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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 8, 2014 14:36:04 GMT -7
Hi All,
On the evening of Feb 06, Lana, our 5-year-old mini-dachs suddenly went down. We immediately took her to an emergency neurological center where she was diagnosed with sensation in the right hind leg but none in the left hind leg. After an MRI, she was on the operating table within 2.5 hours of the incident. She had a T13-L1 intervertebral disc herniation. The surgeon gave us a 50-50 chance of her regaining feeling. This morning, the hospital called to tell us she had sensation in both hind legs/feet and could wag her tail. What a relief! We picked her up this morning and she is now home starting extended crate recovery. I have a set of passive exercises and instructions for expressing her. I am extremely nervous about trying the latter for the first time. She is on pain medication so she's currently quite docile but I'm worried about keeping her occupied in a 24 inch x 24 inch crate for the next several weeks. If anyone has tips, I would be so grateful
LanaMom
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 9, 2014 0:07:00 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist! My name is Pauliana, we are a friendly group and go by first names, what is your name? Please let your Lana know with your utmost confidence that things are going to be ok…because they will. With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm Add this comprehensive "must-have" $3 DVD on IVDD to your arsenal of educational resources. Friends, family and those who will be caring for your dog should also watch this DVD; plus don't forget to order one DVD for your vet www.dodgerslist.com/store/DVDorder.htm In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? Are you now doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty and for surgeon directed PT for 6 weeks? …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No chiro (aka VOM)? What did your surgeon direct for PT and for crate rest? -- Is there still currently pain - shivering, shaking, crying when picked up or moved? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. -- Can your dog move the legs at all? -- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? Helpful videos with tips on expressing both urine and poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color and firmness no dark or bright red blood? Laser light therapy, acupuncture and electroacupuncture which sends a microcurrent of electricity to and from acupuncture points (which are really big nerve bundles), can be very beneficial at helping to re-establish the nerve connections in the body. Any one of these therapies can be started right away if in your budget... they not only help relieve pain and inflammation but will kick start nerves to begin regeneration. Find a holistic vet here: ahvma.org/Wid vet's overview/prices] NOTE: Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. What we did with our Tyler was keep a crate in each room that we spent time in so he could be with us. The other idea is to put Lana's crate on wheels or a wheel cart so she can share time with you no matter where you are in the house. Sending healing wishes over the miles..
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 9, 2014 11:35:01 GMT -7
Hi Pauliana,
My name is Suzanne and this website has been an unbelievably wonderful resource for me.
I'll fill in you about the questions you asked: Yes, we are doing 100% strict crate rest 24/7. Lana is only out when I pick her up to express her bladder, then she goes right back. She has no evident pain. Her medication schedule is: 11 pounds Prednisone 2.5 mg, 1 tab every 12 hours for the first two days, 1 tab daily for 3 days and then 1 tab every other day; Gabapentin (100 mg/ml) 0.5 ml by outh 3x daily; Cephalexin (250 mg) 1/2 tablet every 12 hours; Famotidine (10mg) 1/2 tablet daily and 1 hour apart from Gabapentin.
She cannot move her hind legs. At the time she was released from the hospital the tech went over how to express her bladder and the various passive therapy exercises which we are doing 3x/day. She is eating well and drinking but has not had a bowel movement since she came home 24 hours ago. She has an appointment at rehab the day her staples are removed in two weeks. We have reconfigured two exercise pens so she has a 24 inch square recovery crate and she seems very comfortable in it. One is in the main activity area of our apartment and the other is in our bedroom. She is still rather subdued - may be the pain meds causing some sedation.
Many thanks for checking in with me!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 9, 2014 12:20:52 GMT -7
Suzanne, I saw where you said she CAN wag her tail… if that is due to being happy because you did some happy talk with her or she saw a treat coming, then do expect the next neuro function to return will be bladder/bowel control. No one can tell you the date just the order. A combo of meds slowing down movement through the digestive tube and causing a bit of too firm poop and not having eating can account for the normality of no poop. Pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potoato or a white potato. How much does Lana weigh? How are you doing with expressing? While on pred you might need to express every 2-3 hours. Does she stay dry in between expressing sessions? Did you see the video on expressing for poop? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poop
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 9, 2014 14:05:05 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
When the doctor called us yesterday morning, before we picked her up, he said she had sensation in both hind legs/feet and had wagged her tail. I have not seen the tail wag yet but I also have not engaged her in a lot of happy talk. Lana weighs 11 pounds. I'm doing fine with the expressing of urine and will watch the video on poop expression. The hospital also told me about pumpkin so I'm using 1 teaspoon/day. She vomited just before we picked her up yesterday so the doctor recommended a bland diet - the last two meals have been rice and hamburger - about 1/4 c. total for each meal. Any thoughts about when she could go back on kibble. I'm eager to do that because it seems it would be more nutritious and balanced than just rice and hamburger. I also want to be sure she doesn't gain weight. She's not drinking as much as I expected she would given that she's on Prednisone so I'll take your advice and add water to her dinner this evening.
Thank you! Suzanne
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 10, 2014 7:17:58 GMT -7
If her appetite is good and she's showing no more signs of tummy distress, I think it would be a good idea to return her to her normal food so she gets the nutrition she needs. I see she's getting Famotidine to protect her tummy but only 5 mgs once a day. Please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Famotidine 30 minutes before the dose of the Prednisone and thereafter every 12 hours.
Please keep us updated on her progress.
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 10, 2014 19:16:19 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie,
I forgot to mention in her meds list that Lana also had a Fentanyl patch which is being removed this evening. Re the constipation, her vet prescribed Generlac 10 mg/15ml solution administered 1 ml every 12 hours until a bowel movement. She had this 4 hours ago; as yet there is no bowel movement.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 11, 2014 6:50:27 GMT -7
The rice may have constipated her, too. I would return her to her regular food. Hopefully the Generlac will help today. Did you try the pumpkin that Paula recommended? Please keep us updated on Lana's progress.
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 11, 2014 7:18:05 GMT -7
Yes, I put her back on her regular diet last evening and added some warm water to the kibble. Her stomach seems ok now. She has her usual great appetite and she's holding the food down. She had her second dose of stool softener this morning at 6 but still no bowel movement. And yes, I've been giving her 1 teaspoon of pumpkin 2x/day with her meals.
We are doing passive therapy 3x/day, 20 reps each time. The final exercise is to stand her, try to place all four feet where they should be in a standing position and then let go. I noticed last evening that she seems to have a little strength in her right hind leg. She's able to hold that one a little longer but dips down and over her left leg consistently. The left leg was the one with no DPS at the time of her initial exam prior to surgery so I'm assuming that one will take longer to show results?
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 11, 2014 20:52:41 GMT -7
Hi Suzanne, As far as the left leg that lost DPS it may take it some time to heal: REGAINING NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION has no time limit for nerves to heal. Nerve repair is individual as each injury is different and each dog’s ability to heal is different. If deep pain perception (DPP) is present, even in paralyzed legs, there is a chance your dog may be able to walk again. For those dogs who have lost DPP, do know nerve regeneration can take place and that function may return. Once deep pain perception is regained, your dog has a chance at a walking recovery. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms. Acupuncture and Laser Therapy stimulate the cell’s metabolism that leads to the body’s natural repair abilities and can be started at any time.
Once nerves have repaired then muscles will also have to be retrained to relearn proper placement of the paws. Some muscles will need to regain strength for walking. Consider learning to walk again as it would be for a stroke victim or a baby learning to walk. At first, the steps will be weak and a bit unstable. Relearning to walk takes coordination, building up strength, and lots of patience.
There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag! 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 12, 2014 14:08:55 GMT -7
Hi Pauliana,
Lana is beginning rehab on Friday - that will be just a bit over a week since her surgery. The bowel movement problem solved itself today. I had to take her to the vet yesterday, at the specialist's recommendation, for an enema. Her vet was able to express a hard stool and suggested we wait until today before progressing with an enema. That was good advice. This morning she had a large BM and another this afternoon.
The vet took her off both cephelexin and prednisone today, so that should also help her stomach situation. She vomited breakfast this morning so she's back to a bland diet. We've also increased her Famotidine to 2x/day instead of 1. I hope a couple of days on a bland diet, an increase of Famotidine and a reduction in the meds will even out her stomach.
We continue with the passive therapy at home. Her front legs are strengthening - I'm sure to compensate. Her rear right leg is showing minuscule progress; the left leg has no function so she topples over to her left during the PT sessions.
I told her regular vet about this great website yesterday and hope she will pass along the info to other patients yet to go through this.
Suzanne
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 13, 2014 8:19:07 GMT -7
Rather than change Lana to a bland diet (she needs her regular nutrition to heal), please speak to the vet today about adding Sucralfate along with the Famotidine. Sucralfate works in a different way to bandaid the damaged mucus lining and also promotes a healing environment. Sucralfate will require timing with other meds…so do your homework so you can discuss things with the vet: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlThank you for letting your vet know about Dodgerslist. We would love you to order some of our free literature to hand out to other pet owners and to give to your vet for his reception room. We'd appreciate that very much! Please keep us updated on Lana's GI tract problems. Continued healing prayers for Lana.
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 13, 2014 15:25:37 GMT -7
She's seeing her vet tomorrow morning and I will ask about the Sucralfate. In the meantime, her stomach has settled down with the 2 dosages of Famotidine. I will certainly order some of your free literature just as soon as I can - likely this weekend.
Any suggestions for items that might keep her occupied during the weeks of crate rest? I am trying to avoid any extra calories which rules out Kong toys. Nylabones don't interest her, nor do squeaky toys. She's basically a chewer.
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Sabrina
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Post by Sabrina on Feb 13, 2014 20:20:26 GMT -7
Hi Suzanne! So glad to hear Lana's tummy is settling down! Here are a few ideas for keeping Lana occupied during her crate rest: "Entertainment Place the crate near a window with a view, on the coffee table in front of couch where you sit. Place the crate so the dog will be in the middle of family activities, near your bed at night. Secure crate to a flat moving dolly (or put casters on plywood) to easily move the crate room to room. Fill a kong with a slight slather of soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube." www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmIf she's needing help "resting" while on crate rest, here are some strategies to help her settle!: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm#Emergencyconfinement))Hugs!((
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 13, 2014 21:39:36 GMT -7
Thank you, Sabrina,
Problem is - she's not highly active physically but still needs stimulation . Are there any chew treats you can recommend that would not pack on calories?
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 15, 2014 9:00:10 GMT -7
We saw Lana's surgeon for a recheck yesterday. She removed her staples and took her off all the meds. Then we headed for our PT evaluation and first session. She had acupuncture with electro-stimulation and we came home with a set of exercises to do over the weekend. Massage techniques were also detailed and included massage for her shoulders and front legs since they are bearing more of her weight than usual. We are checking in with her therapist after the weekend. Our focus for the next few days is to get her back feet into normal positions and to simulate some walking movements.
By the way, the tech at therapy knew all about DodgersList.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 15, 2014 11:54:00 GMT -7
Sounds like Lana is making good progress, no pain-- off all meds and starting PT. Which neuro center did you go to, always good to hear where we are recognized!
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 15, 2014 15:47:39 GMT -7
It's PawsitivEnergy in Chicago.
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 16, 2014 17:32:22 GMT -7
Today was a good day. Lana can stand on her own for a few seconds and wants to try to walk. We're working with her to try and give her a sense of the proper position for her back feet.
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 18, 2014 13:15:26 GMT -7
Has anyone had experience with IVDD in a dog who also has some prior incontinence? Lana was on Proin before her incident and the Proin managed her incontinence very well. Without it, I would find her bed wet a few times a week. Since the surgery, the vet advised us to hold off on the Proin. When she first came home, about 10 days ago, I expressed her bladder. About four days ago, I started to notice that she is urinating in her bed at times. Today, she hasn't urinated at all and I have been unable to express her bladder, which feels very small. I'm getting worried about the situation.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 18, 2014 13:45:04 GMT -7
I would get on the phone and discuss your findings with the surgeon and what other options instead of Proin if indeed something is needed. Let us know what he says.
Have you brought Lana outdoors to give her a change to sniff an old pee spot in the grass for inspiration?
Have you gogoled, done your homework on Proin? Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) is a decongestant. In humans it was used to treat nasal congestion associated with the common cold, allergies, It has also been used as a nonprescription diet-aid for weight loss. AKA Dexatrim. It was taken off the human market by the FDA in 1999 due to severe health risks to humans.
Ended up in the vet arena. It has caused deaths in dogs. It can cause strokes. IT can increase heart rate and blood pressure in a dog and can cause irritability too. Should a dog have an undiagnosed underlying heart problem, that spells big trouble.
Do not use phenylpropanolamine within 2 weeks of using MAO inhibitors (Mitaban® Dip, Preventic® Flea Collars, Anipryl®, isoniazid)”
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 18, 2014 16:44:53 GMT -7
Thank you, Paula. I will definitely discuss all you mentioned with the vet and shall google it.
Problem with going outside is that Lana is trained to a pad, indoors. In the past, whenever we are out walking with her and our other dogs (2 males), she will actually hold her urine until she's inside and on her pad. I have never seen her urinate outside, as strange as that sounds. So, since her surgery, I take her to a pad in the usual place but she doesn't seem to connect it. She can't stand so she just sits on the pad and looks at me. Then I feel horrible when I check her crate and find that she's urinated there. She tries to edge away from it and, of course, I clean her off with baby wipes as soon as I see what's happened.
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Sabrina
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Post by Sabrina on Feb 18, 2014 17:23:36 GMT -7
Do you have any sort of sling to support Lana at potty times? My male preferred the figure 8 style - not sure if it would be anatomically comfortable for a female or not: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpgIf you aren't currently using a sling, maybe Lana would be more confident using her pad while in a sling, knowing that she's in a more normal position where she won't pee on her tummy/legs? And getting back to your question about low calorie chews - if Lana likes Kongs, I think your best bet there would be a Kong with Lana's normal meals frozen with some water/broth (or veggies frozen with some broth). That way she's getting her normal calories in a way that gives her some mental stimulation, too! ))Hugs!((
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Post by Nancy & Beulah on Feb 20, 2014 0:31:48 GMT -7
Suzanne, my dogs are pad trained. The only times they go outside at all is to 'sun' on the front enclosed porch when the weather is nice. I had a horrible time with Beulah after surgery. She wouldn't eat.(Had to give her meds with peanut butter, she wouldn't even take them in dog food or a pill pocket!) Wouldn't drink water and of course wouldn't pee. She would sit down on the pad and look up at me. I tried expressing but was never really successful with it. I added water to her food every time I fed her. Then she would pee. Pooping wasn't ever a problem. I kept the crate close to wherever we were. I slept on the couch beside her many a night so my husband could sleep and be able to work the next day. Some give their dogs raw carrots mine won't eat them.
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 22, 2014 14:50:48 GMT -7
Nancy and Beulah,
I'm sort of on your routine. When Lana wouldn't drink much, I just added a good amount of water to her food and she would take it that way. And pooping is not a problem with her either. She loves carrots, so I give her those and also a dollop of pumpkin with each meal.
I'm just trying to visualize how I get her back to urinating on her pad once she recovers. Maybe it will just come naturally. And yes, I keep her crate right next me at night so I can hear what's going on with her. That way if she poops or urinates I can get it cleaned up and her cleaned up, too, right away.
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Post by Nancy & Beulah on Feb 23, 2014 10:49:20 GMT -7
Our older doxie had back surgery a few years back. (About 4 years ago). She is a water drinker, then and now. There were no problems with ever getting her to drink or pee but she wouldn't poop. I had to use the pumpkin etc. on her. She never wet her bed that I remember. She would get loud when she needed to go out. Set her on a pad and she would go. Beulah wet her bed several times. Set her on a pad and she would look at you,put her back in the crate and she would wet. Pooped in it only once and that was early. The hair is finally growing back on Beulah's back. Lanette had to take Melatonin to get her hair to grow back! She was bald three months after the surgery. Lanette has one foot that she kind of turns under now and then but otherwise she seems fine. Beulah's left leg seems weak. She limps when she walks. Hops when she runs but she is gradually getting better. I am hoping she will get completely well. What kind of carrots do you use? Whole ones cut or the baby ones? I am going to try mine again on them. Better for them than treats. You are in good hands on this board. These ladies are awesome!
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 23, 2014 20:34:13 GMT -7
I'm using baby carrots. She also likes frozen green beans, which I dole out one at a time.
I enlarged the size of her recovery crate today to allow room for a pad. She will move off her mattress to use the pad for pooping and peeing so I'm considering that a good thing. I'm sleeping very lightly these nights so I can pretty much monitor what's going on in her crate!
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Pat & Clarita
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8/28 conserv, 2 prior surgeries
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Post by Pat & Clarita on Feb 24, 2014 15:00:08 GMT -7
YES! These ladies are awesome.. couldn't get through this without them.. (they know more than most Vets..)
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Post by Suzanne&Lana on Feb 26, 2014 20:15:07 GMT -7
Lana stood up to eat dinner for the first time yesterday! She is on a hydro-treadmill every other day and gaining strength. This is combined with laser, acupuncture, electro-stimulation and weight-shifting exercises. The back legs tire on the treadmill and her feet knuckle under, particularly her right leg which has been weaker since surgery, but the next day she is stronger and I continue with the PT exercises at home. This is her third week of crate rest and a tiny bit of normalcy is creeping back into our lives.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 27, 2014 15:52:42 GMT -7
Lana is doing so well.... progress in the right direction! The underwater treadmill is something we see being very beneficial to getting those legs to move.
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