PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 17, 2013 16:34:01 GMT -7
Good deal then, it does not sound like Tank is currently in any pain. The taper off of Pred tomorrow will tell if swelling is still going on. You do know the taper should also have pain meds backed off as well to have a certain and clear picture of any hint of pain arising or not.
Please do keep us updated on Tank, hoping for the best on that taper.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 17, 2013 20:40:26 GMT -7
I talked to tank's laser vet (its diff than my general vet), and he said he was comfortable with treating tank and discussing and dealing with me with tapering and his medications. I am seeing him tomorrow for his laser and we are going to discuss. But on the phone we decided that since tank was doing better on the 2x's day he will be staying on this til thursday and then friday do the taper. I am more comfortable with this vet and he is comfortable treating tank so it makes me feel better.
We discussed that seeing the neurologist as of now would not be helpful because he can help with medications.
Also, when i am ready to taper, do i abruptly stop giving him the pain meds all together?
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Post by Pauliana on Dec 17, 2013 20:53:49 GMT -7
Hi Ashley,
Pain medications are generally tapered or stopped as well so you can see if the swelling is down. If the pain returns on the Pred taper, you wouldn't be able to tell if the pain meds are masking the pain..
How nice the Laser Vet is willing to work with you on the tapering and medications and you feel more comfortable with him.. Discuss with him how he wants you to back off the pain medications during the taper and please do keep us posted..
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,579
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 18, 2013 9:38:38 GMT -7
Ashley, if you are finding the laser vet to be IVDD knowledgeable to your satisfaction, would you consider a recommendation at some point. We always have new members some needing a new vet. Make a vet recommendations here: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-postingLet us know how the laser vet visit goes today.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 19, 2013 13:39:01 GMT -7
Hello, so we are settling in at my parents- been tough because he's hyper here and he barks more, but it's been ok and will get better i'm sure as time goes on. He is controlled on his pain and steroids and has been doing better with that. He is getting tramadol 3x/day and steroids 2x/day. The steroids are going to be tapered monday to 1x/day. The vet said to leave him on the pain meds because we don't want to see him in pain, and we will eventually have to taper, so just hoping this taper goes well. I will give him 1-2x'day tramadol instead of 3x's. Need to find a laser place here at my parents and my vet is going out of town until after new years as well, so we will have to make a plan before he leaves (Monday is his last day).
Also, he was on predniSOLONE but the vet gave him refill for predniSONE, I know they do the same thing and one prednisone is just the precursor, so it would be ok to switch him? Or should i stick with prednisolone?
Tank's just outside with me now soaking up the sun and enjoying the outdoors, not as ideal since he is in the crate, but he has been strong.
I'll update the referral too.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 19, 2013 18:03:52 GMT -7
According to this webpage, Prednisone is activated by the patient's liver into Prednisolone and the two medications are interchangable. www.marvistavet.com/html/body_prednisone.htmlI'm glad his pain is under control. With the taper starting on Monday, you'll need to keep a close lookout for any signs of pain: shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, just not usual, perky self. Yes, you'll need to make a plan with your vet before he goes away as to what he wants done if you see any signs of pain during the taper. Prayers for a pain-free taper for Tank.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 20, 2013 14:01:03 GMT -7
Ok i will give him the prednisone then.
Yes prayers he is pain-free!
He has been doing good, just had the crate open 1 sec outside was going to let him potty and this AT&T guy comes to back of my house and tank darted out about 6 steps! I screamed on top of my lungs obviously and he stopped and i put him back in the crate, didn't yelp or shake seemed fine. He didn't seem hurt but this scared the heck out of me and i hope he didn't re-aggrevate it. He is asleep now.
Also, i found a laser around here, they said they do it everyday for IVDD dogs, so I'm going to take tank everyday this week. Especially because he is getting tapered off steroid monday, I'm hoping this will help.
Can they lay on their backs? Tank is doing it right now in his crate and i didn't want to hurt him trying to turn him over. He just turned over but is this bad?
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 20, 2013 18:04:41 GMT -7
Yes, they can do the unexpected so quickly! Any time out of the crate or with the door open is a dangerous time, that's for sure. Hopefully, his little escape hasn't caused any harm.
Good job on getting the laser treatment done. Let us know how that goes.
Laying on his back is actually a good indication that Tank is not experiencing any pain and is feeling comfortable. If he's comfortable, I'd leave him be. You might cause him more harm trying to move him to turn over.
All the best to you both.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 24, 2013 12:42:38 GMT -7
Today is the 2nd day of the 1xday pred so far tank is doing ok (fingers crossed), i had 2 vets that said to stay on the tramadol 3xday for a couple days so i have been doing that, in a couple days if he is still doing well then i will try to taper off that too to 2x day and eventually none hopefully. Tank's posture has being getting better each day with more of a flat back. He has been more hyper and himself lately. Tank had 6 laser treatments now and he is getting 3 more this week, 1 today, thursday and friday. He had one sunday and monday too and the place i found by my parents is great, i will write in the referral. They care about the animals and did long sessions of the laser on Tank, with a very friendly staff. Just wanted to update everyone on tank and hope he continues to do well on this tapering so he can be drug-free soon. 6 weeks left of crate rest. We have been counting down...
I have a question about the side effect of pred. Has anyone on this site every experienced their dog to get diabetes? liver problems?
It is probably nothing, but i noticed tank's breath smells different today- not sure if it's because i hadn't brushed his teeth in a couple weeks or if it was from the medications. I brushed it and i'm gonna see later if it still smells. The vet tech today said it didn't smell like sweet like diabetes or like if the dog had liver problems. but i wasn't sure how common that would be after 2 weeks of steroid treatment. Curious and concerned that the medications could be harming the guy. I read that if the dog does get diabetes induced from steroids than it usually goes away after treatment is stopped. Not sure if it's just me realizing this and noticing it now or if it is actually a problem. but i figured i would ask on here to see what experience has showed. Thank you
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 25, 2013 17:05:26 GMT -7
I guess i spoke too soon about the tapering...ugh. He has been a little shaky today when i hold him. He stops when i get his attention but then will start again. When outside he stopped for a while. But it was on-off today. Then i got home and he was excited so he was shaky. I gave him time then held him again and he was still then shaky at times. He is still on tramadol 3xday so that means if he is having pain then he is definitely having pain.. ugh i guess ill see one more time tonight if he's still shaky then i guess we will have to go back to 2x/day for pred. I was hoping this taper could work...
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Dec 25, 2013 17:52:32 GMT -7
I'm sorry that this taper may not be working. It is not unusual to have to extend the course of prednisone to get all of the swelling under control. You are doing a great job of monitoring Tank for signs of pain. Please keep us posted on his progress. Seasons Blessings to you both.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 26, 2013 19:35:15 GMT -7
The new laser vet said to keep him on pred 2x/day longer (like 2 more weeks) which would make 1 month of pred 2x/day. then we'd still have to taper. is that what you mean when you say it could take a month on pred (not including the tapering-and at the high dose)? I guess it feels like an eternity but it's only been almost 2 1/2 weeks. So technically they would be on pred for a month and half (including tapering?)
Oh and this vet added the muscle relaxer Robaxin 1/6 tablet (they didn't put mg) every 8 hours. Hope that helps he was only on tramadol, steroid and pepcid.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 27, 2013 6:02:44 GMT -7
Yes, the swelling around the spine can take up to a month to resolve so a dog would need to be on the anti-inflammatory dose for that long.
Prayers that Tank will be feeling much better soon. Keep us updated.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 30, 2013 0:10:53 GMT -7
Ok. Not sure if anyone saw my comment about tanks breath about a couple posts above... If anyone has experienced this? Thank you all for being so great and helpful
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 30, 2013 7:34:37 GMT -7
I'm not familiar with diabetes caused by steroids, Ashley, but I'm a fairly new moderator so possibly others would have more input. I do know that Prednisone shouldn't be given to dogs with diabetes. Did Tank have blood work done prior to starting the Prednisone?
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Dec 30, 2013 10:40:07 GMT -7
OR could the bad breathe be from the steroids or any of his medications? No he has had blood work that has been fine 2 months ago
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 30, 2013 13:19:24 GMT -7
Steroids can raise blood sugar, so for example if a dog is in the early stages of diabetes..not diagnosed, the steroid can cause a problem. So this is why it is a good idea to have those blood tests to know the health of organs. The benefit of steroids to get swelling down and protect the spinal cord generally outweigh some of the risks that are of a temporary nature. Monitored use by a vet with steroids is important. I don't know what is causing change in mouth odor, could be lots of things. If you are still concerned when you are back, you might discuss if a more current blood test is in order.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Jan 2, 2014 15:45:39 GMT -7
Ok. Also, tank has been on 2.5mg 2x's a day for prednisone. I saw that most dogs on here are on higher doses like 5mg 2x a day or 10mg 2x a day. He weighs now like 12.5 pounds (gained some weight). This monday he will have been on this dose for 4 weeks. I'm still worried that the pred isn't done doing its job and that he will be in pain. Is it because the low dose? Is this a low dose?
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 2, 2014 17:35:48 GMT -7
Yes, the anti-inflammatory dose for a 12.5 lb. dog would be 5 mg 2x/day. When is another taper supposed to start? Hopefully, even though he's been on a low dose, he's been on the Pred long enough to get the swelling down and this taper will go well.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Jan 2, 2014 18:29:49 GMT -7
Monday. Could i go up for the next 4 or so days on the 5mg 2x/day dose? and then taper? Or just see how it goes?
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 2, 2014 18:38:28 GMT -7
Prednisone is one medication that really needs to be administered under a vet's direction. You can speak to the vet about your concerns. But please don't try to change anything on your own without a vet's guidance. We give our recommendations based on experience but we're not vets.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Jan 5, 2014 23:12:25 GMT -7
Tank seems to be having stomach upset right now... He is whimpering and i hear his stomach gurgling a bit. He is laying on hi stomach but kicks every now and then... i don't know what to do. I gave the pepcid 30 mins before the tramadol muscle relaxer and steroid. was this too much to give at once? he had pumpkin today a couple times, he just pooped a little. I'm so worried he is whining and looks uncomfortable... help is anyone awake?
Just checked his poop is normal with no blood.
He is trying to go to bed. i hope he sleep tonight but if anyone sees this i'll be checking the post! Thank you
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 6, 2014 5:51:16 GMT -7
Ashley, how is Tank this morning? Some dogs need more than Pepcid AC to protect from GI tract difficulties. Please contact your vet ASAP today to advise them of this development and if the vet feels that this is a GI tract problem, ask that Sucralfate be added, along with the Pepcid AC. Sucralfate works in a different way than Pepcid to bandaid the damaged mucus lining and also promotes a healing environment. Sucralfate will require timing with other meds…so do your homework so you can discuss things with the vet: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.htmlIs he having problems with constipation? How much pumpkin have you been giving him each day? If he's having problems with constipation, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. Please update us when you have a chance to let us know how Tank is doing today. I hope he's feeling better.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Jan 6, 2014 19:52:04 GMT -7
Tank doesn't seem to be having stomach problems today, normal poops and no gurgling. I give him 1-2 tablespoons pumpkin/ day when on tramadol but if i can get him off the tramadol soon when taper begins tomorrow i won't have to worry about the stomach issues with constipation. Will keep an eye out for stomach discomfort. Today he is off the muscle relaxer completely and I have given him only 1 dose of tramadol at 1030AM and seems to be doing ok for now. May give him 1 more dose tonight. Tomorrow the taper of prednisone begins. I had talked to my vet and he thought tank was on the 5mg 2x's a day this whole time (confusion not sure why, the other vet had originally given tank the lower 2.5 2x'day dose) Anyway, tank has been on the pred 5mg 2x's day for 5 days after tonight. He was on 2.5mg 2x/day for this whole time. He will go down to 5mg 1x day starting tomorrow for 4-5 days. I am going to hold the tramadol as well. Hope this goes well. Keeping fingers crossed.
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Post by Sherry Layman on Jan 6, 2014 19:59:34 GMT -7
I'm glad Tank's stomach seems to be feeling better. The stomach irritation is related to the Prednisone so as long as he is on that medication, even at a tapering dose, there is a risk to his stomach so keep an eye on him and stay on the Pepcid until he's off the Prednisone completely.
It's great news that he's off his pain meds and still seems comfortable. I like to give a dose of pain med at bedtime that first day of stopping it just in case the dog would have pain in the middle of the night but not wake me. If you give a dose tonight and skip again tomorrow with no pain you could stop giving the Tramadol. Do watch for a return of pain during the taper of Prednisone though.
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Jan 10, 2014 11:26:20 GMT -7
I'm getting in touch with vet today to get sucralfate on board. Tank whined all night on/off which is new. He finally pooped at 7am and seems better after that. But for some reason i think his stomach may be causing discomfort. No blood in poop.
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Sabrina
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Post by Sabrina on Jan 10, 2014 13:03:28 GMT -7
Hi Ashley! I hope that the Sucralfate gives Tank that extra protection he needs so that he isn't in any GI discomfort. Keep us posted!
))Hugs!(( - Sabrina
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Lola & Hurley
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Post by Lola & Hurley on Jan 10, 2014 19:12:00 GMT -7
Hi Ashley! Tank is such a sweet looking little dog! I hope your taper goes well, please let us know how it goes! Wishing you both all the best, Lola
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Post by Ashley&Tank on Jan 12, 2014 8:27:29 GMT -7
Thank you for all checking in on Tank. Tank is currently on prednisone 5 mg once a day until Monday then he starts to continue Taper prednisone 5 mg every other day... he keeps me up at night sometimes whine to pee poo etc but shows no signs pain... I'm not sure why but I got the sucralfate so I'm going to give it to him today with his Dose. I give him Pepcid 30 minutes before and then the steroid when do I give the SUCRALFATE?? thank you. also, Thankfully I was able to get him off of the muscle relaxer and pain med about five days ago so still crossing my fingers... Much thanks!
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 12, 2014 8:45:08 GMT -7
Sucralfate will require timing with other meds…so do your homework here: www.marvistavet.com/html/sucralfate.html-- staggering sucralfate administration with the administration of these other medications by at least 2 hours. -- If possible, it should be given 30 minutes prior to the administration of an antacid. -- at least one hour before feeding or two hours after -- One dose of Sucralfate lasts approximately 6 hours after it is taken orally. You asked for the Sucralfate because you thought Tank's tummy was bothering him. If you no longer think that's the case, there would be no point in adding another medication. His tummy is OK now - no gurgling? Poops OK? Continue with the Pepcid every 12 hours even during the taper for as long as he is on the Pred. So glad there's been no pain during this taper! Prayers that the pain-free taper will continue. Keep us posted.
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