of a disc problem. Sure, there are dogs with multiple surgeries. Being Johnie on the Spot to crate is an attempt to keep symptoms mild and avoid a surgery. This page gives very good background info surgery vs. conservative: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 13, 2014 15:38:20 GMT -7
ok we are back from the Neuro. thank you for the information on the injections too, I will sure check into this too . Its most likely another herniated disc in the area that controls the bowel and the bladder, lots and lots of nerves there he said, and from calcifacation showing in her past xrays in that area is what leads him to belive that, as well as I had forgotten to mention earlier, what got me on the alert was abbys failure to wag her tail, It just hung limp. She did wag her tail a small bit before we left the dr office. She does have feeling in her tail and anal area as well in all her feet. We are to continue with strict crate rest only out to potty on harness and leash and I am to call him Monday with a report of her bowels and bladder ( as to if she can control both on her on and so far she can) Meds are predisone 5mg every 12 hours. Tramadol one fourth a 50 mg tablet every 8 to 12 hours for 3 to 5 days. Methocarbonal 500 mg 1/4 tablet every 12 hours for 3 to 5 days. pepcid ac half hour before giving prednisone.
All are subject to change depending on how she is doing. He is assuming we are dealing with a disc issue but did tell me that this is also a common area for dogs to develop cancer at around 9 years old but given her history we will treat as a disc for now.
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Feb 13, 2014 19:31:13 GMT -7
Hi Debbie, I'm Sabrina. I'm so sorry that Abby is most likely having another disc episode, but I'm so glad that she has someone like you looking out for her - someone to recognize the signs and get her help asap! As you may know, Tramadol has a very short half life (1.7 hours) and may need to be prescribed at a minimum of every 8 hours: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpain.htm))Hugs!(( Let us know how you and your sweet Abby are doing!
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 14, 2014 6:59:12 GMT -7
Hi Sabrina, and thank you , and yes for now I do have her taking it every 8 hours, he is hoping we can get to every 12 hours a day so we can start to taper. He said he doesn't like to use it anymore than necessary , that and the methacarbanol due to constipation issues. But that we will use it as long as it is necessary . She ate well this morning for the first time since this began Tuesday and drank lots of water too ( we haven't been able to get her to eat much or drink since this started) so that tells me we are getting the pain under control and with that she can begin to heal. I found Dodgerslist the day after Abbys first surgery and I have gotten a wealth of information and I must admit I had ventured away when they left Yahoo groups and went to this format. When I saw we had an issue I knew exactly what to do thanks to Dodgerslist and so here I am again and just pray we can do this without surgery this time ! thank you so much Sabrina and hugs to you and to Charley
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 14, 2014 11:55:08 GMT -7
Debbie, glad you remembered how important it is to crate at once and get vet help. With conservative treatment the crate rest part is necessarily more strict than for a post-op dog. With conservative treatment limiting movement is to avoid further tears of the disc surface and a potential severe damage to the spinal cord. This short video clip is a good visual to help you commit to the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7. Only a very, very few footsteps allowed at potty time and you carry her to and from the potty place. Set up bowls inside her recovery suite where she'll eat her meals and drink water. Check out the main Dodgerlist website, there is new info since you were last here to help you…some very good reading for now and after crate rest has been completed: It looks like your neuro is also very comfortable in treating a disc problem conservatively. If you are finding that continues, we'd love to have a recommendation…to help a new member trying to locate an IVDD knowledgeable vet for conservative treatment. Here is our directory: dodgerslist.boards.net/If you are finding poops a bit too firm, try adding fiber to the diet. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato.
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Debbie&Abby
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surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 14, 2014 14:19:44 GMT -7
Thank you Paula, I have been reading , looking for all new information. Honestly , surgery is the Neuros first choice, but praise the Lord he is willing to work with me . This is the same office I used for her prior surgeries, Dr Hopkins did her first and Dr Clarke did her second one. Dr Clarke has moved and the Dr we are seeing now is Dr Meeks. I like him and feel very comfortable with him. He told me I can call him 24 hours a day and he is on call all weekend if I need him. Abby is staying crated and actually to take her to potty I put her in her stroller and wheel her outside to where she normally goes potty and lift her out and sit her down and allow no more than 4 or 5 steps ( have leash on her) and then back to the stroller and back inside. I left her in the stroller when we came back in from last potty because she loves her stroller so much more than her crate and seems to rest better in it. I do have her bowls in her crate and her crate is just big enough to hold her bed, and a folded puddle pad ( not big enough to open the pad all the way) And she has used the pad a couple of times between being carried out. So far she is refusing her kibble ( and she has never liked wet/canned pet food, never had one that refused that before her!) So I have been boiling chicken for her, I made her chicken and rice for supper tonight and saved some of the broth from the chicken and am going to add some of the broth and some pumpkin with it this evening and hope she will eat it. She has always been so picky but is happy ( usually)with her normal kibble ( Blue ). In the past, once she started feeling better she went back to her kibble with no problem so I hope that's how it goes again this time. I have to admit after tying conservative the past 2 times ( although the first time I didn't know about the crate rest along with the meds) it scares me to death to be trying it again but it also makes so determined to be diligent about her staying crated to give it the best chance of working. One more thing. Abby peed all over herself Tuesday night and she reeked of urine. This morning I took a warm wash cloth and tried to wipe her down a tad but she was a bit nervous about me going over her with the wash cloth and I was nervous trying to do it. I read somewhere and now I cant find it about a green tea mixture to wipe them down with ? I have green tea here but not sure how to mix it to wipe her with. Thank you so much for the information Paula, I have been going thru here reading what I can and trying to learn how to navigate this site ! Im getting there !
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 14, 2014 17:15:06 GMT -7
Debbie, we are always heartened to hear a specialist that is willing to try conservative treatment even though their training is in surgery. When a dog will not eat as normal, it is suspicious of either still being in too much pain or that Pred is starting to cause a problem. For most dogs Pepcid AC does a wonderful job of protection…for those dogs who need more protection….. it is sucralfate added to Pepcid AC that does the job. I'd discuss this with your vet asap in the morning. Do your homework so you understand just how sucralfate works, the timing with food and Pepcid AC: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlMarjorie's excellent Green Tea idea as well as lots of other good member tips and things to make crate rest go smoother are on the "Supplies List" www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm
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Debbie&Abby
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surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 14, 2014 18:12:42 GMT -7
She ate the chicken and rice with the pumpkin and I did add a small bit of kibble in it she ate everything but all the kibble but she did eat most of it. I am giving her Pepcid ac half hour before the prednisone and if we do need to get sucralfate on board I can do that too. I actually have a bottle of it because I just had complications from gallbladder surgery that put me in the hospital for a week and my gastro put me on that for a month ( I only took it for 3 weeks, that's why I have quite a bit left, scheduling meals and my meds around that stuff made me nuts!!) The chicken is actually my own doing because I like her to have some food in her tummy when she takes meds and I worry about not getting enough water in her food and she will not eat her kibble if its wet or when I add the pumpkin to it. I tried it the last two times she was down with her back and she would not eat it unless I gave it to her dry with no additives. I give her the chicken because I can get extra water in her that way to help with the constipation thing. She did eat good tonight and I will see how she does in the morning and if I need to I can put a call in to her Dr and get proper dosage of the sucralfate. and thank you so much for the link . earlier I went ahead and made a weak solution with some green tea bags I had here and wiped her down when we came back in from pottying and it helped with the smell quite a bit ! Will go read now to see how to properly make it .
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Debbie&Abby
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surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 15, 2014 6:18:04 GMT -7
Abby is much more responsive, and is even letting me know when she needs to go potty ( about every 3 to 4 hours) Yesterday I realized when she was panting it meant she needed to go potty because once I took her out she didn't pant anymore. now she just whines to let me know when she needs to go out . She has even done a couple of full body shakes ( which I hold my breath when she does) Her bowel movement was very hard and dry this morning at 5 am. So for breakfast, I gave her a small amount of chicken ( no rice) with the canned pumpkin and water and she inhaled it, licked the bowl clean. I then gave her kibble and she ate all that too , and then drank quite a bit of water. So hope that helps with the constipation.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 15, 2014 7:26:52 GMT -7
Glad Abby's feeling better and eating, Debbie. There's no special way of making the green tea. Just boil water and make the tea as you would to drink it. I usually let it steep for about 15 minutes since it has to cool down anyway. You can keep any tea that you don't use in the refrigerator and just warm it up a little to use the next time.
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Debbie&Abby
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surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 15, 2014 7:46:09 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie, that's what I did with the tea yesterday and she doesn't even smell anymore . I knew that had to bother her even more than it did me to smell of urine. This 3 round of this ( first 2 ending in surgery ) has my tummy in knots. I felt the second time around that I was a pro at this with what we had been through and what I had learned from this list . I am trying so hard to make this work because a 3rd surgery would be very hard if not impossible to do this time ( the quote was between 5200 and 5500) She will be 9 in August , was 4 and half with first surgery and almost 6 with the second surgery. This precious baby has aged me beyond years but she is so worth it !
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 15, 2014 9:37:16 GMT -7
I do know what you mean, Debbie. My Jeremy had a very hard time with the first surgery and I would absolutely hate to have to put him through a second one. He did have a milder episode last summer and conservative care was all that was needed. Abby sounds like a very good candidate for conservative treatment. Once the pain is brought under control, then they can heal comfortably in their crates. Keep an eye out for any signs of pain. You did mention panting that stopped after she did her business. Panting can be a side effect of meds, a sign of pain or a sign of anxiety. If a fan placed near her crate but not directly on her helps stop the panting, then it's a side effect of the meds. So just keep an eye out for pain and hang in there. As always, we're here for you and Abby.
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 15, 2014 18:07:04 GMT -7
It could be the meds, but after I thought about it , even when she has gone in the car with me , when she needed to potty she would begin to pant. That has always been my signal to park the car and take her to potty . Also in the past when she was on the prednisone she panted like that. So it may be a combination. I truly don't think its from pain because she has become TOO comfortable. She has been sleeping on her back today ! And even rolled around on her back a few times ( which of course I panicked and made her stop) On a another good note, she is going to potty beautifully ( that was the neuros biggest concern) And her tail isn't limp like it was , she doesn't hold it up like normal but she is holding it out ( almost straight out ) and even wagged it today ! Now the downside , now that she feels better she refuses to stay in her crate, she even tried to chew the bars and kept banging her head against the door. So, she is happy in her stroller, but the down side to that is someone has to be with her all the time. I do have a zip tie thru the zipper so she cant push it open with her nose. I battled the crate thing the last 2 times with her and she wound up in the stroller those times as well because I could make nothing work to keep her calm in her crate. The funny thing is she has been sleeping in a crate in the bedroom at night ever since her recovery from her 2nd surgery , goes in it by herself and everything but the door has always been left open , and that is the difference to her I imagine. I am just thankful she is feeling better and we will make the rest work somehow , we did before and we will again !
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 15, 2014 21:14:31 GMT -7
Debbie, it looks like it is time to help Abby relax in her recovery suite it for the good of her early healing disc. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/ Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com
Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog.
Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 16, 2014 6:02:05 GMT -7
Thanks Paula, I will check into some of these, I did try some (not all) of them during her past disc issues . I have a couple of diffusers that I had to buy due to calming one of my cats down so all I have to get is a refill for it. I had been sleeping on the couch with her in the crate in the living room , till yesterday when she refused to stay in there and I had to put her in the stroller. Last night I tried sleeping in my room and put her in the crate she usually sleeps in at night and she had no problem with me closing the door . The only time she got upset was when I left the bedroom briefly and settled right back down after I got back in bed. I guess because that has become her routine at night to sleep in there , being crated during the day isn't part of it. The good thing is , she had her stroller about 2 years before ever being diagnosed with IVDD and loves it. at least I can keep her contained if nothing else works . Just means having someone here all the time if we have to stick with the stroller. I also started stretching her tramadol to 12 hours ( per drs orders to get her off that and the methacarbanol as soon as we can comfortably do so). She has just gone her first 12 hours and so far so good, took her out to potty and she did well and even started barking at the squirrels. Ate her normal breakfast with gusto and now sleeping soundly.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 16, 2014 8:20:47 GMT -7
While we do like to stop meds when they're no longer needed, it is best to keep pain under control and not let it arise. It's harder to keep trying to get pain back under control. Abby has not been on pain meds long at all. Usually the pain meds are tapered when the Prednisone is tapered. Keep a close eye out for any signs of pain - shivering/trembling, not wanting to move much or moving gingerly, yelping, tight/tense stomach muscles, arched back. Let the vet know if you do see any signs of this pain so Abby can return to the original dose of pain meds. There should be no signs of pain from one dose of pain meds to the next. Pain hinders healing.
Has the vet spoken to you about his plans for the taper of the Prednisone yet? At some point, he'll want to taper Abby off the Prednisone. A taper is done to test to see if there is still pain (swelling) and to signal the adrenal glands to start making their own steroid again. During that taper, pain meds are also tapered or stopped so a true test for pain can be made.
Please keep us updated. Healing prayers for Abby.
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 16, 2014 8:35:25 GMT -7
hi Marjorie, I am to call him tomorrow with an update and if he is pleased he wants to start taper of the prednisone Monday after I update him , which means she will have full dose in the morning and possible half dose starting in the evening. That's why the taper on pain meds now so he can get a window on where we stand. The rush on this is due to the fact steroids cause her blood sugars to be too elevated ( we discovered this the last time she was on them ). If there is any sign of pain he assured me we will keep her on the full dose of prednisone if need be. And thank you so much for the prayers , they are always welcome .
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Feb 17, 2014 11:31:07 GMT -7
She's a doll! Glad to hear that you have everything under control and that she is responding so well
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 18, 2014 15:20:05 GMT -7
thank you Stevie, we started her taper yesterday ( one half 5mg prednisone every 12 hours for the next 5 days ) the neuro called this morning to check on her and seems pleased. Of course I am on pins and needles, and this afternoon she has been difficult. She has this little bark she does when " she wants something". And you cant go by how she acts when she is confined because she acts like she's in trouble when confined , like she is being mistreated ( she has the pitiful eyes and droopy ears). However a few minutes ago she was scratching her ear with the leg on the side where her dr feels the disc is bulging. and after that she was rolling around on her back. So for now will just keep a sharp eye on everything and take it from there. Oh and I forgot to mention, the day that we saw the Dr he said this was definitely not from a vaccination. This certainly does not get easier with each episode. I mean I have gotten a wealth of information, and know what I should and should not do. But mentally I think I am this close to losing it sometimes.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
Posts: 471
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Post by Sabrina on Feb 18, 2014 16:58:12 GMT -7
Hi Debbie! I'm glad to hear that it sounds like Abby is pain-free so far - scratching her ear and rolling are good signs that she's not in pain. Has the vet had you further back off of or stop the pain meds altogether? That will be the true test if the Pred has done it's work of resolving the swelling/inflammation that causes the pain. You are doing a great job watching out for your Abby! Even though you and Abby have had to weather multiple episodes, you can get through this! I don't know if you've seen this page, but it has been such a huge encouragement to me! YES, Your Dog CAN Have a Great Quality of Life! - www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmHang in there - we're here for you! ))Hugs!((
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 18, 2014 18:11:45 GMT -7
Thank you Sabrina, The only pain med she has had today was 1/4 a tramadol around 2 this afternoon. I don't know if I gave it to her for her sake or mine !! She was just so whiney earlier and only settled down a couple of hours ago around 6 pm but at least she has stayed quiet since then. I know my biggest problem with Abby is I have spoiled her rotten. She even has a grunt that says " cover me up" and we do it. Sometimes I will tell her " you can do it yourself" and she will, but other times she has dragged her blankie with her away from her bed.( I am referring to before being crated ) ANd she will not hush till we retrieve it. She does the same if she wants a certain toy etc. IF I can ever get her to stay in her crate instead of the stroller all the time that would help too. Right now I am with her 24/7 because I cant leave to even go outside as long as she is in staying in there. I will continue to work on that.
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 20, 2014 21:55:52 GMT -7
Abby has been doing great. She has had no pain meds since 2pm yesterday. I have had to order her an xpen ( express order and will be here tomorrow) because she is not wanting to potty where I take her to potty, she wants to walk to find that right spot. She has been peeing and pooping just fine. That was the Vets main concern. My concern is tonight I took her out ( its dark and I cant see well out there in the dark ) but I know she squatted so I assume she peed. About an hour later I couldn't get her to settle down so I took her back out and she squatted , and again I assume she peed then she walked a few more feet and squatted again. I went to pick her up and she let me know she wasn't done. But she just stood there, so I let her walk a few more feet and she pooped. Then she proceeded to walk a few steps away and squat again to pee . She has never done that. That time I put my hand on the ground where she squatted but I didn't feel any wet ground. I then picked her up and brought her in and put her back in her stroller ( yes still using that for now ) she is now sleeping just fine. And if she does this in the morning I will get catch a sample and run it up to the vet. I was just wondering , this isn't a sign of possibly LOSING bladder control is it? She's doing so well and now has a full tail wag and eating and drinking well. I just know I have never seen her squat over and over again like that.
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 20, 2014 23:13:17 GMT -7
Hi Debbie,
I would let the vet know that she seems to be having a problem with squatting and not actually peeing.. It could be she is losing bladder control or she could be having symptoms of a UTI.. It would be a good idea to take in a urine sample..It's a good sign she is wagging her tail so I am leaning towards a UTI.
Sending soothing thoughts over the miles..
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Debbie&Abby
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surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Feb 21, 2014 3:15:27 GMT -7
Thanks Paulina, She went from 11pm till 4:30am without needing to go , when she woke up whining to go I took her into the bathroom with a puddle pad so I could see if she was going and she went quite a bit and it looked normal. Tried to go back to bed but within a half hour she was whining again, so I took her back to the bathroom but she dint go or even try to go. I think she was awake and wanted breakfast ! She gets a frozen raw fish filet every morning for breakfast with pro-biotics sprinkled on it. She ate that and went on back to sleep. I am going to catch a urine sample later this morning and run it up to the vets, rather be safe than sorry and if no UTI then I may put in a call to her Neuro if she does it again.
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Mar 12, 2014 19:44:23 GMT -7
Well Abby has been off all meds for about 2 weeks and was doing great. I had to start taking her to potty in the bathroom on a puddle pad because she was just determined to walk too much outside to find the "right" spot. Usually every time I take her to potty she will pee even if just a " spot" ( because she really didn't need to go , she was just wanting out of the stroller. She has spent this whole time recovering in her stroller because there was just no calming her in the crate.) She has become way to active at times in that stroller , adjusting her covers, or jumping up and down in there because hubby came home or we had a visitor. This afternoon around 4 pm I offered her dinner and she refused it. And then about half hour later she let out a yelp. She does make this high pitched yelp when she wants attention but I somehow in my gut didn't think that's what it was. I picked her up and took her to the bathroom and she just stood by my leg , trembling and looking up at me. I put her back in her stroller and I gave her Pepcid AC 5 mg prednisone 1/4 tablet of methacarbamol 1/4 tablet of tramadol.
I then put her in her crate and she hasn't complained since I put her in there. Very unusual since she hates when you close the door on the crate. I offered her dinner and she declined. offered water and she declined. So I gave her some unsalted chicken broth and she drank it. Then boiled her some chicken and she ate that. I just asked if she had to potty as I opened the crate door and she came over to the door and I took her to the bathroom and she did poop but didn't pee. She can walk and she can wag her tail, it just worries me that she didn't even try to pee. She isn't trembling anymore and no tightness in her tummy and she seems to be resting well in her crate. I am going to put a call in to the vet in the morning. I really rather take her to her vet instead of the neuro because I know he is going to want to proceed with surgery and that is not an option this time. But he did mention when I had her in there a few weeks ago that he doesn't like the methcarbamol because it constipates them so bad and that he usually gives them valium but since I had started her on the methacarbamol we would just keep her on it. I was just wondering if valium would do the same job as the methacarbamol ? I am going to ask the vet about it tomorrow but I was just wanting to hear your opinion. Yesterday was 4 weeks of crate rest and it looks like we are in for 8 more and I have got to have something that will keep her calm in her crate ( once she feels better) so I can get out of this house. I was just thinking the valium would work for that too when I had to leave the house. My life has been on hold for the past 4 weeks ( she also suffers separation anxiety so with trying to keep her calm I have stayed home , haven't even been able to go to church ) I can tell you , I am a pure mental mess right now.
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 12, 2014 20:32:42 GMT -7
Hi Debbie, We've had member's dogs that have been on Valium instead of Methocarbamol. I don't see why not, it would certainly be worth a try to see if it calms her as well as relax muscle spasms. It should, as it is a relaxer as well as being anti anxiety. Raed this info on Valium and then discuss with your vet and see what he has to say. The article discusses how it works for separation anxiety as well as IVDD. vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/a/CW-Diazepam-Valium.htmYou also need to get your life back and get out for a little while.. Usually when no one is home they settle down and go to sleep. I would discuss with the Vet about his anxiety issues as well.. Sending soothing thoughts across the miles..
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Debbie&Abby
New Member
surgery 4/2010, 6/2011; conservative 2/14/2014
Posts: 24
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Post by Debbie&Abby on Mar 13, 2014 3:43:54 GMT -7
Thanks Paulina, I will speak to the vet about that today. I am going to TRY to talk to the vet on the phone ( sometimes she prefers to see her) rather than take Abby in because I really would rather not have to move her around and she is so terrified of going to the vet anyway since her first IVDD episode. She did finally go pee last night and she peed a ton! She has peed and pooped this morning and she's not in any pain , just not as feisty as she had been the past couple of days. I put her back in her stroller last night and had her next to my bed and she's still in there , had breakfast in there and I am going to try again to put her in the crate shortly. As far as her settling down after I leave ,she usually will go get in her bed and stay there until I get back . But if she is crated she goes nuts and the last time I tried it after her second surgery , I had my neighbor listen out for her and she said Abby barked the entire time I was gone , about an hour and a half. and she was soaking wet, like a horse that has been ridden hard. It really doesn't worry me about her barking. We live out in the country so she's not disturbing anyone but I worry about her hurting herself trying to get out. This time I did pin a sheet to the top of her crate to make the " roof" lower to try to keep her from jumping so we will see how that goes as well.
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